Windows 7 Will Drop Email, Photo, and Video Programs

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10048142-56.html' target='_blank'>http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10048142-56.html</a><br /><br /></div><p><em>"Microsoft has decided that Windows 7 won't include built-in programs for e-mail, photo editing, and movie making, as was done with Windows Vista, CNET News.com has learned. The software maker included Windows Photo Gallery, Windows Mail, and Windows Movie Maker as part of Vista, but later chose to offer separate downloadable Windows Live programs that essentially replaced those components with versions that could connect to online services from Microsoft and others. Microsoft told CNET News late Monday that it has decided to remove those features entirely from Windows 7 and instead offer only the service-connected Windows Live versions as optional free downloads. Earlier on Monday, Microsoft had declined to say how it was handling things."</em></p><p><img src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com/resizer/thumbs/size/600/dht/auto/1221500674.usr1.jpg" /></p><p>This is risky business for Microsoft. Why? Because there are a lot of Windows users that don't install extra software on thier PC - many people I know use whatever came with their computer, regardless of whether or not there's something better out there for them. Every Apple computer ships with iLife, and now every Windows 7 computer will ship with...nothing? Or perhaps we'll see every OEM select their own email, photo, and video solution - thus creating an even more fragmented PC landscape. That's not a good solution either. I have a slim hope that Microsoft will be able to encourage OEMs to bundle the complete suite of Windows Live products with each computer they ship, or perhaps offer some sort of easy download option...but I still see this as being problematic on a number of levels. What do you think?</p>

[Bob Christensen]

Weren't a lot of Microsoft's lawsuits related to bundling apps with Windows?

Or, maybe they are looking to save development time in order to get the new version out the door faster?

[John Lane]

I must respectfully disagree.

1. I think this will get them away from anti-trust claims.
2. It would be very easy to have an icon or somesuch to add back the "live" features
3. It annoys me on Vista that Microsoft pushes their windows mail so hard when I am already using Outlook. It is like Microsoft never heard of outlook.

[John Lane]

The only thing is I don't see a replacement for Movie Maker. I used the Live Photo Gallery alot until I discovered the Picasa 3 Beta.

[Lee Yuan Sheng]

Um.

It's just a bunch of content viewing and manipulation apps. I wouldn't go as far as saying it will lead to a "fragmented PC landscape". I mean, the idea of having a PC is choice right? This is not like some core API that is being left out, or like the mess we have with 32/64 bit Windows OSes and related software, or that the fact there are multiple OSes out for PCs (and yes, a Mac IS a PC, just running Mac OS).

[stan]

Windows mail and movie maker I can see to live without, but Photo? Why?? that's is like the most basic function since windows 3.1. i love windows photo galery. It super quick to load a pictures. Damn, while at it, why not remove internet explorer? or explorer? or Windows Media Player!!! My point is, photo view capability is so basic that imagine your shipped laptop couldn't open your album, it outrages!

[c1oudrs]

the problem is that the bigger the ship, the harder it is to turn. no one has a bigger challenge in this regard than microsoft. recently news came out that wm7 has been delayed. we all know that internet explorer mobile is sorely lacking. microsoft needs to wake up and make hard decisions. leaving some of the add ons off that aren't integral to there operating system is one way to speed up production and concentrate resources. yes they should have been competing all along. but until they get an operating system right and a browser right nothing else will be worth anything. through years of incompetence they have left the door open and now its back to the wall getit right or die time. either a slow death or a fast one. this is actually one of the first indications I've seen that microsoft gets it. in the meantime HTC and the rest can do the add ons and the savy user can download 3rd party software. if microsoft survives the next ten years as a dominant force then they can return to the bundle game to push their sideline products. that's my opinion of course but I'm actually quite hopeful over it all.

[Jason Dunn]

3. It annoys me on Vista that Microsoft pushes their windows mail so hard when I am already using Outlook. It is like Microsoft never heard of outlook.

Sure, you have Outlook installed - but that's a commercial program that you likely paid for. What about the bulk of users who don't have Outlook?

I'm not saying it's the end of the world or anything, but I've seen it time and time again: people who don't know any better are using Outlook Express instead of a better email client, they're using Windows Picture and Fax Viewer instead of a better image viewer, they don't have any photo gallery/management software installed...and these same people have probably been ignoring the IE7 Windows Update so they're still using IE6.

To a large degree, many consumers don't have the knowledge to install better software onto their computers - and the thought of a Windows computer coming with nothing installed might leave consumers with the impression that Windows 7 offers "nothing".

[Rocco Augusto]

Why? Because there are a lot of Windows users that don't install extra software on thier PC - many people I know use whatever came with their computer, regardless of whether or not there's something better out there for them. Every Apple computer ships with iLife, and now every Windows 7 computer will ship with...nothing?

I personally think this is a great thing, but I can completely see where you're coming from. I usually never use the bundled applications and would like nothing more than to uninstall them but since they're integrated into the operating system, you can't. The reason I never use these applications is because they are usually inferior to other solutions out there, free or otherwise, that get updated more often with new features and even bug fixes. The bundled apps usually only see a big update, if any, with the release of a new version of Windows and that makes them outdated very quickly.

Removing the applications from Windows lets Microsoft focus more on updating these applications more often and making them more useful to PC users as a whole. If done right getting this functionality back on your desktop could be as simple as clicking on a desktop shortcut after you install the OS or even Microsoft including a nice custom installation menu that will let you pick and choose which app you would like to install during the initial installation of Windows 7. Whether or not they do something like this though is still up in the air I guess.

Even if you have to go online and download the programs at least Microsoft was nice enough to leave us a browser with the new OS :D

[Jason Dunn]

Removing the applications from Windows lets Microsoft focus more on updating these applications more often and making them more useful to PC users as a whole.

Indeed, that's what I hope will happen - certainly we're seeing more movement in the Live suite of applications than on updates for the built-in applications. On the other hand, Windows Live Movie Maker Beta has no timeline...so how I can I use it to edit DVR-MS files? I fear that the Live team may really screw up their applications...

[EscapePod]

Most people who have tried Live Movie Maker have pronounced it a failure (basically needing a lot of work -- after all, its beta). I prefer the version in Vista, and remain reluctant to reload my Roxio 10 or Pinnacle apps that screwed up my PC in the first place.

I personally wouldn't mind if MS removed the current type of bundled apps, as long as they would also have them available as a free download (individually) for those who do want them. I prefer the applets that reside on the PC rather than the online "Live" versions -- but that's just my old school mentality <img src="http://forums.thoughtsmedia.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" class="inlineimg" />

[John Lane]

I think you might have misunderstood my post about Outlook. I just wish Windows Vista would recognize that Outlook exists and quit trying to shove Windows Mail down my throat.

But, I still like removing it. It is so easy to get microsoft live stuff and it is so easy to get the same from Google and Yahoo. I don't see that it is a big deal to remove it from the operating system. Plus, I think that it does help MS on anti-trust issues.

[Rocco Augusto]

On the other hand, Windows Live Movie Maker Beta has no timeline...so how I can I use it to edit DVR-MS files?

Really?! That's pretty weak. I haven't had a chance to play with the new Windows Live Movie Maker, but I do some of the other Live applications that they have put out recently. Not having a timeline seems a little counter productive to the art of video editing *shakes head and sighs*

[Pony99CA]

I personally wouldn't mind if MS removed the current type of bundled apps, as long as they would also have them available as a free download (individually) for those who do want them. I prefer the applets that reside on the PC rather than the online "Live" versions -- but that's just my old school mentality <img src="http://forums.thoughtsmedia.com/images/smilies/smile.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smile" class="inlineimg" />
I'm with you here. I want applications that work on my own PC, not online. If working with Live services is an option, that's cool, but I don't want to be forced to use them.

E-mail applications, media players, photo galleries, video editors, etc. don't belong in an operating system anyway. An operating system should do basically three things:


Manage the hardware. It provides the file system, multi-tasking, power management and hardware interfaces.
Provide a user interface. This can be as simple as command line DOS or as complex as Vista, but the user needs to be able to control it.
Provide a platform for developers. There needs to be a good set of APIs to enable developers to extend the system.

I don't mind shipping a text editor like Notepad or a simple Solitaire game to teach you to use the mouse, but most other items should be downloadable. With the Web, I can sort of see including a simple Web browser to be able to find and download the remaining components, but bundling isn't really good.

Personaly, I use Eudora for E-mail (R.I.P. until the Mozilla version comes out) and Firefox 3 for Web browsing.

Steve

[Jason Dunn]

I'm with you here. I want applications that work on my own PC, not online. If working with Live services is an option, that's cool, but I don't want to be forced to use them.

The word "Live" seems to be confusing people - the Live applications (email, photo gallery, messenger, toolbar, movie maker, etc.) are all rich, locally-installed applications. They don't require Internet access to function...though obviously you'll going to be having lonely IM chats if you're not online. :D

[Pony99CA]

The word "Live" seems to be confusing people - the Live applications (email, photo gallery, messenger, toolbar, movie maker, etc.) are all rich, locally-installed applications. They don't require Internet access to function...though obviously you'll going to be having lonely IM chats if you're not online. :D
I don't use them, so thanks for the clarification. I thought they were more like Google Gears applications or something (although I don't use those, either).

For example, I thought the E-mail program might just be a front end for Hotmail, which would be useless for me as I don't use Hotmail. I'm glad to hear that's not true.

Steve

[Jason Dunn]

For example, I thought the E-mail program might just be a front end for Hotmail, which would be useless for me as I don't use Hotmail. I'm glad to hear that's not true.

Live Mail is actually a souped-up Windows Mail, which of course evolved from Outlook Express. Live Mail is actually quite good, at least for my needs.