Microsoft's Kin: Dead On Arrival (in North America at Least)

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/article.php?a=365' target='_blank'>http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/...ticle.php?a=365</a><br /><br /></div><p><em>"Quite frankly, I haven't been this disappointed in a phone in a long time. The list of complaints and missteps far outweighs the positives this time around. The basic concept of a phone focused on social networking is not new, and has been done better by others (Motorola, Palm, HTC). The Kin Loop and Kin Spot are neat concepts, no doubt, but the execution falls far, far short of what others have been able to accomplish." - </em><a href="http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/article.php?a=365" target="_blank">Eric M. Zeman, phonescoop</a></p><p><em>"The execution (or lack thereof) on these products makes us legitimately concerned about what the company will do with Windows Phone 7. We can only hope that the similarities between those devices and the Kin handsets don't stretch much further than the "Windows Phone" label, because in our estimation, Kin is one side of the family that needs to be disowned... quickly."</em> - <a href="http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/05/kin-one-and-two-review/" target="_blank">Joshua Topolsky, Engadget</a></p><p><img src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com/resizer/thumbs/size/600/wpt/auto/1273084204.usr1.jpg" style="border: 1px solid #d2d2bb;" /></p><p>I had the opportunity to hear from the Kin team (back then they were the Pink team) back in November at the <a href="http://windowsphonethoughts.com/news/show/95970/mobius-2009-fascinating-but-little-that-can-be-shared.html" target="_blank">Mobius 2009 event</a> - in fact, that's one of the reasons I titled my post "Fascinating, But Little That Can Be Shared". We spent several hours with the Kin team, really diving into what they were doing, but couldn't say anything about it. I knew that the Kin wasn't for me - it lacked too many features I'd want, but I knew exactly who the Kin was for: someone like my younger sister. She's 25 years old (I'm 35), uses a Motorola KRZR and a paper dayplanner, works for a non-profit agency, and is cost-conscious. She's careful about what she spends money on and is heavily into Facebook and texting (like most people her age). A phone like the Kin - a phone focused on social networking and sharing with friends, is exactly the kind of thing she'd love.</p><p>"Real" smartphones - of any brand - are still too costly for many people. Data plans in North America are still quite expensive - I was overjoyed when my GSM carrier (Rogers) gave me the opportunity to grab a 6 GB data plan for $30/month - so I knew that the key to the Kin being adopted by the target market its aimed at would be the pricing. Microsoft went for an exclusive carrier partnership - we knew that at Mobius - so I thought "OK, they've obviously gone exclusive to ensure a killer voice + data plan". The reality? The pricing plan from Verizon has killed the Kin. <MORE /></p><p>Verizon's pricing plan for the Kin 1 is $49.99 and $99.99 for the Kin 2 - after a $100 rebate mind you - isn't bad. It's not great, but it's not bad. The initial cost of a phone is rarely the issue; it's the cost of using that phone every month, and here's where Verizon put a gun to the head of Microsoft's Kin and pulled the trigger. In addition to a minimum voice plan at $39.99 per month, the Kin requires a smartphone data plan at $29.99 per month. That's $70 per month, MINIMUM, to use the Kin. For a product that's less functional than any smartphone on the market today, Verizon and Microsoft seem to be relying on consumer ignorance to sell the Kin, because only someone ignorant of their other options would get a Kin.</p><p>For me, the pricing is where the Kin lives and dies - Microsoft had a golden opportunity to capture a slice of the market above feature phones, but below smartphones, and sadly they've completely blown it - all thanks to their "partner" Verizon. The Kin is going to be released internationally through Vodaphone, so there's a possibility the Kin will see some success in other parts of the world if Vodaphone understands what they need to do, but in North America? The Kin is dead on arrival - and it's a real shame.</p>

[Ed Hansberry]

Don't you just love the carriers? Verizon doesn't care about the Kin, or any other phone. If you don't buy a Kin, you'll buy an Android, or ProductX. Why would they want to give the Kin a break? That just eats into their margins.

$70 is just for the voice and data. Being Zune enabled, many would want the $15/mo Zune Pass, so now the phone is $95. Now, here is where MS could show their dedication to the platform - give users a free zunepass for 1 year, thereby effectively cutting voice/data rates to $55. Think they will? I srsly doubt it.

[efjay]

You cant blame it all on Verizon, if that is what really happened. Doesnt MS have any guts or intelligence of their own? If they felt the pricing was not attractive why not go to another carrier? After all, if the pricing is too high what is the advantage of going with the supposed largest US carrier when you dont sell any devices? Why not go with T-Mobile, where the Sidekick originally lived and was popular and present it as the successor to the Sidekick, with cheaper plans that T-Mo is known for? Or any other carrier who would work WITH MS rather than just go for the green.

No, the fact is, Verizon did not hold a gun to MS's head, there were other alternative carriers available, but as usual Microsoft's small thinking prevailed and they went along with it. No one else to blame but themselves.

And sadly, thats not the only issue, poor browser (a WM staple), laggy (with a Tegra?), and other complaints about the software itself doesnt say much about Microsoft's ability to build a compelling experience with iWindows Phone 7.....

At some point, we have to start calling MS on these asinine decisions, if apple and google can get favourable carrier agreements for their phones, why cant Microsoft?

[Ed Hansberry]

efjay, you dn't know if other carriers were interested, or of those that may have been, were their pricing plans just as bad. We are all speculating here. I'm just saying, as a consumer if you don't like the price or selection at Wal*Mart you can go to Target, but as a company selling product, you can't shop around for a different customer for different terms quite as easily, if at all, and in the US, there are only 4 customers for MS to shop.

[efjay]

If MS couldnt get any other carrier interested they should have done what was necessary to get them interested. If the alternative was to put out a product that will be passed over due to its limitations and high cost, why bother? Why not put some of that oft-mentioned clout behind the Kin, either with profit-sharing, or something that would bring the phone pricing in line with what practically everyone expected? Why cripple the phone right at the start with a price that begs a comparison with more capable devices?

[Jason Dunn]

You cant blame it all on Verizon, if that is what really happened. Doesnt MS have any guts or intelligence of their own? If they felt the pricing was not attractive why not go to another carrier?

I do indeed blame Microsoft for getting into bed with Verizon with such unfavourable terms; it makes me wonder if there wasn't a last-minute change, because I find it really hard to believe that Microsoft thought that pricing would allow their product to succeed in the market...but what if Verizon was the only carrier that wanted the Kin? Yikes. That would put Microsoft in a position to either not launch Kin at all, killing it, or putting it out there with the one and only carrier who wanted it, hoping for the best. Both scenarios reek of suck.

No, the fact is, Verizon did not hold a gun to MS's head, there were other alternative carriers available, but as usual Microsoft's small thinking prevailed and they went along with it. No one else to blame but themselves.

How on earth do you know that for a fact? Given that T-Mobile has all of ONE Windows phone right now (HD2), do you really think that T-Mobile was jumping up and down to be Microsoft's partner? Windows Mobile has a lot of stink on it in the phone industry; I really doubt the carriers were falling all over themselves trying to be the exclusive Kin provider.

And sadly, thats not the only issue, poor browser (a WM staple), laggy (with a Tegra?), and other complaints about the software itself doesnt say much about Microsoft's ability to build a compelling experience with iWindows Phone 7.....

Indeed, those are all real issues - although I do have to wonder about the perception factor...as in, compared to a "real" smartphone, the software doesn't measure up. But what about compared to a feature phone? The software tends to be ultra-sucktastic on feature phones, so the Kin in comparison might seem like a great upgrade...but at the pricing that Verizon has put on it, people willing to spend $70+ per month will just go get a real smartphone. Either way, Kin loses. :(

[doogald]

Verizon has a $10 data plan for 250 mB of data per month that they offer for touchscreen feature phones, like the enV Touch. There is absolutely no reason in the world why they could not offer that plan for the Kin phones. You can still get an unlimited, $30 a month plan if that's what you wish - but if you are planning on using minimal data, why not the cheaper plan as an alternative?

[Jason Dunn]

A surprisingly positive review:

http://solution.allthingsd.com/20100504/microsoft-kin-phone-review/

No mention of the Verizon plan pricing though, so I'm sure she wrote it before that info became public. She doesn't seem to have the same complaints about the software and services that Engadget and Phonescoop do; and Mossberg's crew can hardly be said to be pro-Microsoft...

[Jason Dunn]

Another review, this one by a junior in school (how old would that make him anyway? We don't use that term in Canada):

http://www.slashgear.com/kin-a-view-from-genupload-0484305/

"The big point though, is data: $30 a month, in addition to regular costs. On the one hand, it’s a little high for teens, but considering that it includes unlimited data per month, as well as unlimited storage on Studio makes it much easier to accept. A flat fee that teens won’t have to worry about paying extra for going over a limit, and unlimited space on Studio to store everything is exactly what needed to be offered to make this appealing enough for teens at the price."

Question is, does he pay his cell phone will? Would his parents want to pay for this?

[Ed Hansberry]

Another review, this one by a junior in school (how old would that make him anyway?

16-17yrs old

[Fritzly]

Is it true that the $100 rebate is a "debit card" and not a real check? Not that a real check would have saved this project but.....

[Lee Yuan Sheng]

On a somewhat off-topic note, I still can't stomach how expensive your data plans are. :eek:

[Jason Dunn]

On a somewhat off-topic note, I still can't stomach how expensive your data plans are. :eek:

Funny, neither can we! :mad: (speaking for all North Americans :D)

[doogald]

Is it true that the $100 rebate is a "debit card" and not a real check? Not that a real check would have saved this project but.....

That seems to be what Verizon does these days. To be fair, you can transfer the value of the debit card to your checking account online free of charge. Also, they arrive pretty quickly - generally, within a week.

[Ed Hansberry]

That seems to be what Verizon does these days. To be fair, you can transfer the value of the debit card to your checking account online free of charge. Also, they arrive pretty quickly - generally, within a week.

Yeah, it isn't that bad. I got 5 of them last year when I switched our family to Verizon and also picked up a MiFi. Within 72hrs of receiving them, the money was in my bank account. Just had to go online, enter each card and convert it to a direct credit deposit into my account.

[efjay]

How on earth do you know that for a fact? Given that T-Mobile has all of ONE Windows phone right now (HD2), do you really think that T-Mobile was jumping up and down to be Microsoft's partner? Windows Mobile has a lot of stink on it in the phone industry; I really doubt the carriers were falling all over themselves trying to be the exclusive Kin provider.

(

At the end of the day, its MS's actions to date that speaks loud and clear, if they really wanted to do something different with the Kin they could have bypassed the carrier option altogether and gone with a SIM-free AT&T/T-Mobile compatible GSM version via BestBuy, Amazon, Wirefly, Europe has numerous options to get SIM-free phones. Especially as you seem to agree that MS and WM are not the most loved at the moment, they should be prepared to go it alone. Seeing the reception the Kin has got they really dont have much more to lose. They could have gone the google route with their nexus 1, sell it directly to consumers.

And seeing as this is not a WM device, I would not think the negative stigma of WM would apply here.

The Sprint/Virgin mobile plans announced starting from $25 for unlimited data put this Kin debacle in sharp contrast. Microsoft can go it alone if they are commited, just look at the Xbox 360, with Xbox Live is considered the best gaming console.

[The Yaz]

I agree the data plan seems exhorbitant for a non-smartphone but are we taking into account the fact that the kin has the auto upload feature & internet access to the cloud? I am assuming that Verizon is the host of the storage or is the person responsible to pay the third party to host it.

So for comparison; My AT&T family plan for minutes is $90 for three phones (agregate of $30 each), family unlimited text $30, and I have $30 a month unlimited data for my Nokia E62. When I break out the costs my phone is also $70 a month but without the cloud backup and cool interface.

For the kin to suceed, Microsoft and Verizon need to talk up the cloud benefit and the kin interface not being as complicated as a normal smartphone to rightfully place it against the feature phones not the smartphones.

Steve :cool:

[efjay]

The only difference from a smartphone is that the uploads are automatic, android phones are also constantly connected and depending on the user's habits could be uploading a lot of data as well but the Kin has much less functionality. Without any real added value there really is no reason to buy a Kin for the same price.

[Small Town Man]

I can speak for europe only, but it may apply for north america although.
The carriers are not in any way interested in phones they cannot brand. That means they want to modify the firmware that way that the users are more or less forced to use the additional services of the carrier, like music download, payed news content etc..<O:p</O:p
If MS now ask them to offer a data plan they cannot make any additional money with, they won't run for it.<O:p</O:p
These kind of phones produce heavy data load on their network without giving them more profit.

I am wondering why MS did not just sell the phone without any voice or data plan as efjay already said.

[Jason Dunn]

...if they really wanted to do something different with the Kin they could have bypassed the carrier option altogether and gone with a SIM-free AT&T/T-Mobile compatible GSM version via BestBuy, Amazon, Wirefly, Europe has numerous options to get SIM-free phones.

The entire point of the Kin is a tightly controlled, end to end experience. Selling it SIM-unlocked and telling customer to go find their own carrier, configure the data settings, blah blah = fail. That's the exact opposite of what they want, and frankly, what advantage would it give them? It's not like smartphone data plans on AT&T or T-Mobile are much cheaper.

And seeing as this is not a WM device, I would not think the negative stigma of WM would apply here.

It's still Microsoft. The carriers see Microsoft, and their track record in the mobile space...

The Sprint/Virgin mobile plans announced starting from $25 for unlimited data put this Kin debacle in sharp contrast.

Yeah, exactly - it's looking like Sprint was the player that wants to shake things up and would have been a much better partner for Microsoft. Although, I'm curious, Sprint wants $10 for Blackberry support; would the same be true for other smartphones? As in, is the base $25 fee just for feature phones?

Microsoft can go it alone if they are commited, just look at the Xbox 360, with Xbox Live is considered the best gaming console.

The equivalent of Microsoft "going it alone" with the Kin would be if they build and sold the Xbox 360 and also had to built a network infrastructure to go with it. Microsoft can't fully "go it alone" unless they launch their own wireless network. They need a carrier partner to bring a device to market.

[Jason Dunn]

For the kin to suceed, Microsoft and Verizon need to talk up the cloud benefit and the kin interface not being as complicated as a normal smartphone to rightfully place it against the feature phones not the smartphones.


Indeed, the cloud stuff is cool, but in this market segment, where the basic usage hasn't changed in a DECADE (text, text, some voice, text, text), it's all about cost. I don't think there's really anything Microsoft can do to convince someone that what the Kin offers is worth $70/month when there are very capable smartphones that can do all that, and more, for the same amount.

[Fritzly]

They need a carrier partner to bring a device to market.

Well this would be true only if they will go the same way of the Zune and release it only in the US; in the rest of the World the majority of devices sold are SIM Free.
Furtermore and much more important in Europe there is not the same archaic and predatory system used here: if you receive a phone call you do not pay anything and this is very important for kids: let us say you are in Europe and use a rechargeable SIM, you run out of credit therefore you cannot send SMS or make phone calls but...... you can still receive both!!
If you are 13/14 with not so much money the difference is huge!

[mtnmedic]

Is anyone REALLY surprised by this? Truly?

Look, I love a lot of what Microsoft has to offer but they are THE single most frustrating tech developer and provider.

Leave it to Microsoft to create awesomeness and then, shomehow, cripple it to the point of mediocrity. Typically it's due to their own paranoia or weak execution. It happens EVERY time. If I were Bill, a lot of heads would be rolling already.

[kerrins]

It's one thing for the account holder of a family plan to pay $70, but quite a different thing when everyone on the plan has to pay $70. Most families cannot afford to have a $280/mo phone bill for a family of four. I think it's outrageous that the Kin is targeting kids for this device and monthly cost. The data plan for this should be more like $30 for the account holder and $30 for the rest of the people on the plan. Total $60 for data. $30 for text. $40-$50 for minutes. The total family plan price should be in the neighborhood of $130-$140/mo.

[Jason Dunn]

Is anyone REALLY surprised by this? Truly?

Well, yeah, honestly I am. At Mobius everyone in the room was telling Microsoft that the price point mattered and whomever their carrier partner was, they had to get the voice + data plan just right, or it would fail. I really believed that they understood that. :(

Although to be fair, maybe they did understand that, but Verizon did not. It doesn't say much for Microsoft though if they didn't negotiate up front what the rates would be. :(