Did the Zune 16 Make Apple Scramble to Keep Up?

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/09/18/microsoft_may_have_thrown_apple_an_ipod_nano_headache.html' target='_blank'>http://www.appleinsider.com/article...o_headache.html</a><br /><br /></div><p><em>"Apple is notifying some of its customers this week that it will be unable to meet quoted delivery times for its new 16GB iPod nanos, fueling rumors that the company was forced to make a last minute change to the product line, possibly at the hands of rival Microsoft...there's been an increasing amount of evidence to suggest that 16GB models remain unavailable simply because Apple's original plans for the fourth-generation iPod nano leading up to last Tuesday's event called for only 4GB and 8GB configurations."</em></p><p><img src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com/resizer/thumbs/size/600/zt/auto/1221844829.usr1.jpg" border="1" /></p><p>In the MP3 player market, Apple is the most dominant force around - but it seems that if these reports are true, the Zune player may have forced their hand in terms of capacity. Apple prides itself on having products in stores for sale shortly after they're announced, so for there to be a delay of more than two weeks for the 16 GB version of the Nano, something had to have happened to create the delay. Apple has huge manufacturing capacity for their iPods, so it's highly unlikely that they just "forgot" to put these 16 GB into production. And if the reports of marketing materials listing only 4 GB and 8 GB models are to be believed, it seems certain that Apple had no plans to launch a 16 GB Nano until Microsoft forced their hand.</p>

[onlydarksets]

Apple has been short on innovation since they introduced the first nano. I think the competition from the Zune (limited though it's been) has helped them see that tall-and-skinny beats short-and-squat and that you need to keep pushing the storage size. Of course, Apple wants to minimize the overlap, so that everyone has a nano, Classic, and iPhone.

[serpico]

This could be true since there is an image floating around of a new 4GB pink nano which is puzzling since Apple only introduced 8GB and 16GB. Good on the Zune! Competition is what we need to keep everyone on their toes!

[Dyvim]

Not just images- seems that Apple really is quietly dumping 4GB nanos on the international market (hoping that no one would notice). I am pretty convinced that this is in fact what happened. All I can say is "Thank you Zune!". Now Zune team, how about a 32 GB flash-based player?

I'm glad Apple took a page from the Zune playbook and went with the portrait mode screen and improved the Now Playing screen over the previous generation.

I'd certainly like one of these little guys, but don't know if I can justify it (have no real need for it, but they do look sweet).

[serpico]

I still like my 3G fatty nano. Fits perfectly in my hand and in the pocket. Thin and light. Does it job, though small screen, but good for short videos. I have a Sansa Clip 4GB model for its ability to clip on quickly for most activities when I want to just listen to music. Great sound quality too.

I'm not into tall players and that's why I stay away from the zune flash. The screen is too small in these players as well, so I'm looking forward to picking up a zune120 to store my entire collection and watch video podcasts. One player doesn't do it all for me, so I'm happy with a few for different tasks.

[inteller]

Microsoft should have come out with 3.0 zune flash with a bigger screen. All of that border around the current screen is just stupid, and a bit misleading perception wise when a person turns it on just to see that huge bezel.

[txa1265]

Competition is what we need to keep everyone on their toes!

Absolutely agree - we have plenty of really good players, and there are more (legal) MP3 options out there ... it is just wonderful! In a world of competition, *we* win!

[Phronetix]

I still like my 3G fatty nano. Fits perfectly in my hand and in the pocket. Thin and light. Does it job, though small screen, but good for short videos.

I also like the 3G design, but prefer the lack of stainless steel on the 4G. The 3G and 4G share the exact screen size, just different orientation.

From my experience with Apple, what possibly happened is that they planned to release the 4G in 4 GB and 8 GB sizes, with 16 GB starting manufacturing the same time as the release event. Then, when the Zune was released in 16 GB, they quickly changed plans. It speaks to Apple's respect for the Zune as competition.

Is the 16GB Zune freely available now? I checked the Best Buy site, and it says it's in stock. I'm surprised to see that the Zune has not undercut the price of the Nano by more than $20. By all rights, it ought to be $165... 25% under the Nano, at least until the market share improves. What sold iPods after the 3G iPod was released, when they really took off, was more people having them, seeing them, asking to hold them.... the Zune needs that more than the extra dollars per unit. I have yet to see a single Zune in the wild. That's not a good sign.

And yes, I love my iPods, and am an Apple fanboy. I also believe that competition brings about excellence and innovation, so I cheer for the Zune, a little. ;-)

[onlydarksets]

And yes, I love my iPods, and am an Apple fanboy. I also believe that competition brings about excellence and innovation, so I cheer for the Zune, a little. ;-)
You're not a fanboy. Admitting that you are a fanboy immediately disqualifies you from fanboy status. Sorry! :D

[Jason Dunn]

I have yet to see a single Zune in the wild. That's not a good sign.

With all due respect, I always find it quite silly when people make this "in the wild" statement. First, you're in Canada like me, and the Zune has only been selling here at retail and online for about three months - and there's no Zune Marketplace or Zune Pass here, so you're probably not going to see the Zune rocketing off the shelves.

Second, I very rarely see MP3 players "in the wild" - I see headphones that are presumably attached to something playing music, but it might be an iPod, a Zune, a phone, or a radio...I'd say for every 10 people I see with headphones plugged in, I might see one device out in the open. Assuming that people making "in the wild" statements don't have x-ray vision, how are they able to magically see what everyone is using?

I don't have a commute to work, so I'm sure I see less devices "in the wild" than many other people do (say, on public transit), but I travel by plane a fair bit and see a lot of headphones in ears. But what they're plugged into is anyone's guess...:)

[onlydarksets]

Second, I very rarely see MP3 players "in the wild" - I see headphones that are presumably attached to something playing music, but it might be an iPod, a Zune, a phone, or a radio...I'd say for every 10 people I see with headphones plugged in, I might see one device out in the open. Assuming that people making "in the wild" statements don't have x-ray vision, how are they able to magically see what everyone is using?
Agreed. That said, I saw one last Friday - it was the 30gb model.

And, for the record, no x-ray vision here.

[Phronetix]

With all due respect, I always find it quite silly when people make this "in the wild" statement. First, you're in Canada like me, and the Zune has only been selling here at retail and online for about three months - and there's no Zune Marketplace or Zune Pass here, so you're probably not going to see the Zune rocketing off the shelves.

Wow, I had no idea. My first thought upon hearing that is: why use a Zune when the other guy had such a good device and ecosystem? Does this stem from having music ripped as WMA? Is it an anti-market leader, not anting to follow the pack thing? If so, I point out your OS of choice. I am curious, Jason. I apologize if it seems I am attemtping to bait you. Truly not the case.

That is an excellent point about the store. It took a year to get the iTunes store to Canada, so I can understand Microsoft's angle. So, the first gen Zune was from the USA only? You have access to the American store though, right? I have a US iTunes store account and we buy TV shows, some music and rent movies... I presume that the US Zune Marketplace has the same. Even so, this explains why I have not seen them.

Second, I very rarely see MP3 players "in the wild" - I see headphones that are presumably attached to something playing music, but it might be an iPod, a Zune, a phone, or a radio...I'd say for every 10 people I see with headphones plugged in, I might see one device out in the open. Assuming that people making "in the wild" statements don't have x-ray vision, how are they able to magically see what everyone is using?
I only pay attention when I see a device I suppose. lol

[txa1265]

Second, I very rarely see MP3 players "in the wild" - I see headphones that are presumably attached to something playing music, but it might be an iPod, a Zune, a phone, or a radio...

I never used to, but since moving to Corning NY for my new job 6 months ago I have been going to the gym every morning, and have seen loads of MP3 players because they are normally on some sort of armband.

At the gym we have everyone from high school kids to retirees, low income to affluent, and during the summer months there was a great influx of either college kids or tourist workers or others just around for a few months, now that school is back there is another group of folks.

During that time:
- I've seen ~100 MP3 players or so.
- Of the non-iPods, I have seen Creative and Sansa.
- I have yet to see a single Zune ... and I have been looking.
- Probably 90% of what I see is iPods.

[Jason Dunn]

My first thought upon hearing that is: why use a Zune when the other guy had such a good device and ecosystem?

So you're asking why anyone would purchase anything other than an iPod? That's a pretty broad question - why do people purchase anything at all? Because it meets a need they have. If you think iPods meet the needs of everyone, then you're more of a fanboy than you think. ;)

So, the first gen Zune was from the USA only? You have access to the American store though, right? I have a US iTunes store account and we buy TV shows, some music and rent movies... I presume that the US Zune Marketplace has the same.

Yes, the first and second gen Zunes were USA-only. No Zune was officially sold at retail anywhere in the world other than the USA until just a couple of months ago, which is when they added Canada. No other official countries yet. It's pretty awkward for non-Americans to use the Zune Marketplace - there are a lot of hoops to jump through (http://www.zunethoughts.com/news/show/23576/an-international-zune-user-s-guide.html). The Zune Marketplace doesn't sell movies yet, just TV shows.

[Jason Dunn]

During that time:
- I've seen ~100 MP3 players or so.
- Of the non-iPods, I have seen Creative and Sansa.
- I have yet to see a single Zune ... and I have been looking.
- Probably 90% of what I see is iPods.

Seeing 90% iPods makes sense, but I'm curious, what were the general sizes of the players you were seeing? For me, I'd never expect to see a Zune at the gym, because they have no gym-sized hardware. I use a SanDisk Sansa Clip at the gym, my wife uses an iPod Shuffle. I'd much rather use a Zune, but they don't have one that easily clips to the waist of my shorts.

[txa1265]

Seeing 90% iPods makes sense, but I'm curious, what were the general sizes of the players you were seeing? For me, I'd never expect to see a Zune at the gym, because they have no gym-sized hardware. I use a SanDisk Sansa Clip at the gym, my wife uses an iPod Shuffle. I'd much rather use a Zune, but they don't have one that easily clips to the waist of my shorts.

Most popular is the 'Nano Fatty', second is the Nano Slim, then the Touch / iPhone, then the Shuffles surprisingly. There are plenty of flash-based Zune sized players there.

[Jason Dunn]

Most popular is the 'Nano Fatty', second is the Nano Slim, then the Touch / iPhone, then the Shuffles surprisingly.

You see more Touch/iPhones than Shuffles at the gym??? That blows me away - who could/would work out with something that big on their waist/arm? Not me, that's for sure. :rolleyes:

[txa1265]

You see more Touch/iPhones than Shuffles at the gym??? That blows me away - who could/would work out with something that big on their waist/arm? Not me, that's for sure. :rolleyes:

I agree - I couldn't imagine it, and perhaps that is what makes it stand out more. But the vast majority are Nanos and actually some Minis now that I think about it.

[Jason Dunn]

But the vast majority are Nanos and actually some Minis now that I think about it.

Makes sense - only the hyper-geeks like us would need/want more than one MP3 player. ;-) I think most people who have a Nano or a Mini use it everywhere. It's not a bad size for the gym, just too big for me personally.