Windows 7: "Impressive At Every Turn"

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.downloadsquad.com/2008/11/01/windows-7-hands-on-impressive-at-every-turn/' target='_blank'>http://www.downloadsquad.com/2008/1...-at-every-turn/</a><br /><br /></div><p><em>"With the Microsoft PDC recently wrapping up, excitement has been building for Windows 7. I wonder, will it be able to live up to the hype? There's only one way to find out: install it and see for myself. This is by no means a complete analysis of the OS, rather my observations from the first few days of experimenting with it. The Aero interface has been refined, and it's leaner and meaner than before. Visual effects look superb and are silky smooth, even on less powerful hardware like a Celeron M520 laptop with Intel integrated graphics. Even with all the Aero Glass effects enabled, battery life didn't take a substantial hit (I noticed anywhere from 15 to 20 minutes less on a 5.5 hour battery). Need to move a full screen window? Just click the title bar and start dragging - no need to click restore first, it will automatically resize. The reverse works as well: drag a window to the top edge of your screen, and Windows will maximize it."</em></p><p><img src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com/resizer/thumbs/size/600/dht/auto/1226100358.usr1.jpg" border="1" /></p><p>I'm seeing something very interesting happening here: the praise for Windows 7, even though the software is still raw and uncooked, is almost universally positive. Is the impression of Vista so negative, that Windows 7 looks great in comparison? Or has Microsoft taken the criticism on Vista seriously and really dug down deep to improve Windows 7? I suspect the latter - Microsoft doesn't always make the right decisions, but they do seem to learn from their mistakes. I'm going to try slapping my Windows 7 copy onto my HP tx2500...I have no idea what to expect, but I figure I might as well give it a try!</p>

[onlydarksets]

I've been playing with it for most of today in a VHD (which has no hardware acceleration, so Peek, Shake, and the rest of the Aero experience is missing). It's what Vista should have been. UAC works (instead of getting in the way), the tweaks to the Aero interface show why Aero was necessary (in Vista it seemed like a useless toy).

When you try it out, don't forget to unlock the new Taskbar (http://www.withinwindows.com/2008/11/02/flashy-windows-7-bits-protected-by-elaborate-scheme-workaround/).

[JKingGrim]

I tried it with the new taskbar. Had mixed feelings at first but it grew on me. I do NOT like the Mac Dock. I like the windows style of a windows based task bar rather than mac style application based dock. As I played with it more it grew on me though. I like that when I hover over an app's icon previews of all it's windows popup, making it easy to find what I wanted. Also, apps can put controls in their preview. Hover over WMP's icon and a preview pops up accompanied by play/pause and other controls. You can also tell how many windows an app has open just by looking at its button on the bar. I think I will end up liking it.

[BugDude10]

I'm not tech enough to have played with 7 myself, and I haven't been reading *all* of the news about 7 either, but...

From what I *have* read, it doesn't seem like 7 is *all* that different than Vista, so perhaps the praise for 7 is evidence that Microsoft was right about the Mojave Experiment.

Of course, I could be wrong. :o

[alanjrobertson]

I agree, the coverage so far seems to have been universally positive. In particular I've been impressed with the way such an early (pre) beta has been installing and running on netbook-size devices with reasonable responsiveness and power consumption.

Will be very interested to hear how you get on with installing in on the HP TX2500, Jason - that's what I've got and it looks hopeful I'll be upgrading whenever Windows 7 comes out!

[Jason Dunn]

Will be very interested to hear how you get on with installing in on the HP TX2500, Jason - that's what I've got and it looks hopeful I'll be upgrading whenever Windows 7 comes out!

I'm not entirely sure how my NDA works here - though it seems everyone is talking about Windows 7 - but what I will say is that it installed quickly and easily, and after I installed the Vista drivers for the WiFi card, I was able to start playing with it. A few unidentified devices, like the biometric fingerprint reader, didn't work right, but everything else seemed to work OK. Performance was snappy, though it's pretty snappy with Vista and 4 GB RAM.

[John Lane]

I am someone who is very unhappy with Vista. I bought XP the day it came out because Microsoft was offering all these deals. I loved it and still love it. But it is long in the tooth.

So when Vista came out, all the reviews said it was nothing new but eye candy. But that's not true.

I am now constantly using other programs to do what I consider o/s functions. I have had many issues with just copying files. So now I use beyond compare. I hate the new search, so now I use google desktop search. I hate the way my computer, a new one with Vista with 3GB of RAM, feels like it goes on a smoke break every once in a while. It comes back, but I would love to know what the heck it was doing.

It is fairly stable - no bsod's. But some programs run worse under Vista.

I also don't like that Microsoft loves to move things JUST to move them. It's fun when you are the support guy for friends and family. Add or Remove Programs? No, that is now Programs and Features. Things like that.

But, besides my rant, my point is, before software is released, there is usually general praise for it. And then afterwards, condemnation. I dunno - there were complaints on Vista pre-release, but mainly that it didn't add much over XP.

[petvas]

Microsoft decided to keep up with the "trusted" formula:

Ctrl-C on Apple OS
Ctrl-V on Windows...

The new taskbar copies all features of the Mac Dock. I wonder where Microsoft spends all its money on research...

They copy every single feature and have stopped innovating since a long time... It is really a shame and I hope they will eventually start innovating....

Even the option to dim the display of a laptop before it goes on stand by is copied from Apple....

[onlydarksets]

The new taskbar copies all features of the Mac Dock. I wonder where Microsoft spends all its money on research...

They copy every single feature and have stopped innovating since a long time... It is really a shame and I hope they will eventually start innovating....

Even the option to dim the display of a laptop before it goes on stand by is copied from Apple....
You do realize that the Mac dock was originally a feature for feature copy of the Windows taskbar and Quick Launch, don't you? Apple borrowed the idea from Windows, packaged it a little differently, and in subsequent releases enhanced it by adding previews and animations. Vista borrowed back the previews, and Windows 7 adds some enhancements.

If you don't realize it goes both ways, you are seriously deluding yourself.

[alanjrobertson]

I'm not entirely sure how my NDA works here - though it seems everyone is talking about Windows 7 - but what I will say is that it installed quickly and easily, and after I installed the Vista drivers for the WiFi card, I was able to start playing with it. A few unidentified devices, like the biometric fingerprint reader, didn't work right, but everything else seemed to work OK. Performance was snappy, though it's pretty snappy with Vista and 4 GB RAM. Thanks, Jason. I'd forgotten about the NDA having seen so many online videos of people installing it on a variety of devices!! The wireless UI seems to have definitely been improved and glad to hear most things are working OK - here's hoping HP properly release updates to the non-standard items like the fingerprint reader! I've only got 2GB RAM but from what I've read it sounds like that shouldn't be too much of a problem if things continue the way they have been so far with the pre-beta.

[petvas]

You do realize that the Mac dock was originally a feature for feature copy of the Windows taskbar and Quick Launch, don't you? Apple borrowed the idea from Windows, packaged it a little differently, and in subsequent releases enhanced it by adding previews and animations. Vista borrowed back the previews, and Windows 7 adds some enhancements.

If you don't realize it goes both ways, you are seriously deluding yourself.

Sure everybody uses features that are widely available. Doesn't it bother you though that Microsoft hasn't ever innovated on the desktop? They only copy others...

Linux copies MS (on the Desktop)

The Dock was originally Apple's idea. It is a App oriented taskbar while in Windows the taskbar was window oriented. Now Microsoft understood that this doesn't work well and is the main cause of windows clutter, and they decided to change it...

[rzanology]

i've been running win7 on a few of my laptops. and i am most impressed with it on my macbook with 2 gigs of ram. the old intel core 2 duo one. i loaded up the entire cs4 suite and office 2007. I launched every single app in both suites. i also launched every app i could find...included games...im...browsers...what ever! and this thing refused to slow down.

i couldn't beleive it. the UI was still as smooth and responsive as ever. I then started loading work up in each app one by way. using hibernate instead of shut down...for two days i had well over 25 apps open and running. NO SLOW DOWN! its a beautiful thing!

[onlydarksets]

Sure everybody uses features that are widely available. Doesn't it bother you though that Microsoft hasn't ever innovated on the desktop? They only copy others...

Linux copies MS (on the Desktop)

The Dock was originally Apple's idea. It is a App oriented taskbar while in Windows the taskbar was window oriented. Now Microsoft understood that this doesn't work well and is the main cause of windows clutter, and they decided to change it...
Never said the dock wasn't their idea. It was their implementation of what Windows already did with the Task Bar (including application grouping) and Quick Launch. So, again - Apple copies MS and MS copies Apple. Just because the innovations in Windows usually lack the panache of OS X's doesn't make them less of innovations.

And, have you tried it yet? This is just the latest in a string of tweaks going back to Windows 95, 4 years before the OS X Dock was released.

This is good competition - both sides are adding functionality that pushes the other.

[Jason Dunn]

Doesn't it bother you though that Microsoft hasn't ever innovated on the desktop? They only copy others...

That's an oversimplification of the highest order, and hardly worth responding to, but I'll point out one simple thing: desktop objects. The widgets that Apple ripped off quite clearly from the Konfabulator guys? The first implementation of desktop widgets were on the Windows platform. Windows Media Center came long before Frontrow.

The Dock was originally Apple's idea.

Wrong again. The first implementation of a dock was by Stardock for OS/2, years before either Apple or Microsoft. And we all know the history of Apple and Xerox, so let's not start pointing fingers about who invented what.

Personally I find all this arguments of who invented what first, and whom copied whom, is a waste of energy. I don't care who came up with what, I care about who delivers the best features for me as a user - and that's what you should care about too. If you prefer Apple, that's fine.

[petvas]

As I have already said, it is normal that everyone copies features that already exist and implements them in their own way. The problem with Microsoft is that they have never innovated on the desktop...
I am not saying that Apple always had original ideas but their OS is definitely better thought out than Windows...

[Jason Dunn]

The problem with Microsoft is that they have never innovated on the desktop...I am not saying that Apple always had original ideas but their OS is definitely better thought out than Windows...

You're welcome to hold that opinion, but by making extremist statements like you're doing (Microsoft has *never* put an innovative feature into Windows, etc.) expect others, myself included, to disagree with you.

[petvas]

You're welcome to hold that opinion, but by making extremist statements like you're doing (Microsoft has *never* put an innovative feature into Windows, etc.) expect others, myself included, to disagree with you.

Convince me that I am mistaken! Just tell me what was the last innovation that Microsoft brought to the desktop. I am not that extreme as you might think. I am a Microsoft IT Pro working with their products since 1992 and I have made the switch (privately) three years ago. I still use Windows on my business laptop and I find it ok but nothing more than that. I switched to Apple because of Vista, as many others also did.

[John Lane]

Xerox PARC and UNIX for the win!

[Damion Chaplin]

I switched to Apple because of Vista, as many others also did.

I never quite understood this mentality. What was so incredibly different about Vista that people run screaming? It's really a very nice robust operating system, much ahead of XP in most ways. Yeah, there are some annoying aspects, but what OS is annoyance-free?

For the most part, the people I hear complaining about Vista have either A) never used it, or B) used it for a day and ran away. How does this give you an accurate picture of an entire operating system?

Sure, UAC is annoying as all hell, but you can turn it off, you know. It's the first thing I do.

And as for MS never innovating in Windows... Well, that's like saying Pepsi never innovated in the cola arena and instead stole everything from Coke. Absurdus en extremis.

[Jason Dunn]

Convince me that I am mistaken! Just tell me what was the last innovation that Microsoft brought to the desktop.

I can't convince you, because you've already made up your mind - any energy I expend in trying to change your mind would be a waste, and I have better things to do.

[petvas]

I never quite understood this mentality. What was so incredibly different about Vista that people run screaming? It's really a very nice robust operating system, much ahead of XP in most ways. Yeah, there are some annoying aspects, but what OS is annoyance-free?

For the most part, the people I hear complaining about Vista have either A) never used it, or B) used it for a day and ran away. How does this give you an accurate picture of an entire operating system?

Sure, UAC is annoying as all hell, but you can turn it off, you know. It's the first thing I do.

And as for MS never innovating in Windows... Well, that's like saying Pepsi never innovated in the cola arena and instead stole everything from Coke. Absurdus en extremis.
I have tested Vista extensively as a MS Beta Tester... I don't think that Vista is bad, I am sure it is better than XP but our expectations were much higher than what Microsoft delivered and the disappointment made many people turn to Apple!

Having said that I find the Vista GUI awful...
I also don't like the incosistency found among all Microsoft Applications. I don't like that (by default) the menu bar went away. The ribbon interface is something that I didn't like....You see the inconsistencies for example between Outlook and the rest of the Office or Internet Explorer. One of the basic guidelines when designing UIs for an Operating System is consistency. The user in Vista has to learn how to use the basic features of each and every program. There are no Menus on some apps, on other you find menus...
On the Mac the user knows that there is always a menu bar and he/she knows where to find the App's preferences (for example). This was gone with Vista...Am I mistaken here? I don't think so....

[petvas]

I can't convince you, because you've already made up your mind - any energy I expend in trying to change your mind would be a waste, and I have better things to do.

maybe you should use a Mac for a week or so...

I was on the Windows side for many years you know...I just don't find any good arguments to go back again...But don't let me keep you...

[David Tucker]

maybe you should use a Mac for a week or so...

I was on the Windows side for many years you know...I just don't find any good arguments to go back again...But don't let me keep you...

Funny, I've never heard of a single good one to abandon Windows ;)

[JKingGrim]

The ribbon interface is something that I didn't like....You see the inconsistencies for example between Outlook and the rest of the Office or Internet Explorer. One of the basic guidelines when designing UIs for an Operating System is consistency. The user in Vista has to learn how to use the basic features of each and every program. There are no Menus on some apps, on other you find menus...
On the Mac the user knows that there is always a menu bar and he/she knows where to find the App's preferences (for example). This was gone with Vista...Am I mistaken here? I don't think so....

Yes you are mistaken. Ribbon is an office thing, not a vista thing. I also like when people say "I hate Vista. Now I always have to save things in the old format for others to view them." No, that is office not vista. It seems that bashing vista is the cool thing to do. People who dont even know what vista is criticize it.

That being said, if nothing ever changed how would progress be made? Windows 7 will be pushing the ribbon for core applications. If you dont like it that is your opinion. But your argument about consistency is pointless. Do you expect every single application to change overnight? The point is that MS is transitioning to a new (and by opinion) better UI. It will take time for all to follow suit. I really hate it when people say they dont like something because it is different than it used to be. How will progress ever be made? Case in point, the Dvorak keyboard (not that I use it). Supposedly much more efficient, but will not be widely adopted because everyone is used to a keyboard purposely designed to slow the typer down.

Speaking of consistency, why is it that some mac programs have installers and uninstallers while others you just drag to the trash can. What kind of system is that? I have used macs. A lot. I work in IT support and I support them every day. I strongly dislike the mac GUI. I find it messy and cluttered. I find the windows ui much more organized.

The topic is not supposed to be about which one is better though. The discussion was copying the mac dock. To that I say does the dock look anything like the new taskbar? Not at all. Have you seen video demonstrations of the superbar? Have you tried it yourself? The superbar is amazingly innovative. Much better than the dock. But because it is app oriented but not window oriented it copies mac? Stop watching mac adds and try it yourself. To he who was asking for one windows innovation, the superbar is that innovation.
YouTube - New Windows 7 Taskbar with Jump lists (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykFn0ZT64iw&feature=related)

As far as copying in general, what company does not copy others. Have you noticed the striking similarities between different cars? They all seem to have fuel injection now-a-days. Go figure.

[petvas]

Of course the Ribbon came from the Office team but it will expand to Windows also...
I have used the new taskbar and I found it better than the old one...Nothing more, nothing less...

Apparently I can't change your mind about Windows and Macs. If you understood how a Mac computer works you wouldn't ask about the installers...There is no need to "install" things on a Mac (at least most of the times). This is a big difference to Windows and one of the reasons why Macs don't get slower with time. Applications don't mess with the system or with other apps...

I am not posting on this thread anymore. As Jason says, it is a waste of energy...Let's all go back to what we were doing before and enjoy our computers, Macs or PCs..If there were no different opinions, there wouldn't be Macs and Windows, we would all have one system...pretty boring...

[JKingGrim]

If you understood how a Mac computer works you wouldn't ask about the installers...There is no need to "install" things on a Mac (at least most of the times).

I am not posting on this thread anymore. As Jason says, it is a waste of energy...

I do understand macs. That inconsistency bolded above was exactly my point. I know you dont need to install most things.

Dont you hate it when you say this and someone else comes back and says something so stupid that it urges you to respond again? :P

By the way, what you you do with your mac that has 13GB of RAM and a 3.5TB of HDD space?

[petvas]

By the way, what you you do with your mac that has 13GB of RAM and a 3.5TB of HDD space?

***long quote trimmed by mod JD***

I find my Mac Pro to be the perfect machine for all possible tasks..

I am a Microsoft Specialist, so I have a big Virtual Test environment that needs lots of RAM...
I also use Aperture (hobby only) and I have a very big video library (thus the 3,5TB Data)


What was the thing I said that sounded stupid to you? I found it quite offensive to be honest...

[JKingGrim]

What was the thing I said that sounded stupid to you? I found it quite offensive to be honest...

***long quote trimmed by mod JD***

No! I wasnt saying you said something stupid! I meant someone else will say something that urges you back. It was a joke. Sorry for the misunderstanding.