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View Full Version : Why A Half-Baked Windows Phone 7 Release on an HD2 is a Bad Idea


Jon Westfall
03-05-2010, 01:00 PM
<p><em>"We've had it up here with these shenanigans. You're jerking us around, and we're sick of it. We get it, you have a very particular concept of what sort of phones you want running your new Windows Phone 7 Series OS. Not only do we get it, but we're kind of proud of you for sticking up for yourself for once and ensuring some sort of sameness across your platform. Unfortunately, it's not the holiday season yet, so we can't buy one of these fancy WP7S phones yet. Meanwhile, on the other end of town, HTC is bringing the HD2 to T-Mobile in the US this month. Sure, it runs your soon-to-be-outdated Windows Mobile 6.5 OS which nobody wants, but it's also pretty much the best hardware we've ever seen. Bar none."</em></p><p><em></em><img src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com/resizer/thumbs/size/600/wpt/auto/1267727578.usr7.jpg" style="border: 0px solid #d2d2bb;" /></p><p>Paul Miller published an <a href="http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/04/htc-hd2-and-windows-phone-7-series-just-tell-us-no-microsoft/" target="_blank">editorial at Engadget</a> yesterday that made me think about the consequences of corporate secrecy and policy when it comes to the geek community. Even as someone willing to play by these rules (as evidenced by my own NDA with Microsoft), I still long for a time where geeks can have what they want, and companies can keep mainstream customers happy. Unfortunately I don't see that happening any time soon for some very practical reasons. And in the end, as frustrating as it is, I think it is for the better.</p><p><MORE /></p><h2>We're Geeks: Just Let Us Play</h2><p>This is the mantra that I think resonates with us, and where Paul is coming from in his editorial. We're geeks, we know that there is a high degree of likelihood that Windows Phone 7 can run on the HD2's fantastic hardware, so let us have an upgrade. After all, as geeks, first adopters, and hardcore'ers, we're cool with the fact that it doesn't run 100%. Haven't we all experienced the surprise of having a piece of technology we assumed would have bugs run better than we expected (or flawlessly?). Geeks already anticipate problems since we're used to pushing the bounds.</p><p>However <strong>regular users are not</strong>. Believe it or not, most people who buy a phone expect it to work 100% of the time. They give <em>no slack</em> to the vendors involved when it comes to bugs, errors, acts of god, or any combination of the three. And unfortunately again, <strong>they outnumber us!</strong> Which means that even if we all go out and buy 5 Windows Phone 7 series devices at launch, we still wouldn't have the same consumer power as regular users. So why can't we just keep them away from our "secret" ROMs and such? Well if you've ever been over at the <a href="http://forum.xda-developers.com/" target="_blank">dark side of the force</a> you know that this is impossible. Just look through the forums there and you'll find many non-geeks who saw cool features they wanted for their phones, and ended up doing horrendous things to their devices because they skipped a step, or didn't see something, or didn't do something we all take for granted. Regular users shouldn't be expected to act like geeks, and because of that, companies can't give us half-baked un-intended ROMs and still deliver an exceptional product.</p><h2>But Since Regular Users Won't Use It, a Half-Bake Can't Cause a Negative Perception!</h2><p>So who am I? I'm a geek and a contributing editor. This means that I both push and write about the limits and the mainstream. And while some of the old media types aren't geeks, most of the new media (where you'll get your first impressions of Windows Phone 7 Series, most likely) are. This means that it's tremendously important for the success of WP7S to make a good <em>first</em> impression on users and media members alike. Would a good first impression best be served by the HD2 running a half-baked ROM or by a device built with the OS in mind? The latter. The most available to media geeks? The former. Therein lies the problem. If I buy an HD2 (which I will...) and I put a ROM on it that isn't built for it (which I might...), I may be biased toward the final product remembering bugs that I saw with my unintended preview. It sounds crazy, but as a psychologist, I've actually thought of this (which is why it's unlikely that I would flash a Windows Phone 7 ROM onto my HD2 - I don't want to judge a new OS by a flawed implementation).</p><h2>What if Microsoft Just Releases a Win 7 ROM That Isn't Half-Baked?</h2><p>That's awesome, if it happens. I personally doubt it will happen (and honestly have no clue from any source, NDA-covered or otherwise), but if it does, it would likely be a good thing, speeding up adoption rates of the new platform. As for myself, I may want to keep my HD2 running 6.5 though - after all, it's the last great device of a great operating system (that unfortunately outlived it's greatness in many ways).</p><p>There you have it, my own editorial. I agree with Paul at Engadget though - Microsoft should come out and say yes or no on the issue. But to address Paul's last line, I doubt Microsoft would ever release a half-baked ROM with a non-preferred caveat - it would only hurt their efforts to rejuvenate their mobile phone business in the end.</p><p><em>Jon Westfall is a geek psychologist decision making researcher working in New York City. His average day includes server maintenance, manuscript revisions, statistical data analysis, and reading a myriad of tech and psych blogs. You can learn more about him at <a href="http://jonwestfall.com" target="_blank">JonWestfall.Com</a>.</em></p>

Fritzly
03-05-2010, 01:33 PM
Ever been a Beta testers for some software company? What you use is a OS or other kind of software with issues and bugs; actually you are in a quest for them. Does this negatively influence the tester opinion about the final product? Not at all, eventually the opposite.

I do not see an average user go looking for an "unofficial ROM" for Win 7; on the other hand a geek would surely do it but fully aware of what is playing with.

Russ Smith
03-05-2010, 02:16 PM
Well, I'm going to place myself firmly in the middle :)
I agree that there is a problem with releasing an update to a device which doesn't fit the specs for the new OS. I'd also agree that the problem is more with novice users (who might even think they know more than they do) who get excited about the new features but don't appreciate the possible pitfalls. On the other hand, the _only_ non-spec item on the HD2 is the presence of a few more buttons than MS specifies. I don't think that's a serious issue even though I can see someone complaining because their "Windows" button doesn't work.

I've drawn the comparison several times that Apple is a hardware company that writes (surprisingly good) software in order to sell their hardware, where Microsoft is a software company that is only really interested in selling their software. With phone OS, however, it still comes back to the hardware in the end. MS won't be selling their OS if people don't buy the phones. Releasing an update for an existing product means that (at least some) people won't buy a new one. (That's why I was surprised that Apple did actually release an update for their "older" iPhones.)

I'm sure the XDA folks will have an unofficial WP7 update for the HD2 and I'll probably use it as well. However, I suspect that, just like the 6.5 update for the X1, it will have some artifacts.

whydidnt
03-05-2010, 03:24 PM
However regular users are not. Believe it or not, most people who buy a phone expect it to work 100% of the time. They give no slack to the vendors involved when it comes to bugs, errors, acts of god, or any combination of the three.

I get the sentiment, but Microsoft has been allowing vendors and carriers to foist this sort of thing on us for years. How many WM phones have been unstable because the manufacturer skimped on RAM or poorly put together the ROM? Couple that with the US Carriers desire to load as much crapware as possible on these devices and you've had a recipe for disaster -- NO WONDER WM has a poor reputation with consumers. In some cases the only way to get a stable device has been to use one of these gray market ROMs.

Now Microsoft says, "We're going to make sure the hardware meets certain specifications" which I think is great, however, if they continue to allow the carrier to load the device with crap then really they are saying we don't care so much about the consumer experience, we just want to make money.

Let's hope MS means what they say this time and actually follow through with making sure that these devices work and are stable. Based upon there past record in this area, I don't have a lot of faith that this time they really mean it.

Jon Westfall
03-05-2010, 05:46 PM
Ever been a Beta testers for some software company? What you use is a OS or other kind of software with issues and bugs; actually you are in a quest for them. Does this negatively influence the tester opinion about the final product? Not at all, eventually the opposite.

I do not see an average user go looking for an "unofficial ROM" for Win 7; on the other hand a geek would surely do it but fully aware of what is playing with.

I've beta tested many things, even mobile operating systems. However I've never seen an open beta for a mobile OS for exactly the reasons I've stated above. The ones I've participated in have always been heavily advertised as not close to the final product to prevent me from thinking that the bugs I saw were indicative of the final product.

I do see average users seeing a geek friend's phone and saying "Whoa, how did you get that feature" and thus ending up looking for an unofficial ROM. Or do the geeks you know hide their cool features from their friends ;)

Fritzly
03-05-2010, 06:55 PM
I've beta tested many things, even mobile operating systems. However I've never seen an open beta for a mobile OS for exactly the reasons I've stated above. The ones I've participated in have always been heavily advertised as not close to the final product to prevent me from thinking that the bugs I saw were indicative of the final product.

I do see average users seeing a geek friend's phone and saying "Whoa, how did you get that feature" and thus ending up looking for an unofficial ROM. Or do the geeks you know hide their cool features from their friends ;)

My apologies, I should have been clearer: with "Beta testing" I mean a close, "technical" and with NDA program. I did not mean the majority of Google products that remain in "Beta" forever or what lately MS called "Preview" like Office 2010.

Now, speaking of WM there is a big difference between "Beta" and "unofficial" ROM: my WM 6.5.3 "unofficial" build installed on my HD2 works much better than the original HTC one. And yes the HTC one, not a carrier modified one; I never buy crippled phones through carriers.

Finally the bottom line here is that, apparently, MS will not let HD2 owners upgrade to the RTM release of WM7; my understanding is that the only thing missing in the HD2 is the so called "search" button. I am sure that people who just bought a HD2 would be more than happy to remap a button instead of buying a new phone.

Jason Dunn
03-05-2010, 08:21 PM
Now Microsoft says, "We're going to make sure the hardware meets certain specifications" which I think is great, however, if they continue to allow the carrier to load the device with crap then really they are saying we don't care so much about the consumer experience, we just want to make money.

I'm not entirely sure what I can and can't say at this point about that, so I'm going to play it safe and be vague: Microsoft really cares about the performance and perception of Windows phones, and they're going to be strict about protecting that. :)

alese
03-06-2010, 09:35 AM
It's kind of funny.
You could probably find tons of old posts from "Pocket PC / Windows Mobile days" expressing dissatisfaction with Microsoft, Toshiba, HP... because there was usually no upgrade for certain device even though the device itself was perfectly capable of running the new release.
The bottom line was always that this is both bad for the image of the platform (especially the fact that Microsoft made flashing a pain since you had to reinstall everything) and really bad PR for the company selling the "upgradable" device.

It's pretty much the same now. I get it that Microsoft want's to be more strict, but really, the only difference between HD2 specifications and Microsoft's requirements for 7 is the fact that HD2 has 5 instead of 3 buttons. Yes the pictures on these buttons are not the same as expected, but I highly doubt that anyone even the most "normal / regular" user is not that stupid not to be able to use a button with an arrow as search button if it's mapped like this - especially since this user had to flash his phone before that.
So for me this is stupid excuse and one that will bring MS some bad press, but they probably figure it will not be a big deal, after all HD2 is only one device with maybe few thousand users willing to upgrade.
I'm sure they could (HTC said it will provide the upgrade) if they wanted to provide not only "half baked" but complete and full featured upgrade to 7 for HD2, but they made a business decision to completely cut off with the past and has nothing to do with caring for existing customers or their experiences.

Oh and one more thing, mandating that your phone can't have dedicated hardware buttons for call pickup and reject, and that this is only handled on touch screen is, frankly stupid. Such buttons don't really break the "experience", they improve it - I don't want to pick up my phone in my gloves and not be able to pick a call without removing the gloves just because Microsoft want's to copy Apple too much.

Fellwalker
03-06-2010, 11:46 AM
Whilst I have an HD2, I can understand Microsoft.

One of the reasons (IMHO) that Windows CE/Mobile/Phone has never taken off as well as Apple's iPhone is that the experience from machine to machine has been different. Often so different that they might as well have been different operating systems.

Software writers are then trying to write an app that covers several (or indeed many) applications. Currently people are writing apps for the HD2, and posting them on HD2 specific web site (XDA) but many others using different HTC devices are coming on and installing those apps, only to find that they do not work. Then they grumble and overtake the forum with their complaints, "bugs" (no- it is not designed for their phone, it works as described) and suggestions for improvement (for THEIR phone, not the HD2 for which it was designed). As a software, writer that must be a huge diversion and waste of time. They do not even have that other phone to test it on, and if they add machine specific code, that bloats the program and brings potential for unforeseen glitches on the model they originally wrote for.

Commercial software has similar issues - which version do they go for? My HP hx4700 was on the face of it the same as my sisters Fujitsu Siemens and my friends Dell; all of them VGA Windows Mobile. But the experience was different, as each has its own take on what should be included, and what should not, what graphics and sound, what display, and what extras.

If MS allowed the HD2, its users would be immediately clamouring for tweaks that allowed them to use their buttons for something additional, and that immediately creates a sub-culture within WP7S.

So, MS have decided that there will be ONE (or maybe 3) layouts permissible. It is their only chance of beating Apple. They need something that application writers can write for knowing that they do not have to cover lots of different alternative layouts. And re-mapping a button is not something they want to be bothered with, nor are the support questions when that re-mapped button does not quite work, or the user presses another button that they have personally remapped and it does not do precisely what the user expected.

If they choose to allow the HD2 to get an official upgrade, then how long before the outcry of "why not my phone, it's only difference is ..."

Having said all of this, MS have got to really police it tightly, and they must ensure that when released, the OS is bug free, stable and fast. It must do everything and do it well. It is going to have to last a long time, with improvements but the same core for several iterations. They will need an outstanding app store with lots of free rubbish (a la iphone) and some really must have games and programs to generate interest and traffic.

In the words of Sir Humphrey in Yes Minister - "That's very brave of you, minister. An extremely courageous decision"

Jason Dunn
03-06-2010, 07:02 PM
Well said Fellwalker! You definitely grasp the problem Microsoft has had in the past, and what they're doing to address it now. :)

Sven Johannsen
03-07-2010, 06:46 PM
Releasing an update for an existing product means that (at least some) people won't buy a new one. (That's why I was surprised that Apple did actually release an update for their "older" iPhones.)
If you had an iPhone (and maybe you do), I don't think you would be that surprised. I do have a 3G, which I upgraded, and my wife has a 3GS, which came that way. I didn't get video capabilities. I didn't get an electronic compass, I didn't get a faster processor. I did get cut, copy and paste, and better search on the phone.

I think there are way fewer iPhone 3G owners, that would have upgraded for the hardware additions, than would have been incensed about not getting those last two items. I think the ill will they would have suffered by not upgrading to provide those universally demanded features, would have significantly outweighed that small percentage that would have upgrade to get them. Bet their marketing guys thought so too. Among other things, Apple absolutely understands marketing.

But back on topic. No, MS should not release WP7 for current platforms. They shouldn't begin by allowing perturbations, waivers, what-have-you, to the spec and vision they have. Even if it is just the button complement/layout (which I actually don't really like), it opens the door to the fragmentation of the WP7 concept. The OEM flexibilty we have today, is at least partly to blam for the poor adoption of the current platform. Nobody knows what WM is. Similar flexibility is already starting to hamper Android.

For those that want it, I'm sure there will be some way to get WP7 on your HD2 (and maybe your Pure or even your MPX200 for that matter), but it shouldn't be an official MS upgrade release. Keep in mind, that the release of a new OS does not make your current device work any different than it did yesterday. From experience, putting the new OS on it, doesn't always make it better.

frankoli
03-16-2010, 01:48 AM
honestly you guys i dont think it takes a genius to focus on a simple software solution for the button problem. i don't no if you are aware, but, asside from the physical buttons theres a touchscreen for navigation and the hardware buttons are nothing more but simple shortcuts to pre established software. the hd2 has 5 buttons, and obviously were not talking about a non professional key remapping of the device that wouldnt mach the buttons predefined functions. bing search can easly be accessed by means of the os it self by navigating through the os without resorting to the physical buttons (thats why is touch, in fact multitouch, and windows 6.5 is an outdated os developed for resistive screen devices with no multitouch support whatsoever, in fact htc sense only makes sense on disguising wm6.5 deep flaws on the huge capacitive screen of the hd2.) as for the other buttons well theres the home button wich the hd2 has got also and the return button witch the hd2 also has so, that leaves us with the call and reject call buttons wich can easly be assgned by implementing small code lines to the new os. so please excuse me but i dont buy any excuse thatmay be provided by htc or microsoft. why? well because first of all the hd2 is a clear prototype of a windows phone 7 mobile device. 2nd they say metro demands a gpu, well another lie! the hd2 is able to emulate at high speed framerate psx1 games, in fact better than the iphone's psx emulator even when the iphone has high quality multitouch 3d games and usefull apps so thats just another lie by both partners in crime. overall were just being neglected and thats all. a recent device, atually the best there is in terms of hardware just to become obsolete in the blink of an eye with no support from htc for the multitouch features and high processing speed capabilities. my friends, its all quite simple. its a new name, a new concept, and thats what we call fashion. and fashion is just that, a phenomena wich leads the consumer to aquire new products by intencionaly outdating previous releases (models) of the product. the hd2 isnt outdated, its acttualy the best hardware outthere, but market strategy demands that they push forward to the development of a new device stating that the hd2 dosnt apply because this and because that. bull****. lets just stop finding fancy excuses for enterprises with no professional ethics. i must say that if it doesn't come to happen ( the well deserved update of course, HTC will be going down on is own quality standards and custoomer support

Fellwalker
03-16-2010, 08:46 PM
honestly you guys i dont think it takes a genius to focus on a simple software solution for the button problem.

Sorry frankoli, but you entirely miss the point. The point is complete consistency of experience, and ONLY ONE platform to design for. Yes, the HD2 could have a little extra code, but then it would be different, and there might be an application for which the tweak does not work. Some users would complain that such and such key did not work, even though it is not supposed to. Some would complain they don't have a search key symbol. And more.
OK, so if you do it for the HD2, then what about the Toshiba TG01 and TG02? There are others too. Before long you have a plethora of different designs all capable of running WP7s but looking and feeling slightly different.
Now imagine you are the tech desk or the help desk. What do you say when a user tells you that his or her machine does not work right? Now you have to check if it is a proper WP7s phone as well. And maintain a list of known glitches due to the hardware variations. If you think that does not happen, look at XDA developers, where there is an HD2 ONLY section of the forum, with HD2 ONLY software. It is only 4 or 5 posts before someone complains that the software does not work on their Touch or whatever. Then you get the complainants who say it doesn't work, and it is only after pushing that they admit they do not have an HD2, or that they have installed some other ropey software.
In windows and windows phone (up to 6.5) the huge variety of hardware and software causes more problems than enough. This is step one to get away from that, and to give users an experience without resets, without glitches and conflicts.
Now, I am an HD2 owner, and very happy with it. I can put up with having had to re-flash the operating system twice so far. I want a continuation of the W6.5 and am very sorry that MS have decided to stop development, but I understand them. I will probably get upgrades for a while through the likes of XDA. I love being able to run games designed for older versions, and get free programs from all over the net. I don't like the look of the new WP7s with its strange grey squares as a UI. I hate the idea that I could only use software downloaded from the windows phone marketplace.

I AM NOT MICROSOFT'S TARGET USER.

frankoli
03-17-2010, 12:28 AM
i must say that the fact that i own a htc is clouding my judgment but it is not. i love the simplicity of windows mobile 6.5 and like u i dislike windows phhone 7 metro but they could at least implement support on a new wm6.5 release, to silv erlight apps and other programing code language used for windows phone 7 apps, after all i enjoy the fancy look of an enterprise phone model but lets face app support for windows moble phones up to 6.5 is very very very poor and it goes against all the possibilities of the hd2 high end hardware specs. i could live with the fact that my phone wasnt going to get a n update if.

it had a resistive screen that would not allow me to play multitouch games for wich windows mobile 6.5 has no support

if i didnt know its amazing processing speed beats iphone in everyway. for example psx games are much faster on the hd2 than the iphone and yet iphone has full 3d multitouch games.

finally if there were ever any hopes to get such apps on this phone i lost them all by the complet reengeneering of windows phone 7. windows phone 6x market will be left for dead or for punishment with some useless low graphics quallity singletouch apps.

its kind of frustrating.

and no i dont think a 2 button issue means any problem in terms of tchnical assistance thats just another lame excuse. i like microsoft products i just deslike completly microsofts and htcs full lack of support for the product. has i said before a powerfull engine with no wheels and no road to go thats how the hd2 feels

Fellwalker
03-17-2010, 08:51 PM
I disagree about there being a dearth of apps for windows phones. There may not be many MS ones, but there are more than enough with free, shareware and full paid for apps out there.
Totally agree that WP7s is so different that there is still a development path for WM6.5, particularly as you say silverlight, and I'd like flash.

I don;t often use multi touch, but there are times it is very useful. A zoom slider would however be pretty much as good. However, on balance I preferred my hx4700's resistive screen, for its accuracy and reaction. It was also visible in daylight without the backlight on. I cannot play minesweeper on my HD2, it isn't accurate enough.
The geeks have got Windows 95 running on an HD2, they can surely get WP7s (or the best bits from it) working. http://wmpoweruser.com/?p=14254

I don't care about 3D multi touch games, and my guess is that is the same for many WM users. If there isn't a big enough userbase wanting it, developers will not develop. Hence MS strategy - something that people want to play games on.

frankoli
03-18-2010, 11:30 AM
nowadays phone market as a set of strict rules for success. the one that rules them all is multipurpose. if you buy a device, it has to be abble to readapt to your way of being. for instance, i work but i'am on a time off, on the bus heading torwards anywere and i feel like playing, like listenig to music, and when i talk about games i mean real quality releases, not some old classics for resistive screens like solitaire or minesweeper for stylus! suddenly i get a call theres a document i must review before i deliver at work and theres microsoft office. but what complements multipurpose is the fact that you may remain relieved at all times, because if theres something youre phone cant do with the bundled apps it cme with there is an app for it, thats what makes symbian and iphone os's success. Finance, educational, entertainment, multimedia apps. our phone is our pc in our pocket. would you upgrade a pc's hardware if the requirements of the os were to remain always the same? for example you buy a new desktp pc state of the art hardware and you get stuck with windows 98 (i was going to be mean and say 95) but you dont get any apps, just the webbrowser, office, mediaplayer and a lost app from time to time. thats exactly whats happening here. windows 6.5 has made his way all the way through a series of devices that gave it full support, however the hd2 and also the devices that fall under the same hardware specs, like the ones you mencioned, are not provided with the proper operating system support to the bundled hardware.
a new release of wm6.5 is comming, so they say, 6.5.3 and they say that this multitouch beasts, with high processing habilities are going to be provided proper support enhancements for stylus apps. i really can die happy now, i get to play minesweeper and solitaire( single touch apps) on my lsrge capacitive screen, and, oh my god, they will probably require all the processing power of my device, not?! its true there are some apps with improved graphics like a few games asphalt 4, prince of persia, ferrari evolution, brainchallenge challenge, etc, none with multitouch support. its kinda lame, having a miltitouch device and using apps and the os itself with singletouch restrictions. has for educational, finances and other software categories, theres not much to talk abot, in some cases nothing, asside from navigation software like tomtom route66 ndrive, igo, etc.
however, if not a farfetched, yet more than deserved update to windows phone 7, the devices that fall under the same hardware criteria than the hd2, like the toshiba and others, should get a unique wm6.5.x update providing flash and silverlight support, at least that, in order to mend the huge mistake of not providing the proper software support to the hardware. they should have given us full support other wise my friend this is still nothing butt a half backed rom for the hd2, not even the 3d drivers mach the required hardware criteria, and thats undeniably called bad custumer and product assistance by the manufacturer and manufacturer partners.

Fellwalker
03-18-2010, 11:57 AM
I absolutely understand that these things are important to you, but they are not so to me. THe games you mention ( asphalt 4, prince of persia, ferrari evolution, brainchallenge challenge, etc,) leave me cold. However, if I did want to play I'd not use something I had to squint at - I'd do it on my PC, with a pair of decent sized screens (that aren;t multi touch) and proper sound, or my laptop. But I'm more likely to be playing Tower Defence. On the HD2 I am more for sudoku, bubble bobble, sokosave, picranium, even scrabble. They are not processor intensive and they don't require multi touch. I've databases of my music and books (but they work better on resistive with stylus). I've lots of e-books using MS Reader, and I do read them (at home, while walking, while waiting between meetings). Pocket outlook is my most often used app, I listen to music while doing these other things, and use the task list (but am frustrated it hasn't been implemented in SenseUI). I use Opera to browse, facebook mobile, I've used google maps directions and tried several satnavs but TomTom does not fit (legally) on the HD2.

So, we are coming at this from two different points of view.

What works for me won't work for you, and vice versa. I'd never in a million years get an iPhone, however clever the games are. I really don't want WP7s - the more I hear about no multi tasking, no storage card, installation of programs only through marketplace, the less I want it. And I didn't want it from the get-go.

That reminds me, i believe that the true reason MS will not allow the HD2 and others like it is that those phones have the ability to use huge micro SD cards. That does not fit the corporate ethos. It removes the control from the centre. They want to be able to wipe you out.

So really we have to agree that our needs and desires are different, so we'll never agree on what our phone should be.

frankoli
03-18-2010, 05:16 PM
i mus admit i never say such restrictions about the storage mencioned anywere but i also admit that it looks as if it could be a fitfull choice by microsoft. and also the way you mencioned all those restrictions on a row it made me fell has if i didnt want the update my self. theyll probably feed the new phones with large internal storage, so i dont really think that would be a problem. has for the games i just used them as an example to what i meant, that is if i have he hardware features why isnt there the mandatory software support for these features. also you have a point there outlooks sense ui integration would be an amazing step but i think multitouch should be taken more seriously on this device, after all its all ovr the sense ui and thats it. sense is covering for wm6.5 misfits tho the hd2 screen and processor performance. but i purchased it and therefore i must live with it. what bothers me deeply is the fact that it could do so much more but they wont allow it to

epdm2be
05-02-2010, 02:24 PM
Why all the fuzz.

It's a goddamn phone. And a bad one at it too.

There are deliberate restrictions in the hardware so that certain populair applications don't work anymore. MS is a **** up. WM7, oops I meant , Phone OS mobile series professional mmx edition 7 is a big joke. The only thing that these phones will be known for is how good or bad they copy the iPhone (which in itself is a very bad phone which got standard phone features after 2 generations).

We're going backwards. I'll revert back to dumb phones after my smart-ass ****phone breaks down. And if it anoys me enough I'll break it myself. Probably by throwing through the shop-window where I bought the damn thing!

Hmmm.... that's an idea. If Balmer ever visits my country don't throw him a cake/shoe/brick in the face but a few HD2's :-) I'll be the first!

epdm2be
05-02-2010, 02:58 PM
i must say that the fact that i own a htc is clouding my judgment but it is not. i love the simplicity of windows mobile 6.5 and like u i dislike windows phhone 7 metro but they could at least implement support on a new wm6.5 release, to silv erlight apps and other programing code language used for windows phone 7 apps, after all i enjoy the fancy look of an enterprise phone model but lets face app support for windows moble phones up to 6.5 is very very very poor and it goes against all the possibilities of the hd2 high end hardware specs. i could live with the fact that my phone wasnt going to get a n update if.

it had a resistive screen that would not allow me to play multitouch games for wich windows mobile 6.5 has no support

if i didnt know its amazing processing speed beats iphone in everyway. for example psx games are much faster on the hd2 than the iphone and yet iphone has full 3d multitouch games.

finally if there were ever any hopes to get such apps on this phone i lost them all by the complet reengeneering of windows phone 7. windows phone 6x market will be left for dead or for punishment with some useless low graphics quallity singletouch apps.

its kind of frustrating.

and no i dont think a 2 button issue means any problem in terms of tchnical assistance thats just another lame excuse. i like microsoft products i just deslike completly microsofts and htcs full lack of support for the product. has i said before a powerfull engine with no wheels and no road to go thats how the hd2 feels

It doesn't matter if Microsoft makes new WM6.xx versions or not. As long as application development still continues it doesn't matter. It's the apps and in the end "What you do that's important" not how you do it. The core OS is a small part. The rest is upto 3rd party developpers. And let's be honest in WM6.1 there's much more headroom for developpers to create killer-apps than in this severely restricted WP7-area. It's clear that Microsoft only wants to tighten its grip on the market similar like Apple has (succesfully) done in the past 5 years.

It took 2 generations before those poor iPhone users were able to send a bloody MMS. They STILL can't send a photo taken with the inbuild camera to their computer over bluetooth let alone any other bluetooth enable (dumb-)phone. ANd yet that is the example that Microsoft wants to copy? Good luck to them!

I believe the reason M$ doesn't fully close the lid on WM6.x is because they might be running back to after the disaster of WP7. This might be sooner than you think. I admit it's poor from HTC to first declare the HD2 ready for WP7 and then if everybody bought one, admitting that users will have to buy yet another phone. They forgot that the HD2 is (still) the most expensive HTC phone on the market (in europe). That many buyers made this big investment with hope that their phone was at least future-proof.

I don't feel happy about this. Especially if the excuses being used to not deliver WP7 is merely a minor detail. For god's sake the bloody thing has 5 buttons while only 3 are required!!!

epdm2be
05-02-2010, 03:06 PM
I absolutely understand that these things are important to you, but they are not so to me. THe games you mention ( asphalt 4, prince of persia, ferrari evolution, brainchallenge challenge, etc,) leave me cold. However, if I did want to play I'd not use something I had to squint at - I'd do it on my PC, with a pair of decent sized screens (that aren;t multi touch) and proper sound, or my laptop. But I'm more likely to be playing Tower Defence. On the HD2 I am more for sudoku, bubble bobble, sokosave, picranium, even scrabble. They are not processor intensive and they don't require multi touch. I've databases of my music and books (but they work better on resistive with stylus). I've lots of e-books using MS Reader, and I do read them (at home, while walking, while waiting between meetings). Pocket outlook is my most often used app, I listen to music while doing these other things, and use the task list (but am frustrated it hasn't been implemented in SenseUI). I use Opera to browse, facebook mobile, I've used google maps directions and tried several satnavs but TomTom does not fit (legally) on the HD2. [snipped]

Now if you could use the LED-as a torchlamp and get Vito Audio Notes touch fully working (incallrecording, yes indeed). It would be perfect. The first is possible through a 3rd party app, the latter is hardware restricted by HTC! So much for improvement.

I like your SIG. I feel the same about the Psion series 5. That thing ran on 2 AA batteries. Amazing!

Fellwalker
05-02-2010, 03:41 PM
I don't feel happy about this. Especially if the excuses being used to not deliver WP7 is merely a minor detail. For god's sake the bloody thing has 5 buttons while only 3 are required!!!

It has a micro SD slot, that is why it will not be supported. The number of buttons is a smokescreen.

Fellwalker
05-02-2010, 03:44 PM
Now if you could use the LED-as a torchlamp and get Vito Audio Notes touch fully working (incallrecording, yes indeed). It would be perfect. The first is possible through a 3rd party app, the latter is hardware restricted by HTC! So much for improvement.

I like your SIG. I feel the same about the Psion series 5. That thing ran on 2 AA batteries. Amazing!

And there still isn't an application to touch Psion's Card for easy data management. And in Agenda, the way you could READ a week to a view on screen showing all of the appointments. Excellent. Now in the latest winmo it is still only bars to indicate booked times. Progress...

epdm2be
05-02-2010, 09:21 PM
It has a micro SD slot, that is why it will not be supported. The number of buttons is a smokescreen.

Wait a minute.... R U telling me that "new" WP7 phones won't have any means of additional storage?!?!?!

You are kidding, aren't you?

Fellwalker
05-03-2010, 07:35 PM
Wait a minute.... R U telling me that "new" WP7 phones won't have any means of additional storage?!?!?!

You are kidding, aren't you?

If only. And it gets worse. Apparently you can ONLY get new programs through the MS Marketplace as they are changing the CAB format to something else. I forget what. It is a locked down platform akin to what Apple have always done.

INFORMATION FROM THE WEB (I cannot find this on the MS site, so it may have changed but if you search for "windows phone7" and "sd card" you will find a LOT of angry people.)
Microsoft revealed the minimum hardware requirements for Windows Phone 7 Series devices at the MIX conference, shown below. Nothing too surprising here- we’re looking at some pretty high-end specs. WP7 does not support external memory cards, so the phones must have 8GB or more built-in flash storage.

Screen
Capacitive touch with 4 or more contact points
WVGA (800×480) or HVGA (480×320) resolution

Sensors
A-GPS, Accelerometer, Compass, Light, Proximity

Camera
5 megapixels or more, flash required, camera button required

Multimedia
Common detailed specs, Codec Acceleration

Memory
256 MB RAM or more, 8 GB Flash or more

GPU
DirectX 9 acceleration

CPU
ARMv7 Cortex/Scorpion or better

Jason Dunn
05-04-2010, 09:56 PM
It has a micro SD slot, that is why it will not be supported. The number of buttons is a smokescreen.

Microsoft has never stated anything about why a 7 upgrade wouldn't be coming from them - so any "smokescreen" is just random tech bloggers guessing.

epdm2be
05-12-2010, 02:22 AM
Microsoft has never stated anything about why a 7 upgrade wouldn't be coming from them - so any "smokescreen" is just random tech bloggers guessing.

Yes, but what mr. Fellwalker mentioned is a valid point.

Is WP7 unable or restricted/crippled/whatever to use external storage cards?

If yes, then indeed we're going backwards!