Back to the playoffs for a moment

[dh]

What do you all think of the commentators on Fox? I find them really annoying.

The commentators I like best (apart from our local guys doing the Phillies games) are John Miller and Joe Morgan who do the Sunday night ESPN games. Shame ESPN/ABC are not showing these games.

I've noticed that the Miller/Morgan team is doing radio commentory for the playoffs which is much better than what we are getting on TV. What I should do is turn down the TV volume and have the radio for sound. Only problem is my stereo doesn't seem to receive AM signals, I think I need a different antenna.

[Jacob]

I"m not a big fan of them, but they're not as bad as any US hockey commentators...

[JustinGTP]

I sometimes find that they talk too much, as if I need to know what they are doing when I already know eh!

[Janak Parekh]

The commentators I like best (apart from our local guys doing the Phillies games) are John Miller and Joe Morgan who do the Sunday night ESPN games. Shame ESPN/ABC are not showing these games.
8O 8O 8O No! That's not even close to best commentary. Miller/Morgan blow out McCarver & co. any day, but they're far from really good commentators.

If you're ever in our corner of the NE, tune to 880 and listen to a Yankees game with Stiener/Sterling, or take a look at YES with Kay/Kaat, or even listen to Gary Cohen covering Mets games on 660. John Sterling and Michael Kay are amongst the best commentators I've ever heard. I learned much of baseball through them. And they don't talk about meaningless drivel -- they go into the real strategy, statistics, play virtual manager, etc.

Anyway, of all the commentators on Fox, Al Leiter gets my vote. He's a fantastic conversationalist, and he's done a stellar job during the NLCS explaining pitching strategy. I think once he retires he should become a full-time analyst/commentator.

--janak

[dh]

Anyway, of all the commentators on Fox, Al Leiter gets my vote. He's a fantastic conversationalist, and he's done a stellar job during the NLCS explaining pitching strategy. I think once he retires he should become a full-time analyst/commentator.
I was really bitching about TV commentators. Radio ones tend to be better just about all the time. I drive a lot in North Jersey and New England so I listen to the 880 guys quite often and I agree they are good. Nearly as good as the old Radio Three cricket commentators. :D

Al Leiter is for sure the best of the Fox guys. He must be getting pretty close to hanging up his glove and he certainly could make it in broadcasting. This guy they have today, Brett Boone, is not too impressive.

I see Boston have scored so it's back to the game.

[Mark Kenepp]

Everybody loves their local guys, or should.

John Miller is great especially when teamed up with Mike Krukow he on the Giants' Television Network. Of course the best are Duane Kuiper and Mike Krukow.

Though it has been close to 10 years since I heard them, the two guys who did the Penguin Hockey Network were the best I ever heard.

I do think that much is lost with the national broadcasters.

[Janak Parekh]

Al Leiter is for sure the best of the Fox guys. He must be getting pretty close to hanging up his glove and he certainly could make it in broadcasting. This guy they have today, Brett Boone, is not too impressive.
Boone is doing the ALCS, while Al was doing the NLCS. Bret is a smart guy, but I don't think he has a presence at the microphone. I learned that Aaron's Boone nickname was "Arnie", but that was about it. :lol:

I see Boston have scored so it's back to the game.
Well... at this rate I'll be on the sidelines very shortly too. ;)

--janak

[Kati Compton]

I like Steve Stone. :)

He and Chip Carey make a good team.

[doogald]

If you're ever in our corner of the NE, tune to 880 and listen to a Yankees game with Stiener/Sterling, or take a look at YES with Kay/Kaat, or even listen to Gary Cohen covering Mets games on 660. John Sterling and Michael Kay are amongst the best commentators I've ever heard. I learned much of baseball through them. And they don't talk about meaningless drivel -- they go into the real strategy, statistics, play virtual manager, etc.


Oh, you have GOT to be kidding! Honestly, John Sterling is easily the WORST baseball commentator I have ever heard, especially with that terrible affectation ("the..... pitch...."). He is a homer, one of the worst I have heard - and I grew up listening to Frank Messer, Phil Rizzuto, and Ralph Kiner. Michael Kay does not seem to know all that much about baseball either. Charlie Steiner being added to that booth improved it 1000% (yes, because it was 10 times worse than it ever should have been).

Jon Miller is a very good baseball announcer. Especially compared with Sterling and Kay :roll:

[Janak Parekh]

Oh, you have GOT to be kidding! Honestly, John Sterling is easily the WORST baseball commentator I have ever heard, especially with that terrible affectation ("the..... pitch....").
I agree that Sterling's antics aren't always the best, but I guess you have different tastes than I. ;) I know a lot of people here who mute the ESPN or FOX game and listen to 880 instead (and used to listen to 770).

and I grew up listening to Frank Messer, Phil Rizzuto, and Ralph Kiner.
Well, I can't compare against you there by any stretch.

Charlie Steiner being added to that booth improved it 1000% (yes, because it was 10 times worse than it ever should have been).
Hah! I thought it made it 10 times worse -- I can't count the number of times he calls the pitch and the play about 3 seconds after it's already happened. Go figure. :razzing: I didn't realize announcers were so personal, but I guess they are.

Do you agree with me on my assessment of McCarver, at least? My "favorite" quote of his during the playoffs so far was McCarver saying "You better bet your mobile home that Soriano will run on this next pitch." Mobile home? Huh? And, by the way, he didn't run. ;)

--janak

[doogald]

Do you agree with me on my assessment of McCarver, at least? My "favorite" quote of his during the playoffs so far was McCarver saying "You better bet your mobile home that Soriano will run on this next pitch." Mobile home? Huh? And, by the way, he didn't run. ;)


Oh, absolutely. McCarver is not only one of the worst color announcers, I think that he is the worst on TV. Certainly on the networks. Ever.

He had a great one last night, talking about how Rivera had thrown 5 consecutive inside pitches to start the ninth. He throws the next pitch, clearly out over the plate, then McCarver says, "sixth".

My favorite was when he said that the Yankees should move Soriano to center field. The Yankees have arguably the best second baseman in baseball today, he is young, with power, great speed. They will never find a second baseman who hits like that with his range at second. Well, maybe they will, but I doubt that they will.

What's worse, moving him to center means moving Williams or Matsui to right, and my guess is that the Yankees would be better with Garcia/Rivera/Denucci/whoever they can buy as a free agent (Vladimir Guerrero?) in right than whoever they have in the minors or can buy as a free agent at second (?).

[Janak Parekh]

Oh, absolutely. McCarver is not only one of the worst color announcers, I think that he is the worst on TV. Certainly on the networks. Ever.
OK, we agree on something. :D

My favorite was when he said that the Yankees should move Soriano to center field. The Yankees have arguably the best second baseman in baseball today, he is young, with power, great speed. They will never find a second baseman who hits like that with his range at second. Well, maybe they will, but I doubt that they will.
Moreover, Soriano's instincts are in the infield. He has the talent to play the outfield, but why do that when you have no obvious replacement in the infield? Are you going to move Boone to 2nd and put Henson at 3rd?

What's worse, moving him to center means moving Williams or Matsui to right, and my guess is that the Yankees would be better with Garcia/Rivera/Denucci/whoever they can buy as a free agent (Vladimir Guerrero?) in right than whoever they have in the minors or can buy as a free agent at second (?).
Hahahaha. Let's not talk about the offseason yet. As a Yankees fan, I'd love to see Guerrero come to NY, but quite frankly, the Expos are his home, he fits perfectly on that team, and I hope MLB isn't shortsighted enough to prevent the Expos from resigning him. It would truly destroy what was once a great franchise and a team that still has the potential to win and win big. I think big kudos are deserved of Frank Robinson for his superb managing; he was a huge step up from "overpitching" Torborg.

--janak

[doogald]

As a Yankees fan...

See? I'm a Red Sox fan, though I love baseball in a general sense. I find it hard to believe that there it is possible to like John Sterling unless you are a Yankees fan.

To me the perfect play-by-play announcer on radio does nothing more than tell me the count, what sort of pitch it is, a description of the action, and perhaps a description of the things that I cannot see - the outfield shaded to left, the infield at double-play depth, the third baseman playing the line, who's warming up in the bullpen. In short, I just need a guy to tell me things that I cannot see. I don't need a guy to try to predict tactics and strategy. That's what the "color guy"/analyst is supposed to do, and he should be mostly quiet. Brett Boone and Al Leiter both did this very well, I might addm in the games that I saw. McCarver talked way too much and, as always, was often wrong; Buck is about a quarter of what his father was. His father did all of those things that I listed very, very well.

In my humble opinion. ;)

[Janak Parekh]

See? I'm a Red Sox fan, though I love baseball in a general sense. I find it hard to believe that there it is possible to like John Sterling unless you are a Yankees fan.
Ah. That does explain things. You must find Sterling's tendency to say "Thuhuhuhuhuhuh Yankees win" infinitely irritating, and if I was a Red Sox fan, I'd hate it too. :razzing:

To me the perfect play-by-play announcer on radio does nothing more than tell me the count, what sort of pitch it is, a description of the action, and perhaps a description of the things that I cannot see - the outfield shaded to left, the infield at double-play depth, the third baseman playing the line, who's warming up in the bullpen.
Well, I don't know if you've watched Kay on YES, but this is almost exactly what he does now. He used to be a lot more verbose on WABC. I like some analysis if the commentator knows what they're doing. A lot of them (like McCarver) don't, and then they bungle the calls, and that irritates me greatly too. IMHO, Sterling manages to stay out of the way of the call but can fill the air with useful information. Your opinion might differ, and that's OK. In light of what you're saying, I can see Miller being OK... but I'm surprised you like Morgan's analysis -- while it's not as bad as McCarver's, I don't find it very useful at all.

Brett Boone and Al Leiter both did this very well, I might addm in the games that I saw.
I found Bret a little too light on the analysis. I agree with you Leiter did good. When the pitchers were struggling, he had a fantastic insight into the mental aspects of the game, and you know he knows what he's talking about, because he was a mediocre lefty until his 30s and when he finally learned how to pitch.

In my humble opinion. ;)
Well, we all have our opinions. :D Are you in the "Little should be run out of town" camp? I really, honestly think the Red Sox should have won Game 7 -- they played quite a bit better than the Yankees, all around, in the game.

--janak

[dh]

Are you in the "Little should be run out of town" camp? I really, honestly think the Red Sox should have won Game 7 -- they played quite a bit better than the Yankees, all around, in the game.
I'm certainly in the "Little should be run out of town" camp. To run a top club needs experience and what was this guy? a bench coach for crying out loud. I can't believe he was the best the RedSox could find.

A good manager really can make the difference between winning and losing, regardless of how much money is available to be spent.

Torre is obviously a good example, the Yankees were going nowhere fast until they hired him. He was smart enough to know when to get Clemons out of there while Little kept Martinez too long. Others that have turned clubs around are the Montreal guy and what about the old geezer they hired in Florida?

Little is way up there on the annoying list with Bobby Valentine and the incoherent idiot we have in Philly - although to be fair, Bowa does seem to know a bit about the game. He just has zero people skills.

[famousdavis]

...and what about the old geezer they hired in Florida?

Cheeky! :devilboy:

[doogald]

Ah. That does explain things. You must find Sterling's tendency to say "Thuhuhuhuhuhuh Yankees win" infinitely irritating, and if I was a Red Sox fan, I'd hate it too. :razzing:


No, trust me; it's the "the.... pitch" that drives me crazy. Even my wife can't stand him, and he is much less opinionated about these things than I am.

... but I'm surprised you like Morgan's analysis -- while it's not as bad as McCarver's, I don't find it very useful at all.

Well, I think that Morgan is not bad, not good. He's ok.

Jim Kaat is a good color guy. Tony Kubek was great.

Well, we all have our opinions. :D Are you in the "Little should be run out of town" camp? I really, honestly think the Red Sox should have won Game 7 -- they played quite a bit better than the Yankees, all around, in the game.


Actually, no. He made a decision, and I really did think that it was a bad one at the time - in fact, Pedro should never have been in in the eighth at all, but first baserunner should have been the hook. But it was a risk, a bad decision. I don't see many Yankee fans screaming for Torre's head after walking Varitek in game 6. I don't see many Yankee fans calling for his head for bringing in Wells against Ortiz last night. Both turned out to be as bad as the "leave Pedro in" decision.

It's not that I think that Little is a great manager - he is not - but I cannot support firing one of the four managers who have one 90 games in the last two years (Torre, Cox, Little and Gardenhire - though the Giants, Mariners and A's did it with two different managers).

Ken Macha would have been a better choice. The current AAA manager in Pawtucket, Buddy Bell, may also be better. But Little was able to get career years out of a bunch of guys (Mueller, Ortiz, Walker, maybe Millar) this year. Hard to complain about that.

(Well, alright; Fenway explains a lot of that...)

[Janak Parekh]

No, trust me; it's the "the.... pitch" that drives me crazy. Even my wife can't stand him, and he is much less opinionated about these things than I am.
OK, I know what you mean. I guess it just doesn't bother me.

I don't see many Yankee fans screaming for Torre's head after walking Varitek in game 6. I don't see many Yankee fans calling for his head for bringing in Wells against Ortiz last night. Both turned out to be as bad as the "leave Pedro in" decision.
Except... that the Yankees won. If they didn't, who knows what Steinbrenner would have done.

I don't mind Little all that much, actually. I think his relaxed managing has worked well with the set of professional hitters the Red Sox are. Like most people, I wouldn't have left Pedro in; on the other hand, if he had pulled through, everyone would have been saying what a brilliant move it was.

(Well, alright; Fenway explains a lot of that...)
For Mueller, yes. But even he is a professional hitter overall -- he hit decently with the Giants and Cubs. I'd say the Red Sox just have a very good offense... except for Garciaparra's troubling slump the last few months. The Green Monster doesn't really inflate home run counts, yet you had 7? 8? people in the lineup who hit at least 20 home runs this year. That means something.

--janak

[doogald]

I don't see many Yankee fans screaming for Torre's head after walking Varitek in game 6. I don't see many Yankee fans calling for his head for bringing in Wells against Ortiz last night. Both turned out to be as bad as the "leave Pedro in" decision.
Except... that the Yankees won. If they didn't, who knows what Steinbrenner would have done.

I don't mind Little all that much, actually. I think his relaxed managing has worked well with the set of professional hitters the Red Sox are. Like most people, I wouldn't have left Pedro in; on the other hand, if he had pulled through, everyone would have been saying what a brilliant move it was.

Actually, the more that I think about this, the more angry I get at the "fire Little" folks around here.

As you say,

Except... that the Yankees won.

If the Red Sox had managed to win after the Yankees tied it up instead of the other way around, would everybody still be calling for Little to be fired? Well, some would, but most would be deliriously happy. The decision was still just as bad a decision, wasn't it? If the decision was so bad that it should get him fired, then he should get fired regardless of the final result.

I have been watching the Sox up here for many years now and this was easily the first time that I can remember that the Sox actually had a team that played as a team - (almost) 25 guys who all worked together, instead of the traditional "25 guys, 25 cabs". I still think that the Sox did much better than I expected they would do back in April. He took the "closer by committee" idiocy, struggled with it, and still brought his team into extra innings in game 7 in Yankee Stadium in the ALCS. In short, Little did a remarkable job this year. He made one bad decision in the last game of the year. How about all of the other decisions that he made in the other 173 games?

I think it's silly, really.

By the way, who exactly is available to take his place who can do a better job?

Kudos to Pedro, by the way, for saying that it was the players who played the game and who didn't get the job done, rather than any bad decisions by the manager. I was hard on Pedro after game 3 but now I feel a bit better about him.

[Janak Parekh]

By the way, who exactly is available to take his place who can do a better job?
Bobby Valentine? :lol:

Kudos to Pedro, by the way, for saying that it was the players who played the game and who didn't get the job done, rather than any bad decisions by the manager. I was hard on Pedro after game 3 but now I feel a bit better about him.
Agreed, a little. He was a punk in game 3, but faced up to the situation after game 7.

--janak

[dh]

The old geezer at the Marlins must be happy they are not playing the RedSox. He might have been the next victim of Martinez violence against seniors.

Looking forward to Game 2 tonight.