05-18-2002, 12:18 AM
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Contributing Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,228
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So begins the long road for Palm's OS5 conversion
http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/ptech/05/16/palm.checkup.idg/index.html
I debated as to whether this is Off Topic or a Thought for about 3 seconds before not caring anymore and posting it as a thought. I know that there are many former and current Palm users reading this site and I want to hear what you think. "Palm users worried whether their favorite applications will run on devices with the next version of the handheld's operating system may get some reassurance from an expanded compatibility program announced Monday." Microsoft took from 1995 (late 1992 if you count the start of Win95 development) to 2001 to move from a 16 bit platform, Windows 3.x, to a fully 32 bit platform for everyone, Windows XP. I know about Windows NT and personally used it almost exclusively starting in 1996, but there was a lot of hardware and software that wasn't usable by the mainstream user due to a reliance on 16 bit drivers. Palm won't have quite that big of a problem because they won't let OS5 run on older Dragonball devices and there aren't near as many Palm applications and accessories as there were for Windows 3.1.
Still, this is no small undertaking. Palm has already said most hacks, which represents about 20% of the software available for Palm OS devices, won't work. Given many of them were to simulate multitasking like PopUp Names that allow you to open your Contacts without switching from your current application. Palm has created an OS5 logo that will ensure your applications run if the vendor passes the certification, but all OS4.1 compliant apps must undergo this testing or you are on your own as to whether your application will work. "Because Palm 5 will run older apps by emulating the 4.1 OS, about 80 percent of apps that are certified for 4.1 should not have a problem, he says. However, the Palm 4.1 certification program does not distinguish applications that are properly written for the Palm 4.1 application programming interface from those that weren't properly written. The programs that use hacks may run perfectly well on Palm 4.1, but run into trouble when they attempt to run in emulation mode in Palm 5."
"If even a fraction of all Palm apps are submitted for compatibility testing, Quality Partners will have its work cut out. PalmGear, the leading online store for Palm applications, stocks some 13,000 programs, Mace says." And then there is all the hype around OS5. It won't allow the user to multitask yet and requires all new hardware, so it is doubtful too many of the 13,000 apps Palm has now will be rewritten to really take advantage of OS5 since that would 1) leave 100% of existing OS3 and OS4 users out in the cold and 2) be very expensive and time consuming. I would expect it to be 12 months minimum before you start to see a significant number of OS5 exclusive apps that are designed to take full advantage of the operating system. Sort of like buying a new Mac OS X computer the month it came out. You could run Internet Explorer and other included apps, but not much else without launching Classic.
What do you think? Think OS5 will be a smooth transition? Think the average person will care? Is OS5 more marketing than substance, i.e., what you could do versus what you will really be able to do, at least for a year or so. I tried to include a poll but there are just too many ways people could feel about this so decided against it. Click the "Add your Thoughts" below and let us know your thoughts on the subject.
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05-18-2002, 02:31 AM
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Intellectual
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 212
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My initial thought is that it IS more marketing than substance. I know that sometimes innovating requires some discomfort in order to accomplish what is believed to be needed in order to expand technological and market horizons. Win xp falls into this category, but then again, most programs out there were written as 32bit, so this didnt present such a shock to Windows users. And part of this must have been due to Microsofts vision which allowed programmers and users time to ease into a 32bit only environment flexible enough for the average consumer. But based on what youre stating about how palms OS5 will impact software, there is clearly going to be a much larger shock to palm users who choose to upgrade to the new system.
The company is going to have to hedge its bet with something. No multitasking to me, is a big mistake. They better have something substantial to this new system in terms of its guts and UI, otherwise whats the point and how would it benefit the user? If they put something out there like this that could have the realistic potential of making users wait up to a year to see enough apps to make using the new OS practical, then boy, they better really have something up their sleeve that nobody knows about yet, but will WOW everybody when everything is revealed. Otherwise, this whole thing could really blow up in their face and drive one of the last few nails into their coffin. Not that I think palm will die off, but it could drive them into a real niche market. Just seems like a awfully big risk to take.
All that time for consumers to wait for apps. Thats an awfully big window of time for Microsoft to slide on in and sweep up a lot more market share. While palm users are twiddling their thumbs waiting for apps, Microsoft is going to be going forward full steam, and dont think for a second palm users arent going to be looking over to the pocket pc side of things with all of the action taking place and start to wonder whether the grass is greener on the other side.
Guess we`ll see...
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05-18-2002, 02:33 AM
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,878
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I think the first version will be a kludge.......
If they do anything, they better make sure they can keep the PIM part of it as easy/easier to use then it is currently. If it takes more then two taps with the stylus, people may be forced to go with Pocket PC :wink:
Steve
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05-18-2002, 03:45 AM
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Contributing Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,228
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kre
The company is going to have to hedge its bet with something. No multitasking to me, is a big mistake.
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I think that was a matter of running out of time vs a deliberate decision. From what I understand, all of the things necessary for multitasking are in OS5, it was just a matter of putting it all together so it worked well and was intuitive to the users. I think OS6 will have this implemented.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kre
They better have something substantial to this new system in terms of its guts and UI, otherwise whats the point and how would it benefit the user? If they put something out there like this that could have the realistic potential of making users wait up to a year to see enough apps to make using the new OS practical, then boy, they better really have something up their sleeve that nobody knows about yet, but will WOW everybody when everything is revealed. Otherwise, this whole thing could really blow up in their face and drive one of the last few nails into their coffin. Not that I think palm will die off, but it could drive them into a real niche market. Just seems like a awfully big risk to take.
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They are between a rock and a hard place here. Load it with cool new things and "wow" the user and they risk offending those clinging to zen. I see many posting that they don't want the UI and overall experience to change. If it changes too much and the user has to learn all new stuff, do they learn Palm or just move to Pocket PC?
The flip side is they do baby steps. Small incremental changes. Now, the advanced users craving a radical OS change are left out in the cold. Do they perservere with Palm or switch to Pocket PC?
My gut is the former group is the larger userbase. The latter are the techies and geeks that post to these and other boards and want to move fast, but probably a smaller group. Palm has to go where the money is and keep the larger base happy. That being said, who is the user they don't have yet? One satisfied with the simple Palm UI or the one that wants more of a PC experience (Start menu, skinning, multitasking, etc) in their device, one that has a very very low learning curve if you use Windows today. I'd say that is a pretty big market, and one they are not really targeting with OS5.
Whatever is released, it will make a great addition to the "Piloting Palm" book in a few years, and likely a good study in business schools.
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05-18-2002, 04:12 AM
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Intellectual
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 255
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Good Luck Palm
Make no mistake, the migration from Palm OS 4 to Palm OS 5 will be a difficult one. Palm OS 5 runs only on ARM-based processors. Palm OS 4 and earlier runs only on Motorola Dragonball-based processors. Palm users will need a new device to run OS 5, there will not be a ROM upgrade for OS 3 or OS 4 devices with flash ROM.
Palm has stated that there will be few if any changes to the Palm OS UI in OS 5, that the main change is the support for the new CPU. It might be difficult to convince Palm OS users to purchase new devices that have the same UI and run only some of the programs that ran on OS 3 or 4. The ARM-based processors will likely be faster, but then the base Palm OS applications (PIM) have never had a speed issue even on the slowest Dragonball processors.
It would appear that finding a compelling reason to upgrade to a new Palm OS 5-based device may be challenging. Hopefully, the Palm hardware licensees will release new hardware with new features to take advantage of the new processor and processor speed. Hopefully, Palm software developers will create some compelling new software applications for the new hardware and OS.
The Pocket PC team in Redmond needs the competition to keep them on their toes !!! Good luck to the Palm hardware and software vendors, it will be an interesting 12 to 18 months for them.
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05-18-2002, 04:29 AM
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Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,171
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Hey, does anyone know if you can create a PRC that's dual PalmOS4/PalmOS5?
I think Apple's transition from the 68K to the PowerPC was reasonably well-done: the "fat binary" approach. And even then, there were a lot of growing pains, but at least you could buy one software package and have it run on all Macs, without emulation.
If not, then the OS5 transition will be even worse (and it won't be a piece of cake to start with...)
--bdj
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05-18-2002, 04:34 AM
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Pontificator
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 1,466
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ed Hansberry
...or the one that wants more of a PC experience (Start menu, skinning, multitasking, etc) in their device, one that has a very very low learning curve if you use Windows today. I'd say that is a pretty big market
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I'm not convinced that is the case. People aren't as dependent on Windows GUI as you suggest. Cell phones don't run Windows, yet everyone carries one and they know how to operate it. I don't hear anyone lamenting that their MP3 player doesn't run Windows. AOL is the most popular online service, and their client software has a completely unique UI.
Poeple tend to adapt to an interface that naturally suits the device it powers.
And aside from a few familiar conventions, PocketPC looks nothing like a Windows desktop. In fact, it is oriented backwards. The task bar is located at the top of the display, and the menu bar is at the bottom. That will certainly cause confusion for some people. And unlike the desktop, there are no common windowing controls, such as "minimize" and "maximize".
Granted, the PPC has more in common with Windows than the PalmOS, but there is definitely a learning curve involved.
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05-18-2002, 07:07 AM
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Ponderer
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 58
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I think palms only hope is to make sure palm 5 worksd with old apps.
Simply put If it doesnt it will be essential a New OS With Nothing
Then Windows Ce will be the only option
Now i love haveing the best and i hope Palm can create a better device than windows
havent seen it yet
Sony has a chance and id love to see it run 5
oh well
Heres hoping one way or another
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05-18-2002, 12:23 PM
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Ponderer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 66
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Palm OS is hot again
Later this year we'll see more developments from Palm OS licensees as devices running Palm OS 5 hit the market. In addition to supporting ARM-compliant processors from Intel, Motorola and Texas Instruments, Palm OS 5 offers enhanced multimedia capabilities, additional security options and expandsed support for wireless connections, while maintaining compatibility with existing software.
So it appears that Palm has weathered the storm, surviving the most volatile year to date in the history of handheld computers, despite what you may have heard.
from 'Palm OS is hot again'
http://www.brighthand.com/newsite/fe...rketshare.html
But will the Palm OS 5.0 also be HOT?
Palm OS 4.0 vs. 5.0
http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/handhel...40080-2,00.htm
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05-18-2002, 12:46 PM
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Linear Mode
