06-09-2003, 03:30 PM
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Sage
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 734
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"Keyboarding killed the penmanship star"
I was reading USA Today on Avantgo today, and came across an interesting article:
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/20...-cursive_x.htm
It's called "Keyboarding killed the penmanship star" and it is about the decline of penmanship skills in the modern computer age, especially in schools.
"Computers are better," (..) "With typing, you don't have to erase when you make a mistake. You just hit delete, so it's a lot easier."
Such attitudes worry a growing number of parents, educators and historians, who fear that computers are speeding the demise of a uniquely American form of expression. Handwriting experts say the wild popularity of e-mail, instant messages and other electronic communication, particularly among kids, could erase cursive within a few decades.
Not surprising!
Although there are few studies of cursive styles, some teachers and enthusiasts have estimated that at least 7% of third graders are using Italic, whose printed letters are "semi-connected" with small tails. Students don't slant their notebooks much to write Italic.
The rise of Italic alarms handwriting aficionados, who say cursive could become a lost art within a generation or two
I believe them. I can't write worth a damn these days. My handwriting looks like palm Grafitti written by someone with severe Parkinson's disease. I haven't written proper cursive since 1995..
Michael Sull, a 54-year-old artist in Overland Park, Kan., says today's third graders have not developed proper forearm and hand musculature, seated posture or mental discipline for cursive. The former president of the International Association of Master Penmen, Engrossers and Teachers of Handwriting says keyboards, joysticks and cell phone touch pads have ruined kids' ability to hold a pencil properly, let alone write legibly
How right you are, Mr. Sull. I haven't used a pen in *five years* except to sign for a package.. Ever since I use the laptop and got the Palm, I haven't touched a pen. In fact, I do not even *own* a single pen or pencil. The only semblance of writing is using Grafitti on Palm or my PPC's Block Recognizer, which isn't exactly helping matters. On the PDA, you lack feedback, so whenever I try to write on paper, I go all over the place.
Parents who pride themselves on their penmanship often bemoan their children's cursive � particularly when they can't read sloppy notes or notice that their kids increasingly turn in homework through e-mail. Many adults pine for a return to the Palmer Method or even its fancier predecessor, Spencerian.
"Cursive was so character defining when I was in school," says Amy Greene, whose 9-year-old daughter and 11-year-old son prefer keyboards to cursive in their Palo Alto classrooms. "The way you wrote something was considered part of your inner being, your core, your worth. ... Now it's considered an anachronism."
Damn, don't you hate these people? It's called progress guys! Deal with it. Writing on computer is faster, easier to learn, you make less mistakes, and it is easier to correct.. why learn something so outdated as cursive when it's totally useless in today's modern computer-driven society. Not to mention the fact that you won't have to type everything into a computer if you are stupid enough to still be using actual paper. I'll take my computer over a pen any day of the week.
Back at technology-savvy Horrall Elementary, Monique's teacher, Ed Boell, says Palmer-style cursive is worth the extra effort to learn. He refuses to give extra points when students turn in laser-printed homework assignments with fancy computer fonts, and he urges kids to send handwritten letters to parents and friends.
"letters"? What is this raving lunatic going on about? Aren't asddvbjeijoejfe letters? Give me email any day. I have friends in places as far away as the US, Australia, Malaysia, Africa, etc. I can't write them a letter: it'd take several weeks to arrive and get a reply! I have friends in wherever and I email them allmost every day!
What's his email address, so I can fire off a quick reprimand at 50 words a minute 
-Bjorn
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06-09-2003, 05:28 PM
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Pontificator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,162
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I think computers are very usefull - no doubt, but I think they have grown to have kids and people be too reliant on them.
For example, I think spell checkers are killing kids abilities to actually spell correctly - why bother knowing how to spell when the computer knows how to spell check? I don't think kids should be forced to write without a computer for the sake of their handwriting, but more for the sake of their knowledge of language.
It's a shame when people NEED a computer to express themselves.
I also think the effort in writing a real letter is nice sometimes. Can you imagine getting a wedding invitation over evite?
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06-09-2003, 06:04 PM
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Sage
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 734
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jacob
I think computers are very usefull - no doubt, but I think they have grown to have kids and people be too reliant on them.
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I agree. I rely completely on my PC. Without it, I can't do anything. I cannot communicate to friends or colleagues. I cannot find info or do any work. I can't do business or do any fun things like surf the net. I need my PC. Is that a bad thing? No.
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For example, I think spell checkers are killing kids abilities to actually spell correctly - why bother knowing how to spell when the computer knows how to spell check?
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You just made my point for me. Why spell when a computer can do it better and with less errors then you can? Why run out to a mailbox, mail a letter, wait two weeks for it to arrive and get a response when you can have email, or better yet, ICQ? Why run out to the library only to return empty handed, when all the info you need is on the 'Net?
Why write a sloppy paper when you can have a nice laser printed, illustrated, full color one done in under ten minutes? Less mistakes, easier to read, nicer to look at, easier to distribute, change or edit.. Why not? Computers enhance my skills and make life easier.
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I don't think kids should be forced to write without a computer for the sake of their handwriting, but more for the sake of their knowledge of language.
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Couldn't agree more. But I do think that the computer is a great tool for that as well.
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It's a shame when people NEED a computer to express themselves.
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I feel naked without mine.
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I also think the effort in writing a real letter is nice sometimes. Can you imagine getting a wedding invitation over evite?
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I don't have to imagine it. I already have gotten one. The 'Net and Email is the only way I can stay in touch with friends and family around the globe. I can't send them letters because of the distances and time involved. Plus, I write dozens of mails a day. I simply don't have the time or the money to pay for and post mail by hand, just to satisfy some people who think Email is "impersonal" It's 2003. Get with the program. Evolve or die.
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06-09-2003, 07:57 PM
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Pontificator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,162
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Quote:
You just made my point for me. Why spell when a computer can do it better and with less errors then you can? Why run out to a mailbox, mail a letter, wait two weeks for it to arrive and get a response when you can have email, or better yet, ICQ? Why run out to the library only to return empty handed, when all the info you need is on the 'Net?
Why write a sloppy paper when you can have a nice laser printed, illustrated, full color one done in under ten minutes? Less mistakes, easier to read, nicer to look at, easier to distribute, change or edit.. Why not? Computers enhance my skills and make life easier.
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When did I say that no research should be done? NEVER.
I mean that spell checkers cripple a kids understanding and knowledge of language. I don't have a problem with typed papers - just that kids should learn the language, not have the computer spell the paper for them.
Also a computer can't spell better than you can - a computer won't catch "Their" when it should be "there". If you think a computer's spell checker is perfect or can spell better than you can in general then there are some definite issues to deal with there.
The spell checker is a useful tool - but it's not a crutch and I have a problem with teaching people that it is to be used as one.
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I feel naked without mine.
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That speaks volumes. And it is a shame.
I would be disappointed to receive a wedding invite over email - unless it was absolutely impossible to send me one without it. It just reaks of laziness. If this is such an important event in your life - then take the effort to show others that this is true and send a real invite.
Email isn't "impersonal" but letters do show that someone did take the time to put more effort into the communication. I never argued that email should be gotten rid of.
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Get with the program. Evolve or die??
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The stupidity of this comment is baffling. If you just wanted to post this so everyone could just say "oh my you're right" then why did you post it at all?
I never questioned how useful a computer is, nor did I question whether YOUR uses for a computer is invalid. I am simply saying that the computer should be used as a tool to aid education only and doesn't make education such as the ability to spell irrelevant.
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06-10-2003, 10:31 AM
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Sage
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 734
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jacob
Also a computer can't spell better than you can - a computer won't catch "Their" when it should be "there".
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Indeed. A computer is only as smart as its user. I still don't really see your point though. If you make that mistake on computer, you'll also make it when you're using pen and paper. Computers are a great tool and I personally don't see the need to hang on to such an ancient form of writing such as cursive "just because"
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If you think a computer's spell checker is perfect or can spell better than you can in general then there are some definite issues to deal with there.
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I know it's not perfect. But it will catch most dumb mistakes or typos. Pen and paper can't do that for you. Not to mention the fact that I do *everything* on my PC. I don't write, because I know I'll need to type it into a PC eventually.
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That speaks volumes. And it is a shame.
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I grew up using a laptop in school, and *I* *bought* my first Palm Pilot my third year of high school. I recognized it as a valuable tool, and as a result, I started using paper and pen less and less, and I've been totally paper free since 1997/1998. I work faster and with less mistakes. Productivity has gone up, not to mention it's easier for me [I have a visual handicap] to work with digital media then anything written on paper. My brother and sister are growing up with laptops and palmtops and cellphones as well, and our schools greatly encourage that. You have to learn how to work in synergy with these new technologys.. Evolve, or die.
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I would be disappointed to receive a wedding invite over email - unless it was absolutely impossible to send me one without it. It just reaks of laziness. If this is such an important event in your life - then take the effort to show others that this is true and send a real invite.
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When you have friends and relatives in places most people can't even pronounce, I'll take an Email invite over a paper one every day. But then, I grew up with E-mail, and I use it every day for about five years now.. To me, E-mail is just as personal as a written letter.
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The stupidity of this comment is baffling. If you just wanted to post this so everyone could just say "oh my you're right" then why did you post it at all?
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I posted this because a lot of people seem to have the misguided opinion that anything computer-related is bad. I encourage everyone to give their kids typing lessons at an early age and introduce them to these technologys as soon as possible. It really annoys me when people try to hang on to such silly things as cursive handwriting when that time is better spent elsewhere. I happen to know quite a few parents and teacher who share that philosophy over here in The Netherlands.
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06-10-2003, 04:32 PM
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Pontificator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,162
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Well, I do agree that computers are only as smart as their user and frankly I've seen dependance on them to make people lose that perspective when teaching students.
I think an email can be very personal - the additional effort in writing a letter does mean something to many though. That additional effort might not mean something to everyone, but hey, people are different
Learning to write without a computer I think is something everyone should know - whether it be cursive or not, they should at least have the ability to write something that others can understand.
I do have relatives in places I can't pronounce, but I do see your point and if people want to send their invitations over evite that's no big deal in the end - but I still find it nice to get a solid invitation to a bar mitzvah or a wedding or what have you. It gives me something to remember the event by afterwards.
Just one more thing you said: "Why run out to the library only to return empty handed, when all the info you need is on the 'Net? "
My problem with the net is that there are too many invalid references on the net. There's probably 1000 sites that I wouldn't dare reference in a paper for every 1 that I would. I've also never come home empty handed from a library. Again, the net is a great resource, but one has to be that much more wary of what to use on it.
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06-11-2003, 03:55 AM
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Thinker
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 440
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Is it okay if others post here? ,)
I all but gave up learning handwriting when I was in 2nd, 3rd grade. It hurt my hand. I couldn't express myself. I write in, whaddya call it, sans serif? Block? I do that pretty sloppy too unless i pay attention.
Maybe when I retire I'll learning handwriting again when I also learn calligraphy. I love fountain pens. I love good pen and paper. But the tedious patience required to do calligraphy is daunting. Perhaps children should learn that? It's more than just a "skill," it's an art.
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Current PDA: Casio E-125. Past: Casio CQ-1 c. 1977. Seiko UC-3000, c. 1986. Casio B.O.S.S c. 1991.
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