02-26-2003, 05:00 AM
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Executive Editor
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 29,160
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Memory Card Rant
"All recently-made PDAs ship with some horribly anemic amount of built-in RAM that's used for application storage (and in some really confusing cases, also for application heap at runtime). They then include some sort of memory expansion slot to address this shortcoming. However, you must obey the first commandment of PDA memory expansion: Thou shalt not install applications on the memory card. This has failed dismally on every modern PDA I've used, regardless of platform.
...On the PocketPC: Not so much a problem installing apps to the memory card, but some would just fail on launch. Again, you're never quite sure whether it will work or not. I'm told, although this wasn't a problem on my e740, that some PocketPC models which include both Compact Flash and SD expansion slots would name both of them "Storage Card". Thus, the app would store a bunch of references to, say, "Storage Card" the Compact Flash, and then go looking for its files on "Storage Card" the SD card and fail the next time you launched it."
The above rant is found on stevenf.com, an unlikely site for a well-considered rant on the issue of storage cards and PDAs. For the most part, I'd have to agree with his conclusion. I find that most of my apps work when installed on a storage card, but not all do, and it's hard to know which ones will work before you install them. And let's not forget the "internal memory card": the Flash ROM. That's even worse! Some of my favourite programs don't function when installed to Flash ROM, which is frustrating. I never owned a Newton, but the idea of having a program be a single file is quite appealing.
I wonder why it's still so difficult to have programs work consistently from storage cards? Part of the fault lies with the developers, but also with Microsoft - the storage card naming issue is something they should mandate in a consistent way.
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02-26-2003, 05:03 AM
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Pontificator
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,023
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Actually I'd hate having my programs a single file. I love my pocket pc because it is a pocket pc. I like that it works pretty much like a regular pc works. Hmm, I've never had a problem running anything out of memory cards or ROM... but I mostly install only games to memory cards and all apps to memory.
I think just about every app I've saw that shouldn't be put on a memory card warns of such in the manual and install setup. Obviously any that do not have such warnings, should.
By the way, why does the link go to pricegrabber on a printer? :?
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02-26-2003, 05:22 AM
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Thinker
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 383
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I've never quite understood this whole installer concept. On the good ol' Amiga, all you had to do was to extract the program to a directory and run in, no installing was necessary. Same thing applied when deleting a program, just remove the folder and there are no traces of the program on your system.
With all these (uncompatible) installer systems on pc, I often find myself with very crippled install / unstall in control panel. The list, which contains only about 40 programs takes ages to load for some reason and some of them have become uninstallable. One cannot just quickly try out one single program by extracting and running it, oh no, we have to a program that takes ages to install with several different confirmation boxes, manyally specified locations, program icons everywhere, on desktop, startup menu, tray, favorites..etc etc .. And on the top of that, the nice process of uninstalling one single program takes a lot more time than it would take just deleting a directory.
PPC even makes this worse for my windows, not only is my start menu too full as it is and I have to clean it up all the time, but now even the PPC programs add their own folder there. Why? I cannot run the PPC programs on my desktop computer. *sigh* :roll:
Ok, I feel a little better now .. 
/jizmo
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02-26-2003, 05:26 AM
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Thinker
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 426
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rirath
By the way, why does the link go to pricegrabber on a printer? :?
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I have to admit, the I950 Photo Printer (4800x1200 DPI, Color) is an awesome machine, but a bit off topic, er I mean off-rant :wink:
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02-26-2003, 05:28 AM
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Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 544
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Interestingly enough, things are the exact opposite on Smartphone devices. The typical user keeps a large SD card in their phone at all times and installs all apps to the card. The one good thing about MS's logo requirements is that we are guaranteed that any app distributed through Mobile2Market will properly install/run/uninstall from memory cards.
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This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
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02-26-2003, 05:29 AM
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Pontificator
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,023
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jizmo
I've never quite understood this whole installer concept. On the good ol' Amiga, all you had to do was to extract the program to a directory and run in, no installing was necessary. Same thing applied when deleting a program, just remove the folder and there are no traces of the program on your system.
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It all comes down to registery settings, setting up the files in the right locations, etc. Small time programs are just as simple as copy and pasting them over to the right folder. But for anything larger, it needs to be able to correctly set itself up in the users machine. Aside from that, many users still don't correctly know how to copy and paste files to the devices. Removing a program usually as simple as using the Remove Program tool and a few softresets at worse.
As for the desktop, most programs have their own uninstaller and most programs work fine with the control panel. Poorly programmed apps that don't have this probably have many other worse off problems. Computing (PPC and Desktop) wouldn't be as good as we know it today if it was as simple as deleting a directory and all traces of the app was wiped out.
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02-26-2003, 05:36 AM
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Thinker
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 384
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Backing Store (or the lack of)
Unlike a traditional computer where exectuables are loaded INTO memory and then run from THERE. PocketPC devices run applications DIRECTLY from storage.
That is, storage RAM doubles as primary RAM. The ramification of this is the device doesn't LOAD an application from a storage card into main memory, it runs it DIRECTLY from the storage card.
A nasty side effect of this is your executing your program from an unfixed source. A nasty side effect occurs when the following happens:
First, run your app from the expansion slot. Second, turn off the device and remove the memory card. Third, turn the device back on and try to use your app. Whoila, it's not their anymore !!!!
The ramifications of data missing isn't nearly as bad as executable code simply dissapearing. However, your stack and heap ARE executed in the device main memory. How do you clean that up when you suddenly yank the program out of the device and leave the stack and heap resident in memory.
Don't like that model. Well, try implementing your PocketPC with traditional RAM and a microdrive. Have fun waiting for it to boot every time you want to check some data :-)
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02-26-2003, 06:23 AM
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Theorist
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 275
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not to criticize or anything here but....
... I never did seen that problem ever since I own a pocket pc. certain pocket pc's tend to change the expansion storage name from time to time (storage card, storage card 1....etc) and that may explain alot why shortcuts from the memory located at the expansion slot fails to work. I could have sworn that toshiba's storage card naming convention uses "CF Card" and/or "SD Card" instead of the usual "Storage Card" like from those Casio ppc's... but I guess I'm wrong.
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02-26-2003, 06:27 AM
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Executive Editor
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 29,160
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rirath
By the way, why does the link go to pricegrabber on a printer? :?
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Uh, because I'm an idiot.  ops: Fixed!
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02-26-2003, 06:28 AM
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Mystic
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,911
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Re: Memory Card Rant
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jason Dunn
I never owned a Newton, but the idea of having a program be a single file is quite appealing.
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The Palms also work this way. I like have the programs in multiple files better. It makes it a true computer.
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Linear Mode
