03-06-2003, 08:01 AM
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Executive Editor
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 29,160
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Toshiba May Bid Laptop Batteries Goodbye (Which is Good News for Pocket PCs Too!)
"Toshiba has developed a prototype direct methanol fuel cell that it says will end the need for re-chargeable batteries on portable PCs. The new fuel cell has an average output of 12 watts and a maximum output of 20 watts, and gives about 5 hours of operation with 50 milliliters of fuel, Toshiba said in a statement Wednesday. It runs on replaceable methanol cartridges, Toshiba said.
Methanol in a fuel cell delivers power most efficiently when it is mixed with water in a 3 percent to 6 percent concentration. To date, this has made the fuel tank too large for portable equipment, Toshiba said. However, the new cell includes a system whereby the methanol is diluted by water produced in the power generation process. This process allows the methanol be stored at a higher concentration, allowing the fuel tank to shrink to a tenth of the size previously needed, the company said."
We've been hearing about fuel cells for over two years now, but it looks like they're finally becoming a reality next year. Toshiba has created prototypes, and expects to be shipping fuel cell batteries in 2004. What I found particularly interesting was this quote from the article:
"The PC communicates with the fuel cell, giving information on its operating status, so that the fuel cell can balance power demand and supply. Sensors in the cell monitor methanol concentration and tell users when to change the cartridge, Toshiba said. The fuel cell can be directly connected to a PC or other portable device in place of a lithium-ion battery, Toshiba said. Two cartridge sizes have been developed: a 4.2 ounce, 100 milliliter (3.4 fluid ounces) cartridge offering 10 hours of operating time, and a 2.5 ounce, 50 milliliter (1.7 fluid ounces) version giving 5 hours of operation. The fuel cell itself weighs just about two pounds, Toshiba said."
I was under the impression that laptops and devices with removable batteries would need to be redesigned from scratch in order to take advantage of fuel cell technology, but the above leads me to believe that if an manufacturer wanted do, they could develop fuel cells in the same physical dimensions as current batteries. This is fantastic news - because even if the OEMs don't want to do the work, there are likely third-party battery makers who will step up and create fuel cell solutions. I'm typing this sitting on a couch with my laptop in my lap, and I'd give anything to have battery technology that didn't threaten to burn my legs with direct contact. :lol:
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03-06-2003, 08:11 AM
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03-06-2003, 08:28 AM
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Pupil
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 48
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so, would a fuel cell like this be cost effective? i mean to say would the cost of a replacement cell(s) (especially over time) have a huge impact on the total cost of ownership?
as hot as batteries might get, (well at least the one in my laptop) i don't necessarily find myself having to spend money to replace/replenish/recharge the power source.
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03-06-2003, 08:30 AM
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Ponderer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 93
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Hmm... Does this mean you have to change batteries every 5 or 10 hours? Doesn't make much sense over rechargeable batteries now does it? Or does it have a little 'gas' tank which you open and fill in methanol with? 
I was originally under the impression that for equal size a fuel cell would offer 10 times the battery life of regular batteries, in which case replacing them every so often (couple of weeks) wouldn't be as big of a deal.
Someone clear this up for me please!
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03-06-2003, 08:43 AM
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Thinker
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 484
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One big problem I see with this is that laptops are often used by professionals that travel. How can these liquid filled fuel cells be taken on airplanes? Did they think this through? :roll:
While fuel cell technology holds a lot of promise, I don't think that this is the right application for it.
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03-06-2003, 08:47 AM
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Thinker
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 433
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man the fuel cell is still heavy, hope they make it lighter, but sure heavy fuel cell is till better than no fule cell :P
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03-06-2003, 09:01 AM
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Thinker
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 383
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Uhh.. So that's the way fuel cells work then, eh? By replacing it from time to time. If this is the case, then normal replaceable batteries make more sense to me..
For another thing; I once saw an old programme on tv where they placed a little drop of pure methanol on a shaved spot on rats back and it soon dropped dead. I wouldn't feel comfortable holding such beverage on my lap, even if it was packed properly 8O
/jizmo
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03-06-2003, 11:12 AM
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Sage
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 734
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jizmo
For another thing; I once saw an old programme on tv where they placed a little drop of pure methanol on a shaved spot on rats back and it soon dropped dead. I wouldn't feel comfortable holding such beverage on my lap, even if it was packed properly 8O
/jizmo
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*cringes and curls up into a ball* Indeed, I hear you my man.
If it works how it was described here, it's just like normal batteries. Even worse, if you only get 10 hours out of a cartridge, that's less then what I get with normal AAA rechargeables! And I don't need to buy another set every two days or so.
And besides the whole aspect of liquids and PPC's.. let alone fuel that might be dangerous, explosive, corrosive, whatever.. Nah, I'll pass.
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03-06-2003, 11:38 AM
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Ponderer
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 88
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jizmo
For another thing; I once saw an old programme on tv where they placed a little drop of pure methanol on a shaved spot on rats back and it soon dropped dead. I wouldn't feel comfortable holding such beverage on my lap, even if it was packed properly 8O
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Yes, methanol is toxic, bot not nearly as much as you fear. It takes about 15 millilitres (ingested) to kill an adult (that's almost a cubic inch of liquid, for all metrically-challenged readers :lol: ). And the antidote is - believe it or not - ordinary alcohol (= ethanol). And human skin is quite impermeable to liquids, even alcohols (so you would literally have to drink the contents of the cartridge to get poisoned). I could elaborate if you wish, but there's probably no need for that. The bottomline is: have no fear. It's not so bad at all.
On the other hand, I see no major improvement for us in this news. So I'll have to carry a spare container or two filled with methanol solution to refill the battery? Not bloody likely I would. Unless they figure the way to power a PDA for 30 hours on an ink refill-size cartridge (like AAA size), I'm not sold.
Regards,
Rok
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03-06-2003, 12:43 PM
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Sage
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 633
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I'm sure they've 'thought it through' - but, a la 'Dell Disaster' recently reported ("Exploding" on someones lap?) I'd be far happier without Methanol in my Lap as well! :lol:
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