07-25-2002, 10:43 PM
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Pontificator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,177
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At the other end of free
The last couple of weeks I have been thinking about the fee vs free issue. I know this issue has been discussed and debated over and over again here, but my thoughts does not involve the state Pocket PC Thoughts and whether or not this site's content should be 100% free. I leave that to Jason to ponder on. No, I have three other paths to this post.
First, take a look at the following paragraph that I, very recently, ran across in a writing contract for a publication:
"4. Writer, for authoring said Work, shall receive no monetary compensation."
This particular printed publication is not non-profit. The owners run the publication to make money and run their business, and still won't pay their writers. Being a professional writer myself, I turned down the "offer". I wonder why someone who tries to make a living writing would ever accept such a contract. I wonder if, perhaps, the publication does not want professional writers working for them. Is that then a wise foundation to build a professional publication upon? Strange.
Second, I wonder if we are not living a self-fulfilled prophecy. In the "Mobile Internet" debate (no, I won't start another one now!) it is often argued that it is not possible to charge end users for content / services / products over the Internet, where as a carrier can solve that problem using a cell phone and the phone bill. In these days when almost everyone owns a credit card and gets electronic or paper bills from power companies, insurance companies, banks etc every month, why is it so hard to charge the customer? It is surprising that what we knew how to do "before" the Internet suddenly became unknown to us. The Internet has not short-circuited market economy. If you have what there is a real demand for, then there will be a price point right for what you have. What is missing to get going? (Don't say micro payments!)
Third, where has the "free agent" movement gone? Remember the happy days when there was so much capital available with absolutely no ideas, and so many ideas with absolutetly no capital? People were talking like crazy about "free agents". Be your own. Meet your buyer and seller on the Internet. And all that. I searched around a little bit and found a couple of sites still alive: FreeAgent.com and Elance. Do you know more such, almost historic, sites?
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07-25-2002, 10:53 PM
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Philosopher
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 544
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I've actually acquired several freelance Pocket PC software development contracts via http://www.rentacoder.com.
__________________
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
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07-25-2002, 11:05 PM
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Thinker
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 481
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Re: At the other end of free
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Originally Posted by Andy Sjostrom
First, take a look at the following paragraph that I, very recently, ran across in a writing contract for a publication:
"4. Writer, for authoring said Work, shall receive no monetary compensation."
This particular printed publication is not non-profit. The owners run the publication to make money and run their business, and still won't pay their writers. Being a professional writer myself, I turned down the "offer". I wonder why someone who tries to make a living writing would ever accept such a contract. I wonder if, perhaps, the publication does not want professional writers working for them. Is that then a wise foundation to build a professional publication upon? Strange.
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By "professional writer", I suppose you mean someone who seeks to make their money primarily by selling their writing. I would not say that content written by people who primarily earn their money by another means is unworthy of being published. They might be very able to write good content and that source of money may be secondary to them. If they know their subject area, it would be worthy content.
It comes down to what the market will bear. As long as there are willing writers who earn a living another way, and the writer values some non-monetary benefit, a publisher would not need to pay. If writers see no other value than the money, the publisher will need to begin paying. I do not think it strange.
To maybe push the point too far, I am contributing this material for free. I obviously see some value other than monetary to contribute my writing to "Thoughts", which in turn seeks to make a (perhaps meager) profit from the site.
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07-25-2002, 11:44 PM
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Ponderer
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 80
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Re: At the other end of free
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Originally Posted by Andy Sjostrom
What is missing to get going? (Don't say micro payments!)
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I think your answer IS micropayments. I think the prices for web content have to be a LOT lower than what the few pay sites I've seen have been asking. I'm not about to pay you $5 per month or even $20 per year to access PocketPCThoughts. If I had to do that for every site I visit fairly regularly, it would cost me thousands per year- it's not worth nearly that.
BUT, I'd be willing to pay you a cent or two each time I visit. That would pay you maybe $2 to $5 dollars per year. Not much, but multiply it by 10,000 people or more, and you could make a living off a reasonably popular web site.
The problem is, you can't charge me a penny or two- it costs a nickel or a dime just to pay for a SINGLE TRANSACTION on a credit card- plus a percentage of the charge. Those guys aren't interested in even the $2-$5 transaction you'd be able to charge me after a YEAR. But if there was a universal micropayment system, where my web browsing ended up costing me an extra $10-$15 per month added on to my ISP bill, and your 20,000 cents per day became say, $5900 (of the $6000 dollars) in your checking account at the end of the month, we'd both be pretty happy.
Bottom line- we NEED a micropayment system. Once we have one, the Internet will take off, and people will be willing to pay for content- as long as it's cheap.
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07-25-2002, 11:45 PM
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Theorist
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 302
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I read your post kinda fast so maybe I missed you mentioning this but one reason why someone would contribute as a writer to a publication is to increase exposure for one's company or website. So while you may not be receiving direct compensation, you would possibly receive traffic and/or consulting business, etc. from someone who reads the article and therefore the publication might be thinking this benefit is enough compensation. I've been a speaker at several conventions and tradeshows and a contributoring author on a few websites over the years and haven't ever been compensated (I do have expenses covered when a speaking engagement isn't local). I've done these things because people want to learn something from me and if the information is good and my delivery is professional I end up being considered an expert. This has led to consulting work and profitable business alliances.
So I guess overall it depends on what position you're in. If you're already well exposed and making good money, you certainly could choose to pick only speaking engagements or article projects under paid contract. If you could use some more work or traffic or whatever, it might be a good idea to use an opportunity that doesn't have direct compensation to increase your exposure.
One final thought regarding the compensation issue, I'm not a professional writer or speaker by any means so I have never depended on writing or speaking to make a living. If you are a professional writer or speaker, I can see how you would feel otherwise. Writing and speaking are tools for me.
Before I close, I'd like to say that I would actually be willing to pay something for some of the services I use on the Internet which are currently free. For any free site looking to convert to a pay site, I'd suggest they consider "lite" and "members only" versions, the latter with more features for paying members. This way you don't lose the majority of members who are shocked at having to pay something and you make a few bucks for those who are willing and able to pay and find your information useful. I'd also suggest trying to keep the cost low. I visit maybe 10 sites regularly but if all of them started charging $10 a month I would be forced to pick only a few to visit since I would likely not be willing to pay $100 a month total. None of these sites are a "killer, must have", including Pocket PC Thoughts (sorry). I visit here everyday but it's a nice little extra to feed my PPC habit, not a necessity. I might be willing to pay something but not much. Think less about what you feel something should be worth and more about how much your customers think it would be worth.
Bill
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07-26-2002, 12:36 AM
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Executive Editor
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 29,160
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Guys, please read Andy's post again: he's not talking about this site. Please don't turn this into a conversation about paying for Thoughts - that wasn't Andy's intention, nor do I want to see the conversation go in that direction - no one is asking you to pay anything for reading this site, so don't start throwing stones... 
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07-26-2002, 02:40 AM
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Intellectual
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 156
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For me, micro-payments is only a part of a bigger picture. Making online payments as quick and easy and handing over cash is, I believe, vital. Whether it's something pyschological or just the fact that humans are plain lazy, it strikes me that most people would simply not visit a site rather than have to get their credit card dusted down.
I have a feeling that the key to making money on the web is keeping the content free. For me, the future lies in adverts. Not in the traditional sense, of course - advertisers don't pay well enough to enable a webmaster to make a good, honest living.
Rather, I see a future for sites whose "premium" (i.e. micro-paid-up) members, the hardcore enthusiasts, don't see any ads. Regular visitors, on the other hand, do. The trouble is, of course, that you've probably got to make the ads suitably annoying. Annoying enough to try and get people to fork out the readies, but not so annoying that they leave in a fit of pique never to return again.
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07-26-2002, 04:27 AM
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Pupil
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 32
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Here is an interesting thought that I have come across. In Japan, the Coca-Cola Company and Japanese bottlers have created vending machines that can connect to web-based content via the phone system. This is based on the DoCoMo iMode and it is called cMode. The interesting thing is that you can go to a cMode Coke machine, which is already set-up to take cash or cashless payment for softdrinks, and pay for web-based services from providers that do not have a cash handling system and can't afford the fees from the banks for cashless. Now Coca-Cola can handle pre-paid and micro-payments and charge a small handling fee (they already have to handle the cash/cashless, so it is only variable expense added...pennies on the dollar).
Now Coca-Cola can only offer to be a collection point, not an enforcer/collector. And, true to phone systems here in the states, the content providers have to be partners with DoCoMo (Keiretsu discussion, anyone? :wink: ) so, it may be hard for all content providers.
This is still in its infancy. It would be really hard for Americans who a) don't have the phone system yet to handle banking as they cross from state to state, and b) are distrustful of most forms of cashless payments (even credit cards are only 55% of the US pop.). In micro-payment US cash is king. If Wal*Mart were smart, they would handle the cash transactions for web-based content providers. As much as I hate to go, everyone must go to Wal*Mart at least once a year. As you buy your Wal*Mart underwear, you could also pay for your web use.
By the way, wasn't Wal*Mart described in GO's 1984 as part of Big Brother?
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07-26-2002, 04:39 AM
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Neophyte
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 5
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Micro-payments are partial answer...
Micro-payments can get us close but we need to be careful what we wish for. Anyone else ever read Vernor Vinge's "True Names"? Anybody see the legislation introduced today in the US which would allow the music and movie companies to hack into P2P networks as long as they had a "reasonable" belief that copyrighted material was present?
Think about it..if you drop a penny in a jar at a store that is a micro-payment but is also anonymous...an e-cash system doesn't just have to include the same convenience as cash but the same privacy aspect as well.
OehlertPPC
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07-26-2002, 05:43 AM
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Intellectual
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 193
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Micro Payments
Micro Payments might not be feesable now, but i would say they wil be soon. I mean everyone keeps talking about the E-wallet. The day that actually happens would i have a problem dishing out 2 cents a story at every news site? Not really. I mean it might not be the best solution but it is a good option.
Also why shouldn't we be able to expect free stuff on the net. The information on the net is based off TONS of people searching for information. MANY alturistic people providing their information. The only reason there is paying is because companies highjacked all the good sites threw money everywhere and thought the consumer would pay money, when they really liked the internet in the first place becasue it was a place of free informational exchange. It was a alternative news source that didn't always have some corprate news. If i could find all the info i wanted on the web easily i would avoid most corprate sites. The thing is even on google now all you can find is the corprate sites. So now people post and put there free information on a company board or forum instead of on there own site or newsgroups. So should we pay companies for forcing us to gather at their sites? not really, if you want to be a writer you have to understand that with the internet there is alot of people willing to write for free. To make money you have to work harder or write in other mediums or offer quality above and beyond the free versions.
Sorry if this note came off harsh i didn't intend it to be. I guess i just htink everyone should try to share the resources (or people) on the web.
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