Why Can't HP Get Smartphones Right? [Archive]

Jason Dunn

03-04-2010, 09:00 AM

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/24/technology/24hewlett.html?partner=rss&emc=rss' target='_blank'>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/24/t...ner=rss&emc=rss</a> </div>"Hewlett-Packard is one of the world's most successful makers of desktop computers, laptops, servers and printers. It owns a powerful consumer brand, and it is a growing provider of services for businesses. In the first quarter, the company's sales rose 8 percent. But in smartphones, H.P. has been on a steady slide into irrelevance."<img src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com/resizer/thumbs/size/600/wpt/auto/1267685793.usr1.jpg" style="border: 0;" />As someone who has fond memories of the first HP Jornada HPC (handheld personal computer) in the late '90s, and the amazing iPAQ 3650 and Jornada 568 Pocket PCs, it's been painful watching HP never quite get it right. Sure, they've had some decent devices, but nothing in my mind that can really compete with the likes of HTC, Samsung, or even Toshiba. Their Windows Mobile devices have been functional, yes, but they've tended to have all the visual appeal of a lead-encrusted brick. They're the classic "play it safe" device that doesn't stand out from the pack. HP is a powerful company full of smart people, so why haven't they managed to get this one right? Will we see them in the Windows phone 7 era, or is the Glisten the last iPAQ we'll see?

Inventor

03-04-2010, 11:41 AM

I have been with HP from the start and can point out the key feature most of the other manufacturers like HTC are missing and why HP is really winning.

I’m using the iPAQ Data Messenger every day here and my machine rocks. It has a huge GPS antenna, Camera, HSPDA etc, it never has let me down and has all the bells and whistles. I will go to HP for next time for an upgrade again because of the most important thing OEMs -didn’t- think of.

The feature - PRICE:

I give demos of my devices to people who want to know what the device does. Back in the HPC days I worked in a shop and would show lots of customers what you can do with them.

The *First* question 99% of the people I have shown it to is - "How much does it cost?"

I bought my iPAQ DataMessenger on the Expansys website for $320 unlocked. I have a large collection of iPAQs and upgrade every 2 years. The LiOn batteries don’t last forever and the screens get worn out and its cheaper to just upgrade. The same time I bought my iPAQ Expansys had the HTCs and it was selling some devices for ~$1000.

You have to remember that this is a *phone* that should be upgraded once every 1-2 years, they don’t last forever or even 10 years. New OSes and new chips come out. Better camera modules. HP knows what the 'key selling feature is' - Its the price.

Remember Jason before you had this website and house etc. you were posting on the newsgroups how 'expensive' the iPAQs from Compaq were. Now your doing well and forgetting the key selling feature. You have to remember that most people cant afford to spend $1000 every year on a phone.

Listen to the consumer. That’s what HP did.

AlCapone

03-04-2010, 02:35 PM

I had many of their products , and learned this the hard way;
-They did not bother to update their "Wireless jacket" (GSM-jacket) to work with the latest models - this was their most advanced/expensive addon. - They simply ignored the customers.

New ROM ? - forget it - it was just not happening.
- I'm sure a toilet would do *something* to bug reports and feedback, HP did not.

So after being ignored long enough, I simply moved on to "QTEK" (HTC) and then HTC.
I do not miss HP - the HTC community is great, and updates exists.

Russ Smith

03-04-2010, 02:36 PM

My take is exactly the opposite. I look at features and I'm siding with HTC now. The primary factors were the huge ROM and RAM configurations (because I like to load my machine up), processor speed, and screen size. My wife is currently using my Xperia X1 instead of her HP 910 because she likes the keyboard and software better.

HP was my favorite for years, all the way from the first WinCE clamshell handtops to the last of the PocketPC iPAQs. When I went convergent, though, the feature set wasn't there for me.

Still, I think the issue is more marketing than features. I like to buy unlocked, but I had to buy my wife's HP 910 that way since it wasn't sold by any of the local carriers. HP fixed that issue with the Glisten and appears to be marketing it a bit more strongly. We'll see if that helps. The thing is, HP only has a few offerings compared to the others. That not only figures into raw numbers, but also into the impression of how committed they are to the product genre. (Compare two phones to 10-15 different laptop and desktop configurations.)

Dyvim

03-04-2010, 02:38 PM

Weren't all HP's most successful iPAQ PDA models back in the day designed by HTC anyway? So not really much of a surprise when HTC decided to go out on their own.

CeluGeek

03-04-2010, 05:08 PM

I'm getting sick of all these tech blog always bashing manufacturers for not being iPhone-cool. More and more users who prefer no-nonsense, efficient and productive devices are being neglected by the manufacturer's need to shut up these whiners.

One of HP's biggest pros is precisely that they have designed devices for those of us who value productivity and efficiency way more than trying to look cool. The problem is that HP has dropped the ball, not for not making cool-looking devices, but for not providing the appropriate support for them. I had the iPAQ 910c and it would have been my best phone EVER. It had my dream hardware design: a front-facing keyboard, a responsive touchscreen that I only had to use if I wanted to because it was also full of hardware shortcuts to make the touchscreen use optional. But the 910c was full of bugs that HP did not bother to fix. In fact, the 910c was one of the first devices to ship with WinMo 6.1 and HP not only refused to upgrade us to WinMo 6.5, but they couldn't be bothered to provide us with an updated AKU for WinMo 6.1 to get rid of some of those initial OS release bugs.

Now, I won't buy another device from HP unless they do a 180° and learn to provide their customers the support they deserve.

Jason Dunn

03-04-2010, 05:39 PM

I have been with HP from the start and can point out the key feature most of the other manufacturers like HTC are missing and why HP is really winning.

You think HP is "winning"? I don't have any statistical breakdowns of what percentage HP has of the Windows Mobile market, but nearly all Windows phones are sold through the phone carriers, and HP has very little presence there. I'd be shocked if HP had more than 5% of the total Windows phone market. What makes you think HP is winning? Why do you think the New York Times would write an article like this if HP was doing great in the smartphone market? They're not.

Listen to the consumer. That’s what HP did.

I have to disagree - I don't think HP is listening to consumers. I think they're several years behind the curve of where they need to be in order to be competitive. The new Glisten looks pretty decent, but they have nothing to compete with the large touch-screen devices like the HD2, Diamond 2, or even the Touch Pro 2. The reason their devices are fairly affordable is that they don't use cutting-edge components. Where's their Snapdragon-based device? Where's their device with a capacitive screen? None of their devices inspire consumer interest or desire.

Now it may be that they're fine being a middle-of-the-road provider of affordable, run of the mill devices. But they'll always be a small player then.

Jake_Speed

03-04-2010, 05:40 PM

I have the HP910c and it has never failed me. It had a sound bug when I first got it, but HP had a rom upgrade that fixed it, other than that it is flawless. HP support was very responsive, I would get another HP.

I even dropped (accidentally) it a couple of times from about 3 feet on to concrete, you have to look really hard to notice any marks on it, try that with your iPhone, hah!

Jason Dunn

03-04-2010, 05:42 PM

The thing is, HP only has a few offerings compared to the others. That not only figures into raw numbers, but also into the impression of how committed they are to the product genre. (Compare two phones to 10-15 different laptop and desktop configurations.)

Exactly - the smartphone market is an afterthought for HP. You can tell they're not really serious about it.

randalllewis

03-04-2010, 05:56 PM

I am an HP customer. I have always had the impression that once you get past computers, printers, and enterprise services, that HP management doesn't quite know what to do with the other product markets the company is in.

It isn't just smartphones. HP has been in, then out, and now back in to the digital camera market in recent years. Does anyone outside of readers of tech blogs know this? HP has developed (or perhaps just slapped their name on) some good computer peripheral devices in recent years. And then there are the smartphones. All of these product lines (and there are proably others) have suffered from a clear lack of vision and resources.

I agree with those who believe that smartphone market growth is just beginning. It is not too late for HP to be a serious player and there is nothing wrong with it focusing on devices similar to the Glisten which appear aimed more at business users than consumers. I hope someone at HP notes however that more and more business users are using the iPhone as it can meet both their business and personal needs.

Inventor

03-04-2010, 08:54 PM

You think HP is "winning"? I don't have any statistical breakdowns of what percentage HP has of the Windows Mobile market, but nearly all Windows phones are sold through the phone carriers, and HP has very little presence there. I'd be shocked if HP had more than 5% of the total Windows phone market. What makes you think HP is winning? Why do you think the New York Times would write an article like this if HP was doing great in the smart phone market? They're not.

Winning = ~$300 for a unlocked voice command smart phone -productivity machine- that works great. No major problems. Happy with device, compatible, nice suprises, will come again etc .etc.

-Agreed sales are behind on phones. But company is doing well.
-Agreed they should fix the problem with selling directly with 'subsidized' carriers since thats how most people buy now.

Now it may be that they're fine being a middle-of-the-road provider of affordable, run of the mill devices. But they'll always be a small player then.

When MS introduced the WM7 phone they included HP as a OEM. So this can change pretty quickly. Its a dynamic market and just started on this layer of time.

Bladefree21

03-04-2010, 09:20 PM

I was a big ipaq fan, and after the HP/Compaq merge is when seemed to go down hill for me. I was looking forward to the first compaq ipaq phone version.. that never came :( . I purchased the HP5555, and 1910 which were buggy and never seemed to get resolved (and lack of updates/ROM, etc.) as others had noted above. The innovation that they had put into each device that seemed to be very much ahead of the times then made it relatively easy to pay 700 for such a neat device (maybe like the iphone now). They seemed to drop this in favor of the smaller screened, low power hardware(<-this was just preference).. The lack of support though really killed it for me.. I kept watching (others, and my devices not get updated/etc. (= customer loss) and waiting for 2-3 years.. The changes seemed permanent, aggravates me to think about it now.. Their innovation seems to be gone in this area.. Who knows maybe they will come back some day.. That would be cool!

So similar to others opinions, bringing back the leading innovation/support they originally had would be my vote!

Jason Dunn

03-04-2010, 10:19 PM

When MS introduced the WM7 phone they included HP as a OEM. So this can change pretty quickly. Its a dynamic market and just started on this layer of time.

Absolutely - it's not too late for HP to become relevant. The question though, is do they want to be?

Paragon

03-05-2010, 01:15 AM

Hp's mobile success died the day they discontinued the Jornada line in favor of the iPaq. Back then the Jornada was the superior device. They had replaceable batteries and storage card slots, while the iPaq was still stuck with big ugly sleeves and batteries that were built in. If my memory serves me correct, when HP bought Compaq and kept the iPaq name, they dumped their own mobile team in favor of Compaq's mobile device team. So, they kept the favored iPaq name, and lost the innovation their own Jornada team was bringing to the platform. They then stumbled very badly for 2-3 years trying to launch the first iPaq phone.

Dave

Twain

03-05-2010, 10:33 AM

Hp's mobile success died the day they discontinued the Jornada line in favor of the iPaq.
I have to agree with Dave. I had two HP devices, including the original clamshell (Jornada?? it's been so long) Windows CE device and the Jornada. As a long-time engineer, I recognized that HP was always known for their quality technical products (calculators, etc.). In fact, I still use an HP 11C calculator I got when I first got out of college in the early 1980's. I was quite happy that they entered the mobile device field. But when they bought Compaq, the quality died overnight.

I totally understand that selling high grade, high quality Pocket PCs/phones to engineers is a niche field and probably wasn't commercially sustainable in the long run. But to throw out years of experience making quality products in favor of cheaper consumer devices and then drastically reducing their customer service, well that was the last straw for me. I haven't really looked at HP lately in the mobile space.

Having said all of that, however, I can say that I bought an HP Windows Home Server EX487 last year and it rocks!! But that's a story for Digital Home Thoughts! :)

Bladefree21

03-05-2010, 02:33 PM

Hp's mobile success died the day they discontinued the Jornada line in favor of the iPaq.

Yea, they should have kept two lines.. :( There was a lot of fans on each side, both VERY popular at the time. Their popularity had made it hard for Palm to keep up at that point, so they were doing well.. There was some Great style in the designs as well then.

Perry Reed

03-05-2010, 03:51 PM

I was a LONG time hp user (and an hp employee for several years). I started with the 100LX DOS device and moved up through the Jornada 320LX (their first Win CE device), Jornada 548, and Jornada 568.

But I was never a big fan of the iPaqs and after the merger, didn't see any reason to buy one. So I moved to HTC and have had a number of their devices along the way.

I'm currently using a Palm Pre, my first non-Windows device in a VERY long time, but am watching Windows Phone 7 very closely. I would love to see HP competitive again in the market, but I'm not holding my breath. It would appear that the market has left them standing still. Of course, until the WinPhone 7 announcement, everyone was saying that about Microsoft, too...

Eriq Cook

03-05-2010, 06:41 PM

Ah, I remember the Jornada Handheld PC. It was a decent but due to lack of connectivity options (for such an expensive device) I sold it after just a few weeks. But HP completely lost me after the iPAQ 6315, the worst and buggiest smartphone I ever owned, by far.

The original Compaq iPAQ was a solid device. Great build quality and stable drivers/OS. After HP bought Compaq the quality of future iPAQ's went out the door IMO. I'll never buy another HP smartphone again.

Jake_Speed

03-05-2010, 08:52 PM

You should really check out the iPaq 910c or the Glisten, the build quality reminds me of the old days, it's really good!

Ah, I remember the Jornada Handheld PC. It was a decent but due to lack of connectivity options (for such an expensive device) I sold it after just a few weeks. But HP completely lost me after the iPAQ 6315, the worst and buggiest smartphone I ever owned, by far.

The original Compaq iPAQ was a solid device. Great build quality and stable drivers/OS. After HP bought Compaq the quality of future iPAQ's went out the door IMO. I'll never buy another HP smartphone again.