03-22-2002, 08:45 PM
|
|
Contributing Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,228
|
|
The mobile Internet
Guys and gals, the 'm' in mobile is lowercase for a reason. "Mobile Internet" is not a proper noun. "Mobile" is an adjective that describes how you access the internet, not part of the name serving as a adjective describing what type of internet you are accessing. Phone carriers need to get this through their thick skulls as they continue to try to force us to use their �walled garden� for internet access � think AOL here. It seems the competition does as well.
I visited the Palm booth at CeBIT. I went to their connectivity section and saw their "Mobile Internet" kit. YAWN! "Internet access with your Palm handheld" it shouted. Email, SMS, WAP and Web Clipping. Folks, I know the web isn't the Internet, but it sure as heck is 80% of the Internet - probably more if you compared the number of bytes transferred daily vs. the amount that goes through email, SMS, IM and Usenet.
This PQA web clipping garbage isn't Internet access anymore than AvantGo is. And WAP is about as fun and interesting as Gopher used to be. So, from this information, it seems Palm doesn't have an Internet solution, and of course, true to form, you don't need one. You can get Internet access "quickly and efficiently over a wireless connection without being slowed down by cumbersome graphics or unwanted information." Of course, that neglects to tell you that full blown browsers, like those in the Nokia Communicator, Pocket PC's, Smartphone 2002 and Symbian devices can turn the graphics off, and then selectively download that "unwanted information" which just happens to be a weather map, stock chart or just a Dilbert cartoon if you want.
We've heard it before Palm. We don't need it until you have it. Blahbedy blah blah blah. And it is interesting that even though I couldn�t find it in your booth nor in your �Mobile Internet� pamphlet, you now have a full blown browser that will be available in April � for $20 no less. It seems Palm fans, of which there are many, will finally be able to experience the web on their devices, provided it is one of the $200 or higher devices less than a year old. Why this wouldn�t run on the bazillions of Vx�s out there is beyond me. So what happened to not needing all of that other stuff, �cumbersome images� and the like? Oh, you have it now. :-|
I guess that is the thing that ticks me off most. If the hardware, software, or the infrastructure in the case of the carriers, cannot support it, then just say so, and tell us when it will support it. But incessantly telling us what we do and don't need based on what you can and cannot provide is insane. And the market place is speaking. The carriers that open up their data connection to the full Internet for use on smartphones, PDA's and PC's will be the winners. Not the ones that try the original AOL walled garden approach. Even AOL saw the error of their ways and opened the floodgates and were rewarded richly for it. And the manufacturers of mobile devices that support those data connections to their fullest, be it Pocket PC, Smartphone, Symbian, Nokia's Communicator, etc., will also be richly rewarded.
|
| |
|
|
|
03-22-2002, 10:10 PM
|
|
Ponderer
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 85
|
|
Chill
:wink: Calm down! You sound like I feel when I wake up in the morning (or early afternoon) only to find that the cat had to 'let go' in the bread-bin overnight!
|
| |
|
|
|
03-22-2002, 10:37 PM
|
|
Ponderer
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 83
|
|
Ed-
very interesting post. i must say that i concur with most of your views, especially the arrogance with which palm constructs its marketing message. it is ridiculous for any organization to attempt to tell its customers and prospects what they do and don't need. giving them something that they need before they know they need it is one thing, but ignoring stated needs is simply suicidal.
having said that, i would like to solicit some thoughts from anyone who might be reading about a somewhat-on-topic dilemma that i am facing. a little background here:
my first pda was the palm III which i bought right around launch time. i thought that thing was great. it started to flake out on me after 18 months or so, so i started looking at the palm V. about this time the first PocketPCs were being released, so i bought a Casio E-105 (i think) and a replacement plan from best buy. through said replacement plan i have also owned an ipaq 3635 and ipaq 3765. i sold the 3765 on ebay because i wanted an XScale device when they start shipping, and i feared that the release of the XScale devices would cut the value of my 3765 in half.
being the gadget nut that i am, i made it about three days before i had to have another device. i bought a Toshiba e570 which i have since returned because the battery life really does stink on those things (fully charged battery went dead two weekends in a row while the device was sitting idle in the case with no reminders going off). now i am once again sans-PDA trying to figure out if i can make it two months until the Pocket LOOX or new toshiba or any other XScale device is released.
i have been spending some of this time trying to ascertain what my true needs are, and how they would be best met. i loved my pocketpc's, and i think the platform has lapped palm several times over. there is no comparison between the two platforms on the 'wow factor' dimension. and while i always find myself installing apps and buying peripherals to experience the wow factor personally, the wow has generally been short-lived and i find myself using my device for the following:
- reading and replying to email
- using word or excel to view attachments (i never create or even edit)
- managing my schedule
- contact management
- avantgo / mazingo
- media player, exclusively for audio and almost always at the gym
- pocket bible
when i think about what i would like to be able to do that my prior pocketpc's did not enable me to do, there is only one thing that really jumps out at me, and that is wireless email. i have a RIM 952 pager that somewhat meets this need in my professional life, but personal email is a whole different story (which is probably cause for a whole separate discussion on the stepchild treatment microsoft's own hotmail gets on the pocketpc -- shouldn't it be easier than it is to have your hotmail delivered through activesync?).
so.... getting to the point, here is where i am at. let's say i wait a couple of months and buy an XScale pocketpc with integrated bluetooth. there goes $600 and i still don't have wireless email. i know i can sit the device next to my nokia 8290 and savor the rapid fire 9600bps connection, but i prefer root canals. i also i know i could shell out another four bills for a t68 and bluetooth my way to a GPRS connection, but has anyone checked the prices on that service? i know prices will go down, but when and by how much?
so at the risk of being branded a heretic, i am seriously contemplating the palm i705. i know it's greyscale. it know it utilizes 'web-clipping'. i know it doesn't play mp3's but hey, mp3 players are cheap. what it does offer, or at least appears to, is a wireless email solution that appears to be unmatched on any platform including the RIM.
i guess what i am asking for is for someone to politely point out ways that a pocketpc solution can do what i'm looking to do more cost-effectively than the i705 can. any thoughts?
my apologies in advance for the overly verbose post. i just wanted to set proper context to avert an all-out palm-bashing melee. the pocketpc kicks ass, but i am trying (and believe me this is difficult) to make this purchase based on my needs rather than on emotion.
thanks,
dave
|
| |
|
|
|
03-22-2002, 11:09 PM
|
|
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 516
|
|
Ed, surely you know that full web browsers have been out for some time for the Palm OS. The browser that you speak of is a Palm, Inc. browser, that's all. The fact is that web clipping is better for accessing useful information than full browsing (when an appropriate web clipping app exists). I believe that you, like many people, confuse web clipping with text web browsing. That isn't it. A web clipping app can incorporate graphics, and is more along the lines of a client/server application. The interface and other static aspects of the application are stored locally (on the Palm device) and the dynamic aspects are transmitted to and from the web server. The end result is that using a web clipping application, I can grab movie show times, yellow page directories, etc. quicker than is possible via a Pocket PC using a full web browser set to "hide" images.
Until 800 pixel wide PDA screens (or at least 400 pixels wide with some very smart scaling) and high bandwidth becomes the norm I'll take web clipping when I have the choice. Even with higher res screens and high bandwidth, it's important to note that web-based applications don't necessarily translate well to a PDA due to the smaller size and different input mechanisms.
Once again, this is the old argument about designing the interface specific to the advantages and limitations of the device. The original Palm device was designed with this sort of thinking. The original MS Palm-sized PC interface was not.
Scott
|
| |
|
|
|
03-22-2002, 11:31 PM
|
|
Ponderer
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 64
|
|
- reading and replying to email
- using word or excel to view attachments (i never create or even edit)
- managing my schedule
- contact management
- avantgo / mazingo
- media player, exclusively for audio and almost always at the gym
- pocket bible
Dave,
If you go to Palm, it looks like your needs will be met minus the MP3 playback & mazingo. It can do all of the other things. Have you thought about one of the new Smartphones that will be coming out? From what I understand they will offer MS Word/Excel support, email, contact/schedule management, & MP3's. However, I don't know if you'll be able to use pocket bible or avantgo/mazingo. There's also the option of the new wirless PPC's, PDA/phone hybrid. You can do all of your PPC applications & use it for email & a phone. That's all I can think of.........
|
| |
|
|
|
03-22-2002, 11:47 PM
|
|
Ponderer
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 85
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ojlittle
Have you thought about one of the new Smartphones that will be coming out? From what I understand they will offer MS Word/Excel support, email, contact/schedule management, & MP3's.
|
I can confirm that the 9290, when it comes out, will do just that (as does the 9210 right now). While it does lack quality in the MP3 department, the Communicator does Word, Excel, Email, FAX, SMS, HTML (normal) Internet, WAP Internet, viewing of many document formats (incuding WordPerfect, Powerpoint etc), excellent Contact Management, awesome scheduling, JAVA and MIDP and I use Mobi Reader for the Bible.
It plays video (NIM and Real), but if I'm honest, that area is not as good as it is with the PPC. I always use an MP3 player (or MiniDisc) in the gym because I have a terrible memory and I'd rather lose a relatively cheap music player than a relatively expensive mobile office - but I may change my mind when the 7650 come out!
If your needs are that easy, why not go for a bog standard PPC (really cheap these days) until what you really want comes out?
Just my tuppence.
|
| |
|
|
|
03-23-2002, 12:03 AM
|
|
Contributing Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,228
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Scott R
I believe that you, like many people, confuse web clipping with text web browsing. That isn't it. A web clipping app can incorporate graphics, and is more along the lines of a client/server application. The interface and other static aspects of the application are stored locally (on the Palm device) and the dynamic aspects are transmitted to and from the web server.
|
No, I am confusing nothing. You cannot PQA anywhere you want. If someone emails you a URL on your PPC and you tap it, you go to the web page. If they email you a URL on your Palm, you can't do that without a browser to go to the site, unless it is one of the .00000000001% of web sites PQA enabled.
|
| |
|
|
|
03-23-2002, 12:09 AM
|
|
Contributing Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,228
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Scott R
Once again, this is the old argument about designing the interface specific to the advantages and limitations of the device. The original Palm device was designed with this sort of thinking. The original MS Palm-sized PC interface was not.
|
This is what I was talking about - the same old line. "You don't need spreadsheets on your device. It isn't designed for that. You don't need color. You don't need sound. You don't need voice recording. You don't need {insert feature here}."
All of the sudden - ALL of that is now available. What changed? The hardware of course. Except Palm ignored hardware advances for at least 3 years which is what got them into trouble.
As you said, the PsPC wasn't well designed as far as the UI goes, but people ignored, to their own detriment, what the concept was. When the iPAQ hardware and Pocket PC UI came out, it was like "{forehead smack} so that was what MS was trying to do! WOW!" And Palm has been scrambling ever since to do feature catch up in OS5/OS6, and lose 20% marketshare to PPC and other devices in the meantime.
Why do you keep up with this tired old line Scott? Palm has abandoned it for the most part.
|
| |
|
|
|
03-23-2002, 02:27 AM
|
|
Philosopher
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 516
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ed Hansberry
No, I am confusing nothing. You cannot PQA anywhere you want. If someone emails you a URL on your PPC and you tap it, you go to the web page. If they email you a URL on your Palm, you can't do that without a browser to go to the site, unless it is one of the .00000000001% of web sites PQA enabled.
|
Yes, you are confused. There is no such thing as "going to a web site that is PQA-enabled". A PQA is an applet that resides on the Palm OS device. Yes, it interacts with a web site. But that site address would exist strictly for the purpose of communicating with that applet. Try thinking about it more like a scaled down version of creating an application in Visual Basic which has internet hooks which uses that to communicate with a web site which exists strictly for communicating with that Visual Basic application. If I was to point my browser to that web page, I'd get some sort of error. Again, this is task oriented. It is not "surfing".
What you're talking about is "surfing". Is the PPC better for "surfing"? Sure. But it still stinks. I even tried using nyditot with my iPaq (and PCMCIA sleeve and wireless LAN card communicating with my cable modem) in landscape mode and found the experience extremely frustrating. I still found myself having to scroll sideways. Even with my "high speed" connection, things were very slow.
Scott
|
| |
|
|
|
03-23-2002, 02:27 AM
|
|
Pupil
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 41
|
|
Okay, Ed, breathe and repeat after me... "Calm blue ocean, calm blue ocean, calm blue ocean..." 
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ed Hansberry
This is what I was talking about - the same old line...Why do you keep up with this tired old line Scott? Palm has abandoned it for the most part.
|
Ed, why do you keep up with the same old line... Palm can't do this, Palm can't do that, blah blah blah. Most of us already know that Palm can't do this and that, and when they try it fails often.
Instead of writing such a tired rant about Palm, why don't you do what you do best, bring us news and thoughts on the advantages of PPC and its future?
I love this site and the work you guys put into it... when it's PPC oriented. Sure, I love the ribbing and bashing... but this rant was over the top, even for a PPC site.
Just my whine and cheese,
Hans
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Linear Mode
