01-03-2003, 04:33 AM
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Executive Editor
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 29,160
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The Browser Wars are But a Skirmish
"Usage of the latest Mozilla browser doubled and Netscape 7 grew by 67 percent but the latest browser study shows that Internet Explorer 6 is king. The latest Mozilla and Netscape Web browsers are cropping up on more computers worldwide, but they still only represent a few trees in a forest of Microsoft's Internet Explorer browsers. According to new research from Amsterdam-based OneStat.com, Mozilla 1.0 global usage has grown from 0.4 percent in June to 0.8 percent this month, nearly four months after its release. Netscape 7.0 global usage has risen from 0.3 percent to 0.5 percent in the same period.
In comparison, global usage for Microsoft's latest browser, IE 6, has grown from 46.4 percent to 52.3 percent from June to September, the study found. In total, Microsoft's collection of IE browsers comprise 94.9 percent of the market; the browsers of AOL Time Warner-owned Netscape and Mozilla represent 3 percent of the market; and Opera comprises 0.9 percent."
We catch some flak on this Web site for being so IE-centric, so I wanted to post this article in my defence. :wink: We'll always try to be as cross-browser friendly as possible, but ultimately if I have to make a choice between using our resources for adding new features or optimizing for other browsers, new features are going to win. While we're on the subject though, other than our incompatibility with Netscape 4.x, are there any browser issues we should be made aware of? Yes, yes, I know the forums don't yet work with Pocket Internet Explorer - next comment.
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01-03-2003, 04:37 AM
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Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,171
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Jason, while you have good points, a couple of comments:
- The percentage amongst the technology elite using Mozilla is much higher;
- Of course you can't optimize the site for every platform, but at least make it useable by Mozilla/Netscape 7, which it works perfectly with now and with which I use it every day;
- Ironically, I would not worry too much about compatibility with Netscape 4.7x. It's too difficult nowadays, and that's an outdated, unsupported browser. I'd do a browser check and if that matches the User-Agent, urge the end-user to upgrade. But that's me. 
--janak
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01-03-2003, 04:41 AM
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5000+ Posts? I Should OWN This Site!
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,133
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You could always tell them that their browser isn't supported, and direct them to the mobile site which I would THINK would use simple enough tags for old browsers, wouldn't it? I'm just guessing here, as I'm too lazy to click "Mobile" and check the code myself. 
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01-03-2003, 04:42 AM
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Philosopher
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 495
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the IT admins at a hospital i work for went with netscape as their system browser and let me just tell you how much it SUCKS!
people whine about how microsoft is a monopoly that stiffles competition ... blah blah blah, but the reality is microsoft steals other peoples software and then out performs them. IE is an excellent example and MediaPlayer is another. I just installed beta 9 and its excellent!
(Sorry QuickTime and RealNewtorks -- perhaps you should call your legal department and get in line...)
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01-03-2003, 04:51 AM
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Swami
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,303
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Re: The Browser Wars are But a Skirmish
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jason Dunn
In total, Microsoft's collection of IE browsers comprise 94.9 percent of the market; the browsers of AOL Time Warner-owned Netscape and Mozilla represent 3 percent of the market; and Opera comprises 0.9 percent.
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8O Now THAT's market share! 8O
But - Netscape was so bad that MS completely deserved it. I had to use NS while working at HP and it was Dreadfull. I work by onpeing many browser windows at once and flicking between them. NS would ALWAYS crash at some point and I would have to start opening up 20 hard-to-locate web pages again- and again - and again. :evil:
MS Internet Exploder was just SOOOOOooooooo much better back then -and it has gotten better.  Ok - still room for improvement - but isn't there always.
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01-03-2003, 05:12 AM
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Intellectual
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 143
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This isn't an "issue" but I realized that the link to the threads from the main site now links to the post number, not the thread number. It may be this way for other parts of the site as well. However, when I reply to the thread, the thread number shows, instead of the post number. :?
EDIT: Oh, and in the main Forum page, it says there are ~60,000 topics. Hardly. More like 6500. I think you must have modified the code too many times.
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01-03-2003, 05:13 AM
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Mystic
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,768
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explorer
... IE and the shell ....
As much as people want to strip out the browser from the shell, that was one of the most brilliant and turns out, most usefull integrations in the OS. IE and the shell have become so integrated that it really is a dream to flow between browsing the local machine, ftp, and http seamlessly. It would be a mistake to force MS to ever break them apart. I consider them one and the same now.
__________________
Jonathan (JonnoB)
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." -Edmund Burke
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01-03-2003, 05:26 AM
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Thinker
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 332
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I agree with Janak, dump NS 4.x.
Actually I have to point out that, having done a fair bit of cross browser work, that it is fairly easy to support scripting (dhtml) across IE/Mozilla/NS7.x there are fairly simple changes which handle most of the differences.
The old pixel size problems are the worst though, darn irritating and annoying to fix too.
I'm on a Mac, OSX 10.2.3, using Chimera (Small very fast geko based browser). The site seems to work well. I haven't noticed any problems with it.
On the subject of MS and Netscape, I have to say at about v.3 IE was about equal to NS IMO. After 3 IE was well ahead. The problem is though that it is Microsoft that does not adhere to standards and therefore are the ones causing issues with browser compatibility (in recent browsers that is). I'm all for innovation on Microsofts part but when a workable alternative becomes part of the standard they should adopt it and depricate their non-standard alternative.
Daniel
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01-03-2003, 05:32 AM
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Pupil
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 47
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Janak Parekh
Jason, while you have good points, a couple of comments:
- The percentage amongst the technology elite using Mozilla is much higher;
- Of course you can't optimize the site for every platform, but at least make it useable by Mozilla/Netscape 7, which it works perfectly with now and with which I use it every day;
- Ironically, I would not worry too much about compatibility with Netscape 4.7x. It's too difficult nowadays, and that's an outdated, unsupported browser. I'd do a browser check and if that matches the User-Agent, urge the end-user to upgrade. But that's me.
--janak |
Ditto
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01-03-2003, 05:40 AM
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Pupil
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 47
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Cortex
... but the reality is microsoft steals other peoples software and then out performs them...
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Outperforms..hum..in what sense. Put in as many security vulnerabilities as you can fit? Make the browser more bloat? Integrate it as much as you can with an OS so that you can make both unstable?
Really I don't see the improvements. IE6 is lagging in term of speed, security and functionalities.
People stay with IE until they get some serious problem, then they think and try to find alternatives. I guess not enough people had their HD remotely erased to realized how flawed that app is :roll:
Yeah I sound anti-MS again, but IE is that bad...
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