11-10-2006, 02:00 PM
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Executive Editor
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 29,160
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Here's Why The Zune Isn't PlaysForSure
There's been a lot of frustration expressed by some people about why the Zune isn't PlaysForSure compatible, meaning why didn't Microsoft allow it to work with Napster, MSN Music, etc., and this post is my guess at why Microsoft went in this direction. First, you have to understand that the Zune team is under the same management roof, and thus shares many of the same values, as the Xbox team. The guiding ethos of the Xbox team is something along the lines of "If we control the experience, end to end, we can ensure it will rock". I believe that's exactly what the Zune team had in mind when they started this project a scant eleven months ago. So the question becomes, why would they think they needed to control the experience, end to end?
To answer that, I look to my own experience with PlaysForSure. I had a Napster account with a Napster ToGo subscription for around eight months, and I used it heavily - and saw all the ugliness. The truth is that while Napster's subscription system sounded great on paper - all the music you can eat for $15 a month - I found it to be problematic. I downloaded a lot of music right to my hard drive, and listened to it day after day. I'd say on average of 8-10 times a week, the music would stop playing and Napster would demand that I re-authenticate myself by entering my password. This is despite the fact that I always had the box checked off for "remember my password", and that the Napster service was only supposed to require authentication once every 30 days. I was using their software client that was embedded inside Windows Media Player 10, and it was so incredibly sluggish and crash prone it made me weep. Napster customer service was next to useless helping me with the issues I contacted them about.
The device experience was a bit better - once the music got onto my Zen Micro it played back fine - but I recall having some issues getting authorized music onto the player. I eventually cancelled my Napster subscription and went back to ripping CDs. I have a Creative Zen Visiom:M, and I think it's a fantastic media player, but all the music I put on it is from CD or downloaded DRM'd music (from MSN Music) that I've burned and re-ripped. It might be PlaysForSure compliant, but I don't use it that way because the experience was anything but "for sure".
Now ask yourself a question: if my experience wasn't that unusual (and I believe it's not), why would Microsoft want to connect their Zune into such a dysfunctional ecosystem? Let's say they made the Zune PlaysForSure compatible, and a customer was using it with Napster, and had the same problems I had. How much influence or control would the Zune team have over Napster's half-assed implementation of the music experience? The customer might call up Zune tech support and complain he's having a problem, and the Zune tech support team is put in exactly the same place as the Windows tech support team - blaming the other guy when all the customer wants is a solution to the problem. What if some MSN Music DRM'd tracks won't sync over to the device? Imagine how frustrating it would be for a customer to be told that although both are Microsoft companies, they're from different groups and the Zune tech can't fix the broken MSN Music DRM? This is one reason that Apple excels at what they do: a closed hardware platform with tightly integrated software is much easier to control and troubleshoot.
Microsoft knows they need to make the Zune platform as simple as possible, because their partners did not, and making the Zune PlaysForSure would open up the Zune platform to a huge array of potential problems, making the experience just as rocky as everything before it. For the Zune to have a chance against the iPod juggernaut, it has to be better than anything we've seen so far - and for that, some rules need to be broken.
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11-10-2006, 02:45 PM
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Sage
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Dunn
What if some MSN Music DRM'd tracks won't sync over to the device? Imagine how frustrating it would be for a customer to be told that although both are Microsoft companies, they're from different groups and the Zune tech can't fix the broken MSN Music DRM? This is one reason that Apple excels at what they do: a closed hardware platform with tightly integrated software is much easier to control and troubleshoot.
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While I agree with your argument against supporting PlaysForSure via non-MS subscription providers like Napster, it doesn't hold true for MSN Music. You don't think iTunes and iPod are done by separate groups at Apple? The fact that MSN Music and Zune are separate groups at MS is not a valid excuse - they're both MS and it should just work. I still can't believe that MS would release a player that can't play music sold from its own MSN Music store- it's simply ridiculous.
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64 GB iPad 2 WiFi, Apple TV 2, 32 GB iPhone 4
Early 2011 MacBook Pro 13" (dual boot with Windows 7), Early 2009 Mac Mini
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11-10-2006, 03:36 PM
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Developer & Designer, News Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyvim
While I agree with your argument against supporting PlaysForSure via non-MS subscription providers like Napster, it doesn't hold true for MSN Music. You don't think iTunes and iPod are done by separate groups at Apple? The fact that MSN Music and Zune are separate groups at MS is not a valid excuse - they're both MS and it should just work.
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The bottom line is, MSN Music, URGE, Napster or <i>insert other store here</i><insert other="" store="" here="">, third party-driven or not, it's all under the PlaysForSure roof and built on the same nerve-wracking DRM that quite frankly, doesn't play for sure. Us Windows Mobile folks have tried it over and over again with Pocket PCs, Smartphones, and other PlaysForSure media players, and the same problems (poor syncing, tracks that don't play, etc.) arise each time.
Do you really want the Zune to be part of a crumbling ecosystem such as this?  </insert>
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11-10-2006, 04:02 PM
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Sage
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darius Wey
<insert other="" store="" here="">Do you really want the Zune to be part of a crumbling ecosystem such as this? </insert> |
I still just don't get why you can't migrate MSN Music purchased tracks to your Zune. They are closing the store after all - and maybe you're now willing to upgrade your device to a Zune and switch to the Zune store, but that doesn't mean you want to abandon your library of MSN Music you paid Microsoft good money for. I mean we're talking about MS's own DRM-system here not some 3rd party thing. If they can't handle supporting the sync, they could at least offer a converter tool that would do a one time conversion of your MSN Music-purchased tracks to strip the PlaysForSure DRM and replace it with Zune DRM. Or if MSN Music keeps track of purchases (they should) just allow you to download the purchased tracks again in Zune DRM format to your authorized computer.
It just all seems so typically Microsoft weak like all the hooey about why you can no longer wireless sync your Windows Mobile device with ActiveSync 4.x. C'mon - it's Microsoft OS on both ends and Microsoft sync software and they can't make it secure? And then instead of warning users about the insecurity and allow them to decide for themselves, they just disable it? C'mon! /OFF-TOPIC Rant off!
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64 GB iPad 2 WiFi, Apple TV 2, 32 GB iPhone 4
Early 2011 MacBook Pro 13" (dual boot with Windows 7), Early 2009 Mac Mini
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11-10-2006, 04:57 PM
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Pupil
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 49
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I agree the Zune software should be able to convert the playsforsure music into a format the Zune can play
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11-10-2006, 06:33 PM
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Executive Editor
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 29,160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyvim
I still can't believe that MS would release a player that can't play music sold from its own MSN Music store- it's simply ridiculous.
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Isn't the answer obvious though? Because they're shutting it down! There's no point in making a partnership with a store that they knew would be shut down, replaced by the Zune Marketplace. Also consider the lawsuits if Microsoft would only work with MSN Music and not all the other PlaysForSure partners. It would be just inviting trouble...
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11-10-2006, 06:50 PM
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Neophyte
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 6
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None of the online stores or services selling music will be around forever. Thats what you get for buying music with DRM, what do you expect. I have no problem with getting DRM music through a subscription. Ive used Yahoo and Napster's services but I have and never will buy any track with DRM. I buy music from eMusic and other services that don't come with DRM or I buy the CD.
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11-10-2006, 08:02 PM
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Executive Editor
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 29,160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lofty
None of the online stores or services selling music will be around forever. Thats what you get for buying music with DRM, what do you expect.
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Yeah, that's the sad truth isn't it?  DRM'd music is temporary and fleeting, and not to be trusted.
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11-11-2006, 10:54 PM
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Editor Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 15,171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyvim
I still say they should provide a conversion path for MSN Music purchases. Otherwise there's no reason to trust Zune. What if they ditch Zune in 3 years and come out with Zack and the Zack store and "So sorry Zack doesn't play Zune and your old Zune player won't play Zack. But we'll let you buy all your music again at the Zack store." At the very least it doesn't inspire any confidence whatsoever in the new DRM scheme.
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Here's my theory: MSN Music isn't the only PlaysForSure store. Could it be viewed as some kind of anticompetitive behavior if Microsoft were to offer a transition for just one PFS store? On the other hand, if Microsoft were to offer transitions for every store, that'd be problematic too. And, Microsoft isn't a monopoly in the field. Well, maybe my theory isn't completely on the money, but I'd bet a bunch of legal issues arise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Dunn
Yeah, that's the sad truth isn't it? DRM'd music is temporary and fleeting, and not to be trusted. |
Well, doesn't that undercut some of the Zune "social" proposition, both in terms of Zune Marketplace content and wireless sharing?
--janak
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11-13-2006, 01:36 PM
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Pupil
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Dunn
Yeah, that's the sad truth isn't it? DRM'd music is temporary and fleeting, and not to be trusted. |
Would be great if people get the message based on the PlaysForSure / Zune debacle (and don't think that they are safe just because they did choose Apple) 
But I'm still surprised to see Microsoft frustrating their existing customer base. The only reason I can think of is that it is that small compared to what MS is amaing at that they consider it a small price to pay in order to go for a clean start and a hopefully improved system. But knocking of your parters and your faithful early adopters is imho quity risk.
Thorsten
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