Can't Wait for Windows Mobile 7? Try Windows Mobile 6.5!

[Rocco Augusto]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2333601,00.asp' target='_blank'>http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,281...,2333601,00.asp</a><br /><br /></div><p><em>"... Motorola will open a new office in Seattle "in order to work closely with Microsoft to deliver differentiation" via the Windows Mobile platform, he said. Motorola expects to release a phone based on Windows Mobile 6.5 platform in the second half of 2009, and an Android-based device for the 2009 holiday season...&nbsp; 'Windows Mobile 6 has not delivered the experience that I think Apple has been able to deliver, but as you look at the plan that is Windows Mobile 7 and even 6.5, I think there are significant new added features which will help the platform,' Jha said."</em></p><p><img src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com/resizer/thumbs/size/600/spt/auto/1225402764.usr8.jpg" /></p><p>Suddenly the wait for Windows Mobile 7 doesn't seem as torturous as it once did. I am a little disappointed that we had to hear about a new version of Windows Mobile from Motorola and not Microsoft, but I am ecstatic for the news regardless. Not much is said about Windows Mobile 6.5 besides the fact that they are heavily working on "experiences," which I hope is just marketing babble for "usability." With Windows Mobile 6.5 devices slated for release around the second half of 2009, that hopefully means we can expect to start hearing some news on the new platform sometime as early as December or February. Hopefully now that the cat is out of the bag Microsoft will give us a little more to work with besides the usual tight lipped approach they have currently been taking.</p>

[Phillip Dyson]

This actually isn't that encouraging. My cynical side says our devices will fall into 3 classes.

1. Those that receive neither update.
2. Those that will receive 6.5 but not 7.0
3. Those that will bypass 6.5 and update to 7.0

Plus are there two teams working on WM? Or is 6.5 a distraction. I wonder whether there will be anything game changing in 6.5 except maybe IE 6.

I think internally this means WM 7.0 will be out and thus adopted later than we think.

Okay </Cynicism>

I find my faith in WM waning at times. What were PalmOS people thinking when it was on its way out? Was it anything like this? Or am I the guy on the frontlines that cracks and runs?

[Pony99CA]

I wonder if this is what was called WM 6.2 earlier. Probably not, because I thought WM 6.2 was supposed to be out this year (maybe with the new IE 6).

If WM 6.5 isn't supposed to be in devices until the second half of 2009, that's still a long wait, though (possibly over a year).

Steve

[bnycastro]

motorola hasn't really been innovating as of late... look at the Q line which was great as a start but has been frankly OVER DONE [ala RAZR]. it's like a nice song being overly played and mixed... you get tired of it!

look at the Q11... they finally added WiFi but removed 3G? if this is supposed to be for emerging markets where is the unit for the mature markets.

motorola should probably rent out the office space to HTC or Samsung so they can work closer with MS. motorola can collect rent :D

[JKingGrim]

I find my faith in WM waning at times. What were PalmOS people thinking when it was on its way out? Was it anything like this? Or am I the guy on the frontlines that cracks and runs?I remember my days of staunch support for Palm OS Cobalt. :(

I don't think WM will go that way unless MS lets it though. They have way too many resources. They can do WM right if they want to. Obviously it is not a very high priority since it takes years to make it over while Google can write an OS from scratch in less time. But I think it will get there. WM7 better be revolutionary with such a wait.

[Fritzly]

Honestly the idea that we will have to wait more or less one year to get WM 6.5 is ...devastating; I mean, one year to see what reasonably seems to be a minor update?
Well, we will see.

[Cattle-Dog]

Honestly the idea that we will have to wait more or less one year to get WM 6.5 is ...devastating; I mean, one year to see what reasonably seems to be a minor update?
Well, we will see.

It'll be worth the wait. I hear it has a new default font and system colors!

[azhiker]

To me this update and the delays are examples of how little focus & research and $$$ Microsoft has given to Windows Mobile. It's just not high on their priorities.

The Apple ads that belittle the Vista ad campaign is a good example, it effectively shows MS spends money on advertising Vista and not in repairing it. However, Vista and Windows7 and Office 2009 and new systems will be their focus for years to come, so the WinMo is just an after-thought.

Android shows much more promise, and the I-Phone has moved so many people away from waiting for MS next thing.

THe one thing that MS has in their favor is the weak economy will slow down people's phone purchases and perhaps by the time they can buy, WnMo 6.5 or 7 will be enticing enough users to stick with the platform.

I-Phone and Android will not wait to improve their systems so it may just be too little too late for WinMo.

[caywen]

It'll be worth the wait. I hear it has a new default font and system colors!

Just wait till you all see the new Live Mesh tile on the home screen! And PocketWM now plays Zune content! This is a game changer, folks. The Wow starts now!!

[possmann]

Not much is said about Windows Mobile 6.5 besides the fact that they are heavily working on "experiences," which I hope is just marketing babble for "usability."


Even that alone would help in boosting the generic winmo when now compared against the iphone and android.

Peter's opinion is that we'll see more and more customizations of the "experience", just like HTC has done, for the winmo operating system. We'll soon start to see the front end of the device get morphed by the customizations, mainly of the hardware makers but also by the carriers. Looking in the article Moto says the reason they want to physically get closer to MS is to address the "experience".

It seems like this is becoming more of a side show for MS. If it is - so be it - then just stop worrying about innvocation and focus on fixing the bugs and tuning the OS so it screams without need a bug footprint. Let the 3rd party apps and hardware vendors continue to work on the "experience"
If that is not the strategic direction of MS fro winmo - then pony up! Put some cash in to innovating and deploying a beefier winmo OS (which could mean buying up some of the 3rd party apps and incorporating them in to your standard offering). I know we could all think of a handful that should be "standard"

[Xentrax]

This actually isn't that encouraging. My cynical side says our devices will fall into 3 classes.

1. Those that receive neither update.
2. Those that will receive 6.5 but not 7.0
3. Those that will bypass 6.5 and update to 7.0




I have a strong feeling that that there won't be any upgrades from WM 6.x to 7.x as WM7 shell is supposedly to run CE6 underlying OS and that means rewriting hardware drivers which is too much for a free/$20 upgrade.

[Pony99CA]

I don't think WM will go that way unless MS lets it though.
Well, yeah....

They can do WM right if they want to. Obviously it is not a very high priority since it takes years to make it over while Google can write an OS from scratch in less time.
Really? How long did it take Google to develop Android?

It's actually a trick question. Google bought Android (http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/aug2005/tc20050817_0949_tc024.htm) in August 2005, and Android was already 22 months old. That means it took almost five years to get Android to market from scratch.

In that time, Microsoft has released WM 2003 SE, WM 5, WM 6 and WM 6.1.

Even if you only count the time it was at Google, it still took over three years. Don't you hate those annoying facts? ;)

Steve

[kanzlr]

and they didn't really build it from scratch, they already had the open linux foundation to build upon.

[JKingGrim]

Well, yeah....


Really? How long did it take Google to develop Android?

It's actually a trick question. Google bought Android (http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/aug2005/tc20050817_0949_tc024.htm) in August 2005, and Android was already 22 months old. That means it took almost five years to get Android to market from scratch.

In that time, Microsoft has released WM 2003 SE, WM 5, WM 6 and WM 6.1.

Even if you only count the time it was at Google, it still took over three years. Don't you hate those annoying facts? ;)

Steve

and they didn't really build it from scratch, they already had the open linux foundation to build upon.

I stand corrected. :)

[Phillip Dyson]

Well, yeah....


Really? How long did it take Google to develop Android?

It's actually a trick question. Google bought Android (http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/aug2005/tc20050817_0949_tc024.htm) in August 2005, and Android was already 22 months old. That means it took almost five years to get Android to market from scratch.

In that time, Microsoft has released WM 2003 SE, WM 5, WM 6 and WM 6.1.

Even if you only count the time it was at Google, it still took over three years. Don't you hate those annoying facts? ;)

Steve

This is a point you raise. Both Apple and Google chose a linux or unix-based kernel to build on top of. I don't know if we can say that both companies invested 5 plus years to bring their products to light. But when they came out they both (argueably) trumped Windows Mobile.

Microsof has shown that it will take another year or two to respond. That doesn't sound very competitive. Meanwhile Apple and Google both can concentrate on adding features not refactoring the foundation.

Perhaps the real question is, can the WM platform (which may be CE) keep up with the competition (e.g. linux)? Hypothetically, what if Microsoft ditched their kernal and adopted a Linux one. Would that give them the competitive edge they need?

I know they wouldn't but its interesting to think about.

[Birdsoft]

Android trumps WM??

Anyway... the kernel is just fine in WM!

What people are complaining about and want "to catch up" is pretty much all UI stuff and improvements in core applications that come with the OS(Edit:'Usability' as a description fits here nicely). So, really, in WM to add new gesture based features and < insert other fun User interface control types and transitions and ... > and then do what is needed and re-write ALL of the current screens along with combining what is separate between Pro and Standard and making it so all screens and controls work multiple ways(touch or no touch), look cooler, make more sense and are way simplified, and on all screen sizes and orientations and then write all core applications(ex. IE, unified better home screen, zune/wmp improvements, skymarket, etc...) fixing what is needed and using this new interface .... well is a project. Then make sure you aren't completely wrecking your huge 3rd Party Application base, and even that some of these new controls integrate automatically in place of the older versions(list controls etc) into these 3rd party apps and expose all of the new interfaces in the sdk and for further development. And hopefully rewrite a little bit behind the scenes to further separate it out so MS can use an OTA update feature to release pieces of OS updates. And oh by the way, not that it needs it now, but since we are doing all this lets switch to our newer CE kernel as it will be beneficial in several ways too...

Those other OSs took longer, and weren't being worked on in parallel to an existing established working OS, and well took a ton of shortcuts to get them out the door. Ummm.. Android pulled half the built-in applications back out and currently is only one device format, and don't even get me started on what iPhone was missing(and even still is 1.5 years later) but is so easily forgiven because they may eventually release an OTA update to fix it all(though maybe not the things that really matter in the life cycle of your current phone).

So Im sure they could probably use more, but I bet MS has plenty of resources on WM7 and ...
heres hoping 6.5 gives us a little taste of part of that...

.......................

And did you really just cite that commercial by Apple, the company that blows more advertising money than anyone, and Im sorry its OS's could use some $$ held back for fixing too..I see a few annoyances in Vista, but developing on both every day Vista is a better OS than MacOS.... .So I'm hoping there was sarcasm in that...

[Rocco Augusto]

I have a strong feeling that that there won't be any upgrades from WM 6.x to 7.x as WM7 shell is supposedly to run CE6 underlying OS and that means rewriting hardware drivers which is too much for a free/$20 upgrade.

I have a feeling there will not be any official upgrades released either. From the sounds of it it looks like Microsoft, at least behind closed doors, is taking the iPhone and Android threat seriously... at least seriously enough to hire teams to work on 'experiences'. Hopefully when WM7 is released, it will be on par with the competition in the usability department and might not give the user the full 'experience' on older hardware.

Android trumps WM??<insert other="" fun="" user="" interface="" control="" types="" transitions="" and="" ...="">

Only in usability. I still love my Blackjack but it is so refreshing to be able to use a new device that happens to be a touch screen device and is easily accessible with one hand. As I mentioned above, I don't see this lasting very long as I have faith that the next version(s) of Windows Mobile will blow the previous efforts out of the water where usability is concerned.

Minus Windows Mobile's bland user interface, the rest of the operating system is fantastic. :)

</insert>

[alese]

Every news about WM in last few months is more depressing...
Microsoft released WM6 in 2007 (there was allready talk about new "revolutionary" version of WM in 2006 with new interface, but WM6 obviously wasn't that)
A year later they released WM6.1, still nothing new, even though Apple in the meantime changed the landscape with new interface and new OS.
Now we hear that next year there will be WM6.5, which implies again that it's going to be the same old OS and interface, with possibly a new PIE?
So Microsoft will need roughly 4 years to buld new interface.
I find this sorry, yes Apple and Google used Linux kernel for the OS, but Micosoft also uses allready developed kernel (Windows CE) that is developed by different team than WM, so it's not like they have more to do than competition, probably less...
On the other hand it's logical, they probably had to change everything after iPhone was released and start from scrach.
The only positive thing I see here is that my existing hardware (Diamond, Advantage maybe even Himalaya) will get an upgrade to 6.5 (via XDA-Developers) in 2009 that will work, something I'm not to sure will be the case with WM7.

[Pony99CA]

Microsoft released WM6 in 2007 (there was allready talk about new "revolutionary" version of WM in 2006 with new interface, but WM6 obviously wasn't that)
A year later they released WM6.1, still nothing new, even though Apple in the meantime changed the landscape with new interface and new OS.
Now we hear that next year there will be WM6.5, which implies again that it's going to be the same old OS and interface, with possibly a new PIE?
So Microsoft will need roughly 4 years to buld new interface.
Four years? Even if WM 6.5 has no UI improvements (which the Motorola CEO implied it would) and WM 7 comes out in 2010, that's only about three years after the iPhone was released in 2007.

I find this sorry, yes Apple and Google used Linux kernel for the OS, but Micosoft also uses allready developed kernel (Windows CE) that is developed by different team than WM, so it's not like they have more to do than competition, probably less...
I think you missed the point of the Linux argument. It was directed at one poster who claimed that Google wrote Android from scratch faster than Microsoft could do an OS update. I pointed out that Android started about 5 years ago, and another poster pointed out that even that wasn't really from scratch because they could start from Linux. We were just correcting misinformation, not making any claims about who had more work to do.

But your comment about Windows CE reinforces the point. Microsoft developed Windows CE themselves; they didn't have the luxury (as far as I know) of using an existing mobile kernel.

Steve

[alese]

Four years? Even if WM 6.5 has no UI improvements (which the Motorola CEO implied it would) and WM 7 comes out in 2010, that's only about three years after the iPhone was released in 2007.


Actually there was some talk about the new "revolutionary" version of WM from Mobius (I think in fall 2006 - I guess Jason or someone else could be more specific about the time). Anyhow Microsoft supposedly showed some UI stuff that was supposed to go into the WM after the version 6. So in 2006 they were already working on at least some aspects of WM7...
As for UI improvements - we can only wait and see. I secretly hope 6.5 will have some real UI improvements, but I'm not holding my breath. What it will probably have will be just some minor "usability" things and a new version of PIE - the one demonstrated this spring that should bring "full internet experience".


I think you missed the point of the Linux argument. It was directed at one poster who claimed that Google wrote Android from scratch faster than Microsoft could do an OS update. I pointed out that Android started about 5 years ago, and another poster pointed out that even that wasn't really from scratch because they could start from Linux. We were just correcting misinformation, not making any claims about who had more work to do.

But your comment about Windows CE reinforces the point. Microsoft developed Windows CE themselves; they didn't have the luxury (as far as I know) of using an existing mobile kernel.

Steve

I understand the point, and I wasn't actually trying to comment on Linux argument, I was just trying to make some parallels to the situations between WM team, Google Android and Apple. Just like Google and Apple didn't start from scratch, the same goes for Microsoft - the WM team already have built OS and for the most part what they have to do is build the UI and some applications (not all).
And I think they are actually in better position than the other two, not only they have the OS development in the house so they can work more closely with CE team, they have history going back to 2000, there is large user base, development tools and development community everything that the other two didn't have, or even still don't have.
And in spite the seemingly better starting position, it looks like the development of WM is moving very slow compared to others - even Blackberry with much less resources, looks like it managed to come up with touch UI that looks good, faster than Microsoft managed to update their UI.

Anyhow sorry for the long post/rant - don't get me wrong I want WM to be successful, I like the platform, I'm a fan and user from 2000, but it's so frustrating when you see how others are making big steps forward and all we get is threaded messaging and 3rd party shells like Touch Flo 3D...

[Pony99CA]

Actually there was some talk about the new "revolutionary" version of WM from Mobius (I think in fall 2006 - I guess Jason or someone else could be more specific about the time). Anyhow Microsoft supposedly showed some UI stuff that was supposed to go into the WM after the version 6. So in 2006 they were already working on at least some aspects of WM7...
I recall talk of Photon before WM 6 was released, but do we know it was anything more? If it was just planning and mock-ups, I don't count that as actual work being done. For all we know, Apple and Google had been planning mobile phones for years.

Just like Google and Apple didn't start from scratch, the same goes for Microsoft - the WM team already have built OS and for the most part what they have to do is build the UI and some applications (not all).
And I think they are actually in better position than the other two, not only they have the OS development in the house so they can work more closely with CE team, they have history going back to 2000, there is large user base, development tools and development community everything that the other two didn't have, or even still don't have.
The same does not go for Microsoft. As I mentioned above, Microsoft did start from scratch on Windows CE back in the 90s. True, the Windows Mobile team might not have had to, but Microsoft is obviously bigger than just the WM team, just like Google is bigger than the Android team and Apple is bigger than the iPhone team.

But I agree with your basic point. As I (and many others) have said, I think Microsoft rested on their laurels after overtaking Palm. That's why we haven't seen too much innovation going on.

Anyhow sorry for the long post/rant - don't get me wrong I want WM to be successful, I like the platform, I'm a fan and user from 2000, but it's so frustrating when you see how others are making big steps forward and all we get is threaded messaging and 3rd party shells like Touch Flo 3D...
I think most of us here probably agree with that. :(

However, I personally don't care if the UI changes much. I've been using it long enough now that I'm used to it and change would likely result in a new learning curve. All I want is a touch-friendly mode you can set (and that you can turn off to get WM "classic" mode, for people that like their styli or prefer more information on-screen).

I understand that your average Joe Six-Pack (or is it Joe the Plumber) want more flash, though.

Steve