01-14-2003, 09:38 AM
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Pontificator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,177
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Manipulate Morally Magnificent? Part II
http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5397
Here's another moral dilemma that I'd like to throw into the debate. I posted the "The Orange SPV Smartphone Lock Down" article in December last year and it explained why and how the Orange SPV Smartphone is locked in the sense that users can't install "unsigned" applications to it. In the public Smartphone developer newsgroup discussions surrounding this issue seem to be endless. But go and check out the post "We have disabled driver signing requirement" that might turn things around and perhaps even lead to legal ramifications.
I must admit that I would love to see "open" Smartphones, but following these steps obviously risks breaking the phone. Question: for those daring out there I wonder if it is morally or legally ok to break the way the phone is supposed to work?
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01-14-2003, 10:18 AM
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Theorist
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 262
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Doesn't posting stuff like this
(overriding protection in the orange and
xda phone) violate the dmca act or
something ? No visiting the US for you !
:-)
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01-14-2003, 10:40 AM
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Pontificator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,177
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by denivan
Doesn't posting stuff like this
(overriding protection in the orange and
xda phone) violate the dmca act or
something ? No visiting the US for you !
:-)
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I don't think so, but don't want to risk anything. So, I edited the post and reference to the newsgroup instead... 
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01-14-2003, 10:43 AM
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Pontificator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,177
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by denivan
Doesn't posting stuff like this
(overriding protection in the orange and
xda phone) violate the dmca act or
something ? No visiting the US for you !
:-)
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The xda phone part: I am only discussing something that someone else made public!
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01-14-2003, 10:55 AM
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Theorist
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 262
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Well, I didn't really want you to edit your posts 
Just thought it was funny to point out that even every day news posts can be effected by the dmca. Reading about what the dmca does is one thing, but seeing it effect your favourite web site is another thing ;-)
Greetz,
Ivan
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01-14-2003, 11:44 AM
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Intellectual
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 140
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Re: Manipulate Morally Magnificent? Part II
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Andy Sjostrom
I must admit that I would love to see "open" Smartphones, but following these steps obviously risks breaking the phone. Question: for those daring out there I wonder if it is morally or legally ok to break the way the phone is supposed to work?
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In my opinion, unless Orange advertise the phone as being locked down and restricted from installing [some] third party software (something I haven't noticed in my local phone shops), the user has every right to try and find a way of unblocking it.
Where Orange have capitalised is the fact that all reviews of the phone have said how wonderful it is and how you can install software over the air and so people go and buy it only to find out later that they can't do all that they thought.
It's one thing to realise that a device you bought can't do something because it isn't capable, but it is infuriating when you realise that the reason your device can't do something is that someone somewhere has deemed it unecessary to allow you to do it.
As for the way these folks are unblocking their phones, why not? Microsoft has a long history of describing bugs and security holes as 'design decisions'...... therefore, these users are just using a feature of their phone to allow them to install extra software.
Power to their elbow and let's fight the control that corporations are looking to have over our lives!
It also shows the sad state our world is in when we can discuss whether something is morally or legally ok. These two should go hand in hand, if the law is to reflect what is good, but it doesn't and that is what makes the question valid.
Just my opinion, I hope nobody's upset.
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01-14-2003, 12:35 PM
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Sage
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 602
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I think Orange has made a product that was ment to be a Phone/PDA that you can adjust to your needs, but they want to controll and make money of your needs...
This is a little bit like DVD's. If I buy a DVD on a visit to USA, I can't play it at home in Norway... in my book, this is a violation of my rights. I've bought a product and should have the right to do what I want with it!
Solutions:
1. Buy the product and accept that your'e controlled!
2. Buy the product, crack your SmartPhone, DVD-player, etc... and probably break the law (not here in Norway though :-), we have the right to break codes as long as we only use it with bought products).
2. Don't buy the product...
__________________
Mobile: Motorola Milestone
Photo: Canon Eos 20D
PC: Several Mac's...
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01-14-2003, 01:02 PM
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Thinker
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 396
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I don't see any moral problem with breaking the lockdown.
Orange have, I presume, justified this as stopping you installing flaky applications and then calling them for support when the phone doesn't work. If you circumvent the code-signing I can see how they would consider your warranty to be invalid and refuse to help you sort out any problems. However, you haven't broken it or stolen anything from Orange.
From a personal point of view I don't think they should have done it at all. If you buy a PC you'd expect to be able to install your own software on it; not any different IMO.
Fred
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01-14-2003, 02:33 PM
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Ponderer
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 114
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I don't think this is the same as a DVD or CD. The copy protection laws are supposed to prevent me from giving away a movie or song, someone else's intellectual property. A phone is different-it's a consumer product. If I buy a toaster and decide I want to rewire it so it heats twice as hot, that's my business and my right (it's my toaster). If I want to hack in and allow my phone to have unsigned software run on it (accepting the fact that I probably void my warranty) that's my right. Jason had someone install 128MB of RAM into his XDA. Isn't that technically the same thing? He "broke" their design in order to get more utility out of it. But he can because it's his once he purchases it. Just the same as I could drop my XDA out a window if I wanted to, because I own it. If Orange truly wants to pursue legal action against anyone opening up their product then I hope they can also accept the fact that they will shortly go out of business, as no one will support a company that sues its customer. Well, at least I hope they won't.
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01-14-2003, 02:49 PM
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Theorist
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 262
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Actually , what I was trying to say was : If I understand the article on the dmca act correctly, then rewiring your toaster is not your right, if that means you circumvent a built in protection. So orange has built in protection for only running signed applications and going around this protection (even with a built in bug) seems like it's violating the dmca act if I read it correctly. Even posting news about it seems violating the act and that's what worries me the most. Vetteguy, you can honestly feel that it's your property and your right to do so (I think the same way), but I feel that the dmca act prohibits you of doing so. Just like sony said it wasn't that guy's right to hack his own Aibo to learn it a few more tricks...
Greetz,
Ivan
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