RealDVD Ripper

[Chris Gohlke]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10034540-1.html?tag=newsEditorsPicksArea' target='_blank'>http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105...ditorsPicksArea</a><br /><br /></div><p><em>"Savvy PC users will ask, "What's the big deal? I've been ripping DVDs to my PC's hard drive for years." Fair enough, but RealDVD adds some relevant bullet points to the equation. First off, it's legal: That's because the program retains the DVD copy-protection, and even adds a further layer of DRM to the files. (Real is standing on the precedent set by the Kaleidescape's 2007 court victory.) So you shouldn't have to sweat a prison term for copyright violation next time you're toting your laptop through airport security. Secondly, it's transportable: you can rip the discs to an external USB hard drive and watch them on up to four other PCs on which you've installed the program. (OK, you can do this and more with underground DVD rippers, but the point is that RealDVD is offering a reasonable degree of viewing flexibility, instead of locking the movies onto just one computer.) And thirdly, the software is easy to install and use--anyone familiar with, say, iTunes should have no problem ripping DVDs with RealDVD."</em></p><p><img src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com/resizer/thumbs/size/600/dht/auto/1220906697.usr10.jpg" /></p><p>This is a feature that I really would like to see Microsoft include as part of Windows Media Center out of the box.&nbsp; From the FAQ, it appears that Real's offering does not currently integrate with WMC, but they plan on adding that in the future.&nbsp; Hopefully the legal spin is just cnet's spin because if the best thing you can say about your product is that it is legal, I think either the marketing or development team needs a kick in the butt.&nbsp; Finally has anyone ever heard of a person being even approached, much the less imprisoned for carrying ripped movies on a flight, or is that just more fear-mongering on the part of the article?</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

[Felix Torres]

1- MS *was* going to include DVD ripping in Vista MCE but backed away because of the Kalidascape lawsuit.
2- For a commercial product, not being sued is an important feature. ;-)

For those that may not have heard, Kalidascape is a high-end AV specialty vendor that wanted to provide its well-heeled customers with a DVD server capability to their wired house installations using a key-disk copy protection scheme; they used a bank of DVD changers to hold DVDs that were ripped to a server and streamed to multiple clients around the house. The studios sued, presumably, because it allowed people to watch the movie in more than one place instead of buying multiple copies (I'm sure the instigators were the usual suspects *cough*Disney/Fox*cough*.) even though removing a disk from the changer deactivated the ripped copy.

The studios lost big: the judge ruled that DVD licensing doesn't require the disk to be present at playback.

Kaleidescape Prevails in DVD Ripping Case - CE Pro Article from CE Pro (http://www.cepro.com/article/kaleidescape_prevails_in_dvd_ripping_case/)

If this is not overturned on the inevitable appeal, it means all DVD ripping and place-shifting apps are legal. Which is good, considering how common the practice is, right? :rolleyes:

The key issue is: "protected content cannot leave a closed ecosystem, as in a PC network". Which is what real is doing and what MS intended to provide.
If Real survives their (likely) upcoming lawsuit, the barrier will be moved a bit closer to rationality and fair use...

So, for a change, Real is playing with the good guys...

[Felix Torres]

Here's a nice summary on the state of "legal" DVD movie servers:
http://www.cepro.com/article/latest_on_dvd_ripping_realnetworks_control4_crestron_kaleidescape/D1/
Lots of money to be made by lawyers in upcoming months...:rolleyes:

[onlydarksets]

The studios lost big: the judge ruled that DVD licensing doesn't require the disk to be present at playback.

Kaleidescape Prevails in DVD Ripping Case - CE Pro Article from CE Pro (http://www.cepro.com/article/kaleidescape_prevails_in_dvd_ripping_case/)

If this is not overturned on the inevitable appeal, it means all DVD ripping and place-shifting apps are legal. Which is good, considering how common the practice is, right? :rolleyes:

I don't think so. This is about a contractual relationship between Kaleidescape and the DVD CCA. DMCA still controls on the issue of bypassing CSS for DVD ripping.

[Felix Torres]

I don't think so. This is about a contractual relationship between Kaleidescape and the DVD CCA. DMCA still controls on the issue of bypassing CSS for DVD ripping.

Ah, but you don't *need* to bypass CSS with the Kaleidascape and Real approach. They are copying the entire *disk* including encypted data and the extras. That's why the studios were arguing the contract; they couldn't argue CSS-cracking cause the stored data is fully encrypted.

And, on top of it, Real adds an *extra* layer of DRM to the image file.

[onlydarksets]

Ah, but you don't *need* to bypass CSS with the Kaleidascape and Real approach. They are copying the entire *disk* including encypted data and the extras. That's why the studios were arguing the contract; they couldn't argue CSS-cracking cause the stored data is fully encrypted.

And, on top of it, Real adds an *extra* layer of DRM to the image file.

When you said "all DVD ripping and place-shifting apps are legal", that implied apps like AnyDVD and DVD FabDecrypter would be legal. Can you clarify what apps you are talking about?

[Jason Dunn]

When you said "all DVD ripping and place-shifting apps are legal", that implied apps like AnyDVD and DVD FabDecrypter would be legal. Can you clarify what apps you are talking about?

Yeah, until the DMCA is killed off, apps like AnyDVD will not be legal.

[Felix Torres]

When you said "all DVD ripping and place-shifting apps are legal", that implied apps like AnyDVD and DVD FabDecrypter would be legal. Can you clarify what apps you are talking about?

I wasn't referring to pure decrypters that do nothing but bypass CSS, but rather "rippers" like the commercial apps that you can buy at any BB and CC to create iPod- and PSP-compatible video and also apps and devices like the movie servers in my second posting. Also, Sling-box type apps can find protection from the ruling that the disk doesn't have to be present at playback time. Remember, just a couple years ago, the studios were suing over remote-playback jukeboxes that allowed you to watch a DVD across a home network and even today Windows Media extenders can't play DVDs remotely even though it would be trivial for MS to implement it as part of its DVD jukebox support.

The ruling applies to the playback apps primarily, but it also opens a legal ripping door that Real is cleverly exploiting. If this ruling stands, we all get a lot more flexibility on how we can move video around, as long as it can said to reside within the same home network or device ecosystem. The key word is ecosystem.

And, I'm not alone in interpretting the ruling this way:
Is Your DVD Server Legal? Manufacturers Say Yes! - CE Pro Article from CE Pro (http://www.cepro.com/article/is_your_dvd_server_legal_manufacturers_say_yes/)

That's why I said lots of legal billable hours are forthcoming.
Disney and Fox will not take this development gracefully.
But until they get the ruling overturned or constrained...