12-10-2002, 10:37 AM
|
|
Pontificator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,177
|
|
Modern Day "Slavery"?
The most apparent trend in the mobile devices market is that we get more for less. It is not surprising since the IT industry has lived and grown by that trend since the beginning and will most likely continue to do so. Product price is dependent on many factors including software licenses, hardware components and wages. I am not an economist, but I understand that a company operating in a market where price is a critical success factor has to make sure that the entire business process is cost efficient.
Do you know where your Pocket PC was built? It was most likely built in Taiwan, Malaysia or perhaps China. The reason why it was built in one of these countries is "wages". I recently saw a documentary about the company Flextronics on TV. Flextronics is one of the largest device manufacturers in the world and has production plants in many low-wage countries. The documentary moved me and I have to ask myself: Do I play a part in modern day slavery?
One of the plants Flextronics operates in China has more than 11,000 workers. They are all, with few exceptions, young women between 17 and 20 years old. The women come from small villages, often far away from the production plants. "The younger they are, the faster they work", said a native Flextronics manager and his colleague from the US added "They are very good at repeatability". The President of Flextronics' analysis on moving more production to China included the statement: "The people are hungry, so they work well". The young women live at the plant, sharing sleeping quarters with seven others. A young worker exclaimed: "It is good here. We have both hot and cold water."
However, despite modern day slavery-like working conditions, all young women appearing in the documentary seemed to be happy to work for Flextronics. On this matter, the documentary seemed to say that working for Flextronics is, to them, a ticket away from village life, an opportunity to help support their families and a way to more modern, urban life. An average monthly salary was said to be about $500 and that is much more than the yearly $200-$300 that her family in the village can make. The facilities were clean and very well organized. But all those aspects aside, I have no doubt that Flextronics has the better deal. The attitude shown by top executives towards these young women, the heroes of the mobile device market, scares me.
Since mobile devices have been around for more than three years, the analytical observer has to ask what happens to workers as they pass 20 years of age. Apparently, they work under a three year contract which, in my opinion, effectively keeps wages down and makes union activities impossible.
The financial wealth these production plants generates undoubtedly helps build a better society and welfare in these countries, but how much can the workers be exploited before it in fact becomes modern day slavery? I buy mobile devices and inspire others to do the same. What responsibility do companies like Microsoft and HP have? What is my responsibility?
|
| |
|
|
|
12-10-2002, 11:27 AM
|
|
Intellectual
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 168
|
|
It would be interesting to see the plants where today's PDAs are made. Interestingly, my NR-70 was made in JAPAN! I did a double-take when I saw the label. Most electronics are made in China, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, and Taiwan. We here in the US also see alot of Mexican made electronics (NAFTA).
|
| |
|
|
|
12-10-2002, 11:39 AM
|
|
Pupil
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 36
|
|
Sorry, but this hardly news. While I appreciate you writing this article...it is nothing new.
Nike
Kathie Lee Gifford Clothing
Flextronics
Any many, many others.
It's all about one thing...money. Or more to the point, profit, and lots of it.
Why else can someone work their butt off in a factory for an entire YEAR and yet the CEO of the company that person works for makes more in one HOUR?
I live in one of the most affluent areas in the world...and I see the huge gap between the 'haves' and the 'have nots' all the time. And it disgust me. Why does the migrant worker need to hold down 3 jobs just to try to cover rent, in a crappy apartment, to put food on his family's plate, no going out for dinner, and clothes on their back, the good stuff from Goodwill and the Salvation Army, or maybe he's been saving for Wal-Mart or Pic N Save? And his kids go to the crappy schools, and get the crappy grades because he and his wife who is working 18 hours a day can't be there with their children like the well to do families.
Yet, just down the block, there is the family, like many others that just bought their 2nd BMW, but they had to save up, afterall, their home cost 1.5mil to buy and another 300k to redo it. But at least not all is lost, Nordies is having a sale this week and they were able to get reservations at the $50 an entree restaurant. And be sure to save the money for their kids college funds...no community college for them...state college at a minimum.
Seeing a trend here? Nothing new Andy, it's all as the song goes...
"...whatever may come, the world keeps revolving, they say the next big thing is here, that the revolution's near, but to me it seems quite clear, that it's all just a little bit of history repeating."
Roman caste system
French aristocracy
Middle class America (you know, the one that is shrinking until there will be just two classes...low and high)
I am no activist, I have owned my fair share of luxury cars, I have eaten in fine restaurants,a nd lived in nice places...and I have seen the disparity between the people in my area of the US. And it's unsettling. And I really have no idea what more I can do, and that makes it tougher. How much do I need? What is enough? How much should I give back? Do I deserve all that I have? Do they deserve all that they don't have? Do they deserve to work so muc for so little?
What about those people working for companies like flextronics. Why are they doing work for American companies? They are cheap, they are plentiful and they are desperate...it certainly beats working in the fields somewhere. Afterall, I am sure they have a nice place to work over in Malaysia...air conditioning, a steady pay check...isn't that enough? Well, that is how the American companies see it.
Profit, profit, profit. American unemployment rate is up...jobs go overseas...need the profit...stockholders want their percentage...profit...CEOs, VP's, Mangers, need that bonus...outsource American jobs to 3rd world areas, we can pay them less, increase our margins, bump up our stock options and all drive nice cars, and wear nice clothes.
So Andy, to answer your question, yes, yes you do play a part in slavery...but will it keep you, me or anyone else for that matter from contributing further? No. We all still will buy as we have.
Global change requires global interest...there is none, thus, there will be no change. Makes you wonder...how far have we really come as a society?
|
| |
|
|
|
12-10-2002, 11:59 AM
|
|
Ponderer
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 85
|
|
Standard of living and rates of exchange
I think there are 3 comments I'd like to make. The first is that exploitation of workers has more to do with the way they are handled at the factory than where they live. Yes they are doing repetative work, but I would expect in any factory there are people doing repetative work. The company sounds like they provide accomodation for the employees in what seems to be a "hostel." It's probably cheaper than getting a place for themselves. I'm sure that most of them choose to live there because it is relatively comfortable. If our rural communities here are anything to go by, entire families, possibly 3 sometimes 4 generations live in close quarters. The huts they live in often only have one or two rooms without any running water. Under the assumption that the young girls come from similar rural environments, "bunking" with others may not be such a big deal.
The second comment has to do with what they are paid. I earn the equivalent of $1 300 and thought I was really well off until a little while ago. My standard of living is really high here because I can do so much more with that than I could in the USA, or the UK. For example, a big mac costs the equivalent of $1 here, I expect it's much more expensive in other parts of the world. My point is only that a flat calculation of exchange rates doesn't mean people are being paid badly.
My third comment is that by no means am I insensitive to the possibility of "slave" labour. There are people working in appalling conditions for what, even in their terms, is far too little money, leaving them with no choice but to live in some kind of squalour. I think back to the well documented incident involving nike and young children working in hazardous environments with hazardous material. What I am trying to say is that by your standards, this may sound like slavery, but slavery is such a strong word, you have to think carefully about using it. Flexitron can, as others have tried to, have much less concern for their employees wellbeing.
I'll truncate my post here without commenting on unionisation and the possible futures for a 21 year old girl having come to the end of her contract as a labourer in a factory.
|
| |
|
|
|
12-10-2002, 12:08 PM
|
|
Pontificator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,177
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by exsilio
nothing new.
|
I know. Which makes me sad. Just because it isn't "new" does not mean we should not discuss it, in my opinion.
|
| |
|
|
|
12-10-2002, 12:18 PM
|
|
Pupil
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 32
|
|
Let's clear up a thing here, and also review a little about industrialization as it has been carried out over the last century-plus.
1) Flextronics is not an American company; it is a Singaporean company.
2) Most every industrialized country in the world has gone through a period in which large numbers of people work in various types of factories...and in supposedly 'terrible' 'oppressing' 'slavery-like' conditions. Remember the book (I forget the author) about the atrocities of the meat-packing industry in America? Have you ever been inside a steel mill, even one in the US, even today...more than 100 degrees (F) all day with soot all over your body...?
3) Factory conditions:
a)As an engineering manager working for an American company who makes a lot of visits to China to build products at factories like Flextronics, I can assure you that the working conditions in these tech-product factories are far better than the (mostly American) media has lead you to believe. Food and housing are provided, as well as an air-conditioned working environment with regularly scheduled break times. In addition, the workers invariably have a chair. In constrast, as recently as 30 years ago, American factory workers stood all day without break times---my mother, (who just took a vacation to China and toured a couple of the factories I work in) worked at P&G during college in the late 60's....and stood all day without breaks boxing up bottles of mouthwash. She thought the workers in the computer factories she visited had much better working conditions than she herself had.
b) These workers (yes, they are mostly 17-25 year old girls) often come from the poor inner provinces. They come by choice to earn money...they are not forced into slavery, so please do not apply that word. And they do earn money, up to ten times as much as if they stayed in their home towns/provinces.
c) Unions are illegal in China....so the companies are not oppressing workers by putting them under a one-year (rarely longer) contract.
d) Treatment of workers is indeed a key part of the whole situation. In general, the workers building PDAs, Computers, mobile phones, etc are not completely un-skilled workers. Further, the products they build are often complex, and the product lines (and corresponding assembly processes) change frequently. Consequently, it is in the companies' best interest to keep the workers well-trained, interested, and happy. The companies I work with all have regular worker training sessions, performance review (weekly and monthly) and take pride in keeping their worker turnover rates low. To illustrate: one factory owner moved his high-tech factory from Guangdong province to the Shanghai area. More than half his workers chose to move with the factory because they appreciated the work enviroment and they way they were treated; those who didn't move usually had roots or other ties to the Guangdong area.
e) Note that there are certain industries (namely toys, shoes, and certain textiles) which have less-desireable working conditions than tech factories. However, in all cases, the people are choosing to work in these factories. China is very much a capitalist and meritocratic society as regards blue-collar labor.
|
| |
|
|
|
12-10-2002, 12:18 PM
|
|
Pontificator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,177
|
|
Cherring, thanks for your reply.
I don't have the answers to all this. I realize that working for Flextronics is most likely a net positive thing for these young women. What worries me, though, is that they as a group is so weak compared to the company. In a market where there are so many more people than jobs, I believe profit making is a higher priority than working conditions in all decisions.
I don't believe we'll solve anything in this discussion. In fact, I expect most to disagree with me even on the point that it is in fact something to discuss.
Slavery is a strong word. Perhaps, too strong in this context. By using it I hope to get more people to at least think about it once and make up their minds about it. I didn't say this is slavery. I ask the question. Our Pocket PCs do not grow on trees. Someone made them. I don't want them if the answer is "yes".
|
| |
|
|
|
12-10-2002, 12:25 PM
|
|
Pupil
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 32
|
|
You don't choose Coke over Pepsi (or vice versa) just because the media tells you one tastes better, right? No, I suspect you go to the store take a look, have a taste, and come to your own conclusions.
Same goes for making judgements on someone else's life (working conditions, pay, whatever).
Find out first-hand, and then draw your own conclusions. But don't go to China looking for socialism and equal-opportunity handouts for all....it's a free market, both for goods and for labor.
|
| |
|
|
|
12-10-2002, 12:58 PM
|
|
Thinker
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 414
|
|
This is a topic that I should probably be too old, jaded, conservative, and tired to care about.
But, I still find myself recently challenged by a friend at work who documented some of the abuses of workers in Chinese WalMart manufacturing partner factories. So I look to WalMart last when I go shopping. I have not boycotted them altogether, but I am prioritizing them down due to their role in the exploitation.
Yet, I do think that shops like those described by Scoopster offer a chance for the prosperity we enjoy in the US to spread worldwide. Less developed nations have to start somewhere. The post from South Africa from someone who happily makes a tiny fraction of what I do as a US postal letter carrier is also encouraging.
Regarding PDAs, I would pay a 10% or even $25% premium to a company that produced their goods in a union shop, or any shop that has good employee policies.
|
| |
|
|
|
12-10-2002, 01:18 PM
|
|
Ponderer
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 85
|
|
I agree that when I have reason to believe a brand or company is getting product to me by cutting corners like safety equipment or acceptable working conditions, I also refuse to buy said product. I try to make sure that is the case, though.
With regards to the paying a premium for a union shop product etc, I would question whether manufacturers would list "produced in a union shop" or "we have good employee policies" as a feature or a criteria for buying their product. I think one has to make a decision for oneself based on the information they have and what they are comfortable with.
P.S. What does a big mac go for these days?
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Linear Mode
