06-12-2002, 12:41 AM
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Contributing Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,228
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Bluetooth, again.... Sigh.....
I had a great trip to Ft. Lauderdale for the DDH Software HandBase Summit. I'll have a write-up in the next day or so, but suffice it to say, HanDBase 3.0 seems to have all of the bases covered, from a single doctor to enterprise data synchronization.
One of the new features is the ability to do peer to peer synchronization of a database via bluetooth. HanDBase 3.0 is still in beta and the Palm bits are about 30 days ahead of the Pocket PC bits, so they demoed the bluetooth synchronization using a DDH software M515 with a Palm (Toshiba) SD BT card and an audience member that had an identical setup. Well, they tried. And tried. The twin M515's wouldn't bond. I swear I could have installed Palm Desktop on two randomly selected laptops, enabled IR in the BIOS, watched Windows ME pitch a hissy about some IRQ conflict (I am amazed at the number of those with relatively new hardware that haven't upgraded to XP), flicked some stuff in the device manager, rebooted, synced the Palms to their respective PC's and then swapped floppies. And I STILL would have had time to get a refill on my coffee!  It certainly wasn't DDH Software's fault. Probably wasn't Palm's either. Bluetooth just doesn't work as advertised. I see more driver patches and updates to make BT devices compatible, yet that is what the BT standard is supposed to do.
� know, I know, some of you love it. You have your iPAQ and Ericcson working great together. Well, there were some people that didn't have a problem with Service Pack 2 for Windows NT 4.0.
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06-12-2002, 01:35 AM
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Thinker
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 329
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Re: Bluetooth, again.... Sigh.....
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Originally Posted by Ed Hansberry
I had a great trip to Ft. Lauderdale for the DDH Software HandBase Summit. I'll have a write-up in the next day or so, but suffice it to say, HanDBase 3.0 seems to have all of the bases covered, from a single doctor to enterprise data synchronization.
One of the new features is the ability to do peer to peer synchronization of a database via bluetooth. HanDBase 3.0 is still in beta and the Palm bits are about 30 days ahead of the Pocket PC bits, so they demoed the bluetooth synchronization using a DDH software M515 with a Palm (Toshiba) SD BT card and an audience member that had an identical setup. Well, they tried. And tried. The twin M515's wouldn't bond. I swear I could have installed Palm Desktop on two randomly selected laptops, enabled IR in the BIOS, watched Windows ME pitch a hissy about some IRQ conflict (I am amazed at the number of those with relatively new hardware that haven't upgraded to XP), flicked some stuff in the device manager, rebooted, synced the Palms to their respective PC's and then swapped floppies. And I Still would have had time to get a refill on my coffee! It certainly wasn't DDH Software's fault. Probably wasn't Palm's either. Bluetooth just doesn't work as advertised. I see more driver patches and updates to make BT devices compatible, yet that is what the BT standard is supposed to do.
� know, I know, some of you love it. You have your iPAQ and Ericcson working great together. Well, There were some people that didn't have a problem with Service Pack 2 for Windows NT 4.0. |
It's nice to hear someone else saying that standard doesn't work! But.. In this case, I would have tested this out first, and have been sure it was working before demoing it.
David
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06-12-2002, 02:02 AM
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Ponderer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 109
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Re: Bluetooth, again.... Sigh.....
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Originally Posted by Ed Hansberry
Bluetooth just doesn't work as advertised. I see more driver patches and updates to make BT devices compatible, yet that is what the BT standard is supposed to do.
� know, I know, some of you love it. You have your iPAQ and Ericcson working great together. Well, There were some people that didn't have a problem with Service Pack 2 for Windows NT 4.0.
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Ed, have you ever played multi-player games over Bluetooth?
I did. It changes everything.
Bluetooth works as expected - you just need to know what to expect from it...
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06-12-2002, 03:50 AM
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Pontificator
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,468
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I'm sorry Ed but you are talking absolute nonsense and are way off base on this one!
Bluetooth works fine - some software implementations of it are, sadly, very poor and some manufacturers inexplicably choose not to support all of the profiles they can. How is that the fault of Bluetooth?
To date - I have synced an iPAQ 3870 with a TDK BT dongle on a work computer - the devices had never connected before but there was abolutely no problem. I have connected the iPAQ - numerous times - to an Ericsson R520m mobile - through walls, floors etc. - no problem (well except for the iPAQ stack problem - but that's Compaq's fault!). I connected the iPAQ to a Sony Vaio with built-in BT - no problem. I connected the Vaio to an HP 995c BT printer to test it - I didn't buy the printer but it worked flawlessly. Finally I connected my old iPAQ to another iPAQ which was using a BT sleeve and transmitted a contact. Again - no problem!
So - where do you get the strange notion that BT itself is at fault?!! Either Palm or HanDBase were at fault. The BT standard is great - but, like web standards, if people don't implement it properly there will be incompatibilities - thus the need for patches! Blaming the standard itself for the shortfall of manufacturers in meeting it is more than a little unfair to the standard! It's becoming one of those oft repeated, but entirely without foundation, BT myths - like the old 'not many devices using BT available' myth...
I will stand by this - not one patch has had to be issued for ANY BT enabled device to make up for a shortfall in the BT standard itself. Every single patch released has been to correct a software or hardware fault that has prevented the standard from being properly implemented. The BT 1.1 standard has remained unaltered and revised since it went gold (any other wireless - or even wired - standard that can say the same? 8) ).
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06-12-2002, 05:18 AM
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Ponderer
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 50
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Basically I tend to agree that there are additional needs for standards beyond how the Bluetooth 1.1 stack works.
Overall the stack defines standard interfaces such as serial, voice and network connections. The problem is Microsoft needs to set some standards that are part of the APIs in Windows:
1. Compaq implemented a 128k limitation in their hardware and that causes other vendors that run at full speed to fail to work.
2. Serial port implementations outside the standard ports that ActiveSync supports. So you can't sync with some cards due to this.
3. Standard detection of a Bluetooth device in the system at the OS level.
4. Standard implementation of API calls to the Bluetooth stack to allow for connections.
Also, some Bluetooth implementations are still 1.0 and do not support all the profiles. (Anycom and Socket just released their Bluetooth 1.1 cards for example) So a user has to know what profiles each device supports and then they can figure out how they can work together. For example only the Fujitsu Loox supports the Bluetooth voice profile out of all the Pocket PCs!
All of these things must come before users can guarantee connectivity.
My suggestion to users who want to get Bluetooth is to make sure that the hardware vendor you choose has tested and endorsed the connectivity to the devices you plan on using. Otherwise there may be some glitch that prevents the connectivity from working.
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06-12-2002, 05:34 AM
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Intellectual
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 194
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I don't know what the heck you're saying
I've been working with Bluetooth for over 6 months now, with my pocket pc and different phones, using Running Voice, Pocket Phone Tools and others, and these things have been working fantastically well.
Every time I came around something that did not work, it turned out that the developer did not know how to support BT accordingly, and after a patch from his side, it began to work.
There are still some glitches in the BT support of some devices, but they are all converging very quickly.
Helio
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06-12-2002, 07:28 AM
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Ponderer
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 95
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I hate to say this, but I'm beginning really to dislike bluetooth.
Promises, promises.
I've got 2 bluetooth devices from the same brand, and they even don't work properly together...
As a consumer, I don't care what the cause is that it doesn't work right. Up to date, I've spent too much time trying to get these things work together. If the manufacturers don't get their act together, then I don't want it anymore.
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06-12-2002, 07:48 AM
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Ponderer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 109
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by innersky
I hate to say this, but I'm beginning really to dislike bluetooth.
Promises, promises.
I've got 2 bluetooth devices from the same brand, and they even don't work properly together...
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WRONG!!!! You need to be more specific and say "I'm beginning really to dislike bluetooth FROM SUCH AND SUCH VENDOR" because I really have seen almost-perfect Bluetooth implementations from various vendors and it is possible...
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06-12-2002, 11:08 AM
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Ponderer
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 95
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I know it is possible. It's just not happening.
And if you want me to call names : it's the usb dongle and the pc card from Tdksys.
BTW, there's really no need to shout here.
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06-12-2002, 11:10 AM
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Pupil
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 16
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I've got my Jornada720 using a Socket (with BT1.1) Bluetooth card talking to my Nokia 6210 with Bluetooth pack... it works really well.
I would agree with the poster earlier who said that the majority of problems are caused by application bugs. I use DUN and bFax without issue but mPhone and KSETruefax can cause the Bluetooth stack to crash meaning a soft reset of phone and PDA (Both companies are "working on it").
Patience is a virtue... and I know you have it... after all, how long have we waited for a useable version of WindowsCE ??? :twisted:
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