Is Windows Mobile in Danger of Becoming Software Plumbing?

[Jason Dunn]

<p><img src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com/resizer/thumbs/size/600/ppct/auto/1245860010.usr1.jpg" style="border: 0;" /></p><p>Jump over to Engadget and <a href="http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/24/htc-hero-details-begin-leaking-from-htcs-own-website/" target="_blank">watch the video they've posted</a> of the newly-announced HTC Hero, an Android-based smartphone. Look at what HTC has done in terms of porting a version of TouchFlo from Windows Mobile over to Android - but also pay attention to the apps they've added and improved. Now picture those changes and improvements flowing back to future Windows Mobile devices.&nbsp;Between all of the customs apps that HTC has slowly but surely built up (photo viewer, music player, skinned browser, weather app, etc.) and the UI of TouchFlo, Windows Mobile is becoming nothing more than plumbing....which should terrify Microsoft.&nbsp;If the OS is just plumbing, then HTC could switch to whatever OS the wish on a given device. HTC is Microsoft's biggest smartphone partner - so what does it mean to Microsoft when their biggest partner is working to undermine the user interface of their operating system? <MORE /></p><p>I can't say that I blame HTC for going down this road - Microsoft kept the user interface of Windows Mobile stuck in a <a href="http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/Star Wars Han Solo Carbonite CU.jpg" target="_blank">Han Solo carbonite freeze</a>&nbsp;for several years, completely missing the fact that no one ever liked using a stylus. Windows Mobile 6.5 brings a bunch of touch-based improvements to the table, but it doesn't seem like we'll see a real UI overhaul until Windows Mobile 7, which isn't arriving until 2010 if the rumours are to believed. Equally bad was the way that Microsoft left many of their applications out to rot in the sun. Windows Media Player Mobile, Pictures &amp; Videos, Internet Explorer Mobile - none of these applications received noteworthy improvements in years. It's only recently that we're seeing an improvement in Internet Explorer Mobile, and becoming the much-maligned (from a Web developer's point of view) IE6. Microsoft's failure to put any real effort into their applications outside of PIM improvements - and I think Windows Mobile has the best PIM apps out there today - added to the overall&nbsp;atrophy of Windows Mobile. So for HTC to forge ahead and create finger-friendly applications isn't surprising.</p><p>So looking at what HTC is doing with creating a unified experience, what do you think this will mean for Windows Mobile? Will you even know you're using a Windows Mobile phone by the end of 2009 if HTC has their way? Better yet, will you care?</p><p><em>Jason Dunn owns and operates&nbsp;<a href="http://www.thoughtsmedia.com/" target="_blank">Thoughts Media Inc.</a>, a&nbsp;<a class="iAs" href="http://www.digitalhomethoughts.com/news/show/93798/dell-s-inspiron-mini-10-reviewed.html" target="_blank">company</a>&nbsp;dedicated to creating the best in online communities. He enjoys&nbsp;<a href="http://photos.jasondunn.com/" target="_blank">photography</a>, mobile devices,&nbsp;<a href="http://www.jasondunn.com/" target="_blank">blogging</a>, digital media content creation/editing, and pretty much all&nbsp;<a class="iAs" href="http://www.digitalhomethoughts.com/news/show/93798/dell-s-inspiron-mini-10-reviewed.html" target="_blank">technology</a>. He lives in Calgary, Alberta, Canada with his lovely wife, and his sometimes obedient dog. He's still searching for the ultimate netbook.</em></p><p><em></em><img src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com//ppct/auto/1240336793.usr1.gif" /></p><p><strong>Do you enjoy using new hardware,&nbsp;<a class="iAs" href="http://www.digitalhomethoughts.com/news/show/93798/dell-s-inspiron-mini-10-reviewed.html" target="_blank">software</a>&nbsp;and accessories, then sharing your experience with others? Then join us on the&nbsp;<a href="http://www.thoughtsmedia.com/reviewteam.php" target="_blank">Thoughts Media Review Team</a>! We're looking for individuals who find it fun to test new gear and give their honest opinions about the experience. It's a volunteer role with some great perks. Interested?&nbsp;<a href="http://www.thoughtsmedia.com/reviewteam.php" target="_blank">Then click here for more information.</a></strong></p><p><img src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com//ppct/auto/1240336793.usr1.gif" /></p>

[Stinger]

I agree, it's a worrying trend for Microsoft. If HTC get to the stage where they're running the same UI and app on top of both Windows Mobile and Android, they'll surely question why they should pay $15 per unit to Microsoft when they're paying nothing to Google.

The problems are all of Microsoft's own making unfortunately. You rightly pointed out that they've left the non-enterprise apps to rot. I'd still be using a Windows Mobile phone if the browser, media player and camera were up to scratch.

[paschott]

I care, but mostly because I've got a lot of WM apps and really don't want to re-purchase them for other platforms. MS really has dropped the ball on WM and is now frantically playing catch-up. Of course, I still like WM overall because it's very flexible, but am saddened that MS has fallen so far behind and really, really missed the opportunity they had w/ the vast number of users on their devices.

Be interesting to see how this ultimately plays out, but hoping MS will really make major changes in WM7 so they don't completely drop out of the market. I definitely don't want to hand this market over to Apple, even if the iPhone has a great UI. It's pretty clear that the iPhone is catching-up with features that have been available on other platforms for some time (but of course, they're new and revolutionary when Apple implements them :) ).

I'd also agree that MS needs to update some of those core apps rather than leaving "opportunities" for 3rd parties. New internet program, new media player, touch or stylus friendly - all of these would really help. If they can integrate their Zune Marketplace into the system somehow, that would also help.

[emuelle1]

I can't say I'll care. I still follow Windows Mobile news, but I jumped ship for the iPhone back in April. I'm not likely to go back unless a drastic change of course happens not only on Windows Mobile but in the WM ecosystem. We can all be reasonably certain that will not happen.

[efjay]

Maybe it will be a blessing in disguise. If every manufacturer dumps WM maybe then MS will produce their own phone and judging from the Zune HD hardware they could make a pretty good device.

[petvas]

This trend is certainly a problem for Microsoft but they are to blame here...
Microsoft has neglected Windows Mobile for many years. There are also conflicting products inside of Microsoft that don't use Windows Mobile.
Windows Mobile should be the base OS for all Zune devices (for example). Microsoft should also change its upgrade policy, by providing OS Updates to all devices that can run them...I have an HTC Touch HD and it won't be getting an upgrade to Windows Mobile 6.5. Why Microsoft???

[Russ Smith]

It's not just the apps. It's also the way they can work together. Consider that the iPhone is only now adding cut-and-paste as an OS feature (rather than a hack). Plumbing can be very important. The question is whether you can communicate that importance to the non-technical user.

[j2inet]

I don't think we are yet at the point of the HTC UI being a threat. Not to undermind the importance of a good UI but for now it is only an interface and by itself not a significant thread to the WM space. UI frameworks that abstract the underlying operating system away are not a new thing (thinking of Java Swing, and Qt (http://www.qtsoftware.com/)).

IMO the bigger threat would be technologies that can be used to both provide a UI and envelope functionality such as Flash. As the OS becomes further abstracted it becomes easier to make a move from one OS to another while minimizine (if not eliminating) the amount of code that would need to be changed in an application to make it compatible with another platform

Microsoft has the ability to make such frameworks too (Silverlight for one, though portions of the .Net framework have been ported to other operating systems too). When Silverlight gets ported to Symbian and if it gets ported to Android then the playing field could change from being WM vs Andoid vs Symbian vs iPhone to Flash vs Silverlight vs iPhone for general purpose applications.

[Twain]

... so what does it mean to Microsoft when their biggest partner is working to undermine the user interface of their operating system?

I pretty much agree with the posters. Microsoft has completely abdicated their role in developing a fresh user interface that keeps up with the times. HTC, being an enterprising (and hungry) mobile phone vendor, decided to offer innovation in areas that Microsoft either would or could not. At least HTC appears to be considering what consumers want.

I would agree that Microsoft dropped the ball on WM, but would otherwise disagree when Paschott says,

MS really has dropped the ball on WM and is now frantically playing catch-up.

Until Windows Mobile 7 comes out, I will reserve judgement on whether or not they are "frantically" doing anything. There has been much heat on WM7 but so far, no light -- Zune HD previews notwithstanding.

I also agree with Jason's sentiments on the mobile applications. Microsoft can't seem to follow through and "stick to it" on anything except for Internet Explorer and Office type applications. They have recently discontinued the PC-based Money application and long ago dropped efforts on the mobile edition of the product. Very disappointing given that all my efforts to keep my finances synchronized and available at my fingertips has gone to waste.

By the way, did anyone else lose all of their stored locations in the "update" to Bing Mobile?

[bendy]

I can't say I'll care. I still follow Windows Mobile news, but I jumped ship for the iPhone"

I have done the same for the 3gs. I have been a big fan of WM for years but it just has not moved on and is not coherent in the way OS 3 is. Yes it has annoyances but way less than WM.

Sadly I feel like i backed the wrong horse and i wont be going back there

[emuelle1]

Bendy, same here. I spent tons of money on Windows Mobile devices over the years, then realized that I was having the same fundamental problems on WM 6.1 that I did on 2002. I had no hopes for 6.5 or 7. I'm sure there will be some cosmetic improvements, but I doubt any of the underlying issues will be addressed. I'm also tired of being held hostage to the OEMs for updates.

The iPhone isn't perfect, but at least I don't have to reboot it 5 or more times a day, and it gets frequent updates.

[yawanag]

[QUOTE=Twain;709228]I pretty much agree with the posters. Microsoft has completely abdicated their role in developing a fresh user interface that keeps up with the times. HTC, being an enterprising (and hungry) mobile phone vendor, decided to offer innovation in areas that Microsoft either would or could not. At least HTC appears to be considering what consumers want.

I would agree that Microsoft dropped the ball on WM, but would otherwise disagree when Paschott says,



Until Windows Mobile 7 comes out, I will reserve judgement on whether or not they are "frantically" doing anything. There has been much heat on WM7 but so far, no light -- Zune HD previews notwithstanding.
QUOTE]

I became exasperated with MS when they seemed never to come up with a fix for MS Reader. I think of all the money I spent for ebooks and since WM 5 have been able to read them.

[Ekkie Tepsupornchai]

I feel like I've been with Microsoft almost from the very beginning when I first purchased my Casio EM-500 with the PPC 2002 OS. Back then the features / capabilities outweighed the simplicity and ease-of-use of prior Palm devices. Really... looking back, it seems MS did enough to beat Palm and then sat still... doing little-to-nothing in advancing the platform.

I still vaguely recall you (and possibly Janak) going to some sort of user feedback sessions as MVPs asking for the (seemingly) most basic of changes (e.g. having the X button actually close an application) and being turned away without any legitimate rationale.

Apathy for the WM platform continues to grow, as I find myself more and more interested in what Palm is doing with the WebOS or how Google will continue to form Android than what MS is doing with WM. Just my 2 cents.

[griph]

I dont think HTC are undermining WinMo at all - if anything they are trying to maintain user interest in an OS that is out of date, suffering from too little too late, and faced by tough market competition in a recession. If it wasnt for HTC's bolt on's WinMo looks tired and unfriendly with features that have changed little in the 9 years since it came out! MS should be grateful that HTC are still so heavily into the platform - but in the face of tough competition, they have to compete and if MS aren't exactly showing their enthusiasm to innovate at a reasonable speed, no one should be knocking HTC for stepping up to the plate.

[Russ Smith]

To each his own as it were, but I can't see jumping ship yet. WM offers expansion capabilities limited by the media (not by the phone). I've got all kinds of data sitting on my 16GB microSD that I can view, edit, and otherwise manipulate right on my SmartPhone. WM has supported keyboards since before it was WM. WM is the underlying reason why something like the Celio RedFly (http://www.celiocorp.com/) is even possible. Even the flaws of WM (eg: IE's and PocketWord's lack of features) are overcome with 3rd party software.s

Could it be better? You bet. I still think the advantages outweigh the lacks.

[jeisner]

Maybe it will be a blessing in disguise. If every manufacturer dumps WM maybe then MS will produce their own phone and judging from the Zune HD hardware they could make a pretty good device.

I don't see this as a reality.. Toshiba are coming out with a phone sporting a 1ghz processor and 4.1" screen (TG01).. Samsung has 4 new omnias coming out, Sony is releasing a second xperia (WM) phone with rumurs of an expanded range, Acer is releasing new high end WM phones.. I thought WM was dying too 6-12 months ago, but really it seems to be picking up quality vendors not losing them..

As for an OS being plumbing thats the strength IMO (and is what traditionally an OS should be), I don't use an iphone as I don't want to be TOLD how to interact with my phone.. I want to customise the hell out of it and have the OS provide the backbone (as an OS should) not determine what I am allowed to do in an overhanded way...

On a lighter note it is interesting to me that the article is about HTC undermining the UI of windows mobile with all their addons and the example for android is the HTC Hero where HTC have undermined google by replacing the UI with their own... ;-)

[Russ Smith]

jeisner: My point exactly, but more succinctly put than I.

This has always been the difference between Microsoft and Apple: Apple is a hardware company that makes (some pretty good) software in order to sell the hardware. Microsoft is a software company that occasionally dabbles in hardware but generally remains focused on providing the software that makes other folks hardware work.

Apple succeeds by narrowly focusing the hardware and software. It's great when it does what you want and annoying and frustrating when it doesn't. Microsoft succeeds best when it keeps things open and flexible, allowing others to innovate on their foundation.

[Fritzly]

MS moment of thruth is coming and is called WM7; it will have to be:

an OS really as good and innovative as described by the elected ones who were able to see it.

be here no later than third quarter 2010, I mean phones running WM7 available on the market

Be an OS that allow owners to update it; the time users are at the mercy of hardware manufacturers or, even worse offenders here in the US, Carriers is over.

If this will not happen WM will fade away, not in a day of course but the Darwinian law of evolution prove that you cannot seat and stay, you need to continuously evolve in order to survive.

[Janak Parekh]

Apple succeeds by narrowly focusing the hardware and software. It's great when it does what you want and annoying and frustrating when it doesn't. Microsoft succeeds best when it keeps things open and flexible, allowing others to innovate on their foundation. Sure, except I have two counterarguments:

1. Apple is not the only competitor in the playing field. You have three other major competitors: webOS, Android, and Blackberry. I don't know about webOS's flexibility yet, but both Android and Blackberry are very flexible platforms. All three are moving much faster than WM, and MS will only have some time before they catch up to WM's core strengths.

2. What's the % of the market that wants the specialized applications that only WM offers? For a long time, WM at least had a share of the enterprise market with its Exchange integration advantages, but that's evaporating; BES is still well-established, plus Apple is making huge leaps in its enterprise support with each additional release of the iPhone OS. Palm seems to be putting development efforts into this as well.

The risk is that WM will become a niche platform, and that won't be enough to sustain its development. I hope this is not the case, but Microsoft has to prove that they are capable of more than just iterative evolution, like they've been doing for years.

--janak

[oldan]

I dont think HTC are undermining WinMo at all - if anything they are trying to maintain user interest in an OS that is out of date, suffering from too little too late, and faced by tough market competition in a recession. If it wasnt for HTC's bolt on's WinMo looks tired and unfriendly with features that have changed little in the 9 years since it came out! MS should be grateful that HTC are still so heavily into the platform - but in the face of tough competition, they have to compete and if MS aren't exactly showing their enthusiasm to innovate at a reasonable speed, no one should be knocking HTC for stepping up to the plate.

I agree whole heartedly! I've been with MS since the early days too. I'm one of those people who jumped from Palm Pilot to Pocket PC. I bought an HTC Touch but after the graphics driver debacle declared that I'd never have another WinMo/HTC device.

I got a Touch Diamond as a gift and I really like it. But only, of course, after I put my own version of WinMo 6.5 ROM on it (thanks to www.ppcgeeks.com) and tricked it out with apps from xda-developers.net. Now I'm debating whether to spend my hard earned money on a Palm Pre or keep this little Diamond and put Android on it.

Either way I won't be buying another HTC/Windows Mobile device.

[karen]

I have done the same for the 3gs. I have been a big fan of WM for years but it just has not moved on and is not coherent in the way OS 3 is. Yes it has annoyances but way less than WM.

Sadly I feel like i backed the wrong horse and i wont be going back there

I'm just about to join you there. I've loved my MM phones, but the focus (pun intended) on tiny, low resolution screens has made them less and less useful to me.

Even apps that do assume finger presses under WM still present data and messages in a tiny font. After using my iPod Touch for 6 months, I'm sold on the value of a great UI and a design that does not just try to replicate a desktop experience on a tiny, unreadable screen.

I hold the Canadian telecom providers partially to blame. They refuse to offer the VGA devices and often offer only one choice for WM pro. That's just not going to meet my needs for mobile computing. Add to the fact that WM users are wedged into matching tiny data plans (30MB per month) when iPhone users get GIGs of data for the same price.

I've been putting this off for a long time, but the people who make money off all this technology and services have pretty much forced me into moving away from Microsoft.

It's crazy.

[sub_tex]

MS should ditch the current WM entirely and make a brand new WM OS from the ground up.

They're building on top of a dated platform that could do with a healthy reboot. There's nothing wrong with that. It's sort of like how windows would probably run way better if they wrote that from the ground up and left all compatibility up to a virtual machine.

Let WM 2011 be a completely new OS. Not just a pretty face over the same thing. Do what Palm did. New OS that also has an emulator for all old apps.

Keep it flexible and open so that companies like HTC can customize it as much as they can an Android device.

MS has the resources to pull this off, and do it well. I hope they do.

I would love to see 5 smartphone OSes out there that all offer their own experience. And all of them being worthy contenders.

Keep the competition going!

[WT]

The guys at Microsoft are slow. I think this year WinMo 7 should be out, 6.5 is just :mad:half better than WinMo 6

[Twain]

MS should ditch the current WM entirely and make a brand new WM OS from the ground up. ... Let WM 2011 be a completely new OS. Not just a pretty face over the same thing.

sub_text:

I don't know if you are a developer or not, but if you aren't and are mainly a user of the phones, then it's not clear to me why you believe Microsoft needs to ditch the current OS? Isn't what you care about really just the "user experience," ie, how you interact with the device?

As a part-time developer, who has written multiple Windows Mobile applications, I know that the Windows Mobile operating system has a rich, deep set of APIs that can be programmed against. There really is little reason to dump all of that infrastructure -- the functionality would have to be recreated anyway.

I totally agree, however, that Microsoft needs to radically transform how the user interacts with the phone. But for the most part, that is, in fact a "pretty face" over the existing OS. HTC demonstrates this point most effectively.

[jeisner]

But for the most part, that is, in fact a "pretty face" over the existing OS.

Exactly the UI != OS

[Rahza]

Exactly the UI != OS

:confused: What? are you kidding me? UI does NOT equal OS...

The UI runs on the OS. Ever noticed the overhaul HTC did with their Touch Flo 3D? Still WM 6.1 or 6.5, but different UI.

[epdm2be]

I don't think we are yet at the point of the HTC UI being a threat. Not to undermind the importance of a good UI but for now it is only an interface and by itself not a significant thread to the WM space. UI frameworks that abstract the underlying operating system away are not a new thing (thinking of Java Swing, and Qt (http://www.qtsoftware.com/)).

IMO the bigger threat would be technologies that can be used to both provide a UI and envelope functionality such as Flash. As the OS becomes further abstracted it becomes easier to make a move from one OS to another while minimizine (if not eliminating) the amount of code that would need to be changed in an application to make it compatible with another platform

Microsoft has the ability to make such frameworks too (Silverlight for one, though portions of the .Net framework have been ported to other operating systems too). When Silverlight gets ported to Symbian and if it gets ported to Android then the playing field could change from being WM vs Andoid vs Symbian vs iPhone to Flash vs Silverlight vs iPhone for general purpose applications.

What you're writing here is a very interesting thought. Of indeed apps and UI becomes free from the OS then we'll see some real performance differences.

The fun part is that all these mobile devices run more or less the same cpu, carry similar gfx- and additional chips (like gps etc...). In fact look at the new spur of Samsung devices. They're basicly the same device with another OS/UI combi (S8000/i8000). Yet the S8000 is blindingly fast. So would that mean that we might be able to buy e.g. a HTC Diamond II and remove WM6/7 and install Android on it so that basicly becomes an HTC Magic? Like you're installing Linux on your Dell PC which came pre-installed with Vista. This is really interesting.

By then the site better changes it's name? PocketDevicesThoughts perhaps.

Also if I look at the sales o/t LG Cookie and Samsung Star which both run proprietary OS and are feature packed devices with touch screens then it's clear that M$ HAS to wake up. There is a shift that future (handheld) computing/coms devices will be ARM-powered with ARM-compatible OS's. The best (best performance/price ratio) will win.

Anyway the problem is not only M$. Their partners make dumbass decisisions as well. HTC is making catastrophical mistakes with their latest devices by removing features instead of enhancing the machines. E.g. Touch diamond... no flash, Touch pro... keyboard and LED flash. Sure that LED is more usefull as small lamp then an actual flash. But I use that lamp more often than taking pictures. The Daimond II and Pro II... NO LED flash?!?! WTF. If you look at even their biggest competitor the Samsung Omnia. Samsung not only provides a flash on all recent devices. In the case o/t Omnia you can even assing a button to fire up the lamp.

I think that in the case of HTC. They're more concentrated on their Touchflo and using large resolution displays while Samsung go for the best in overal functionality.

BTW. I recently played with that HTC magic in a store and I was surprised that that device has practically no lag compared to HTC Diamond HD. But again it has no LED lamp which I require. (For god's sake, even 99 USD dumb phones from Sony Erricsson can use the LED-light as a lamp).

[epdm2be]

[QUOTE=Twain;709228]I pretty much agree with the posters. Microsoft has completely abdicated their role in developing a fresh user interface that keeps up with the times. HTC, being an enterprising (and hungry) mobile phone vendor, decided to offer innovation in areas that Microsoft either would or could not. At least HTC appears to be considering what consumers want.

I would agree that Microsoft dropped the ball on WM, but would otherwise disagree when Paschott says,



Until Windows Mobile 7 comes out, I will reserve judgement on whether or not they are "frantically" doing anything. There has been much heat on WM7 but so far, no light -- Zune HD previews notwithstanding.
QUOTE]

I became exasperated with MS when they seemed never to come up with a fix for MS Reader. I think of all the money I spent for ebooks and since WM 5 have been able to read them.

You can also wonder. Why should M$ be responsible for the UI? Let M$ provide the ground-work (core OS) and let others create their own UI. It seems that both HTC (TouchFlow), LG (S-Class) and Samsung (TouchWiz) are doing a fine job. Every new generation of devices has (albeit small) UI improvements without M$ intervention.

I'm beginning to think that perhaps it's better to let M$ just create the core OS. Let the third parties create their own UI perhaps even an Open source UI which can run on top of M$ CE (or whatever it's called these days). Ofcourse then you can also wonder why we just shouldn't ditch M$ altogether and just go for Android (which is fully open source).

Hmmm, a dilema indeed.

[Janak Parekh]

You can also wonder. Why should M$ be responsible for the UI? Let M$ provide the ground-work (core OS) and let others create their own UI. It seems that both HTC (TouchFlow), LG (S-Class) and Samsung (TouchWiz) are doing a fine job. Every new generation of devices has (albeit small) UI improvements without M$ intervention. It makes for a highly fragmented developer experience, however. Having one cohesive UI is critical, even moreso on mobile devices than desktops with their limited screen real estate and specialized input methods, when you want to have third-party apps. Think of the UNIX UI situation (i.e., GNOME, KDE, and many others) as applied to mobile devices.

--janak

[jeisner]

The UI runs on the OS. Ever noticed the overhaul HTC did with their Touch Flo 3D? Still WM 6.1 or 6.5, but different UI.

Exactly my point the UI runs ON the OS, so the UI IS NOT the OS (in a lot of ways)...

As you said HTC replaced a large aspect of the UI without replacing the OS...

The point is, to me, not everyone wants the same UI (except iphone users) and so one strength of WM (and android) is that the vendors can make their own UI. So within the framework of the one OS you can still have many different UIs to suit different people.. Then you can look at freeware apps like fingersuite that makes even more UI changes at a lower level (something I think HTC should pick up on to make their UI more complete)...

Really MS don't need to change all that much, the home screen is being looked after by the vendors and 3rd party tools, and everyone wants it to look different anyway. MS just need to pick up some minor changes like fingersuite to make popup boxes and menus more finger friendly and more kinetic scrolling on all text and list boxes etc like is offered by ftouchsl and they would have covered a hell of a lot of the gap (notice 3rd party apps already provide these UI changes, something Apple for example would never allow as they assume everyone wants the same device. Which I conceed it seems many do at the moment, but that will wear off eventually).

[kdarling]

I've worked with Windows CE and Mobile for about a decade, I guess.

I think Microsoft always figured it was up to third parties to create a better UI. They'd been slammed for forcing things down throats, and tended to go too far the other way.

On Windows CE, this was often the case. It was used in many applications because it was a very stable programming base with fairly rich APIs, that companies would cover up with their own UI... from kiosks, to home control, to field tech usages. Heck, even Apple Stores use WinCE handhelds.

This hands-off philosophy unfortunately carried over to Windows Mobile, where it was less appropriate. Microsoft rarely updated any of their core apps, again I think simply because they thought for sure that third parties would come up with their own, if the Microsoft ones were too terrible to use.

The trouble was, the MS apps weren't horrible. They just weren't great or fun to use. But they got the job done, and no phone maker wanted to pour extra money into doing their own thing.... until HTC came along and Samsung caught the bug as well. LG might even be getting into it bigtime with their new 3D UIs.

[Janak Parekh]

This hands-off philosophy unfortunately carried over to Windows Mobile, where it was less appropriate. Microsoft rarely updated any of their core apps, again I think simply because they thought for sure that third parties would come up with their own, if the Microsoft ones were too terrible to use. That's an interesting perspective, but I think it ignores a lot of CE, Pocket PC and Windows Mobile history.

First off, HPC, PSPC and its ilk were specifically CE devices with the Microsoft UI. If anything, Microsoft put extra effort to make it look like Windows on the desktop, with the bottom Start Menu and the like. I disagree that Microsoft skimped on the UI work here, or on Pocket PC, where the redesign was considered a major simplification. Additionally, Microsoft put a ton of effort into the apps on Pocket PC 2000, including Microsoft Reader, which was a big investment into ebooks before anyone else, WMP, etc.

The problem is that Microsoft stopped focusing on these consumer apps sometime in the middle of the decade, and started focusing on the enterprise. This worked well for them for a while, but the recent trends towards effective combinations of consumer and enterprise-grade solutions caught them by surprise.

--janak

[sub_tex]

sub_text:

I don't know if you are a developer or not, but if you aren't and are mainly a user of the phones, then it's not clear to me why you believe Microsoft needs to ditch the current OS? Isn't what you care about really just the "user experience," ie, how you interact with the device?

I am a developer yes. And when stuff runs slow or poorly, I tend to fault the structure. I don't think any of the APIs need to be changed. The dev-facing API doesn't need to change at all, just the plumbing behind all that.

I think MS needs to really think about what a mobile OS in 2009+ needs, build around that, and flush out everything else. I find it hard to believe that a mobile OS build in the PPC days and patched to what it is now is an efficient, tight machine.

[timlayton]

I am not sure the argument about windows mobile becoming plumbing is really an issue to anyone including microsoft. I would love to have my plumbing installed on millions and millions of devices and smartphones all over the globe. The licensing fee is a beautiful business model. Not clear on what the issue would be even if it were true and I don't think it is very likely. People love to talk about things and especially when things don't happen on their own timelines. I think MS had made very smart moves and in this turbulent market, I think we will see their wisdom in the long run.

[timlayton]

I am not sure the argument about windows mobile becoming plumbing is really an issue to anyone including microsoft. I would love to have my plumbing installed on millions and millions of devices and smartphones all over the globe. The licensing fee is a beautiful business model. Not clear on what the issue would be even if it were true and I don't think it is very likely. People love to talk about things and especially when things don't happen on their own timelines. I think MS had made very smart moves and in this turbulent market, I think we will see their wisdom in the long run.