Dell Working on a VGA Axim?

[Pat Logsdon]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://brighthand.com/article/RumorMill_-_Dell_Developing_VGA_Pocket_PC' target='_blank'>http://brighthand.com/article/Rumor...g_VGA_Pocket_PC</a><br /><br /></div><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/logsdon_20040402_aximvga.jpg" /> <br /><br />According to Brighthand's RumorMill, "Intel is close to releasing the Marathon graphics co-processor, a 3D multimedia accelerator for the XScale line. This will allow devices with very high-resolution screens to render just under one million polygons per second, plus play video in MPEG-2, MPEG-4, and Windows Media formats. <br /><br />Intel did a demonstration of this graphics chip at the CES tradeshow, where a company spoksperson announced that Dell would be using Marathon in an Axim model to be released during the second half of this year. A video of this announcement can be found on Intel's web site. <br /><br />Marathon was created for 640-by-480-pixel displays and up. If it is going to be in a future Axim model, then that model will have a VGA screen."<br /><br />While existing Axim owners are still wondering if they'll be allowed to have WM2003 SE, Dell is apparently working on a device that will take advantage of a feature of the new OS - a VGA screen. The arguments that Brighthand makes are certainly compelling, and I'm inclined to believe that Dell is indeed tinkering with this.<br /><br />Dell's modus operandi seems to be to jump on the bandwagon as a market reaches maturity. If that's the case, I imagine that HP is hard at work on this as well.<br /><br />Personally, I think a VGA screen is just the thing to revitalize Dell's lineup. What do you think? Would a VGA screen make you consider Dell for your next PPC?

[James Fee]

This is an aprils fools joke if I ever saw one.

[drop]

Is it so far fetch that Dell would be working on a VGA Axim? I don't think so. It is a logical next step for Dell.

But if Dell provides new products at the expense of servicing existing customers, then I am not sure my next device will still be a Dell.

[Jacob]

I wouldn't doubt it if all manufacturers are working on VGA models.

[James Fee]

Is it so far fetch that Dell would be working on a VGA Axim? I don't think so. It is a logical next step for Dell.

But if Dell provides new products at the expense of servicing existing customers, then I am not sure my next device will still be a Dell.
Well that sounds upbeat, but I'm not as sure as you are. My next PDA will be an iPAQ. I can't wait 3 years for Dell to release another PDA.

[The Yaz]

I think the real question is this:

Will Dell's pda customer base be more apt to buy the next Dell PocketPC if they are not offered a way to upgrade to 2003SE?

I'm sure someone in marketing figured the allure of VGA would compel some users to make a new purchase, especially if it is true that a new model is in the offering before Christmas 2004.

What concerns me is that pda vendors do not realize that the life cycle for a pda of an average user may be closer to 2-3yrs, not every 12 months. If you try to push these users into new products, they will not budge, and at worst, avoid your product entirely (cough - Toshiba - cough).

I think a more proactive scheme for vendors would be to do whatever they can to extend the life of any of their products (offer rom updates, peripheral drivers as they become needed, etc.) at reasonable prices and market new models with a compare/contrast format. i.e. "The new HP 6000 offers you all of the advantages of the HP 41xx series, but also gives you ..."

That way, you can appease your whole customer base. I would spend up to $100 over the life of my PocketPC if I can have 2-3yrs of service from it. Then when I look at spending $300-400 on a new one, the total cost of ownership seems more reasonable.

Steve 8)

[Howard2k]

Highly unlikely... I've been burned too many times by Dell Canada. Bad service with a VGA screen is still bad service.

[Vincent M Ferrari]

Bluetooth+WiFi+VGA=Me buying another axim.

I love my X5, and am waiting for just the right unit to replace it...

[dmy]

April's fools joke or no....

Bluetooth is indespensible... if it ain't got bluetooth, I'm not buying it.... be it a laptop, phone, or PDA. Dell said it isn't going to have Bluetooth (just as it's finally gaining tread here in the U.S.) so as I said in another thread, "Dude, I ain't getting a Dell!"

And before anyone tells me that Bluetooth isn't useful....

When I walk into my house, my Cell phone and PDA are detected by my desktop, automatically sync'ed with each other and the desktop, and the cell transfers all calls to my desk phone. I don't even see it happen.... it just does.

When I walk into my remote office (I mostly work out of my home office, but occasionally go to my Client's office), it does the same thing, only forwards to my desk phone there and syncs with my laptop (if it's on).

When I leave either location, my Cell-phone un-forwards automatically.

When I get into my car, it realizes it's got access to the hands-free kit. If I turn on my headset and activate it, the headset overrides it.

Always blows people away when I'm in the car and we need to call someone and I tell my PDA to look up a contact, and to dial it on the phone..... everything connects and disconnects just the way it should and a couple of moments later the phone is ringing on the hands free kit. then they suddenly realize that the PDA and the cell phone are in my briefcase in the trunk of the car.

Cheers,
D.

[Foo Fighter]

I hope it's more stylish than the current bland designs. :?

[shawnc]

And before anyone tells me that Bluetooth isn't useful....


Not to get off-topic but, I don't think anyone would dispute that BT is useful. Just that you're level of success seems to be few and far between.

Congratulations, I've got to admit that after reading your post I'm very envious.

[Jonathan1]

*yawns* :sleeping: Can a design get any more boring? :huh: This has to be the poster child of the beige box Pocket PC. I want innovative designs dang it! Then again this is Dell. Even their laptops, while rather feature rich, hardly could be defined as inspirational in design. :frusty:

[JonnoB]

Dell is an OEM buyer of Windows Mobile hardware... they are not designing anything. They may be working with an OEM supplier on defining specifications for future Axims... but 'designing' a device they are not.

The above said, I am sure that any designer/manufacturer of devices has been working on VGA and other types of devices for some time already. Dell will only need to decide on one of the designs and then begin ordering them.

[Pat Logsdon]

This is an aprils fools joke if I ever saw one.
Nope - I think it's true. At 48 minutes into the video on Intel's site, Intel VP and General Manager of the Mobile Platforms Group Anand Chandrasekher said "I'm pleased to announce that Dell has decided that they're going to use Carbonado in the next generation Axim product line, which will be available in the 2nd half of this year."

Also, the Register posted an article (http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/68/36525.html) about the upcoming Marathon/Carbonado chip that corroborates the information in the Brighthand article.

[Swordsman74]

No. After they have seemingly abandoned support for WM2003SE on their X5 and X3 models, I would not buy another PDA from Dell. I plan on keeping my PDA's for more than one year, but I still would like to play with the most recent software - as long as my hardware supports it. Dell seems to expect anyone who bought an X5 or X3 in the last year to just wait until this VGA Axim arrives. Why - so we can be denied an upgrade when WM2004 comes out? No thanks. When I am ready to buy my next PDA, I will look to Asus or HP or even perhaps Toshiba - at least they learned from their mistake.

[dmy]

And before anyone tells me that Bluetooth isn't useful....

Not to get off-topic but, I don't think anyone would dispute that BT is useful. Just that you're level of success seems to be few and far between.
Congratulations, I've got to admit that after reading your post I'm very envious.

Sorry to continue the potential off topic... but I'm just used to people giving me a hard time when I say that I won't buy a device without it. Thank you however for reminding me that I don't get anywhere near as much hassle about it here (on PPCT) as I do on other forums and sites.

And as for the success.... all it takes is a little research to make sure that your device really supports Bluetooth (unlike the Nokia phones that say they do but don't) and a little time to set it up.

Cheers,
D.

[Ed@Brighthand]

This is an aprils fools joke if I ever saw one.
Nope - I think it's true. At 48 minutes into the video on Intel's site, Intel VP and General Manager of the Mobile Platforms Group Anand Chandrasekher said "I'm pleased to announce that Dell has decided that they're going to use Carbonado in the next generation Axim product line, which will be available in the 2nd half of this year."

Also, the Register posted an article (http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/68/36525.html) about the upcoming Marathon/Carbonado chip that corroborates the information in the Brighthand article.

Definitely not an April Fools joke. Pat, I was going to write pretty much the exact same message you did. Thanks for saving me some time.

If I was going to do an April Fool's joke, it would be something like the Palm Pyre that PPCT did: a story that is funny and you know isn't true.

[Howard2k]

April's fools joke or no....

Bluetooth is indespensible... if it ain't got bluetooth, I'm not buying it.... be it a laptop, phone, or PDA. Dell said it isn't going to have Bluetooth (just as it's finally gaining tread here in the U.S.) so as I said in another thread, "Dude, I ain't getting a Dell!"

And before anyone tells me that Bluetooth isn't useful....

When I walk into my house, my Cell phone and PDA are detected by my desktop, automatically sync'ed with each other and the desktop, and the cell transfers all calls to my desk phone. I don't even see it happen.... it just does.

When I walk into my remote office (I mostly work out of my home office, but occasionally go to my Client's office), it does the same thing, only forwards to my desk phone there and syncs with my laptop (if it's on).

When I leave either location, my Cell-phone un-forwards automatically.

When I get into my car, it realizes it's got access to the hands-free kit. If I turn on my headset and activate it, the headset overrides it.

Always blows people away when I'm in the car and we need to call someone and I tell my PDA to look up a contact, and to dial it on the phone..... everything connects and disconnects just the way it should and a couple of moments later the phone is ringing on the hands free kit. then they suddenly realize that the PDA and the cell phone are in my briefcase in the trunk of the car.

Cheers,
D.

Wow! That's how it's supposed to work!

[sesummers]

I can't justify buying a new PDA every year, so I'm hoping my Axim X5 purchased 13 months ago will hold me over until I can get a 640x480 model. But meanwhile, I CAN justify spending $20-$30 for the improved landscape support in PPC2003se.

If Dell will provide me the upgrade, I'll certainly consider buying my next PDA from them. But if they don't, there's NO WAY IN HECK that I'll ever consider buying ANYTHING from them again.

[guinness]

Don't really care, I'm looking real hard at the Asus line as being my next PDA, while Dell's support has been fine, IMO, their handling of WM2003 upgrades hasn't been the best (what should I expect for a budget device, no?).

[James Fee]

Definitely not an April Fools joke. Pat, I was going to write pretty much the exact same message you did. Thanks for saving me some time.

If I was going to do an April Fool's joke, it would be something like the Palm Pyre that PPCT did: a story that is funny and you know isn't true.
I wasn't inferring that your site was doing one, but the fact that Dell would be on the cutting edge of any PDA technology is laughable. Dell has no clue about PDAs. I've heard the stories, but I'll just file them under my X7 file folder.

[huangzhinong]

This is an aprils fools joke if I ever saw one.
Nope - I think it's true. At 48 minutes into the video on Intel's site, Intel VP and General Manager of the Mobile Platforms Group Anand Chandrasekher said "I'm pleased to announce that Dell has decided that they're going to use Carbonado in the next generation Axim product line, which will be available in the 2nd half of this year."

Also, the Register posted an article (http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/68/36525.html) about the upcoming Marathon/Carbonado chip that corroborates the information in the Brighthand article.

Definitely not an April Fools joke. Pat, I was going to write pretty much the exact same message you did. Thanks for saving me some time.

If I was going to do an April Fool's joke, it would be something like the Palm Pyre that PPCT did: a story that is funny and you know isn't true.

Yesterday I still thought ED has NONE sense of humor. Writing a April Fool joke like that? Come on. Fortunately you clarify it today. :D

[Pat Logsdon]

the fact that Dell would be on the cutting edge of any PDA technology is laughable.
That's just it - I don't think Dell needs to be on the cutting edge to put out a VGA unit - I think that ALL of the major players are going to roll them out soon as the new de facto standard.

Intel's two new chips seem to be designed to work together - Bulverde has MMX, and Carbonado is a graphics chip. Combine that with VGA support in WM2003 SE, and consider that Intel is probably pushing these two chips pretty hard on OEMs, and I think a clear picture emerges. VGA is coming, whether we like it or not.

Personally, I like. :mrgreen:

[Mark Johnson]

I can't wait for VGA! The real question for me is can Dell (or anyone) deliver VGA in a unit the size of my iPaq 1910. I want the resolution, but the Toshiba 800 is a brick! The 1910 is the first Pocket PC I could actually fit in my pocket. Think about it. How many of you actually carry your "pocket pc" in your pocket and not in a briefcase, backpack or whatever? Hey Jason! How about a poll on that one? I'd bet that 90% of "Pocket" PC users have to carry theirs around in something other than their pocket.

My job allows me the freedom of being in jeans every day, and living in California means T-Shirts and no jacket too. So anything that won't fit in my jeans front pocket won't do.

I'd buy form Dell though, even though I'd know there would be no upgrade. All the manufacturers have done themselves the disservice of "conditioning" me to assume that whatever I buy will either not be upgradeable or not worth upgrading. So I'm only willing to buy from their "economy" lines. They are slowly turning us all into "budget-model" buyers and the manufacturers will all have to fight each other at the thin-margin end of the pool. That's their own fault. Dell's just very good at large-volume/thin-margin business, so it makes sense my next "disposable" might well be from them. (Good for Dell). However, since I know it will be a dead-end I'm only willing to spend maybe $200-$250 for it (yes, with VGA, BT, WiFi) so they won't make a lot on it. (Bad for Dell).

[mr_Ray]

Personally, I think a VGA screen is just the thing to revitalize Dell's lineup. What do you think? Would a VGA screen make you consider Dell for your next PPC?

Hahahahaha! Being forced at gunpoint couldn't convince me to get a Dell for my next PPC. I'll doubtlessly either get another iPAQ or have a look at Toshiba, who seem to be doing very well lately.

[James Fee]

Personally, I like. :mrgreen:
Well we will see. I just don't see how Dell could get a VGA PPC out before October (in time for Christmas). I just think we are connecting dots that Dell is not. We will see, I'm hopeful, but I doubt I'll have a Dell by the time they get out a new PDA. They are making it easy for me to walk away from Aximsite (http://www.aximsite.com). The effort I have invested try to help people has been hurt by Dell's idiotic sense of order.

[Jonathon Watkins]

*yawns* :sleeping: Can a design get any more boring? :huh: This has to be the poster child of the beige box Pocket PC. I want innovative designs dang it!

I may be mistaken but I believe that is an X3 - for illustration purposes. I don't think that's what the X7 is mean to look like.......

[Jonathon Watkins]

Definitely not an April Fools joke. Pat, I was going to write pretty much the exact same message you did. Thanks for saving me some time.

If I was going to do an April Fool's joke, it would be something like the Palm Pyre that PPCT did: a story that is funny and you know isn't true.

Thanks Ed. Personally I really don't like April fools stories that are too close to the potential truth. For me, there has to be an outrageous part to really make it. As an April fool, this X7 story would not work. We knew there was an X7 in development a while back, plus the specs are fully believable. Where's the 1Ghz processor in this thing? :wink: (Then again, give it two years........)

[JonnoB]

*yawns* :sleeping: Can a design get any more boring? :huh: This has to be the poster child of the beige box Pocket PC. I want innovative designs dang it!

I may be mistaken but I believe that is an X3 - for illustration purposes. I don't think that's what the X7 is mean to look like.......

So far, Dell has not been very inspiring with the X3 and X5 designs. I believe it is assumed the X7 or whatever the next Axim will be is likely to be equally bland. The same is often said about all Dell products. The only real innovation I have seen lately is from Motorola. Holding the MPx in my hands was a dream.

[Jonathon Watkins]

Very well put The Yaz!

I think the real question is this:

Will Dell's pda customer base be more apt to buy the next Dell PocketPC if they are not offered a way to upgrade to 2003SE?

I'm sure someone in marketing figured the allure of VGA would compel some users to make a new purchase, especially if it is true that a new model is in the offering before Christmas 2004.

What concerns me is that pda vendors do not realize that the life cycle for a pda of an average user may be closer to 2-3yrs, not every 12 months. If you try to push these users into new products, they will not budge, and at worst, avoid your product entirely (cough - Toshiba - cough).

I have previously said that I won’t let a manufacture ‘force’ me to upgrade by not providing an OS update. I will upgrade for new hardware – VGA, BT & WiFi, as Vincenzosi said. If Dell don’t let me update my OS, then they will force me into the arms of the competition.

I think a more proactive scheme for vendors would be to do whatever they can to extend the life of any of their products (offer rom updates, peripheral drivers as they become needed, etc.) at reasonable prices and market new models with a compare/contrast format. i.e. "The new HP 6000 offers you all of the advantages of the HP 41xx series, but also gives you ..."

That way, you can appease your whole customer base. I would spend up to $100 over the life of my PocketPC if I can have 2-3yrs of service from it. Then when I look at spending $300-400 on a new one, the total cost of ownership seems more reasonable.

Dell apparently don’t make that much from the units themselves, so I fail to see why they don’t want this alternative revenue stream? I do not see the logic in what they are doing. They could really create some customer loyalty here if they did offer the update for all their devices. But, what goes around comes around……

But if Dell provides new products at the expense of servicing existing customers, then I am not sure my next device will still be a Dell.

Which is also my line at the end of the day. I am happy with my X5. I want to pay Dell to let me upgrade to PPC2003SE to tide me over until I see device I want to move on to. If Dell aren't willing to support their current range by *letting* me *BUY* an upgrade (gee thanks!), then I highly doubt my next PPC will be a Dell.

[Mitch D]

I really do like my X3i and would consider buying another one but there are a few things about Dell Support that bother me. Plus the battery life in
this unit are not what I feel it should be. So to improve on it I could buy the high cap battery but I also require Bluetooth now (just bought a T68i on ebay) and I can't justify spending $300 CAN to upgrade a existing unit when for a $200 more I can buy something like the ASUS A716 with everything I need already in it. Sorry Dell!

[The PocketTV Team]

Who makes this "Marathon" video accelerator ?

Or is that just the code-name for the new Xscale with "wireless-MMX" instructions ?

[Jonathon Watkins]

Who makes this "Marathon" video accelerator ?

Or is that just the code-name for the new Xscale with "wireless-MMX" instructions ?

Intel make it. It is a differnt chip to the new Xscale. This is a dedicated graphics chip. Have a look at this Register article (http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/68/36525.html)

[Will T Smith]

Is it so far fetch that Dell would be working on a VGA Axim? I don't think so. It is a logical next step for Dell.

But if Dell provides new products at the expense of servicing existing customers, then I am not sure my next device will still be a Dell.

It's far-fetched considering that Dell doesn't really design or build PDAs. They spec them out and a third party builds them.

My guess is that the OEMs have VGA PDAs as examples to sell to folks like Dell. Then they comment on it and what they'd like to see at what price.

[Will T Smith]

Very well put The Yaz!

I think the real question is this:

Will Dell's pda customer base be more apt to buy the next Dell PocketPC if they are not offered a way to upgrade to 2003SE?

I'm sure someone in marketing figured the allure of VGA would compel some users to make a new purchase, especially if it is true that a new model is in the offering before Christmas 2004.

What concerns me is that pda vendors do not realize that the life cycle for a pda of an average user may be closer to 2-3yrs, not every 12 months. If you try to push these users into new products, they will not budge, and at worst, avoid your product entirely (cough - Toshiba - cough).

I have previously said that I won’t let a manufacture ‘force’ me to upgrade by not providing an OS update. I will upgrade for new hardware – VGA, BT & WiFi, as Vincenzosi said. If Dell don’t let me update my OS, then they will force me into the arms of the competition.

I think a more proactive scheme for vendors would be to do whatever they can to extend the life of any of their products (offer rom updates, peripheral drivers as they become needed, etc.) at reasonable prices and market new models with a compare/contrast format. i.e. "The new HP 6000 offers you all of the advantages of the HP 41xx series, but also gives you ..."

That way, you can appease your whole customer base. I would spend up to $100 over the life of my PocketPC if I can have 2-3yrs of service from it. Then when I look at spending $300-400 on a new one, the total cost of ownership seems more reasonable.

Dell apparently don’t make that much from the units themselves, so I fail to see why they don’t want this alternative revenue stream? I do not see the logic in what they are doing. They could really create some customer loyalty here if they did offer the update for all their devices. But, what goes around comes around……

But if Dell provides new products at the expense of servicing existing customers, then I am not sure my next device will still be a Dell.

Which is also my line at the end of the day. I am happy with my X5. I want to pay Dell to let me upgrade to PPC2003SE to tide me over until I see device I want to move on to. If Dell aren't willing to support their current range by *letting* me *BUY* an upgrade (gee thanks!), then I highly doubt my next PPC will be a Dell.

I think all the Jornada users who stayed pat are being rewarded. The last two years of hardware really hasn't added much. We've saved our money and now can get our new VGA units ;-)

Hopefully we'll see improvements in pocket excel to go along with the new OS capabilities.

[Jonathon Watkins]

I think all the Jornada users who stayed pat are being rewarded. The last two years of hardware really hasn't added much. We've saved our money and now can get our new VGA units ;-)

Very true actually. Make sure you get one with a flip lid! :wink:

(Hint, hint Dell)
:grumble: (Even if I won't be buying it if you don't support your devices)

Hopefully we'll see improvements in pocket excel to go along with the new OS capabilities.

We can but hope....... :?

[johncruise]

When I walk into my house, my Cell phone and PDA are detected by my desktop, automatically sync'ed with each other and the desktop, and the cell transfers all calls to my desk phone. I don't even see it happen.... it just does.

When I walk into my remote office (I mostly work out of my home office, but occasionally go to my Client's office), it does the same thing, only forwards to my desk phone there and syncs with my laptop (if it's on).

When I leave either location, my Cell-phone un-forwards automatically.

When I get into my car, it realizes it's got access to the hands-free kit. If I turn on my headset and activate it, the headset overrides it.

Always blows people away when I'm in the car and we need to call someone and I tell my PDA to look up a contact, and to dial it on the phone..... everything connects and disconnects just the way it should and a couple of moments later the phone is ringing on the hands free kit. then they suddenly realize that the PDA and the cell phone are in my briefcase in the trunk of the car.


Hmmm... I didn't know that this is even possible. I would be interested to know how you were able to do this. Currently, I have to manually connect my bluetooth devices (phone/pda/pc) except my headset. Specially that first 2 scenario... I betcha I'm not the only one here who wants to know how you did this.

TIA,

John

[dh]

Well I would consider a Dell VGA PPC, but they'll have to beat Asus to market if they want my business.

I've been a happy Axim X5 user for over a year and I still like using it. The X5 really brought something to the market, great spec at sensible price. The newer X3 does nothing for me at all since I'm not interested in an SD only device. I'd get one of the various Ipaqs rather than an X3.

I'm pretty sure what my next PPC will be, VGA, SD + CF, 128MB, WiFi etc. First one to arrive I'll be getting and I'll be all set for another year or so.

Be interesting to see what HP have in mind as well. A 5550 type design with VGA and both card slots would be very nice indeed.

[enemy2k2]

What DMY described is like some sort of futuristic dream world. Pretty sweet setup! I wouldn't doubt dell to be considering a VGA handheld, something's got to replace the X5 - too much overlap with the X3 and it's strange that the 'low' end model has dual slots but the 'higher' end doesn't. Dell's probably holding off on bluetooth until MS builds that in properly themselves. As for slim margins on selling the hardware, I'd doubt they're that slim. Still dumb not to offer upgrades though. Feels like the companies themselves think of PPCs as nothing more than disposeable toys. Which is why I agree that it's only worth it to buy low cost units.

[The PocketTV Team]

Intel make it. It is a differnt chip to the new Xscale. This is a dedicated graphics chip. Have a look at this Register article (http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/68/36525.html)
Interesting, thanks.

[Fishie]

Well I would consider a Dell VGA PPC, but they'll have to beat Asus to market if they want my business.

I've been a happy Axim X5 user for over a year and I still like using it. The X5 really brought something to the market, great spec at sensible price. The newer X3 does nothing for me at all since I'm not interested in an SD only device. I'd get one of the various Ipaqs rather than an X3.

I'm pretty sure what my next PPC will be, VGA, SD + CF, 128MB, WiFi etc. First one to arrive I'll be getting and I'll be all set for another year or so.

Be interesting to see what HP have in mind as well. A 5550 type design with VGA and both card slots would be very nice indeed.

Already exists, its called Toshiba e800/805