07-21-2002, 09:00 PM
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Executive Editor
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 29,160
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Official iPAQ Petition
http://www.ipaqpetition.com/
We've seen discussion threads kicking around the problems with the iPAQ, but it seems that someone has decided to take it to the next level by creating this web site. I have mixed feelings about a site like this, but I have to admit that the sheer number of patches and issues with the iPAQ is clearly disproportionate compared to other Pocket PCs on the market.
"Thank you for visiting this page. We have created this website to highlight the problems many users have had with the products known as the iPAQ PocketPC. This includes the 3600, 3700, and 3800 series of products. As consumers, we work very hard for our money. If a company releases a product that does not function as promised, the product is defective. It is then that company's responsibility to remedy the situation by fixing or replacing the product. The end result must be that consumers are provided with a product that functions as promised." In the case of the iPAQ series of PocketPCs HP/Compaq have failed to do so."
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07-21-2002, 09:41 PM
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,878
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Wow.....
This site really tries to address all of the issues with the Ipaq. However, since they are also laying blame to Microsoft, maybe they should just use the petition to reflect all Pocket PC's. I mean, the Jornada is not perfect, neither is Toshiba, symbol, etc.
As a matter of fact, how can they hope to be compensated for faulty products when the hardware manufacturer can blame the software company and vice-versa (Talk about an endless loop).....
I honestly don't think we will ever find a tech product (especially as early adapters) that we are 100% satisfied with.......
Just my .02
Steve
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07-21-2002, 10:47 PM
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Thinker
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 355
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maybe more...
if i were them, i'd place a link to each software update that addresses each "bug" they could not only draw attention to the old "bugs" but help people get the latest software. most of what they're listing is old news and has been fixed in one way or another.
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07-21-2002, 10:56 PM
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Theorist
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 262
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Quote from their site :
Instead, HP/Compaq chose to continue producing and selling defective products with the 37xx and 38xx series iPAQs. As a result, all three series of color iPAQs suffer from serious issues rendering them defective.
/End quote
I really don't get this, I've had two 3660's until now (the first was replace under carepaq warranty because the paint got scrached up bad) and I haven't found any defects yet that render the device unusable. I also haven't gotten any dust until now , so I'm wondering, are the 36xx and 37xx really problem children or is the 38xx the only device that truly suffers from difficulties ?
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07-21-2002, 11:05 PM
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Sage
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 633
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Anyone fancy setting ones up for (in no particular order of course) :
Win 95
Win 98
Win 98ME
Win2k
WinXP
WinOffice
WinExcel
WinPowerpoint
AllGraphixDrivers
MostModemonestoo
98%ofFaxsoftware
etc
etc
etc
etc
etc
I always liked the old email about "If cars ran Windows"
I suppose it does pose an interesting question - namely at what point is the company in question 'breaking-even' with regard to their public image - and let's face it, on Microsofts track record, have they ever been in deficit spending?
The only one that springs to mind was Cokes' attempt at changing to, was it something like Coke classic?
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07-21-2002, 11:07 PM
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Theorist
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 262
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Okay, I'm getting more curious whether the 38xx really is such a bad machine. This is everything the site says about the 36xx and 37xx series. I'll add comments from my experience with my 3660's and I invite others to do the same.
1. Dust or tiny glass fragments collect underneath the screen of these devices. This is a result of improper manufacturing practice. The dust continues to accumulate and impairs the user�s ability to clearly see the screen.
--> Apparantly a common problem found on discussion forums. Haven't had any dust issues what so ever myself.
2. The speaker will randomly stop working on many of these devices.
--> No problem here
3. The speaker demonstrates a �popping� noise when a sound or audio file begins to play.
--> Happens sometimes, not very often.
4. User backlight settings are not remembered by the device and reset to the factory default randomly.
--> I've noticed this a couple of times, rather annoying although not rendering the device 'defective'.
5. The navigation disk will randomly get stuck in a direction causing uncontrollable scrolling in that direction. The navigation disk does not get physically stuck, the directional command gets stuck.
--> No problem here
6. Occasionally, the iPAQ Today screen will stop refreshing. Images from previously opened programs will remain on the screen and the typical Today screen images (such as Calendar appointments, Tasks, etc.) will not display.
--> No problem here
7. The battery of these devices may completely drain overnight even if the device has a full charge and the device is not in use. This causes all data and programs stored in RAM to be deleted.
--> I have noticed that battery life indeed is decreasing after alot of charges. I thought this was common for batteries that after alot of charges they lose about 20% of their capacity. Draining overnight without use is weird though and I haven't had that problem.
8. These devices will randomly become stuck in an endless loop which prevents the device from moving beyond the �alignment� screen.
--> No problem here.
9. These devices are unpredictably unreliable when connected to a host PC via a USB cradle or cable connection.
--> Unreliable? What do they mean with this? Does it start attacking people at random or something ? ;-)
10. The iPAQ cradle does not always make solid contact with the handheld device due to the way it was designed.
--> No problem here
11. The stylus does not always eject due to a poor design of the ejection system.
--> I thought normally the stylus lock got broken so that ejection would happen when you didn't want it (had this problem with my first 3660)
12. Power button slips inside the unit so it is no longer visible in the hole.
--> No problem here
13. The hard reset cover may break off completely or fail to stay closed.
--> No problem here, is this only for people who use their hard reset button every week or so ? I've need my hard reset button two times untill now, so I can't see how that can break the cover.
14. The power button may completely fail to operate the device.
--> No probleme here
15. The digitizer becomes misaligned and will not recognize stylus taps in the correct location even after the user attempts to re-calibrate the digitizer.
--> Heard about this problem on forums, haven't had this problem myself.
16. Activesync connections to a host computer suffer from a variety of problems including only syncing once before forcing a reboot to sync additional times, failure to sync at all, and the random loss of Activesync partnerships.
--> Can we blame this on compaq ? Once in a while I need to open taskmanager, kill activesync and then start it again. Is this really a compaq problem?
Anywayz, I was wondering if all the problems that were listed (and I don't have) are common problems. Do people really frequently have those problems and are the 36xx 37xx and 38xx really bad machines? Or are the problems that are listed more exceptions than rule ?
Glad to hear from your experience.
Ivan
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07-21-2002, 11:16 PM
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Ponderer
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 91
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Re: Official iPAQ Petition
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jason Dunn
As consumers, we work very hard for our money. If a company releases a product that does not function as promised, the product is defective. It is then that company's responsibility to remedy the situation by fixing or replacing the product. The end result must be that consumers are provided with a product that functions as promised." In the case of the iPAQ series of PocketPCs HP/Compaq have failed to do so."
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While I am thankful someone is taking this stand and pointing out to Compaq/HP that we iPaq owners are not very happy with the products and the sometimes lacksidaisy fixes, when I read the above, the main thought that went thru my head was
"gee, don't buy much software, do these guys?"
The fact is, the entire computer industry, or at least the software side of things has made us all very accepting of the amount of bugs and poor or shoddy coding that is allowed to go through the dev stage to a final product.
I remember back when Netscape 4.0 was still in beta. I sent in several beta reports to the company pointing out several severe errors, including the (now infamous) nested tables bugs, serious bugs in the implementation of CSS 1.0 and other issues. The nested tables bug was the worst of the lot, but you know what? They never fixed it in the beta, they never fixed it in 4.0, 4.02, 4.08, 4.1 etc etc. The last Netscape 4.x I have was 4.78 or something like that, and the bug still existed.
That's just one example. We're so used to software companies either ignoring bugs or playing spinnarooni with the terminology (it isn't a bug, it's a feature!) that is it any real surprise to expect anything different from the iPaq and its hardware issues or implementation of the OS?
Another poster mentioned "if windows was a car...." yes. a very sad but true comparison. We've put up with software bugs for so long that my question is this - what makes us compaq iPaq customers so special that we believe we should be singled out as a special group that should get new machines with new OS at no charge or cost?
We've let various software companies get away with bugs for so long (Microsoft and Corel are at the top of that heap) that in many ways, the poor performance of the iPaqs is in some ways our own doing... companies don't have the complete impetus to release 100% bug free and "works as promised" software and hardware... because they don't have to. We'll buy it anyway.
Mark
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07-22-2002, 12:24 AM
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,878
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The other thing I wanted to touch upon: I sat down and took a good look at my current Pocket PC (the Jornada 548 believe it or not). I still think it was one of the best Pocket PC's ever developed (even with the problems that were documented at the time). HP did a hell of a job making a beautiful, fully functional, professional looking Pocket PC. If someone came up to me today and said "The 548 was flawed, we should get our money back", I would respond with: Go away.......
I still think we are going to encounter problems with devices as early adapters, it's just the nature of the beast. If you want to buy software/hardware guaranteed to be free of defects, keep your wallet in you pocket, it's not going to happen.....
Just my .02 (again)
Steve
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07-22-2002, 01:01 AM
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Intellectual
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 159
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This all started as a discussion on Brighthand with lots of feedback. Much of that asking these people to lay off for the obvious reasons. I wonder how long it is going to take a predatory law firm's class action clerk to find this URL? Since there are over a million units at issue here you can almost see the $$$$ flashing in red out there in legal-land.
Jason, says he has mixed feelings about this - I outright hate this for what it is and the ruin it could cause if the lawyers latch on. And by the way, what exactly is this? Maybe ten core guys who had real problems with mostly the 3850. Yeah - about $5,000 worth of hardware. When they couldn't get results through customer service this was their solution. Of course what they don't seem to realize is that if they succeed with a major settlement - the next ten years of bright ideas and brilliant innovations will go unfunded unless government picks them up. Who is going to fund something with hundreds of millions in research and start-up costs when all it takes are a dozen Brighthanders to chop your financial legs off? This sucks!
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07-22-2002, 01:07 AM
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Intellectual
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 122
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cedrones
Wow.....
This site really tries to address all of the issues with the Ipaq. However, since they are also laying blame to Microsoft, maybe they should just use the petition to reflect all Pocket PC's. I mean, the Jornada is not perfect, neither is Toshiba, symbol, etc.
As a matter of fact, how can they hope to be compensated for faulty products when the hardware manufacturer can blame the software company and vice-versa (Talk about an endless loop).....
I honestly don't think we will ever find a tech product (especially as early adapters) that we are 100% satisfied with.......
Just my .02
Steve
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On the site, the petition divides the issues into 4 categories:
1. Issues specific to the 36xx/37xx series of iPAQs
2. Issues specific to the 38xx series of iPAQs
3. Issues with the PPC2000 OS
4. Issues with the PPC2002 OS
The petition also specifically states that the signers would like for HP/Compaq to fix all the non-OS related issues. The reason the OS issues are listed is because they further demonstrate reduced functionality of these devices.
Everyone who was involved in creating the petition has tried to resolve their issues with HP/Compaq to no avail. We are hoping that the petition will attract the attention of the HP executive team and give them a kick in the you-know-where to help us. If they also are able to let Microsoft know about the OS problems all the better.
Thanks for participating in the discussion.
__________________
If it can't be done with XS, then it shouldn't be done at all!!!
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