08-20-2002, 01:17 AM
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Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,060
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It's Like Deja Vu All Over Again
http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,54612,00.html
In a gaffe that comes frighteningly close to one purpetrated by Hewlett-Packard a couple of years ago, Palm is in the position of trying to defend its claims about the color resolution of their m130 device. Following precisely in HP's footsteps, Palm advertising has been giving the impression that the m130 can display 16-bit graphics, or images with up to 64k colors. The truth is that the device's processor SUPPORTS 16-bit graphics, but the screen is actually a 12-bit screen capable of only 4,096 colors.
"[Palm Spokeswoman Marlene] Somsak said it was an 'honest mistake.' The handheld was supposed to include support for 65,536 colors and 'in the implementation of various components and technology -- together reduced the number of colors in our expectations.'"
This is almost EXACTLY the story that unfolded when HP made the same mistake. The screen was *supposed* to be 16-bit, but somewhere between planning and implementation the specs got derailed. This could be a PR nightmare for Palm. I remember all the petitions and threats of class action suits against HP that were circulated two years ago; it was not until the 56X models were launched that HP was finally able to live down its 12-bit blunder.
Don't the people at Palm read the newspaper?
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08-20-2002, 01:31 AM
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Thinker
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 355
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Re: It's Like Deja Vu All Over Again
this is the second time something like this has happened...another company gets dinged, and then years later the same thing happens to palm. people seem to be more forgiving with palm than others though.
"Palm, announced that it had reached a settlement with the US Federal Trade Commission, which had accused the company of hyping its products with misleading advertising claims. In ads that ran in newspapers and magazines Palm stated that its PDA come with built-in wireless access to the Internet, e-mail and business programs":
http://www.ciol.com/content/news/repts/102030713.asp
http://www.firstcoastnews.com/onyou...-03-07/palm.asp
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/020306/1/2kfrl.html
didn't hp offer to give everyone their money back? i think they did, i have a link below. if that's the case palm may want to consider that as well:
http://www.zdnet.com/supercenter/sto...195202,00.html
i think i have vu deja'...i've never been anywhere or done anything.
cheers,
pt
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08-20-2002, 01:34 AM
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Ponderer
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 52
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Well, the difference is, HP screwed up royally: 12bit = only 4096 colors (and they advertised 16bit = 65536 colors) In Palm's case, the difference is almost negligible and definitely not visible with a naked eye, when watching photos and such.
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08-20-2002, 01:37 AM
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Pupil
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 20
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Re: It's Like Deja Vu All Over Again
Quote:
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Originally Posted by pt
this is the second time something like this has happened...another company gets dinged, and then years later the same thing happens to palm. people seem to be more forgiving with palm than others though....
pt
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Perhaps that's because they don't expect much from them to begin with...
(Sorry, couldn't help it :twisted: )
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08-20-2002, 01:44 AM
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Intellectual
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 255
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by marconelly
Well, the difference is, HP screwed up royally: 12bit = only 4096 colors (and they advertised 16bit = 65536 colors) In Palm's case, the difference is almost negligible and definitely not visible with a naked eye, when watching photos and such.
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While it is still being discussed, it appears that Palm's claim about the 58,000+ colors might be bogus. It sounds as if they are talking about the use of dithering to give the appearance of more colors. If they are in fact using dithering to arrive at that number, then their claim is not factually correct. They have yet to say exactly what the color depth is. If it is 12 bits, then it can only display 4,096 colors. Dithering would allow you to convey the impression that it displays more colors by changing the color of adjacent pixels.
If it is indeed 12 bit color, then Palm should offer the same full refund that HP did.
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08-20-2002, 01:45 AM
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Pupil
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 24
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Re: It's Like Deja Vu All Over Again
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Originally Posted by PBennett
Perhaps that's because they don't expect much from them to begin with...
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It's true, they don't. Ironically, that lack of expectation is both the most FRUSTRATING thing about Palm... and their saving grace in the marketplace.
Plus, it's about the only thing left of the fabled 'zen of palm'....kinda sad really.
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08-20-2002, 02:00 AM
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Ponderer
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 111
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I'm really curious how a company (two companies now) can promote a product so inaccurately - can you really not know what type of screen your device is using? Or is there such a disconnect between marketing and engineering that the people who actually know what the products are made of don't communicate with the people who write the PR and ad copy?
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08-20-2002, 02:00 AM
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Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,060
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jdhill
While it is still being discussed, it appears that Palm's claim about the 58,000+ colors might be bogus. It sounds as if they are talking about the use of dithering to give the appearance of more colors...
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I wonder the same thing. Maybe some graphics experts can help here, but it seems to me that *if* 12-bit is the reality, then the 58k number is really just a bit of a numbers game.
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08-20-2002, 02:39 AM
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Pupil
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 34
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From discussions at PalmInfoCenter, and from what I've been able to figure out, the 58k is referring to the dithering process. Otherwise, the use of the phrase "color combinations" doesn't make much sense. In any case, it is a 12-bit screen, according to several comparisons that have been made by graphics programmers for the device.
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08-20-2002, 02:59 AM
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Thinker
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 355
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your ad here
here are some pictures:
http://www.pocketloft.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=60
that looks like 4,096 colors (12 bit color to me)...
also, here's the page from palm support they put up...
>>
Information on the Palm� m130 Handheld Color Capability
Palm is updating its characterization of the m130 handheld�s color capability.
The Palm(TM) m130 handheld was introduced in March 2002 and immediately earned an outstanding reception from customers and reviewers for its brilliant color and compelling price. Palm said it could support more than 65,000 colors.
Palm is updating its statements of color capability, because it has since learned that the combination of color technologies it employed deliver about 58,621 color combinations, an approximate 11 percent difference.
With support for 58,621 color combinations, we believe the Palm m130 offers the widest range of color combinations among color STN (super-twisted nematic) products made by brand-name companies.
The color technologies Palm employed in the m130 handheld to deliver text and images include frame-rate control and dithering techniques. (Frame-rate control turns pixels off or on to deliver a specific shade of color. Dithering uses a group of adjacent pixels to convey a composite color.)
Palm apologizes to customers for the communication error regarding the range of color capabilities of the m130. We are in the process of informing our customers, and changing our marketing material to reflect this new information.
>>
they're going to need to offer refunds or upgrades, not sure why they haven't said that yet. maybe testing the waters.
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