I'm Doing a Digital Wall Upgrade: Suggestions Welcome!

[Jason Dunn]

<p>2008 is "The Year of the House" in the Dunn household, and that means upgrading our living environment. Ashley and I have been in our house for nearly seven years now, and seven years of living in the same place tends to create wear and tear. Beyond some of the basics such as getting the walls re-painted and a few yard-based projects completed (have I mentioned how much I loathe yard work?), we've decided to re-do the main wall in our living room. Here's how it looks today: <img border="1" src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com/resizer/thumbs/size/600/dht/auto/1214882527.usr1.jpg" /></p><p>It has suited its purpose thus far, but we want to evolve it further. Beyond the LCD TV hooked up to a computer in my downstairs office, the only TV we have in our house is the Toshiba DLP in the bonus room upstairs. That's our media room, and it's set up nicely for our use - but it can't accommodate more than three people on the single couch. We can fit more if they don't mind sitting on the floor with big pillows, but it's not ideal. We've discovered this year that we really want to be able to watch a DVD, or looks at pictures, in an environment that can fit more people - so we're going to transform our living room (which can fit eight to ten people comfortably on three couches) into something that will allow us to do exactly that. <MORE /></p><p>The only digital element in the photo above is a Roku Soundbridge audio player, connected to a pair of Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 speakers - the sub-woofer is right below the speakers, hidden from view by the couch. What we want to do is add a 42" or perhaps 46" LCD TV smack in the middle of the wall, right above the fireplace. The problem of course is that we didn't wire up the wall for that purpose, so we're going to need to rip up the wall to get it done. I've had an electrician come in, and what we're going to do is run power and coaxial cable up from the left to the middle of the wall. On the right is where I'm going to be placing the home theatre PC (more on that later), so we're going to have a conduit run down the wall where I can connect cables. Everything will terminate behind where the TV will go, and we're going to be ripping open that wall to add support for the TV mounting bracket.</p><p>On the TV front, I definitely want to go LCD and not Plasma, and I've been eyeing the Sharp Aqueos line over the past couple of weeks - I did a comparison of similar Sharp, LG, and Samsung TVs and the Sharp had superior reproduction of black levels and shadows. Since we're going to be using this TV to display my photos, I care about how well the TV can reproduce subtle visual elements, and the Sharp seems to have an advantage in that area. Any other TVs I should consider?</p><p>We also want to upgrade our shelving, and below is a design we saw in Thailand that we thought was incredibly cool. Our design will be slightly different, but the basic idea of each shelf being a single flowing line is what we want to capture. Of course, we're waiting to hear back from a carpenter about whether or not this will be possible to re-create, so we'll see... <img border="1" src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com/resizer/thumbs/size/600/dht/auto/1214883320.usr1.jpg" /></p><p>On the PC front, I was thinking of using a <a href="http://us.shuttle.com/barebone/Models/SD02XD.html" target="_blank">Shuttle SD02XD</a>. Ideally I'd want to run a single HDMI cable to the TV to get both audio and video, but does the on-board video solution on the Shuttle (an Intel GMA 950) need to support HDMI, or is an adaptor all I need? I wish Shuttle was using an embedded ATI GPU instead. I suppose I could build a regular-sized Shuttle and pick my components to include a real GPU, but I want to keep the PC as small and as quiet as possible. Suggestions welcome.</p><p>That's about it for now - as you can tell, in some ways I have more questions than answers, but I thought it would be worth sharing this journey with Digital Home Thoughts readers.</p><p><strong>UPDATE:</strong> The digital wall project is complete. <a href="http://www.digitalhomethoughts.com/news/show/93858/the-digital-wall-project-an-epic-tale.html" target="_blank">Read all about it!</a></p><p><em>Jason Dunn owns and operates <a href="http://www.thoughtsmedia.com" target="_blank">Thoughts Media Inc.</a>, a company dedicated to creating the best in online communities. He enjoys <a href="http://photos.jasondunn.com/" target="_blank">photography</a>, mobile devices, <a href="http://www.jasondunn.com" target="_blank">blogging</a>, digital media content creation/editing, and pretty much all technology. He lives in Calgary, Alberta, Canada with his lovely wife, and his sometimes obedient dog. He really hopes this project goes well.</em></p>

[uzziah0]

On the non-tech side, you might want to consider painting using two colors. Two or three walls one color and the remaining walls another color. We've done this in our living room / dining room and again in our bedroom. The different colors (if chosen well) punch up the room.
When we did the work, we hired someone to help pick colors. We picked up some samples from the paint store, and figured out some options for the other things in the room (like drapes) and the designer helped up pick great colors. It was worth the $100 or so she charged.

Another thing, when you're electrician figures out where he needs to cut out some drywall, you might have your general contractor actually cut the hole; since he'll be the one to fix the hole. Our electrician cut huge holes when he did stuff, and then our general contractor had to re-cut the holes anyway (not placed where then need to be for patching up the holes.

Good luck, have fun, and take pictures.

[Jason Dunn]

On the non-tech side, you might want to consider painting using two colors. Two or three walls one color and the remaining walls another color.

Ah yes, a feature wall. We discussed doing this, and really wanted to, but ultimately realized we couldn't. If you look at the picture in the upper right corner you can just see the first bar of a set of rails. We have a section of our wall cut away where the stairs go up to our second level...which means the whole wall is essentially one piece and we could find no way to have a feature wall without painting the WHOLE thing - and it goes up 20 feet on the other side outside that picture.

Another thing, when you're electrician figures out where he needs to cut out some drywall, you might have your general contractor actually cut the hole; since he'll be the one to fix the hole.

Thanks for the advice - the electrician we're using works with the drywall guy he recommended, so I'm hoping that means the two of them will coordinate. But I'll make sure of that before they start hacking at our walls. :)

[entropy1980]

So my question.... why not Plasma? My brother just picked up a new 52" Aquos and while nice, its contrast and black levels still pale in comparison to my Panisonic Plasma. Just curious why you chose LCD, I mean some of my smaller sets are LCD but for my main viewing I couldn't settle for anything less... just my $.02.

[Phronetix]

Hey Jason,

Out of interest, why did you want LCD over plasma? Everyone seems to have their reasons, and I have never heard yours.

I will admit to being totally pleased with our Pioneer plasma since we got it a couple months ago. LCD's were always a distant third after Pioneer and Panasonic plasma sets in my buying project, or as my wife called it, "Dennis' Project to Delay Buying a TV for Months or Maybe Years".

;-)

[ptyork]

The only other point I might make is that you may consider running Cat5/6 AND HDMI into the same junction box as your coax. You'll also be running all three of these to your HTPC box, so it might make sense to have your electrician "T" the conduit at the level of the TV and run a pipe to the junction box. This way you can run all three of these through the same conduit.

Also, looking at the picture and knowing what little I do about wiring, it looks as though you already have an outlet on the right that is likely either the beginning or the end of a circuit. Either way, it would be trivial to run power from this outlet up to the tv box and thus remove the need to tear up another section of wall. You'll likely be moving your power outlets to be nearer your components on that wall anyway and will thus be doing quite the damage to that side of the wall already. Why destroy both.

[ptyork]

Re: LCD vs. Plasma, for me it came down to power consumption.

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6475_7-6400401-3.html

I didn't have the budget or space for it (bedroom set this time around--I got the LG 42LG30 on sale this weekend at CC for < $900), but if you do, the Panasonic Viera TH-50PZ800U looks to be a good, no-compromise set. If other manufacturers follow suit with power savings, then the plasma vs. LCD debate might get back into full swing.

[Jason Dunn]

So my question.... why not Plasma?

Well, I've heard that plasma sucks up about 2x the power of LCDs, and that's something I'd like to avoid. As well, my general feeling is that Plasma is "old school" in terms of longevity because they've historically had problems...but I have to admit I haven't really looked hard at modern plasmas and may not be giving them a chance.

One factor swaying me toward the Sharp is that I can get it for cost + 5% from my local electronics store, which is about $1650 or so for the 46" model.

[Jason Dunn]

The only other point I might make is that you may consider running Cat5/6 AND HDMI into the same junction box as your coax.

Well, unfortunately because of the way the wiring was done in that room, I have power + coaxial cable on the left side of the fireplace, and power + Ethernet on the right side of the fireplace. So we have to rip up both sides of the drywall to get everything run into the center.

You'll also be running all three of these to your HTPC box, so it might make sense to have your electrician "T" the conduit at the level of the TV and run a pipe to the junction box. This way you can run all three of these through the same conduit.

I did a poor job explaining what was going to happen, but yes, that's exactly what we're doing - on the right side of that photo, we're going to run vaccu-flo pipes to create a conduit that will allow me to run future cables if I want from the box behind the TV (the mounting bracket essentially) down to the vaccu-flo port that will be down and hidden by the couch. On the left side, there won't be a conduit, we're just pulling the power + cable (coax) up and over - but that will require ripping up the drywall as well.

...it looks as though you already have an outlet on the right that is likely either the beginning or the end of a circuit. Either way, it would be trivial to run power from this outlet up to the tv box and thus remove the need to tear up another section of wall.

We're going to run power from the left side of the wall, but on the right side I still need the conduit for HDMI + whatever other cables I want to run...so I think we need to rip up the drywall for that. Or are you suggesting something different?

[Jason Dunn]

I will admit to being totally pleased with our Pioneer plasma since we got it a couple months ago.

Where did you even see Pioneer plasmas? Neither Visions, nor Best Buy, nor Future Shop carry them in Calgary.

[Phronetix]

Where did you even see Pioneer plasmas? Neither Visions, nor Best Buy, nor Future Shop carry them in Calgary.

Soundsaround.

;-) Drop your wife off at the scrapbooking store, then go there, and meet halfway for sushi afterward.

Okay, not quite halfway, but you'll need the extra time in the store.

[ptyork]

Well, unfortunately because of the way the wiring was done in that room, I have power + coaxial cable on the left side of the fireplace, and power + Ethernet on the right side of the fireplace. So we have to rip up both sides of the drywall to get everything run into the center.

We're going to run power from the left side of the wall, but on the right side I still need the conduit for HDMI + whatever other cables I want to run...so I think we need to rip up the drywall for that. Or are you suggesting something different?

Gotcha. Sounds like both sides are getting ripped up regardless. I didn't know the existing coax was on that side. One word of advice would be not to "couple" another coax cable onto the existing one to make it that last few feet to the back of the TV. Make a new "home run" if possible. It may be that your existing run is long enough to reach the TV once re-routed. If not, though, definitely consider running some fresh quad-shield RG6 from the main cable box rather than simply coupling on to the existing one. This can introduce interference due to lack of shielding at the junction and signal loss just due to the coupling. Shouldn't be all that hard to do since you can do any required "pulling" using the existing run.

I did a poor job explaining what was going to happen, but yes, that's exactly what we're doing - on the right side of that photo, we're going to run vaccu-flo pipes to create a conduit that will allow me to run future cables if I want from the box behind the TV (the mounting bracket essentially) down to the vaccu-flo port that will be down and hidden by the couch. On the left side, there won't be a conduit, we're just pulling the power + cable (coax) up and over - but that will require ripping up the drywall as well.

Okay, I see. You leave both ends of the conduit open. Ultimate in flexibility. My anal retentive nature always made me do things the hard way with junction boxes and custom covers. Your way is better in the long run so long as you can hide the open conduit.

BTW, the other benefit of LCD's is high ambient light viewing. I'm not sure what your living room situation is, but if your viewing in daylight (not even direct), plasma tends to get drowned out. That, and of course the ever dreaded burn-in for plasmas. Their picture is better under optimal conditions, but rarely are you achieving optimal conditions in a public space like a living room.

[EscapePod]

Where did you even see Pioneer plasmas? Neither Visions, nor Best Buy, nor Future Shop carry them in Calgary.

Best Buy (in the U.S.) has one of several Pioneer Plasmas on sale this week. Maybe not available in Canada???

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8869147&st=pioneer+plasma&lp=3&type=product&cp=1&id=1210290068342

(50" even has 10/100BaseT connector. 60" is also available)

[Gordo]

I always wondered about the heat from a fire causing problems with the TV. One web site I found mentioned that if the temperature above the mantel gets above 90F you can have problems. Might want to consider test this before proceeding.

[ptyork]

Best Buy (in the U.S.) has one of several Pioneer Plasmas on sale this week. Maybe not available in Canada???

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8869147&st=pioneer+plasma&lp=3&type=product&cp=1&id=1210290068342

(50" even has 10/100BaseT connector. 60" is also available)

I know you were just passing on info here, but my word! You'd have to LOVE watching TV or just have money to burn to spend this kind of dough on a 50 inch TV. $3600 on sale is quite amazing. I'm sure its great and wonderful and all, but us married folk, we'd get quite deaded buyin' som'in' like dis.

Though still resulting in the same state of dead for me, the Panasonic does seem much the better deal...if a $2700 TV could ever be considered a deal.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8740491&type=product&id=1202648738039&ref=09&loc=01&srccode=cii_5766179&cpncode=12-57002234-2

...and "better" at...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16889187091&nm_mc=OTC-C173T&cm_mmc=OTC-C173T-_-Plasma-_-Panasonic-_-89187091

[wesk]

Jason,

The LCD to get is the 46" Samsung (Model LN46A650). My son and I researched alot of LCD's before deciding on this one. Both my son and I have one now. :D The price has come down about $1000usd since it was released on 03/08.

A great site to get inexpensive HDMI and other cables is: monoprice.com (http://monoprice.com)

Plan your wiring for now and for the future. You can never have enough AC outlets. Plan on running cat5e to the LCD. (The LN46A650 has a LAN port) And most important: What ever size of conduit your electrician says you need, go at least one size bigger. You may need it in the future and it's better to have the capacity available than to wish you had put in bigger conduit.

Good luck on build.

Wes

[stlbud]

I'm assuming the fireplace works. How will you divert heat from the fireplace away from the LCD? The room seems small enough that you could run a fairly massive mantle from one wall to the other. Finish the space below the mantle differently from above. You could still use the serpentine shelves above the mantle. Keep them symmetrical so they frame the LCD.

You already have a big box on the floor in the form of a subwoofer, why not another big box on the floor in the form of a more manageable HTPC? Put a side table over each or both and no one will even know they are there. The side table serves 2 purposes. It keeps guests from using your expensive equipment as a drink coaster and hides the equipment.

[mrozema]

I just saw this Acer Aspire PC with HDMI out. Looks kinda slick, being and black and all.
http://gizmodo.com/398056/acer-aspire-x1200-series-mini+pcs-stuff-hdmi-jack-9-usb-ports-and-more-in-a-tiny-space

If you do pull a new run of RG6 (which isn't a bad idea at all), you might want to check if you can pull it to the right side of the mantle. Figure out which way your floor joists run. If they run parallel to the wall you're working on, it wouldn't be much more work to poke a hole on the right side of the fireplace and fish the cable up through.

[OKCrew]

Just a couple of thoughts...

Sound, the hard surface floor will cause some problems but strategic area rugs/carpets can take care of that. Also, home made sound panels at reflection points on your walls would assist in tuning the sound envrironment. They could fit into your "modern" asthetic tastes also.

Video, I would go with a nice 42" 1080P LCD for daily HTPC and TV viewing but would supplement it with front projection. You can have an electric screen that would decend in front of the LCD. The screen could be hidden in a valence or recessed in the ceiling (kits for this are getting very reasonable). Without knowing the dimensions of the room, I think a nice 101" or at least 92" could be achieved. The main factors would be the viewing distance of the seating and the possible throw distance.

In any case with whatever you do, you should visit the home theater building forums at the AVScience forums. Just like when you research any of you other "toys" you will get caught up in the debates and discussions and get a thousand ideas for your room. Have fun and show us progress pictures and explain your building and equipment choice decisions for us.

[Jason Dunn]

Soundsaround.

Uh-oh. I was afraid you were going to say that. Soundaround is a den of thieves as far as I'm concerned...I hate going in there and avoid the store whenever possible. But that doesn't matter as much as the price - since this is a secondary TV, I care less about the sheer quality of the picture - and a quick call to Soundaround confirmed what I was thinking: they don't have anything smaller than a 50", and the 720p model is $2498 while the 1080p model is $3998. I won't be using this TV enough to justify paying more than 2x over what I can get the 46" Sharp LCD TV for...so there's why I'm saying no to this brand of plasma TV. :D

[Phronetix]

Uh-oh. I was afraid you were going to say that. Soundaround is a den of thieves as far as I'm concerned...I hate going in there and avoid the store whenever possible.

***long quote trimmed by mod JD***

Hmmm, I never felt that there. I certainly got that "I'm on commission sales" predatory gaze, but sales tactics never work on me because I know more about product than the sales staff by the time I shop.

However, at that price point the 42 inch panasonic PZ80 is the best plasma one can buy. It was my second choice.

Happy buying. Sounds like you have a great deal waiting anyway. Please don't tell me that you like the hyper-realistic 120hz sampling. Then, we're cool. LOL.

[Jason Dunn]

Best Buy (in the U.S.) has one of several Pioneer Plasmas on sale this week. Maybe not available in Canada?

Correct. BestBuy.ca doesn't have a single listing for Pioneer TV sets - strangely enough though, Pioneer Canada lists Best Buy as a dealer. Ultimately it doesn't matter though, the Pioneer sets are just too expensive for a secondary TV that might only get used twice a week.

[Jason Dunn]

It may be that your existing run is long enough to reach the TV once re-routed. If not, though, definitely consider running some fresh quad-shield RG6 from the main cable box rather than simply coupling on to the existing one. This can introduce interference due to lack of shielding at the junction and signal loss just due to the coupling. Shouldn't be all that hard to do since you can do any required "pulling" using the existing run.

Great point - thanks. I'm pretty sure what the electrician will do is yank the cable from the mounting down below and run it to the TV directly, but I'll make sure he doesn't split it off.

[timmy]

I don't know your budget, but since you were actually talking about a "digital wall", why not go for one of these

http://forums.thoughtsmedia.com/f305/microsoft-puts-surface-like-features-into-touchwall-89184.html

:D

[Jason Dunn]

Happy buying. Sounds like you have a great deal waiting anyway. Please don't tell me that you like the hyper-realistic 120hz sampling. Then, we're cool. LOL.

I actually haven't seen live demos of the 120hz stuff, so I can't say for sure. :)

[Jason Dunn]

I don't know your budget, but since you were actually talking about a "digital wall", why not go for one of these...

Haha...I wish! :D

[Jason Dunn]

However, at that price point the 42 inch panasonic PZ80 is the best plasma one can buy. It was my second choice.

I'll look into that one the the price on the 50" is within my comfort zone, and the 42" is below it. But why can't I find any reviews of that TV online? Sheesh - it's like no one owns one. :rolleyes:

[Jason Dunn]

I always wondered about the heat from a fire causing problems with the TV. One web site I found mentioned that if the temperature above the mantel gets above 90F you can have problems. Might want to consider test this before proceeding.

An interesting point that I hadn't considered. Thankfully we use the fireplace maybe twice a year, so I don't imagine this will a problem. I might do a test though to check what the temperature is when I turn it on though...

[Jason Dunn]

Ok, so I went to Soundsaround and looked at the Pioneer plasma TVs...and wow, they ARE nice. The Panasonic plasma TVs are also very nice as well. It looks like in my $2K-and-under budget I can either get a 720p Pioneer or a 1080p Panasonic. I'm leaning toward the Panasonic because I'm going to be running Windows Media Center on it and displaying photos, so the 1920 x 1200 resolution will make for some might nice looking pictures.

Still pondering which TV to get...

[OzBert]

Jason,

Are you sure it is such a good idea, from an ergonomic point of view, to have to look upwards all the time when watching TV?

.CHeers from Switzerland
OzBert

[Jason Dunn]

Are you sure it is such a good idea, from an ergonomic point of view, to have to look upwards all the time when watching TV?

Would I like it to be about 12 inches lower? Sure. Does it really matter that much? Not really. :) Remember this isn't our primary place to be watching TV or movies.

[Jason Dunn]

For anyone curious, after a fair amount of research and eyeballing, I've decided to go with the brand new LG 50PG70:

http://ca.lge.com/en/products/model/detail/plasmatv_50pg70.jhtml

I can get it for about $2100, and it has a bunch of killer features - and after reading a bunch of stuff on AVS Forums about black levels, and seeing it in person, I'm convinced it will do a good job for me. And it looks GORGEOUS up on a wall. :D

I'll be posting photos and updates to the front page along the way as this project unfolds...

[fyiguy]

Jason,

I hope the wall isn't up yet...

If you have the option to pull more cables I would. Go with in-wall rated cables(www.monoprice.com (http://www.monoprice.com) has the best prices around and have used them exclusively) - Standard RCA composite (go with a 3 wire yellow, red, white) for other options later on if needed you never know, component (http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10235&style=) (red,blue,green, and audio red,white),1/4" stereo audio (for audio or IR repeaters) optical cable,VGA/DVI, and USB (great for IR repeaters from your computer and hooking up Xbox accessory items), and a pull string in a conduit(make sure you have firestop on both ends for code purposes) for pulling up additional cables later on and when you pull a cable, pull another string. Oh yeah go with in wall rated HDMI v1.3a (http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240)with ferrite cores too :)

Put your power in a clock box(it is recessed into the wall so all your plugs won't stick out -great for a surge surpressor to protect your TV- the Belkin portable one works well) and if possible you can terminate the cables to a nice wallplate (Monprice (http://www.monoprice.com/products/search.asp?keyword=wall+plate) sells them too) for a neater install if you want to, but adds to the cost about $10 and the amount of cables needed.

Monoprice also has some nice wall mounts for around $55 and under. I went with a 15 degree up/down tiltable wall mount that allows for 40 degree of swing in the left and right direction as well as mounting flush to the wall. It also can be pulled away from the wall about 5"-11". It literally took less than 10 minutes to install to the studs (most of it was taken measuring the optimal height and location). Good way to do it is get a piece of cardboard that is the same size of the television, mark off the VESA mounting screw locations for your mounting bracket, and tape it to the wall with painters tape to see if that the height and location is good for you then make a template for your mount location with the cardboard positioned and drill your holes where your studs are.

Remember most PCs will only allow either digital out or analog out and not both. So you will have digital audio to the TV only. If you plan on adding a receiver for video switching make sure it can upconvert analog sources to digital if you have them and the other way around (down convert) if you plan on using audio zones most receivers are analog only.

On the PC side of things, consider power and price point, expandability. The current price of laptops makes for lower power requirements, quiet options for home theater PCs. Especially using network based tuners like HD Home Run (http://www.9thtee.com/hdhomerun.htm) and laptops with full HDMI out, like the ones from HP or you could use a separate DVI to HDMI connector and audio cable. Shuttle cases and others like Zalman,Silverstone,Origien, all allow for expandability and lower power options may work as well. The nicest stand alone option for a small low power MCE PC is the MiniMCE (http://www.pcalchemy.com/product_info.php/pName/minimce-m2b-mini-media-center-black-t2050-core-duo-1gb-160gb-hd-dl-dvdrw/manufacturers_id/100) for $499, but I don't think it will fit this installment.

Good Luck and keep us informed!

[Jason Dunn]

The digital wall project is finished:

http://www.digitalhomethoughts.com/news/show/93858/