Sendo Abandons Microsoft Smartphone in Favor of Nokia

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://www.sendo.com">http://www.sendo.com</a><br /><br />Just weeks before launching the Z100 running Smartphone 2002, Yahoo is reporting that Sendo has dropped the Microsoft platform in favor of the Nokia Series 60 software. "LONDON (Reuters) - British mobile phone maker Sendo said on Thursday it had abandoned a long-awaited Microsoft-based phone and chosen to go with Nokia (news - web sites)'s rival software instead. Despite having been one of the launching partners for the Microsoft Smartphone program, Chief Executive Hugh Brogan said Sendo had given up on the Z100 Smartphone, which had been due for launch within weeks. "There will not be products based on Microsoft. There is not going to be a Z100," Brogan said."<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/2002/20021107-nosendo.jpg" /><br /><br />One if the reasons was the ability to customize the phone. "Brogan said one reason for the switch was that Sendo could get access to the source code for Nokia software, and therefore customize products. It could not do that with Microsoft." This can't be good for Microsoft. The Smartphone 2002 platform has been delayed quite a few times and was nearing launch in the next few weeks. <a href="http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=569&ncid=738&e=1&u=/nm/20021107/tc_nm/telecoms_sendo_nokia_dc">Yahoo has more info here.</a><br /><br />Source: gwinter

[Marc Zimmermann]

Maybe they were also a bit ****ed by the fact that Microsoft actively promoted the Compal and HTC devices and Sendo not being a prominent key player anymore.

Very sad news, indeed.

[Jonathon Watkins]

The Inq suggests that Sendo was not happy with the stability of the MS SW:

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=6125
Sendo dumps Microsoft for Symbian
It wants robust software

Instead, Sendo said it has licensed Nokia's Series 60 platform for its smart phones.

Why? Because "the platform utilises open standards and technologies, such as MMS and Java, jointly developed by the industry," said Hugh Brogan, MD of the company.

Further, it's "robust, and uniquely flexible," he said. Rather implying that Microsoft's software isn't.

[JMountford]

All I have to say is hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Another fine Microsoft release!

That's gotta sting.

[Rafe]

Join the Symbian party over at http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=25006#25006

Seriously as a Symbian support I wondering what you guys think of this? How big an effect will it have in your opinion? I mean this has to be a knock back for Microsoft right. Its not going to inspire confidence in the corporates that the SPV is aimed at.

Dropping a device so close to release there has to be some issues with it?

rafe

[Paragon]

When you really think about this, it's simply one player who has had delay after delay in releasing their product. HTC seemed to have put it together quite well. My understanding is that HTC's device runs pretty stable, and it's a great little device.

I'm willing to bet that when they got a drift of what Orange was going to sell their device for it must have been a hug shock, since Sendo's developer models cost in the area of $700.00 CND.

Ya, it doesn't look all that great to see them drop it, but they are one player, and they didn't even have a device ready for market. If HTC hadn't released a product I think it would be a much different story. There will be other players in the Smartphone market down the road.

Dave

[Andy Sjostrom]

I have yet to find out what's really going on here, but if it is all true:

Stupid move by Sendo. They'll eventually come to regret it sorely. Of course, it is a set back. But who seriously believes that Microsoft (products, strategies) will be affected by a small British phone maker? Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that Sendo is insignificant or would not have a played an important role from a Microsoft standpoint if they'd stayed on track with Z100. I am just saying that Microsoft would never solely rely on one small player to make really big things happen.

In my opinion, we are back in the late eighties. Some companies went with Microsoft, and some didn't. Which companies were most successful?

[PlayAgain?]

Maybe Microsoft is going to be to consumer communications what IBM has become to personal computing.

[enemy2k2]

I was disappointed when Psion pulled out of the PDA market but am relieved that the underlying OS is still quite active in the smartphone race. Personally I think it's a good thing for MS to have competition. Whatever happens I think Smartphone 2k2 will eventually be the top player in the US smartphone market, maybe along with Palm OS phones. All I know is that the smartphone market is going to be the most interesting in terms of innovation/interesting products for the next long while. Should be fun to watch.

[heliod]

As Andy, I think they will regret this move at some time.

In my point of view, everything got together against them, their difficulty on releasing a stable device while HTC and Orange did, the fact that they expected to be quite sole in the market and were not, and at the end the noise of the release of the Nokia phone and the price which is impossible for such a small company.

I don't believe this will hurt the Smartphone platform at all. With the Orange phone out, the Samsung phone beginning to roll, HTC products, and others to come, Sendo will hardly make a difference.

And I also try to guess what difference they will make in the Symbian phone market.... something more than none at all???

Your guesses, please.

[st63z]

I do really wish MS SmartPhone would support existing standards, the top two being Java (J2ME) and Bluetooth, as well as MMS...

[Inaki C]

In the Smartphone developers comunity Sendo was regarded as very incompetent in several sides: scarce knowledge of the platform, bizarre behaviour towards developers, absolute lack of seriousness.
We have even diiscussed at some time the continuity of Sendo activities at all.

The decision is strange. I think there is something behind they have not told us. I suspect it has something to do with money. Perhaps they wanted more investment by the side of MS or there have been some royalties disagreement. I bet Nokia has offered better economic conditions than MS.

As a developer. With regards to Symbian and the 60 Nokia platform. I cannot see where is that supposed rock solid operating system. Not to mention that the SDK is pathetic to say the least. Metrowerks Codewarrior on the other hand is not for weekend programers. I have been working with Symbian since Psion versions. It is a fair good operating system, with good and bad points. The lack of GUI standard has been a crux for developers. Now it is even worse after Symbian support group announced no standard GUI will be added to the platform in the future.
To be honest I don't see the point in comparing it with Pocket PC or MS Smartphone. The only reason I can see to chose Symbian right now is cost: you need a less powerful machine which means it may be cheaper; you may need to pay less to OS owner.

[Oliver T]

Well, according to the corresponding yahoo article http://uk.news.yahoo.com/021107/152/de4ta.html it was more the fact that Sendo wanted to include Java functionality instead of .NET. Maybe MS wanted to force them not to implement any Java in the Z100 ?

Cheers,

Oliver

[fmcpherson]

Didn't Microsoft invest a huge amount of money into Sendo? At one time it looked as though Sendo was going to be the only supplier for SmartPhone 2002. I think they were also slated to be the first supplier for US versions of SmartPhone 2002 via a deal with Cingular Wireless. My guess this means that deal is off, and perhaps the first SmartPhone we'll see in the U.S. will be a Samsung.

[Ed Hansberry]

Didn't Microsoft invest a huge amount of money into Sendo?
Huge for Sendo, not for MS. More at http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t269-s2125538,00.html:

[kennyg]

I guess my NDA is worthless now.

I've been using and developing for the Smartphone for over a month now and the software stability is very good, only locked it up twice and that was my problem. The hardware itself will sometimes spontaniously reset when docked in it craddle, but I see that as a hardware issue.

The z100 isn't nearly as nice as the SPV, I think they are more worried about being seriously undercut but HTC and Samsung or couldn't get anyone network vendor to buy their hardware over these two.

I've been showing this thing around for the last month and I have at least 30 people waiting to buy one, most aren't even PDA users!

Oh well, small company gitters I guess.

[handheldplanet]

THIS ABSOLUTELY ****ES ME OFF!

My company developed a KILLER case for the device, and now we'll never be able to sell it - this is after spending big bucks to get a development device and do all the development. Unfortunately, our case won't work with other Smartphones since it's device-specific - so I feel a little more put out then the software developers probably feel.

My guess as to why...
I'm betting they lost a harware contract with Cingular that they really expected to come through. I'm guessing that HTC jumped into the picture with a better product at a better price and that's more readily available.

Anyone want to buy a Z100?

[kennyg]

I've got one that I use regularly, want to get rid of a case? ;)

Some of the articles state that they might run the Nokia OS on the same device, so maybe you can get something back... Oh course they won't be able to sell any with that crappy OS :P

[avoglio]

I have yet to find out what's really going on here, but if it is all true:

Stupid move by Sendo. They'll eventually come to regret it sorely. Of course, it is a set back. But who seriously believes that Microsoft (products, strategies) will be affected by a small British phone maker? Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that Sendo is insignificant or would not have a played an important role from a Microsoft standpoint if they'd stayed on track with Z100. I am just saying that Microsoft would never solely rely on one small player to make really big things happen.


Ask the question the other way round ? Which Phonemaker is producing with MS software anymore ? Almost none, at least none of the important.
Nokia
SonyEricsson
Siemens
and many other use Symbian by now.


In my opinion, we are back in the late eighties. Some companies went with Microsoft, and some didn't. Which companies were most successful?

Right, a question of power. But since all major phone producers use Symbian, even Microsoft has a hard way to establish anything against it. If you show us the example of the 80's regarding OS, I ask you who is playing X-BOX today - even though MS has dropped the price 3 times .. :wink:

BTW: Wasn't there somebody writing about Symbian as a dead OS or something recently ? :lol:

MS will only be successful by concentrating on PDAs with phone cabability. Let the Phones with PDA capability do somebody else..

[mememe]

I have yet to find out what's really going on here, but if it is all true:

Stupid move by Sendo. They'll eventually come to regret it sorely... I am not saying that Sendo is insignificant or would not have a played an important role from a Microsoft standpoint if they'd stayed on track with Z100 (sure sounds like you are). I am just saying that Microsoft would never solely rely on one small player to make really big things happen.

In my opinion, we are back in the late eighties. Some companies went with Microsoft, and some didn't. Which companies were most successful?

These comments remind me of scenes from the original Star Wars Trilogy were Darth Vader is talking to the Emperor... Remember that the Rebel Alliance eventually wins.

[Ed Hansberry]

THIS ABSOLUTELY ****ES ME OFF!

My company developed a KILLER case for the device, and now we'll never be able to sell it - this is after spending big bucks to get a development device and do all the development. Unfortunately, our case won't work with other Smartphones since it's device-specific - so I feel a little more put out then the software developers probably feel.
Is it possible they will relaunch the Z100 with a new name and the symbian OS in it? They invested quite a bit in tooling. I doubt they will be quick to trash it.

[ThomasC22]

I'm not sure it's all that fair to attack Sendo here. First, I don't believe any of the outside forces that you mention could have caused them to drop the platform, because even if they weren't expecting Orange or Samsung, it's still a lot easier to compete against Orange and Samsung than it is to compete against Nokia, Sony-Ericson, et al.

Second, As far as the slander of their device, I would point out that most people were calling it an engineering marvel not too long ago (being it was the only smartphone they could get their hands on) and Microsoft was so impressed they did invest money in the company.

As for why they did drop the platform, I strongly suspect people are reading too much into this. It's a very dangerous stance for a small cell. phone manufacturer to support a minority OS because when you're trying to sell your device to TelCo's they ask "Does it support J2ME?", etc... and even if .NET is a better platform it's a "good luck telling the TelCos that" situation.

I think Sendo found many companies weren't picking up their device because it didn't fit their "feature wish list" and decided to make as quick a switch as they could.

Plus, let's face it, the Smartphone2k2's batter is going to be won or lost with Orange and Samsung anyway.

[werty]

Ask the question the other way round ? Which Phonemaker is producing with MS software anymore ? Almost none, at least none of the important.

Samsung isn't important?


I ask you who is playing X-BOX today - even though MS has dropped the price 3 times..

I do.

[werty]

Previously Sendo had adventage of using Smart Phone 2002.
How can Sendo now compete with Nokia, Panasonic, Siemens...

[mookie123]

....
To be honest I don't see the point in comparing it with Pocket PC or MS Smartphone. The only reason I can see to chose Symbian right now is cost: you need a less powerful machine which means it may be cheaper; you may need to pay less to OS owner.

But I think microsoft is right on this point. Bet that hardware cost will go down fast so it can support targetted OS feature. Plotting good long term OS strategy is slower than the pace of hardware progress.

Microsoft were betting this with PDA. they smack big OS that no cheap CPU can handle in the '98, but by now........it's $199 Dell PDA. And Palm is having trouble adapting their OS for the advance CPU.

If symbian OS cannot provide a solid uniform platform across all those phones. It would be just another embedded OS that comes and goes along with fashionable phones. It won't become a true computing environment people will put long term software invesment.

...but than again.....maybe smartphone is just that........
The fashionable Nike sneaker for the 21st century, instead of pocketable computer.

But the battle has just begun, and Microsoft has 40B in cash. Heck that's probably enough money to buy a phone manufacturer and purchase an airwave license. If microsoft ego is big enough, they might pull this off.

or probably just buy out Nokia.... heh heh.

[XIII]

Where did you see HTC/Orange SPV is stable ?
Reality sometime is not in a Launch Event and manager quotes...
:wink:

[denethor]

[quote="PDA Gerbil"]The Inq suggests that Sendo was not happy with the stability of the MS SW:

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=6125
Sendo dumps Microsoft for Symbian
It wants robust software

[quote]
What!! I' ve used both 9210 and 7650 for a while. That OS is most unstable OS that i ever see since Win95! You need a reboot scheduler application!
9210s internal browser is total s**t; it can not handle WEB pages over 100K, no jsp, poor memory management. In 7650 -it means series 60- there is no WEB browser only WAP (Total disappointment in a mobil world=WAP)
I think Sendo failed because for poor H/W design due to their uncapable engineers -sorry-

[Timothy Rapson]

HA, HA, HA, HA!

[sponge]

I say good. While this one move won't make a change, the publicity may do something, and it shows MS, consumers, and vendors, that there are other choices.

Symbian isn't #3 on MS' list (IIRC) for no reason.

[nwarren]

I've got to agree with the 'bad news for Sendo' camp. I guess they've made the best business decision they thought they could, but I don't figure they'll be a long term proposition now. The only thing distintive about them was their Smartphone support.

It's a small dent for MS, but I don't suppose they're anything but a little miffed, and they're not going to let this slow down their phone plans.

On the Symbian front, I've been using the 7650 for a month or so, and found it generally pretty poor to use - I don't know what iteration the o/s is on, but I constantly find myself hitting the wrong button, or trawling manually for a feature. Plus the data synchronisation is dreadful, slow a pain to configure and buggy.

The Palm platform originally made a big hit because it was simple AND because it had the simplest data sync on the market.

People now want more from their phones, so the Smartphone will make it because it's a platform that is familar, easy to use and navigate and the data synchronisation will be simple - and if there's any doubt, then it's got MS marketing behind it, and the phone market is very important to them in the future...they won't lose, it might take a couple of versions to really sell but it WILL happen.

[someppcuser]

I certainly don't want a phone that is as unstable as my ipaq.
Phones are nice for games, as for real apps (no calculator), a 3.5" screen is the minimum.
Microsoft= no source code and its own technology = bad for phones which needs customization based on standards.

Sendo has a brighter future with Symbian even if they're small compared to Nokia. They may very well fail, but it would be their own fault not MS' one, making promises it won't hold.

MS will eventually get some market shares (they need at least 3 attempts), but by that time, the market will be different and Sendo could then design phones for that platform if they still exist.

The 60 series has everything the average consumers needs right now. MS is just trying to push its techs to users who don't really need it.

I think it's a good blow for MS. It won't stop them that's for sure. I'd hate to live in an MS world.

[krisbrown]

Even though I'm no fan of anything Micr@s@ft, I really did think there's would be the winner in Smartphones, but now I'm starting to think Nokia might be onto something, the phones are very popular and highly respected, where as to most people Microsoft just means pulling your hair out trying to get their goddam awful OS to install that latest driver.
And don't spout XP or I never have any problems to me, I'm seen as a bit of a computer whizz in work and every day I get people at the end of their tether begging me for help with hardware or software that won't install, Xp or not.
Nokia are producing cheap ,really useful gadgets, that aren't seen as geeky, the OS and the GUI they use will just be accepted by the masses and Mircoshaft may find themselves forgotten in the small/phone/pda/camera/mp3/organiser player all in one device area.

[ThomasC22]

Even though I'm no fan of anything Micr@s@ft, I really did think there's would be the winner in Smartphones, but now I'm starting to think Nokia might be onto something, the phones are very popular and highly respected, where as to most people Microsoft just means pulling your hair out trying to get their goddam awful OS to install that latest driver.


It's a little something I call Sony syndrome, that's the problem. Most of the US based people assume that Microsoft will just beat any company that tries to challenge them, and there is some merit to that. Microsoft has a great, albeit vicious, corporate culture and I that is certainly why they managed to beat a whole industry of other companies.

BUT, what you have to remember is that, Microsoft is king of the hill here in the U.S. but Sony has had the same success in Japan and has been doing it for longer.

Same thing with Nokia, Nokia is a company that has entered markets that are as diverse as you can get (did you know Nokia started as a lumber and Paper company?) and has managed to conquer those markets every time. Nokia actually, in many peoples view, saved an entire country from economic ruin.

I for one wouldn't count them out...

[marauderz]

Well... I'm not well versed in Java, but AFAIK isn't J2ME just a runtime enviroment? Unless you happen to tell me there's a J2ME for Nokia 3xxx, J2ME for Sony Erricson T68i, etc. etc. &lt;-Then again wouldn't this break the write once run anywhere paradigm?

So wouldn't it be possible to just install a runtime... granted that'd be a third party add on but still. After all if I remember correctly there're already J2ME and J2PE runtimes for the Pocket PC right?

[Landis]

So wouldn't it be possible to just install a runtime... granted that'd be a third party add on but still. After all if I remember correctly there're already J2ME and J2PE runtimes for the Pocket PC right?

The Z100's spec sheet included J2ME support. Yes, J2ME is a Java virtual machine. Trouble is, programmers have trouble getting their J2ME games to look and work the same on TWO different devices let alone EVERY J2ME phone. Plus you have the inefficiency of working on top of a runtime layer. Far as I've seen, any game worth playing on a phone has been compiled to run natively on that specific device.

I can't believe Sendo would abandon MS Smartphone for lack of J2ME support since it doesn't look like it will ever deliver it's promise of "Program once, run anywhere"

I think Sendo, after countless well publicized delays, was humiliated by HTC's SPV relatively quick launch. It's easier to throw in the towel than having to keep explaining their failure.

[Certified Optimist]

ThomasC22 wrote:

"did you know Nokia started as a lumber and Paper company?)"

Sure do. They also manufactured Wellington boots. Still have a pair somewhere in the basement. Quite stylish! :D

[krisbrown]

They made the boots for the Russian army, and you can still buy their car tyres.

[DubWireless]

Microsoft Corporation comments on Sendo's decision to cancel its Windows Powered smartphone.

http://www.thefeature.com/article.jsp?pageid=24609

[ThomasC22]

Microsoft Corporation comments on Sendo's decision to cancel its Windows Powered smartphone.

http://www.thefeature.com/article.jsp?pageid=24609

Well, lets face it, there was very little else they could say. I loved the Java dodge though ("cell phone manufactures can use it if they want but they'd be stupid to actually use it cause it doesn't work")

I was also a little surprised that they didn't come out for IM over MMS but I guess that is in large part to keep from offending the European crowd who are pretty attached to MMS.

My favorite part though was still the very obvious (in my mind) allusion that Sendo was not being completely honest and that they had enough access to the source code to make things work.

[Janak Parekh]

Well, lets face it, there was very little else they could say. I loved the Java dodge though ("cell phone manufactures can use it if they want but they'd be stupid to actually use it cause it doesn't work")
I dunno, I think he was pretty decent in handling J2ME, certainly more so than Ballmer. I've seen several reviews of phones where the screen-resolution problem for J2ME apps was pretty severe.

--bdj