Diamond In The Rough: Details Emerging

[Nurhisham Hussein]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/04/28/more-info-on-htcs-new-devices/' target='_blank'>http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008...cs-new-devices/</a><br /><br /></div><em>&quot;The new handsets will be called the HTC Touch Diamond, HTC Touch Pro, and the HTC Touch Dual Pro. The Touch Diamond is the Diamond, the Touch Pro is the Raphael, and the Touch Dual Pro is apparently a refresh of the existing HTC Touch Dual.&quot;</em><br /><br /><img src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com/resizer/thumbs/size/500/spt/auto/1209519639.usr14226.jpg" alt="" /><br /><br />Things are clearing up a bit about HTC's new <a target="_blank" href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/news/show/88734/htc-raphael-and-diamond-for-sprint.html">Raphael and Diamond devices</a>. They'll have WM6.1 (natch), 520MHz Qualcomm processors, 7.2MBit HSPA, FM Radio, 128MB RAM, 256MB ROM, 3.1MP cameras, WiFi, BT2.0+EDR, eGPS, and 2.8&quot; VGA screens. In addition the Raphael will have TV out and the Diamond 4GB flash storage. Just remember, as far as we know both will be CDMA only - so far.

[Duncan]

Just remember, as far as we know both will be CDMA only - so far.

Assuming that the 6 May event will be to launch these new handsets, and bearing in mind the event is in London, the odds of those devices being CDMA only would be slim to none.

Added to which, even if the 6 May event has nothing to do with them, I'd still think it improbable that they would be CDMA only. The market for Windows Mobile smartphones in the GSM only EMEA is still considerably bigger and more dominant than the CDMA market. I'd put good money on a dual launch of GSM and CDMA versions - hit the two biggest markets (outside of Asia-Pacific) at once.

[nosmohtac]

I can't wait for the Diamond. I hope they come to Sprint first!!

If they are CDMA only though, why are they HSPA?

From the statements by HTC execs, I would expect a worldwide release of both GSM and CDMA variants.

It won't hurt my feelings a bit if the first ones to be released are CDMA. It's about time we received some VGA love in the CDMA world. Especially considering I bought my Toshiba e805 (VGA) back in 2003.

Whoever ends up being the lucky carrier to get their hands on these first, will have no problem unloading them with those specs.

I might yet own another HTC device. Let's hope these have hardware acceleration though ;)

[JKingGrim]

I can't wait for the Diamond. I hope they come to Sprint first!!

If they are CDMA only though, why are they HSPA?Yes, this confused me too. HSPA but CDMA only?

A while ago this would have excited me, but I have given up on CDMA. I plan on leaving sprint and getting a tilt until the xperia x1 comes out, then getting my dream phone, the x1. This is too little too late.

[palur]

I am not sure if the specs fascinate me. The screen size is still 2.8". I would love to see slightly larger screens. Eten already has similar specs as Diamond and what way this is superior (may be touchflow!). Iphone killer should at least have larger screen. It is my personal opinion.

[Frankie1]

I am not sure if the specs fascinate me. The screen size is still 2.8". I would love to see slightly larger screens. Eten already has similar specs as Diamond and what way this is superior (may be touchflow!). Iphone killer should at least have larger screen. It is my personal opinion.


I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU!
You would think that the outrageous sucess of the iPhone would have prompted AT LEAST one 3.5" display on an HTC device, I guess these num nuts don't get it.

I have been hacking my HTC Universal, but the hardware is becoming increasingly out dated. So I have moved on to my extremely buggy XDA Flame, while keeping my Universal, and my XDA IIs as spare 3.5" display devices.

Again: I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Marty1781]

I am not sure if the specs fascinate me. The screen size is still 2.8". I would love to see slightly larger screens. Eten already has similar specs as Diamond and what way this is superior (may be touchflow!). Iphone killer should at least have larger screen. It is my personal opinion.

I haven't checked in a while so I could be wrong but I was under the impression the Eten devices similar to the Diamond/Raphael only have 64MB RAM, which Mogul/6800 owners know all too well is barely enough to run WM6 and essentially cripples the device. Also, while these new HTC devices may not have a physically larger screen, they are higher resolution than the iPhone (480x320 vs 640x480). People always talk about how big and beautiful the iPhone's screen is but personally I think Apple is really getting a free pass here because to have a 3.5" screen and only make it 480x320 I think is unexcusable. If HTC did that, they'd never hear the end of it. The 2.8" VGA screen, TV out, faster processor, WM6.1, and proper amount of RAM I think makes the Raphael a nice update to HTC's current lineup

[whydidnt]

I am not sure if the specs fascinate me. The screen size is still 2.8". I would love to see slightly larger screens. Eten already has similar specs as Diamond and what way this is superior (may be touchflow!). Iphone killer should at least have larger screen. It is my personal opinion.

Agreed, the iPhone has set the bar, yet we still don't have a single Windows Mobile device that approaches the iPhone's specs. It's almost like HTC is trying NOT to compete with the iPhone. Sure the VGA is nice, but on a 2.8" screen you lose most of the advantage provided, not even considering that most of the OS simply pixel doubles anyway.

Also, we are graced with a whole whopping 4 GB of RAM in the Diamond. Last I checked, the iPhone has 16 GB built in. Even if I add the largest MicroSD available, I still only get 12 GB of storage with one of these devices.

I like the choice they are giving here, though - no keyboard, vertical slider w/numeric keyboard or horizontal slider with qwerty. Just think if they took these devices and stretched that screen to 3.5" along with 16 or even 32 GB of RAM! Throw in the new Opera Mobile, which while still buggy and slow, does a fantastic job of rendering, BTW... and you have officially ended my (and probably several others) iPhone lust!

Common HTC, Acer, Dell, Sony, HP, Samsung etc, quit holding back on us and just give us what we want!!:D

[virain]

Agreed, the iPhone has set the bar, ...:D

I may agree that iPhone gave new form factor to mobile devices, but to demand from respectable WM maker to make an iPhone clone running WM is kind of silly. BTW there is a Meizu, if you want a clone. What HTC is trying to do here, is to create competitive device, but yet, remain unique. As far as for memory size, with iPhone you get ONLY what it has on board 8G or 16G with these new HTC it's unlimited, as you can switch memory cards as it suites you.
Although, I don't see myself buying one of these new HTC PPC, unless they smart up and become more standard with the market, s.a. STANDARD mini USB, STANDARD headphone jack, etc... I mean, even SE smart up with Experia to make it more standardized with the rest of the market, and yes, of course, slightly bigger screen would be welcome. :)

[Frankie1]

Also, while these new HTC devices may not have a physically larger screen, they are higher resolution than the iPhone (480x320 vs 640x480). People always talk about how big and beautiful the iPhone's screen is but personally I think Apple is really getting a free pass here because to have a 3.5" screen and only make it 480x320 I think is unexcusable. If HTC did that, they'd never hear the end of it. The 2.8" VGA screen, TV out, faster processor, WM6.1, and proper amount of RAM I think makes the Raphael a nice update to HTC's current lineup

I disagree with the part about the physically larger screen part of your post,
What is the point of having higher resolution on a smaller screen, it makes no sense, they might as well have stuck with the QVGA resolution if it's going to be on a 2.8" screen.

Have you ever really used a 3.5" VGA display device? Once you do you can never go back. I DO agree that the iPhone could have done better with the resolution but the graphics on the device seem unaffected by the lack of resolution, so maybe they his a sweet spot (And no I'm not an iPhone fanboy, I"m actually a WM enthusiast and think the iPhone is a WM knock-off with improvements, but I guess every device has inherent characteristics from a previous one.)

My Point is:
Most people are partial to larger screens, just ask them. And HTC is no stranger to that, my first device was a PPC 6600, every major US carrier at the time, and it had a 3.5 inch screen and the battery life was the best I've experienced.

So for HTC to manufacture a device which such specs would not be an iPhone clone, it would be more like them going back to the basics which proved to be successful.

[Duncan]

Also, we are graced with a whole whopping 4 GB of RAM in the Diamond. Last I checked, the iPhone has 16 GB built in. Even if I add the largest MicroSD available, I still only get 12 GB of storage with one of these devices.

Actually MicroSD cards come in 12 and 16 GB sized now (and at good prices). So you can give your Pocket PC 16 or 20 GB, and have the ability to boost to as high as 36 GB without needing to replace your device when 32 GB MicroSD cards become available.

[whydidnt]

Actually MicroSD cards come in 12 and 16 GB sized now (and at good prices). So you can give your Pocket PC 16 or 20 GB, and have the ability to boost to as high as 36 GB without needing to replace your device when 32 GB MicroSD cards become available.

Please, tell me where I can buy one of these! I've been looking and can't find one that is avialable and in-stock anywhere. I would love for your statement to be true, but my experience is that these aren't in-stock at any retailer I've come across. They aren't listed on Sandisk's site, either. I've heard announcements and found places to order, but always they are back-ordered or coming soon.

[whydidnt]

but to demand from respectable WM maker to make an iPhone clone running WM is kind of silly.

First off, I'm not asking for a clone - I'm asking for some of the better hardware capabilities to be included. The fact that Apple has done it means that we aren't dealing with engineering constraints, rather with business decisions. Putting that aside, what is silly about it? Apple has created the most popular smart phone ever released. (We can argue how smart it really is, but that's for a different discussion). Why wouldn't the competition take the strongest features of said device and attempt to build upon it?

Your line of thinking is too typical among Windows Mobile fans, and one of the reasons why companies such as HTC continue to milk us for lousy incremental upgrades such as this. Please give me a legitimate argument why HTC can't include 16 GB of flash RAM in their high end devices, or why they can't seem to make a phone with a screen larger than 2.8". The only answer I can think of is that they choose not to, because they need to stretch this product cycle longer.

The Windows Mobile OS has not evolved quickly, the least we could hope for is the hardware to progress beyond 2003 standards.

[Frankie1]

First off, I'm not asking for a clone - I'm asking for some of the better hardware capabilities to be included. The fact that Apple has done it means that we aren't dealing with engineering constraints, rather with business decisions. Putting that aside, what is silly about it? Apple has created the most popular smart phone ever released. (We can argue how smart it really is, but that's for a different discussion). Why wouldn't the competition take the strongest features of said device and attempt to build upon it?

Your line of thinking is too typical among Windows Mobile fans, and one of the reasons why companies such as HTC continue to milk us for lousy incremental upgrades such as this. Please give me a legitimate argument why HTC can't include 16 GB of flash RAM in their high end devices, or why they can't seem to make a phone with a screen larger than 2.8". The only answer I can think of is that they choose not to, because they need to stretch this product cycle longer.

The Windows Mobile OS has not evolved quickly, the least we could hope for is the hardware to progress beyond 2003 standards.


I Absoluteley Agree!

[Duncan]

Please, tell me where I can buy one of these! I've been looking and can't find one that is avialable and in-stock anywhere. I would love for your statement to be true, but my experience is that these aren't in-stock at any retailer I've come across. They aren't listed on Sandisk's site, either. I've heard announcements and found places to order, but always they are back-ordered or coming soon.

You've got a point there. I hadn't noticed (on the grounds that I haven't needed one yet) but yes, all my links show pre-orders or 'coming soon'.

At least the potential is there though.

[virain]

First off, I'm not asking for a clone - I'm asking for some of the better hardware capabilities to be included. The fact that Apple has done it means that we aren't dealing with engineering constraints, rather with business decisions. Putting that aside, what is silly about it? Apple has created the most popular smart phone ever released. (We can argue how smart it really is, but that's for a different discussion). Why wouldn't the competition take the strongest features of said device and attempt to build upon it?
And reading your post there are no weak points in the iPhone, at least that's how it looks.

Your line of thinking is too typical among Windows Mobile fans, and one of the reasons why companies such as HTC continue to milk us for lousy incremental upgrades such as this. Please give me a legitimate argument why HTC can't include 16 GB of flash RAM in their high end devices, or why they can't seem to make a phone with a screen larger than 2.8". The only answer I can think of is that they choose not to, because they need to stretch this product cycle longer.
There are some legit demands and some "just because someone else has it" I use my WM device for primarily business purpose, and what WM are good at. More RAM and faster processor, I agree, but higher capacity internal storage? Some of it can be used to install programs, but to save files, thank you memory card is more secure and useful as you can move it from one device to another. BTW you can't even share files with iPhone using BT, and it will have speacial "repository" for 3rd party apps, that means less room for your music and movies. On top of that higher flash memory would mean higher prices, HTC devices are not as cheap right as it is. In fact on average they are double iPhone price. And as far as gradual upgrades..... I have not upgrade my Mio A701 for almost 3 years already, and, unless T-Mo USA opens 3G network, and good device that will work on this network is available, I'll wait for WM7. Nobody forces you to buy a new device, unless it's satisfies you completely. :)

[whydidnt]

And reading your post there are no weak points in the iPhone, at least that's how it looks.

Oh please, my post was not meant as a review of the iPhone, or even to compare the two devices-- simply a statement that from a hardware perspective the iPhone provides a higher resolution screen and more memory, while nine months later we still don't find a WM device that provides this. Obviously some consumers find these important or we wouldn't see the popularity of the iPhone, particularly at larger capacity specifications.


I have not upgrade my Mio A701 for almost 3 years already, and, unless T-Mo USA opens 3G network, and good device that will work on this network is available, I'll wait for WM7. Nobody forces you to buy a new device, unless it's satisfies you completely. :)
[/quote]

I think you have proven my point. In three years time you haven't seen a compelling reason to upgrade your windows mobile device. My opinion is that's because we have only seen minor, incremental upgrades, while the competition has released devices that surpass WM in many ways.

One final point, what we each feel is important in devices such as this are certainly going to differ. That doesn't mean either of us is right or wrong, just that we have different issues we want solved, or prefer to solve those in different ways. However, I feel as though MS and it's partners have become complacent and I want them to feel some urgency to move this platform into the 21st century.

I want Windows Mobile to succeed, but these tiny incremental upgrades seem to me very similar to what Palm did back in the early part of this decade, and we all saw how far that got them. We heard "people don't want a color screen", "Nobody uses bluetooth", "Why do you need more than 4 MB of memory", and even recently, "WiFi drains the battery too fast". To me, your points sound familiar to these, and if MS doesn't start feeling the heat soon, in 5 years we'll be talking about the good old days when Windows mobile allowed us to do all this "stuff" on the go, but it no longer exists.

[virain]

Frankly, I don't have any personal feelings towards OS, be it WM, Mac, Palm, Android, or something new. And that's what I am coming from.
WM have not advanced much in a years, true, as far as UI concern. It did great progress as far as functionality, and that's why iPhone licenses it's parts and bits to be more appealing to business users, and not only to them. And that's why it looks like it makes mile long steps to new and great things that"no one has yet", although it just playing catch up. For now it's just a "pretty face".
Palm? on it's last breath, IMHO.
Android? Still we have to see what it has to offer.
Symbian, too proprietary.
So, I don't see any other OS, but WM that is powerful enough to satisfy my mobile computing needs. Of,course, if tomorrow, I see Apple or Android to come up with something that has all the tricks and whistles that WM has and be more stable, user friendly, and cheaper than WM. I will switch without hesitation. After all smartphone is just a tool, not a item to be worshiped :)

[Marty1781]

I disagree with the part about the physically larger screen part of your post,
What is the point of having higher resolution on a smaller screen, it makes no sense, they might as well have stuck with the QVGA resolution if it's going to be on a 2.8" screen.


The point of a 2.8" VGA screen is to be able to fit more information within the same space as a 2.8" QVGA screen, thus you don't have to use a larger screen and don't have to increase the size of the device. I don't see how you can pass judegment on a 2.8" VGA screen without having actually used it. HTC isn't stupid. I suspect the screen will be just fine and very usable.


My Point is:
Most people are partial to larger screens, just ask them. And HTC is no stranger to that, my first device was a PPC 6600, every major US carrier at the time, and it had a 3.5 inch screen and the battery life was the best I've experienced.

So for HTC to manufacture a device which such specs would not be an iPhone clone, it would be more like them going back to the basics which proved to be successful.

I understand that you liked the larger screen but also keep in mind that having a screen that size contributed to making the phone somehwat larger and that there are a lot of people that find a phone that size unacceptable. Personally, I never considered the PPC-6600 because I just felt the device was too big. I think people in general want their portable electronics as compact as possible (while still being usable obviously) so I believe the move to 2.8" screens with the same resolution is one factor that allowed for smaller WM phones from HTC. And I think having more compact WM phones is also one of the factors that have allowed these types of devices to gain in popularity from the days of the PPC-6600. So from that logic, it would appear the move to 2.8" screens was a good one for HTC. So based on that, there's really no reason for them to go back to the "basics". Now, if HTC could use a 3.5" VGA screen without increasing the overall size of the device then I think we would have the best of both worlds. But for now, I think device compactness is a more important consideration in the market than screen size and why we will continue to see 2.8" screens from HTC.

[Frankie1]

The point of a 2.8" VGA screen is to be able to fit more information within the same space as a 2.8" QVGA screen, thus you don't have to use a larger screen and don't have to increase the size of the device. I don't see how you can pass judegment on a 2.8" VGA screen without having actually used it. HTC isn't stupid. I suspect the screen will be just fine and very usable.



I understand that you liked the larger screen but also keep in mind that having a screen that size contributed to making the phone somehwat larger and that there are a lot of people that find a phone that size unacceptable. Personally, I never considered the PPC-6600 because I just felt the device was too big. I think people in general want their portable electronics as compact as possible (while still being usable obviously... .

what you are saying does sound nice but recent statistics along with the millions of iPhone adopters (not including myself) would have to disagree with you.

I do believe that many people find smaller form factors appealing, but there is obviously a market for individuals who prefer larger displays.

I have used many 2.8 inch display devices VGA and QVGA but always revert back to my devices with larger displays.

I like this part:
Yes, you can fit more information on a smaller screen with better resolution, but you’ll have to, in-turn, make the contents smaller to fit more onto the display. So if you keep that same illogical way of thinking our devices will have needles as styluses (and it’s getting close).
Simply put: bigger screen = easier to use.

I do consider myself an advanced user having owned over about a dozen different WM mobile devices over the years so I’m not talking out of my rear when I post. For what it’s worth: I’ve recently settle on 3: XDA Flame, HTC Universal, and XDA IIS, (all hacked of course). I’m not sure where you get the idea that I have never owned a smaller screen device (HTC Touch, Sprint Mogul, PPC 6700, HTC Wizard, to name a few)

[palur]

I currently have XDA Flame for pda purposes and AT&T tilt for phone. I have owned >12 devices. each person's requirements are different. I find it easier to navigate internet or show photos or even demonstrate videos on a 3.8" screen than on Tilt. Tilt is an excellent device but for people like me, prefer to carry at least 3.5" and above (but thin) pda phone than a 2.8" screen device with same capabilities.
I know many users may still prefer small 2.8" screen. Each one's taste and requirements are different. My complaint is that we do not have much of an option at all. They can still make 2.8" and a 3.5" devices rather clinging to 2.8" alone.
I am sure many will agree with me and many disagree. that is why we need different size devices.
Just my opinion.

[Frankie1]

I currently have XDA Flame for pda purposes and AT&T tilt for phone. I have owned >12 devices. each person's requirements are different. I find it easier to navigate internet or show photos or even demonstrate videos on a 3.8" screen than on Tilt. Tilt is an excellent device but for people like me, prefer to carry at least 3.5" and above (but thin) pda phone than a 2.8" screen device with same capabilities.
I know many users may still prefer small 2.8" screen. Each one's taste and requirements are different. My complaint is that we do not have much of an option at all. They can still make 2.8" and a 3.5" devices rather clinging to 2.8" alone.
I am sure many will agree with me and many disagree. that is why we need different size devices.
Just my opinion.

WELL PUT, I COMPLETELY AGREE!!
a aquaintence of mine recetly purchased an iPhone (primarily for the large display) and shortly afterwards exchanged it in for the Tilt (because the business functionlity and hardware keyboard) It sounds to me like her perfect device would have a display and demensions like the iPhone, but with the same functionality and versatility (hardware keyboard, business apps) as the tilt.

What you said was absolutely correct about us having no choice! If I wanted a device with >2.5" dispaly what choices do I have?

I can get an unlocked HTC advantage, but that has a 5" display and only operates with speakerphone

Or I can import a device that's not fully compatible with our carriers in the US.

Basically we have no choice! I had my hope up with the HTC Omni, but that was a teaser. And the i-Mate 7150 ended up being vapor ware.

So I'll port my phones and hope I can hack it to decency

[Don't Panic!]

Ah, large screen lovers. Where were you guys when I was beating the bush about how small these converged device screens were getting? Screen size was a major reason I was so long getting into the converged device world. I still think a really small phone for a modem combined with a large screen Pocket PC is a good thing. But darn it they've stopped making Pocket PCs. ARGHH!

[whydidnt]

Ah, large screen lovers. Where were you guys when I was beating the bush about how small these converged device screens were getting? Screen size was a major reason I was so long getting into the converged device world. I still think a really small phone for a modem combined with a large screen Pocket PC is a good thing. But darn it they've stopped making Pocket PCs. ARGHH!

For me --- Apple has proven you can deliver a 3.5" screen in a reasonably sized package. Compare the size of the iPhone to something like the 3.5" iPaq 63XX or HTC PDA2K. There is a signficant difference. I tried both those devices and they were too big for me to use as my primary cell phone. Since we now know we can get the best of both worlds--screen size in a reasonably sized package, why can't we get a Windows Mobile device like this?

[virain]

Ah, large screen lovers. Where were you guys when I was beating the bush about how small these converged device screens were getting? Screen size was a major reason I was so long getting into the converged device world. I still think a really small phone for a modem combined with a large screen Pocket PC is a good thing. But darn it they've stopped making Pocket PCs. ARGHH!
I almost agree with you,although small screen smartphone, like that Diamond that's coming out, or Tilt in combination with UMPC is more productive. Now that more powerful Intel Atom processor is available. As it improves performance of UMPC combined with small, 4.8 - 7" (depends on your needs) screen and full blown OS (XP or Vista) gives you flexibility and power on the go.

[Marty1781]

what you are saying does sound nice but recent statistics along with the millions of iPhone adopters (not including myself) would have to disagree with you.


I don't think so because I'm not disagreeing that larger screens are nice or that many people prefer them. Here's the difference though. The iPhone, even with its large screen, is still a compact device, the PPC-6600 was not. HTC has not yet shown the ability to make a compact device with a 3.5" screen, and thus why they are probably still using 2.8" screens, to keep the overall size of the device down. If HTC can use a 3.5" VGA screen and still manage to keep the device compact (unlike the 6600), then I think that would go a long way to really haveing a great device. And like I said in my previous post, HTC isn't stupid. I suspect if using a 3.5" VGA screen in their devices was reasonably doable from a design, engineering, and financial standpoint, they would pursue it (and who knows, maybe they are and they're just not far enough along in the development process to release such a device).


I do believe that many people find smaller form factors appealing, but there is obviously a market for individuals who prefer larger displays.


No doubt.


I like this part:
Yes, you can fit more information on a smaller screen with better resolution, but you’ll have to, in-turn, make the contents smaller to fit more onto the display. So if you keep that same illogical way of thinking our devices will have needles as styluses (and it’s getting close).


Now that's just getting a bit ridiculous. Its a pretty reasonable assumption that while our portable electronics tend to get smaller, its unlikely that device manufacturers are going to keep increasing the resolution of the screens such that they become unusable and need a needle as a stylus. I realize you were being sarcastic (at least I hope so) but I get the point you were trying to make about small screens and high resolutions. Still, I'm pretty confident HTC knows the limit of what is reasonably usable and what isn't so I doubt it will ever get to the point where we have high resolution screens that we can't use.


Simply put: bigger screen = easier to use.


Maybe but that doesn't mean that a smaller screen with the same resolution still isn't highly usable. In fact, if the smaller screen has additional benefits (such as keeping the size of the device down or lower power consumption), then it make more sense to go with the smaller screen. Look, I get you like the larger screen but try to realize that there are a lot of other factors HTC has to consider before they can implement a screen like that.


I’m not sure where you get the idea that I have never owned a smaller screen device (HTC Touch, Sprint Mogul, PPC 6700, HTC Wizard, to name a few)


I didn't say you never owned a "smaller screen device," I said I didn't know how you could pass judgement on a 2.8" VGA screen without having used it. If you have used a device with such a screen, please let me know which one(s). I'd definitely like to try and check one out in person to see just how usable the screen is.

[Frankie1]

I don't think so because I'm not disagreeing that larger screens are nice or that many people prefer them. Here's the difference though. The iPhone, even with its large screen, is still a compact device, the PPC-6600 was not. HTC has not yet shown the ability to make a compact device with a 3.5" screen, and thus why they are probably still using 2.8" screens, to keep the overall size of the device down. If HTC can use a 3.5" VGA screen and still manage to keep the device compact (unlike the 6600), then I think that would go a long way to really haveing a great device. And like I said in my previous post, HTC isn't stupid. I suspect if using a 3.5" VGA screen in their devices was reasonably doable from a design, engineering, and financial standpoint, they would pursue it (and who knows, maybe they are and they're just not far enough along in the development process to release such a device).



No doubt.



Now that's just getting a bit ridiculous. Its a pretty reasonable assumption that while our portable electronics tend to get smaller, its unlikely that device manufacturers are going to keep increasing the resolution of the screens such that they become unusable and need a needle as a stylus. I realize you were being sarcastic (at least I hope so) but I get the point you were trying to make about small screens and high resolutions. Still, I'm pretty confident HTC knows the limit of what is reasonably usable and what isn't so I doubt it will ever get to the point where we have high resolution screens that we can't use.



Maybe but that doesn't mean that a smaller screen with the same resolution still isn't highly usable. In fact, if the smaller screen has additional benefits (such as keeping the size of the device down or lower power consumption), then it make more sense to go with the smaller screen. Look, I get you like the larger screen but try to realize that there are a lot of other factors HTC has to consider before they can implement a screen like that.



I didn't say you never owned a "smaller screen device," I said I didn't know how you could pass judgement on a 2.8" VGA screen without having used it. If you have used a device with such a screen, please let me know which one(s). I'd definitely like to try and check one out in person to see just how usable the screen is.

E-TEN Glofiish X800 (toyed around with it for a few weeks, though I nver offically owned one

[whydidnt]

HTC isn't stupid. I suspect if using a 3.5" VGA screen in their devices was reasonably doable from a design, engineering, and financial standpoint, they would pursue it (and who knows, maybe they are and they're just not far enough along in the development process to release such a device).


Well, Apple has proven this is something that can be done from an engineering standpoint, so I think we can safely say this is simply a business decision. One that I think is fair for users to question, or to even ask for better from them.



I didn't say you never owned a "smaller screen device," I said I didn't know how you could pass judgement on a 2.8" VGA screen without having used it. If you have used a device with such a screen, please let me know which one(s). I'd definitely like to try and check one out in person to see just how usable the screen is.

I haven't used a 2.8" VGA device either, though Eten has some devices floating around with this screen today. However, my opinion based upon base WM VGA usage is that any added functionality provided by VGA on this small of a screen is outweighed by the additional battery drain and slower responsiveness we will see as a result of the CPU having to push around 4 times the pixels.

As it relates to this thread -- These devices would seem to be the best new offerings in the Windows Mobile world, but they seem to be flawed. Considering the size of the battery and the added overhead of the VGA screen (with questionable benefit) we really have to question how long these devices will run on a single charge. Combine this concern with the fact that I would really like to see something "more" -- bigger screen, more memory in my opinion, and I'm not super excited about these announcements.

[Marty1781]

Well, Apple has proven this is something that can be done from an engineering standpoint, so I think we can safely say this is simply a business decision. One that I think is fair for users to question, or to even ask for better from them.


I don't agree. Just because Apple has done it doesn't mean HTC now has the know how to accomplish the same thing. HTC could very well be developing a compact device with a 3.5" screen but its just not far along enough in the development process. Apple raised the bar with including a large screen on a compact device so once HTC saw it was possible, that's when HTC probably started their development process to also engineer such a device. Apple worked for several years on the iPhone, its going to take HTC some time to catch up in terms of the engineering the iPhone brought to the table (large screen on a compact device). Until then, we get 2.8" screens. I don't think it was "simply a business decision" on HTC's part to use a 2.8" VGA screen, I think they're just not ready from an engineering standpoint to produce a compact device with a 3.5" VGA screen. From the iPhone, they see what a hit large screens are so I think its obvious they would try and copy that IF they had the proper engineering in place (which I don't think they do ATM).


I haven't used a 2.8" VGA device either, though Eten has some devices floating around with this screen today. However, my opinion based upon base WM VGA usage is that any added functionality provided by VGA on this small of a screen is outweighed by the additional battery drain and slower responsiveness we will see as a result of the CPU having to push around 4 times the pixels.

As it relates to this thread -- These devices would seem to be the best new offerings in the Windows Mobile world, but they seem to be flawed. Considering the size of the battery and the added overhead of the VGA screen (with questionable benefit) we really have to question how long these devices will run on a single charge. Combine this concern with the fact that I would really like to see something "more" -- bigger screen, more memory in my opinion, and I'm not super excited about these announcements.


Like I said previously, HTC isn't stupid. Do you really think HTC is going to release a slow-responding, power-hungry device with a tiny battery that's only good for a few hours? Come on now, they're not idiots. I think you're jumping to too many conclusions here without having actually used the final version of the device (as no one here has). Until we actually get our hands on the final product, to dismiss the device based on rumored specs and how you think those specs will play out in terms of performance and battery life I think is a bit premature.

[whydidnt]

I don't agree. Just because Apple has done it doesn't mean HTC now has the know how to accomplish the same thing.

Oh please, HTC is the largest manufacturer of these types of devices in the world, they are or have been the OEM/ODM for companies such as HP, Dell, etc. I don't think you give them enough credit here, yet, your following statement confirms you don't think they are stupid.. so which is it, they aren't smart enough to this, or they aren't stupid?



Like I said previously, HTC isn't stupid. Do you really think HTC is going to release a slow-responding, power-hungry device with a tiny battery that's only good for a few hours? Come on now, they're not idiots.

Being stupid has nothing to do with it. The world is littered with "smart" companies that made bad decisions in the name of short term profits. Just because they aren't stupid doesn't mean they can't be wrong here. Ultimately the market will decide. In the mean time, since they are far and away the largest manufacturer of Windows Mobile devices, and they refuse to lead in this area, they are also holding back the platform and it's growth. Such is the risk Microsoft takes by providing a platform rather than a complete device.

[Marty1781]

Oh please, HTC is the largest manufacturer of these types of devices in the world, they are or have been the OEM/ODM for companies such as HP, Dell, etc. I don't think you give them enough credit here, yet, your following statement confirms you don't think they are stupid.. so which is it, they aren't smart enough to this, or they aren't stupid?


Just because a company isn't stupid doesn't mean they all of a sudden have the ability to engineer a device in a few months that took Apple years of R&D to produce.


Being stupid has nothing to do with it. The world is littered with "smart" companies that made bad decisions in the name of short term profits. Just because they aren't stupid doesn't mean they can't be wrong here. Ultimately the market will decide. In the mean time, since they are far and away the largest manufacturer of Windows Mobile devices, and they refuse to lead in this area, they are also holding back the platform and it's growth. Such is the risk Microsoft takes by providing a platform rather than a complete device.

You're right, not being stupid doesn't mean a company can't also be wrong. But do you honestly expect anyone to believe that HTC is so out of touch with the market that they would put out a slow-responding, power-hungry device that lasted only a few hours? All in hopes of short term profits (which would likely be non-existant if the device is as bad as you say it will be)? What's next, are you going to tell me the sky is falling too!?

[azhiker]

If Dell could use a 3.7 inch vga screen in its X50-X51 PPC, and I think HTC made it for Dell, why can't they use that same screen in a phone version? The HP PPC had a 4" screen. such screen were produced and were excellent. Battery drain never seemed to be a problem for me. If my X50V had the possibility of taking a sim card, I would do it in a second because I still feel it is a great product. While is uses the older version of Winsdows Mobile is till functions better and looks better than most of the windows mobile products out there now. But alas Dell stopped making them. But my point is, that screen was perfect, so why no phones with this same screen?