01-30-2003, 03:00 PM
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Contributing Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,228
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Should Microsoft Directly Support Java and Brew in the Pocket PC Phone?
http://wirelessnewsfactor.com/perl/story/20618.html
Here is an interesting take on the market of converged devices. The author seems to be distraught over Microsoft not incorporating Brew or Java directly into the Pocket PC Phones. Well, if you want those in the device, put them in yourself. Why should Microsoft add all these virtual machines to run non-Win32 API applications? Microsoft has a long history of being proven right by going their own way. Of course, they have stumbled at times too. Your thoughts?
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01-30-2003, 03:27 PM
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Pupil
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 35
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Why not ?
Lets face it a native app will nearly always be faster! But with cpu speeds finally moving into a "real" processing power area java is an alternative. Frankly a PIM written in Java would let me swap my hardware platform as I see fit. I'd at least like to have the choice.
After all if .Net is everything that MS says it is, why not? What's MS afraid of?
markpmc
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01-30-2003, 03:44 PM
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Intellectual
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 156
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Although native Java and Brew support would be nice, my perception of those two technologies is that they are primarily used for games. There's nothing wrong with that in itself (how could I say otherwise?!), but it's not as if the Smartphones and Phone Edition devices of this world are missing out on any killer functionality.
Besides, from what I've seen, the games that run natively on CE-based devices tend to be superior to Java/Brew-based offerings in any case. 
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01-30-2003, 03:48 PM
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Ponderer
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 94
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This person seems to be totally clueless. This article (which is a reprint from http://www.infoworld.com/article/03/...ireless_1.html ) is unintentionally revealing when it asks:
What does Microsoft know that I don't?
Apparently, a whole lot of things about how to build a successful business. You don't grow a platform by providing multiple, competing apis for developers to use. That's just stupid.
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01-30-2003, 03:49 PM
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Thinker
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 360
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David vs. Goliath
Seems to me that I have read this article before. Actually I know I did, but anyway....
Yes Microsoft should definitely support both BREW and JAVA.
Here's why:...
In the phone game Microsoft is David. Now granted this David has a turbo powered catapult instead of a slingshot, but still. BREW and JAVA are already well placed, at least in the CDMA realm and they are pretty big Goliaths. I am sure that if I were a developer I would want my apps to run across the network. I do not know how many people realize this, but Sprint PCS is VERY restrictive of what runs across their network. If I were a developer I would love that the PPC PE is a device I could use, but in developing an app or game for a wireless service provider I would want it to run on as many different handsets as possible.
This is precisely the reason that the carriers adapted these standards. It is why BREW was invented in the very first place!
If MS wants to truly be popular in this market they have to get over their existence long propensity for proprietary only standards supported natively. I do not think a company can be successful in this market, (wireless) operating that way.
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01-30-2003, 04:07 PM
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Pupil
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 31
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java please
Please support java. I've tried writing stuff I want my pda to do in Java using a varitey of different programs, but none are really that simple. I think there are a ton of people out there that would like to write programs for themselves, and don't want to learn eVS. Plus since a java app is a java app, you can run any program you want without doing anything to it.
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01-30-2003, 04:19 PM
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Pupil
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 20
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The problem isn't the stubborness of not putting Java on the phone, it's because Java doesn't belong to Microsft, and they don't appear to want to have to be paying any suppliers out of their cut.
Same goes for MMS - standard owned by Nokia and requiring a licence fee, and bluetooth - standard owned by Ericsson - and again requiring a licence. If it's not 100% Microsoft, we can't be totaly responsible, so it won't go in.
At least this way yuo know everythign is tested against each other at a core level.
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01-30-2003, 04:54 PM
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Neophyte
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 9
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mike Wagstaff
Although native Java and Brew support would be nice, my perception of those two technologies is that they are primarily used for games.
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I can't believe people still have this perception of Java!
I am currently in the process of writing an enterprise scale, multi-platform supply chain application in Java (using an IDE written entirely in Java). It has interfaces for both web clients and for mobile devices. Running Java on a handheld client would be unbelievably useful. You could write true client/server request/response applications using existing enterprise tools and have lightweight, feature rich clients sitting on the handheld. I can't understand why Microsoft wouldn't put a JVM in PPC - the number of potential corporate uses would be overwhelming.
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01-30-2003, 04:59 PM
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Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,171
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by andrewsquire
I can't understand why Microsoft wouldn't put a JVM in PPC - the number of potential corporate uses would be overwhelming.
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Simple - they'd rather you use the .NET Compact Framework. Not that I don't agree -- for our research purposes I'd love to see an up-to-date JVM on our Pocket PC. By the same token, though, Sun could easily develop one for WinCE... it doesn't have to be Microsoft. Do we really want MS to bundle everything?
--janak
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01-30-2003, 05:05 PM
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Neophyte
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 9
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Janak Parekh
Quote:
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Originally Posted by andrewsquire
I can't understand why Microsoft wouldn't put a JVM in PPC - the number of potential corporate uses would be overwhelming.
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Simple - they'd rather you use the .NET Compact Framework. Not that I don't agree -- for our research purposes I'd love to see an up-to-date JVM on our Pocket PC. By the same token, though, Sun could easily develop one for WinCE... it doesn't have to be Microsoft. Do we really want MS to bundle everything?
--janak |
Sounds like we are in violent agreement. :lol:
However, other handheld OS manufacturers (especially in the business field) do include (or at least will supply) a JVM for their platform. It would position Microsoft PPC as a more viable platform for these applications if it would support Java as well as .NET. Not all corporations are ready to migrate to this new platform until it has been well proven.
But you're right, it wouldn't do Sun much harm do develop one either.
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