Rampant Rumour: The Microsoft Phone, Powered by Nvidia?

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.itnews.com.au/News/89639,microsoft-makes-a-phone-with-nvidia.aspx' target='_blank'>http://www.itnews.com.au/News/89639...ith-nvidia.aspx</a><br /><br /></div><p><em>"What do you get if you take an iPhone, remove the clean UI, user friendliness, nice industrial design, battery life, cachet, functional OS, and in general everything else that makes it worthwhile? The new Microsoft phone, powered by Nvidia. Yeah, you heard it right, MS is going to make its own branded phone, after all, everyone kicking the company around the block has one, so it should too! If you were wondering why Nvidia never mentions the phrase Linux when talking Tegra, even though it is the most appropriate OS for the chip, now you know. NV appears to have sold Linux out to get the MS flagship deal, how nice of them"</em></p><p>This is easily the snarkiest, most acid-dripping hack job I've seen in months - and I was shocked until I saw that it's syndicated content from <a href="http://www.theinquirer.net/" target="_blank">The Inquirer</a>...then it all made sense to me. Putting aside the ridiculous excuse for journalism - it's really an editorial, not a news story - there are some interesting rumours. Is this the fabled Zune phone? Or some other phone-based project? I refuse to believe that Microsoft would sacrifice all their gains with Windows Mobile partners all over the world by releasing their own Windows Mobile phone - that's just not going to happen, despite some people believing that it's the only way we're going to get the "ultimate" Windows Mobile phone. Is this a Zune phone then? Possibly. When you consider that the third-generation Zune hardware is identical to the second-generation hardware other than a capacity bump, the Zune team has had to be working on something. If Microsoft did release a Zune phone, they'd cause major rifts with their Windows Mobile partners, and those partnerships are worth a lot more to Microsoft than the MP3 player partners they alienated when they released the Zune.</p><p>2009 is going to be a very interesting year, that's for sure!</p><p><strong>UPDATE:</strong> <a href="http://www.cnbc.com/id/27912313" target="_blank">CNBC says this phone is code-named "Pink"</a>, but doesn't have much else to say about it.</p>

[alese]

Even a Zune phone - not "true" WM device would probably be a mistake.

They would alienate their WM partners with such a move, since even the dumbest Zune phone would eventually evolve into much smarter device competing with WM devices.
At the end the only one benefiting from that would be Google and Android, as HTC would put much more of their efforts and resources towards Android devices and not WM devices. And for what is worth while G1 looks OK, Touch Diamond/PRO/HD still look better and have better features, but I'm sure HTC can quickly catch up the WM devices with Android if they choose to.

And not only that, but by first "screwing" MP3 manufacturers and possibly doing the same with mobile phones, I guess Dell, HP, Asus, Acer... would start wandering when Microsoft would do the same and "go Apple" also in Windows/Intel space...

[virain]

I think MS will do the same thing as Intel with its MIDs and Moblin OS. Design them, shows them and license or sell the design to manufacturers.

[Rocco Augusto]

I think a Zune phone would be a great idea. Leave Windows Mobile to the hardware manufactures as a business platform since a lot of businesses like the fact that it looks like Windows 95 and take control of the consumer aspect.

There is no way Microsoft can make a consumer Windows Mobile where they control the hardware and software aspects of the device without upsetting the entire mobile world. That would be like shooting themselves in the face. However the Zune platform is an already established Microsoft consumer platform where it is already in the consumer minds and would make sense for Microsoft to extend that line.

Everyone made a big stink about the Zune being made fun of on Chuck a few weeks back but what they forgot to realize was the Zune was big enough as a product line that you can could rag on it on national TV and a large majority of the audiance would get the joke.

This is a good move for Microsoft if it happens and it is at a good time as well. Microsoft is starting to become boring but something like this can help make them exciting again... hopefully the web browser wont be IE6, thats all I ask :)

[Stinger]

I refuse to believe that Microsoft would sacrifice all their gains with Windows Mobile partners all over the world by releasing their own Windows Mobile phone - that's just not going to happen, despite some people believing that it's the only way we're going to get the "ultimate" Windows Mobile phone.

They did it with their DAP partners so why not their smartphone partners?

Now that Microsoft own Danger, they've got all of the expertise in-house or they could simply outsource the hardware design to HTC. And let's face it, HTC are the only manufacturer to have mastered the art of Windows Mobile phones. The others could be sacrificed without much significance.

[Fritzly]

If Microsoft did release a Zune phone, they'd cause major rifts with their Windows Mobile partners, and those partnerships are worth a lot more to Microsoft than the MP3 player partners they alienated when they released the Zune.

Why? MS set all the specs both for the hardware and the software and send the order to HTC which will produce the device branded as Microsoft. Both would make money and probably WINMO could be rescued.

[Russ Smith]

(Almost) sorry about the pun.
Microsoft has always been a software company that dabbles in hardware in order to sell their software. (Contrast with Apple which makes software in order to sell their hardware.)

So, it makes little sense, given the business model, for MS to make it's own phone. Mayhaps it's like nVidia's own reference designs, that XFX and eVGA take and make into commercial motherboards; sort of like the "concept cars" that auto manufacturers put out. That is, of course, if it actually exists and isn't just the figment bug-a-boo of the inquirer's imagination.

I'll agree with Jason. The "article" is a hack-job of the worst kind.
The last time I saw "journalism" of this caliber was just before November 4th (election day). I didn't like it then either.

[whydidnt]

The rumor I've head is that the "Zune Phone" is not going to be WM device, but a combined Zune/Sidekick. This is what a columnist at CNBC is reporting: http://www.cnbc.com//id/27912313. However, it very well could just be a that they are adding the Zune media interface to a beefed up sidekick. In any event, I think it's a good business decision, as Microsoft's OEM partners have been very slow to innovate and been a significant part of the reason many of us feel Windows Mobile has devices no longer measure up.

[inteller]

here is the problem, Microsoft has allowed carriers to bastardize various Winmo distributions from the hardware manufacturers while Apple has basically been able to get away with murder (activating a phone with non carrier software? blasphemous!)

Look at the recent winmo offerings and how little they are subsidized compared to the iPhone. It is almost illicit at the way Apple is operating. You mean to tell me a Smartphone costs MORE than an iPhone on 2 yr contract?


I think Microsoft is taking back the reins here and building a full featured phone that they will take to a carrier like Verizon or Sprint and say "you want a brand name phone to compete with the iPhone here it is and you can't attach any conditions"

I think anyone would love to take on ATT with an alternative, but they have to let Microsoft do what they want, that means not ripping out features of WinMo or installing carrier proprietary junk.

If no carriers bite at that then Microsoft can still go out on their own and heavily subsidize the phone as unlocked WCDMA and go global with it. They have the money to pull it off. This would open them up to more retail channels than the iPhone currently has because it is tied to ATT dealers.

[Jason Dunn]

Everyone made a big stink about the Zune being made fun of on Chuck a few weeks back but what they forgot to realize was the Zune was big enough as a product line that you can could rag on it on national TV and a large majority of the audiance would get the joke.

Yeah, I agree - I meant to write that up for Zune Thoughts but didn't get to it. The fact that the Zune has attained enough mindshare to be made fun of is really important. Mockery or not, there's no other MP3 player brand on the market right now that has enough mindshare, even with a geeky audience like Chuck has, to work in a set-up against the iPod.

[Jason Dunn]

Why? MS set all the specs both for the hardware and the software and send the order to HTC which will produce the device branded as Microsoft. Both would make money and probably WINMO could be rescued.

Why? You don't think Samsung, Motorola, and even HTC would be unhappy to have a Microsoft-branded phone competing with them in the marketplace, with the carriers, etc? Trust me, they'd be angry in a big way.

[whydidnt]

Why? You don't think Samsung, Motorola, and even HTC would be unhappy to have a Microsoft-branded phone competing with them in the marketplace, with the carriers, etc? Trust me, they'd be angry in a big way.

I think that's probably why the Danger platform is where we'll see this. However, even it was the WM platform, I'm sure Microsoft would have figured this in. The question in their mind, however, should be how to best advance the platform and make money. To date, Samsung, Motorola, Palm and HTC all have been woefully slow in innovating with Windows Mobile. Microsoft shares blame because they haven't exactly been pushing the envelope regarding the software, but the OEMs have been limiting hardware advances. That combined with lack of control over the end product, updates etc. has to be embarrasing to Microsoft.

[onlydarksets]

Yeah, I agree - I meant to write that up for Zune Thoughts but didn't get to it. The fact that the Zune has attained enough mindshare to be made fun of is really important. Mockery or not, there's no other MP3 player brand on the market right now that has enough mindshare, even with a geeky audience like Chuck has, to work in a set-up against the iPod.
I already did it for you :D
http://forums.thoughtsmedia.com/f5/why-nbc-kicking-zune-91120.html

[Xentrax]

I don't really care for vendors. I was really happy when I heard about Danger.

And now I am just wating for phone developed by Microsoft and Microsoft-branded notebook. I am so frustrated by crapware in notebooks (they even give you recovery DVDs so that you could restore that crapware).

Also I hate buggy drivers and buggy hardware that vendors use to minimize price of their board designs.

Little bit of a *real* competition is needed in the Windows market.

Still, I don't think that MS will produce brilliant thing form the first attempt ... Maybe in 1-2 years...

[Fritzly]

Why? You don't think Samsung, Motorola, and even HTC would be unhappy to have a Microsoft-branded phone competing with them in the marketplace, with the carriers, etc? Trust me, they'd be angry in a big way.

Of course they would be unhappy... as well as Microsoft watching HTC producing Android.
As it is WM outlook is not a bright one to say the least so MS needs to take action.
IF MS could drop a phone with new specs and obviously a new OS, a phone that people love and rush to buy you would see Samsung, Motorola, etc. willing to pay even more in order to be able to use the new OS. This is the way the market works.

[Fritzly]

Still, I don't think that MS will produce brilliant thing form the first attempt ... Maybe in 1-2 years...

Actually while, up to a certain point, I agree with your statement about MS software my personal exprience with MS hardware have alway been excellent.
I remember when they launched the Wireless routers line: great hardware, very easy setup; why they discontinued it is still a mystery to me.

[virain]

Of course they would be unhappy... as well as Microsoft watching HTC producing Android.
As it is WM outlook is not a bright one to say the least so MS needs to take action.
IF MS could drop a phone with new specs and obviously a new OS, a phone that people love and rush to buy you would see Samsung, Motorola, etc. willing to pay even more in order to be able to use the new OS. This is the way the market works.
Didn't work that well for Palm, or Symbian, ah?

[Stinger]

Why? You don't think Samsung, Motorola, and even HTC would be unhappy to have a Microsoft-branded phone competing with them in the marketplace, with the carriers, etc? Trust me, they'd be angry in a big way.

Samsung doesn't have a coherent smartphone strategy. Motorola and Sony Ericsson are going bust fast. And I assume any Microsoft-branded phone would be manufactured by HTC. You've got three largely irrelevant companies that would be angry and one that would be pretty happy.

Microsoft has got some big challenges ahead. All of its rivals are either soon to be open source/free (Symbian, Android) or have tight hardware integration (Mobile OSX, BB OS). Microsoft needs to join one of the camps soon and I can't see it going down the free, open source route.

[kdarling]

Just as a side note:

Microsoft sold 18 million WM licenses between July 2007 - July 2008.

Even Apple uses Windows WM/CE handhelds in its stores.

[Fritzly]

Just as a side note:

Microsoft sold 18 million WM licenses between July 2007 - July 2008.

Even Apple uses Windows WM/CE handhelds in its stores.

Few observations:

Sold licenses are not sold phones
Sales of the OS licenses came short of MS own projections
MS employees use iPhones

Btw I a not an Apple fan, I am a concerned MS shareholder. (-:

[Rocco Augusto]

They did it with their DAP partners so why not their smartphone partners?

Now that Microsoft own Danger, they've got all of the expertise in-house or they could simply outsource the hardware design to HTC. And let's face it, HTC are the only manufacturer to have mastered the art of Windows Mobile phones. The others could be sacrificed without much significance.

This is true, Microsoft is not above what they like to call "knifing the baby." And usually when Microsoft does decide to filet a youngster it always happens to be Windows Mobile.

[Rocco Augusto]

...even with a geeky audience like Chuck has, to work in a set-up against the iPod.

We prefer "nerds" ;) :P

[Rocco Augusto]

Few observations:

Sold licenses are not sold phones...

True but Microsoft makes money off of the licenses and not the hardware. I'm sure Microsoft could care less if a company like HTC has 2 million unsold WM phones sitting in a warehouse somewhere as HTC has already paid them for the Windows Mobile platform. This is one of the reasons why I think Steve Balmer is confused about Android since technically it is not cutting into their revenue stream... yet.

[virain]

True but Microsoft makes money off of the licenses and not the hardware. I'm sure Microsoft could care less if a company like HTC has 2 million unsold WM phones sitting in a warehouse somewhere as HTC has already paid them for the Windows Mobile platform. This is one of the reasons why I think Steve Balmer is confused about Android since technically it is not cutting into their revenue stream... yet.
True, but if HTC has 2 mil unsold phones, MS might care about future sales, any "concerned shareholder" understands it. And I own Android G1 and I am not concern about it cutting into MS revinue stream, as Google OS is better position to fight iPhone, not WM, and BTW I just pre order HTC Touch HD. No US 3G, but it is a small sacrifice for the rest functionality of WM.

[soho_1]

So Jason, what I hear you saying is that Microsoft values its relationships with its vendors more than its relationships with end users.

[Jason Dunn]

I remember when they launched the Wireless routers line: great hardware, very easy setup; why they discontinued it is still a mystery to me.

Indeed - the Microsoft networking hardware was absolutely fantastic. My theory is that they exited that market so they could gain the support of Linksys, Dlink, etc. for their zero-config WiFi setup system. No one could cooperate with them so long as they were a competitor.

[Jason Dunn]

So Jason, what I hear you saying is that Microsoft values its relationships with its vendors more than its relationships with end users.

That's one way of looking at it, but a Windows Mobile team member would say that they value their partners and have faith in their ability to bring great devices to the market.

Remember Microsoft as a whole is still a platform company - they build the software, their partners create the hardware, and everyone makes money. Things like the Xbox and the Zune are still quite counter-cultural within Microsoft as a whole.

[MAK11]

MS puts an end to this nonsense started but the Inq :
Schaeffer's Market Blog: Source Denies Microsoft Smartphone Rumors (http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20081126005661&newsLang=en)

[Jason Dunn]

MS puts an end to this nonsense started but the Inq :
Schaeffer's Market Blog: Source Denies Microsoft Smartphone Rumors (http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20081126005661&newsLang=en)

A nameless source? That's not exactly definitive...

[Kirkaiya]

Has anyone else looked at NVidia's "demo" of the user-interface of their (still in prototype stage) smartphone?

See http://www.nvidia.com/object/mobile_games_demos.html

Granted, this a flash demo of a UI that likely doesn't exist in full form yet - but according to CNet and others, it's capable of playing 720p HD video with quality equivalent to a desktop, and the reference hardware/prototype has a mini-HDMI output, and was demoed hooked up to an HDTV, and handled playback there as well.

According to Wikipedia, the smartphone version of the Tegra chip, the Tegra APX 2500, runs at 600 MHz, and integrates a video-processor handling 854 x 480 resolution (seemingly for games, slick finger-flick GUI, etc.) and a "LCD controller support resolutions up to 1680x1050" for external playback.

Oh - and the entire thing is layered on top of Windows Mobile, a la TouchFLO 3D. But if NVidia's chip is even half as fantastic as they're claiming, it could convievably be as responsible as an iPhone, but with a display and video processing power that would represent a discrete jump in performance.

Their concept, at least, approaches what I believe is the near-term future for a lot of people's use of the internet: many (if not most) people will only own a next-gen smartphone; they'll just hook it to their HDTV's and a wireless keyboard at home, when they want to surf the web on a big screen, or work on documents/spreadsheets, and watch movies they've downloaded. Then they yank it out of the docking station (or yank the mini-HDMI cable) and take all of the storage & processing power with them as their mobile phone. With screens of 854x480, or better, it's effectively a netbook-class computer anyway.

I have no idea whether Nvidia's Tegra can save Microsoft's WinMo bacon, but it beats the hell out of just releasing WM 6.5, and waiting another 10 months for WM7 while Android and RIM eat their lunch.

Hopefully this is a sign that Microsoft actually [I]has a strategy, and maybe we just weren't aware of it.