Microsoft, the Mobile Market, and Will WM7 be Too Late?

[Nurhisham Hussein]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2354561,00.asp' target='_blank'>http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,281...,2354561,00.asp</a><br /><br /></div><p><em>"Microsoft must embrace the mobile space if it wants to get its act together. The company has a bunch of semi-independent units that don't seem to talk to each other very much: Windows, Windows Mobile, Xbox, Zune, and whatever has grown out of their acquisition of the Danger/Sidekick team. As Apple has shown, you create compelling experiences by acting as one company, not as five. Unfortunately, it looks like Microsoft still isn't talking to Microsoft."</em></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Sascha Segan at PCMag delivers a stinging critique of what's wrong with Microsoft's mobile strategy. It's not that we haven't heard all of this before, but the lost data disaster at Sidekick, rumours of trouble at Project Pink, and the relative modesty of the updates brought in by WM6.5, kinds of brings it home. A year's a long time in the mobile space, and with WM7 slated to be released only in late 2010 (RTM is supposedly in about six months time), MS is going to lose even more ground in the mobile sweepstakes. Android has really come on strong in the past six months with a bevy of sexy devices hitting the shelves and the backing of some major names, and no bets that Steve Jobs has something more up his sleeve for the coming year. Will WM7 be enough to turn the tide? Sound off in the comments.</p>

[efjay]

Looking at 6.5 and the lack of interest from developers swooning over the iphone and android, consumers and tech writers i think WM 7 and subsequent MS mobile OS's will be seen as good in their own right but not really considered behind the other two mobile OS's, and probably also behind future Maemo devices as well. For some reason MS seems to think they have the time to get back in the game but this time next year we will be seeing devices that put today's flagships to shame and those devices will not be running WM. There just wont be that many people who havent gone to android or the iphone who will demand a WM device and that in turn will turn away manufacturers and developers further. Unless MS starts thinking of doing the hardware themselves WM is heading to being a niche OS.

[ffmobileguy]

Is it too late? Well, if M$ Phone/Mobile 6.5 is a bust, I am sure it will put M$ right out of business!!! Rofl!! I guess most readers here are not old enough to remember all of the horrible and horribly late releases there were of MS-DOS, Windows, OS/2, etc.! Microsoft's never fails; they have unlimited time to get things right because they have an unending inflow of revenue/cash. (Just my humble opinion.)

[schmenge]

Is it too late? Well, if M$ Phone/Mobile 6.5 is a bust, I am sure it will put M$ right out of business!!! Rofl!! I guess most readers here are not old enough to remember all of the horrible and horribly late releases there were of MS-DOS, Windows, OS/2, etc.! Microsoft's never fails; they have unlimited time to get things right because they have an unending inflow of revenue/cash. (Just my humble opinion.)

While I am not necessarily ready to write MS off yet I don't think the days of old apply. Typically MS was either going up against companies who were not totally committed or that lacked the deep pockets of MS. While Apple may not have as deep of pockets, they are doing OK and I think Google can burn money like crazy if they want to. I think it is a whole new game for MS.

[ffmobileguy]

While I am not necessarily ready to write MS off yet I don't think the days of old apply. Typically MS was either going up against companies who were not totally committed or that lacked the deep pockets of MS. While Apple may not have as deep of pockets, they are doing OK and I think Google can burn money like crazy if they want to. I think it is a whole new game for MS.

Granted Google has deep pockets like M$. However, the phone market is huge. The question was, "Is it too late for M$?" There will (hopefully) more than one winner. Competition is great for the Consumer. Do you think that M$ expects to secure 90+% market share of the phone market in order to feel like a 'winner' in this space?

[eugarps]

All,

I don't believe MS is by any means finished but it does seem that they are marginalizing Mobile. How long have we been hearing about 6.5 and phone are just now coming to market and many of our phones cannot be upgraded to OS 6.5? How long will we be hearing about 7.0 before we have phones that will work with it been brought to market?

I guess I'm just grumpy because, so far, my Treo Pro cannot be upgraded..... My iPhone, however, is now on it third OS upgrade. Why can Apple do it and MS cannot?

If MS isn't careful, it may find itself in the same position as Palm OS in the mobile market. Palm was a strong competitor until is stumbled trying to bring the new Palm OS to market. How many of you started with a Palm Pilot and went to Treo, before "Graduating" to WinMo? Even today (IMO) Palm OS on the Treo with Documents to Go is a better notebook substitute than and of the other OS offerings. Call me hard headed, but I still carry a Palm TX and its keyboard with me along with my Treo Pro (or iPhone 3G).

The arguement presented in the PCMag article is a strong one. Apple, with its integration, can bring many products to market simultaneously, to wit: Snow Leopard, 3Gs, and the new iMacs; and have them all talk to each other.

I have both OS's in my house with an iMac G5 and a Thinkpad X-40.

My $0.02,

Bill

[ffmobileguy]

All,


I guess I'm just grumpy because, so far, my Treo Pro cannot be upgraded..... My iPhone, however, is now on it third OS upgrade. Why can Apple do it and MS cannot?


Bill

No offense, but as your iPhone is on its 3rd update, Windows Mobile is on its 7th release? Plus, can your iPhone:
- support external memory SD, micoSD, CF, etc
- muti task
- work without iTunes
- play wma files
- have a slide out keyboard
- 800x480 VGA screens

M$ does it, why not Apple?

Bottom line, they all do about the same things. You have virtually unlimited choices. Why not celebrate how great we have things!

[racerx_]

No offense, but as your iPhone is on its 3rd update, Windows Mobile is on its 7th release? Plus, can your iPhone:
- support external memory SD, micoSD, CF, etc
- muti task
- work without iTunes
- play wma files
- have a slide out keyboard
- 800x480 VGA screens

M$ does it, why not Apple?

Bottom line, they all do about the same things. You have virtually unlimited choices. Why not celebrate how great we have things!


and because iphone hardware doesn't really change and isn't that great to begin with.. just the OS is lighter weight. And i'd say palm was flailing before they tried to launch their new OS.. i was a palm user and they just weren't keeping up with changes in technology. Interestingly, the iphone is sort of a glorified palm pilot if you think about they way it treats the OS and interface. Palm just wasn't forward thinking enough.

all that said... microsoft just isn't paying enough attention to getting a strong mobile OS on the market and their windows 7 screenshots that they're still hanging on to look like something from a cheap sci-fi movie rather than a well thought through interface for users..

[eugarps]

No offense, but as your iPhone is on its 3rd update, Windows Mobile is on its 7th release? Plus, can your iPhone:
- support external memory SD, micoSD, CF, etc
- muti task
- work without iTunes
- play wma files
- have a slide out keyboard
- 800x480 VGA screens


ffmobileguy,

No offense taken. The ONLY reason I don't use my Treo Pro as a daily driver is its smallish screen. My next phone will be a Verizon HTC Touch Pro. Why? Because of what you said. I like the large screen and the slider keyboard. I'm switching even though I'll have to change phone numbers!

I have given the iPhone a fair trial for a year and found it wanting in many areas. Most notably being: 1. No muti-tasking, 2. Poor email and web graphic support, 3. No support for external or physical keyboards, 4. No really good MS Office support (Mostly because of #3.) 5. Because of a tremor I have found the virtual keyboard to pretty much useless to me, beyond short text messages.

As I said, I carry my TX and its keyboard on trips. I'd love to NOT have to do that and MS Mobile promises to allow me to ditch the TX and the iPhone by combining it all in one package. No more Batman Toolbelt! Yay!

I was simply commenting that MS could bring more integrated approach to a system unifying Windows and Windows Mobile. Also, MS could bring us a more feature right Office environment and manufacturers could give us flashable ROMs allowing us to update.

Bill

[superrrguy]

I don't think it will ever be too late for Microsoft. I just don't think WM7 will be any good.

Everything that I liked about Windows Mobile has changed, even the name. I'm beginning to get the feeling that besides us hardcore users, Microsoft is just trying to trick people into using Windows Mobile. It's not PocketPC, it's Windows Mobile, but also Windows Phone, just like the iPhone. Everyone I know that tried WinMo gave up with version 5. I always thought 6.1 was pretty good, but they were long gone.

I was about to jump ship and get an iPhone and I found the Tilt2 on letstalk.com for 0$ with a 2yr extension of my contract. ($99 for a new line.) I had 6.5 on my Tilt and everything on the Tilt2 is 10 times better and it still sucks overall. This is one good looking phone but 6.5 kind of sucks and for 7, I just think MS will just copy the latest and greatest and try to combine features from all the top phones and do some half assed job in the end on WM7. Copy seams to be the direction they're going, they just put they're own spin on some things which actually seam to make things worse.

(Some of this is combination MS & hardware makers.)

iPhone has pretty icons; we'll make pretty icons but make them staggered so they're hard on the eyes and won't let people organize them in any way at all.

iPhone doesn't have a camera capture button; we'll take away the capture button. Tilt had it, Tilt2 doesn't. Good luck finding the icon in the start menu.

iPhone doesn't have a blinking LED light; we'll take away the blinking LED but if u get a notification we'll blink the light but not if it's powering, then it just stays solid no matter what. Tilt worked fine, Tilt2 is weird.

iPhone doesn't have dpad. We'll take away dpads and make people swish and swipe to do everything.

iPhone has Slide to unlock; we'll add a slide to unlock that password protects right away if u use it instead of after a set time and makes u slide at the top to the left or right but if u have a text or email slide down to unlock directly to that message but we won't show u that message yet. Also, don't forget that u can have more than just 4 digits in ur pin but its kind of hard to tell how many digits u've typed in so be careful.

Whether 7 will be good or not, the lag on these phones in intolerable while trying to get things done. Microsoft will find some way to trick some kids into using it. Can u say "Pre Sidekick winPhone in color BerryBlack"?

[soho_1]

Not sure what people mean by deep pockets, but Apple has more cash than Microsoft or Google, and far more net cash. In the latest quarterly earnings updates Apple reported $34 Billion cash and long term investments and no debt. Microsoft has $30 Billion and $5.76 B in debt. Google has $21B and no debt.

Apple is also a larger company by market capitalization than Google. It's the fourth largest company in the US after Exxon, Microsoft and Wal-Mart.

[frankenbike]

Considering in the US we live on a two year upgrade cycle, people who bought phones this year or late last year will be in the market for their next phone after WM7 is out. Whatever happens in-between is sort of irrelevant to them.

We're finally seeing Windows phones in the US that are comparable in form factor and features to iPhones. I think my Imagio has a lot of room for improvement in responsiveness, and it required downloads to reach its full potential as a device with accelerometer and gyro, but people see that 400x800 screen and think it's gorgeous.

Will WM7 be able to establish itself as brand? I think so. Geeks have been anti-Microsoft for 20 years, and it still dominates the PC marketplace. People are comfortable with Windows. It appears that Microsoft gets that a phone is now your entertainment device and computer away from your computer. Two years ago, they still looked at Windows Mobile as primarily an enterprise market, an adjunct to Office software.

So for people coming off contracts in late 2010, there will be WM7 phones, and they'll be competitive. On top of it, Windows is a name that most people are comfortable with (but notice I don't say "that they can trust"). I just hope that Microsoft uses the time to get it closer to "right". And allows you to easily change the friggin' Zune buttons to things you use more often.

[superrrguy]

I can't run more that 2 programs at time with my new Touch Pro 2 and when they close I lose my place where I was in the app.

The lag is driving me nuts.

I can't sort programs any way in the new staggered Start Menu which hurts my brain.

I feel like a sucker using WinMo and Idon't think 7 will be any better.

[frankenbike]

I can't run more that 2 programs at time with my new Touch Pro 2 and when they close I lose my place where I was in the app.

The lag is driving me nuts.

I can't sort programs any way in the new staggered Start Menu which hurts my brain.

I feel like a sucker using WinMo and Idon't think 7 will be any better.

Turning off the HTC Today app saves nearly 20 percent of your memory if you're using it. Also I found this really helped a lot:

http://forum.ppcgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=90702

In particular this: SSK TP2 Dynamic Resource Proxy.cab (search for it in the opening post). After Ditching the HTC Home customization and using this cab, I had 45 percent of my memory in use, 55 percent available for apps in my Imagio, which should be pretty similar to the TP2.

It would be nice not to have to do these sorts of hacks. I've run as many as 10 apps simultaneously so far with the above suggestion, with no problems. But the Imagio is 6.5.

[superrrguy]

Turning off the HTC Today app saves nearly 20 percent of your memory if you're using it. Also I found this really helped a lot:

http://forum.ppcgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=90702

In particular this: SSK TP2 Dynamic Resource Proxy.cab (search for it in the opening post). After Ditching the HTC Home customization and using this cab, I had 45 percent of my memory in use, 55 percent available for apps in my Imagio, which should be pretty similar to the TP2.

It would be nice not to have to do these sorts of hacks. I've run as many as 10 apps simultaneously so far with the above suggestion, with no problems. But the Imagio is 6.5.

I do have 6.5. I did all that stuff except kill TouchFlo which I like but who wants to put up with stuff like that? My ringers stop working. Calls show up as unknown. The new notification dialog stops working and winmo peaks through. It's all poorly done and I can't imagine things getting better.