A Stranger in a Strange Land: A Windows Mobile Guy Meets iPhone

[Rocco Augusto]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://mobilitysite.com/2008/04/a-stranger-in-a-strange-land-a-windows-mobile-guy-meets-iphone/' target='_blank'>http://mobilitysite.com/2008/04/a-s...y-meets-iphone/</a><br /><br /></div><em>&quot;My brother, the cinematographer, is a MAC kinda guy. So, naturally he packs an iPhone of which he is very proud. While visiting me last week he was showing off the virtues of his iPhone with a bit of a smug air and a tinge of superiority. He quickly established that the iPhone makes phone calls, surfs the Web, does email and SMS, takes pictures (but has no flash), and it does it all on a really cool, high-resolution, finger-friendly touch screen...&quot;<br /><br /></em><img border="0" src="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com/resizer/thumbs/size/500/spt/auto/1207936846.usr8.jpg" alt="" /><br /><br />Over at Mobility Site, Tim Hillebrand has brought us one of the most amusing articles I have read this week. I was hoping to post this earlier in the week, but with <a href="http://smartphonethoughts.com/news/show/88473/we-re-back-and-here-s-our-tale-of-woe.html">our server woes</a> I decided to push this back to Friday to give you guys and gals a good chuckle before the weekend. Tim goes through the list of all of Apple's good qualities that was packed into their little device that could and than in classic 1980's buddy comedy fashion the article takes a turn for the comical going through everything you would think this fancy high end device should/would include in its repertoire list but doesn't. It just goes to show us that Apple's handset has as many growing pains to conquer as Microsoft's cellular device offerings and also that Tim's brother is a good sport for letting him write this article about him. ;)

[RogueSpear]

There are indeed a couple of things missing from my iPhone that I think should be there, most notably stereo Bluetooth on a device where one of the primary functions is to listen to music. God that is aggravating. Anyway, the stereo Bluetooth output I've heard from several WM devices is so bad, that I pretty much would rather not have it than have it so half baked.

The other thing that I missed (at first) is the inability to tether my laptop over Bluetooth. I say at first because I find that web browsing on the iPhone is more than sufficient for me. I don't know how many Google freaks there are here, what with Exchange seeming to rule the WM world, but if you're a Gmail, Google Calendar, and Google Reader user, the iPhone is the answer to your dreams.

The iPhone may not have it all, but it has what counts most - it works and it works well. Something that I can hardly say about WM. Which is why after over 7 years of putting up with the same old uninspired garbage I jumped ship. I'm not any kind of Apple fanboy, believe me. iTunes is one of the most cruel abominations ever unleashed. Spyware is written better than iTunes. But as bad as iTunes is, I still think it's light years ahead of ActiveSync.

While my opinion is just that, I hardly think I'm alone. You can try to rationalize all you want how WM has this or that, but really, what will that do for you?

[Rocco Augusto]

You can try to rationalize all you want how WM has this or that, but really, what will that do for you?

Well for me, Windows Mobile does this or that. ;) :p

I agree with most of what you said but at the end of the day, beauty is still in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I need all of those things that were discussed in Tim's article and while the iPhone is pretty, as far as smartphones go, it is really lacking. Windows Mobile does have it's fair share of short comings but before the Apple iPhone was released - not even a year ago - a large majority of these short comings were not present in a lot of individuals minds. The only reason why a lot of people are so fed up with Windows Mobile is because we now know without a shadow of a doubt that it can be better than it is at the moment and I have full faith in Microsoft that they will deliver a much better user experience in the future.

Though how quickly they deliver this seems to be the real question here. :confused:

As for the stereo Bluetooth, I feel your pain. I have no idea how I would survive without the technology... I have no idea how I survived before the technology! Though I would like to point out that listening to music over BT on my Samsung Blackjack was never a horrible experience. In fact it worked beautifully. I can only speak on behalf of the Blackjack though since that is the only handset I used Stereo BT with regularly.

[rookcnu]

My Bluetooth works flawlessly on a two year old Cingular 8125 using Jabra BT620s for headphones (music)/headset (voice calls).

I have absolutely zero complaint in this department.

[Phronetix]

I liked this article. I took it tongue in cheek, because it reminded me of how I felt as a Palm user talking about WM about four years ago.

Then I got my MDA vario. And that made all my previous critiques as a Palm user evaporate.

Well, the iPhone is that much a jump from WM in my view. But not for everyone. Ask my Palm Treo using wife. She is still happy. :-)

With respect to using the keyboard on my iPhone, I take exception to the writer's views, but only mildly. The keyboard takes getting used to, and I have found it is important to learn a new skillset to become accurate. My accuracy now is such that I can chat over IM without my friends realizing I am not using a keyboard. The auto-correct features are worth trusting for the most part. And once you learn where the big finger pads need to land, you can become very accurate. Also, when entering in passwords and the like, you can touch and hold and hover over the screen until the proper character appears and not until you let go will it be recorded.

The iPhone is not perfect, but it is the best PDA/handset OS I have ever used.

So far. :-)

[paris18m]

My experience with the iphone!

For the record, I have had a pocket pc since the early compaq devices that came in both colour and gray scale models. even since i do carry one with me and like 3 years ago when the jam came out i merged my phone and my pocket pc.
Currently i am using an HTC cruise however i bought the 16gb iPhone for my girlfriend to use and for me to experiment with!

Comments about the article

a. you can’t compare a device that has GPS with a device that does not have GPS and say its crap coz it does not have GPS. The HTC touch does not have GPS nor does it have 3G but the HTC Cruize does, well does that make the touch crap? No! stop bugging the Iphone for not having GPS and for a start sit back and realize what apple managed to do with the iPhone, and how many years Microsoft has been sleeping in the windows mobile front.

b. card slot? Who needs one when you have 16gb onboard? Honestly 2gb is as much as I ever had on my HTC Cruize but MS is not helping me utilize that. On the iPhone it was a breeze to sync, my pictures and music I needed on the iPhone, and no I am not an iTunes user but it did not take me more than 5 minutes to get going. I know, I know you can do the same thing with media player, yet again I haven’t! don’t know if that says something!

c. I am still waiting for a decent windows mobile with a VGA screen since I had my first pocket pc with VGA screen over 3 years ago. The iPhone? Does that and its freaking thin, it’s not a brick! Why why why WM and VGA is not popular? Who’s fault is it? MS or the OEMS


d.The interface of the device is simply how it should be. On WM on the other hand, it’s simply pathetic to scroll the list of applications which is merely 2 pages and having to wait for the icons to refresh, or seeing the screen refresh itself block by block in certain cases. Iphone, not only is fast but it’s smooth and stylish as well.

e. applications on the Iphone is the thing that made me discus WM even more. There is a little program called Cydia and installer that allows you to browse through a list of application, read a description about them and install them. Yes in just the first day I had more than 30 games and apps on the iPhone. Do you know how much time it takes to browse on the pc find an application, download it and install it on a WM device? A lot more time! Yes I know you can download a cab over the internet and install it right away, however it’s not the same. If you sit back and thing about the possibilities here that applce created you will be blown away. This is how applications should be brought to the WM device and not relying thought pocketgear or handango or whatever application store websites are on the internet. Don’t criticize the device since it does not have many apps developed! The SDK was barely released and the Iphone has not been in the market for even a year! If you realize how the Iphone is going to deliver applications to the Iphone you will be blown away, something good for the developers and consumers! Oh! And forgot to mentions that Cydia and istaller not only help you keep you device filled with applications but they do help you keep them up to date as well!!

f. iPhone is a truly internet connected device, WM has more features in terms on connectivity options but the iPhone does it right. Internet browsing and stuff is what I am mostly doing with the iPhone which is superb. Oh and it does not even have 3g (yet) imagine! Om my PPC, internet browsing and stuff is simply a not!

g. oh and for some serious computing on the Iphone i suggest you download cydia and installer, you will be blown away with the tools you can install. Hey you can surely get apps and shh to a pocket pc if you like but I never did that. With the iPhone i already did that, having my gl playing Sudoku on the Iphone and me changing things on the Iphone for her via ssh!
Oh and wait, all those tools that you can install on your iPhone so far, you are not supposed to yet! Imagine what will happen once your applications will be officially supported and delivered trough apple application store! In less than 2 months now.

h. Do not harass the Iphone, study it and realize what could have been achieved on the Windows Mobile front if Microsoft was not sleeping the past few years!!!

It is very sad to realize how slow MS has been in the Windows Mobile scene and how little things have been done for the past few years.

[virain]

I do understand the enthusiasm of iPhone crowd, and those who switched to it from windows mobile. I did try it, it is cute, well more something new, that we never had before. But that's where it ends. No memory card BIG minus, I don't care about all those 16G onboard memory. With Memcard I can take files saved on it and in a matter of seconds work with them on my laptop. just insert the card. No GPS, no 3G? O'K let's let it go. BTW looked at the programs offered for iPhone, they either silly games or something that are on the level of a teenager, nothing that is useful and needed for me. And the article is one hundred percent correct, iPhone is a toy, media player with phone functions. And BTW no handwriting recognition either, You can not draw on that cute screen! Interestingly enough, iPhone people iFonnies so to say, like to compare advantages of iPhone to WM and point its pluses, but when WM users start showing WM device advantages - it's NOT FAIR! STOP IT! Well GPS and 3G, choice of connection options and what you can do with it is all part of WM platform, so until iPhone grow up to be as versatile as WM you are right we shouldn't compare those two platform. I mean it just like compare ability of grown up man to ability of little kid to solve real life "grown up" so to speak problems.
Cheers.

[peterf]

Why do these iPhone switchers who now hate windows mobile even still visit this site? It's always the same thing, they come on here and say in the comments on how great the iPhone is.

[rookcnu]

You can't argue the ease of use of the iPhone. But some of us (me included) just like to tinker with our toys.

I find that I have way more ability to tinker with WM devices and I enjoy that.

[BBF]

Why do these iPhone switchers who now hate windows mobile even still visit this site? It's always the same thing, they come on here and say in the comments on how great the iPhone is.

They're entitled to their opinion as you are to yours.

I don't own an iPhone, only WM phones/pda's and I can see that the iPhone is *much* more user friendly than any WM phone. That matters to A LOT of people.

Who says that the iPhone 2 won't add many more corporate type features that WM phones have. Apple *did* license activesync from MS didn't they? I'm no Apple fan, but I expect the next version of the iPhone to add a lot of the features that used to only come on the high-end WM professional phones.

[cuteseal]

Great article, and it does highlight the differences and shortcomings between the two platforms. In my experience, Apple tends to focus on the UI aspect (think iPods) and does it well, and also tends to oversimplify all the functionality so that even little kids and grandmas can use them. The drawback to this of course, is that they usually force you to do things in a certain way.


Its competitors on the other hand, try to compete on features and they do that magnificently (again, mp3 players, creative, are great examples) but sometimes the end result is an inconsistent, overcomplicated, sometimes confusing interface.

To each his own though - I've got a feeling that road warrior types will want to gravitate towards the Windows Mobile/Palm platforms...

[stevew]

Why do these iPhone switchers who now hate windows mobile even still visit this site? It's always the same thing, they come on here and say in the comments on how great the iPhone is.

Maybe it's because we're asked for our opinion. This is a forum isn't it? I don't hate WM and MS at all. Disappointed yes. Disappointed enough that I'm ready to move on. I just got bored with it as many others have. We all like innovation with our devices and WM has not been giving us that.

And why do I keep coming back to this site? Because I love it simple as that.

[J4yDubs]

a. you can’t compare a device that has GPS with a device that does not have GPS and say its crap coz it does not have GPS. The HTC touch does not have GPS nor does it have 3G but the HTC Cruize does, well does that make the touch crap? No! stop bugging the Iphone for not having GPS and for a start sit back and realize what apple managed to do with the iPhone, and how many years Microsoft has been sleeping in the windows mobile front.

The difference is that you can add GPS to the HTC Touch. Try adding it to the iPhone...


b. card slot? Who needs one when you have 16gb onboard? Honestly 2gb is as much as I ever had on my HTC Cruize but MS is not helping me utilize that. On the iPhone it was a breeze to sync, my pictures and music I needed on the iPhone, and no I am not an iTunes user but it did not take me more than 5 minutes to get going. I know, I know you can do the same thing with media player, yet again I haven’t! don’t know if that says something!

You used iTunes because you had to. You didn't have to use Media Player, so you didn't. So yeah, you did kinda say something...That you were forced to use iTunes... :)

As for expandabilty, I can't believe someone would argue against it. Do you not think it would be better to have a SD slot on the iPhone? 16GB won't hold my music collection, much less my video collection.


c. I am still waiting for a decent windows mobile with a VGA screen since I had my first pocket pc with VGA screen over 3 years ago. The iPhone? Does that and its freaking thin, it’s not a brick! Why why why WM and VGA is not popular? Who’s fault is it? MS or the OEMS

Windows Mobile has supported VGA for a while now. Can't fault them.


d.The interface of the device is simply how it should be. On WM on the other hand, it’s simply pathetic to scroll the list of applications which is merely 2 pages and having to wait for the icons to refresh, or seeing the screen refresh itself block by block in certain cases. Iphone, not only is fast but it’s smooth and stylish as well.

While I don't have the problems you describe with WM (I think there's something wrong with the device you used), the iPhone is the clear winner regarding the interface.


e. applications on the Iphone is the thing that made me discus WM even more. There is a little program called Cydia and installer that allows you to browse through a list of application, read a description about them and install them. Yes in just the first day I had more than 30 games and apps on the iPhone.

Don't you have to void your warranty to do that? Isn't it kinda sad to have to rely on the hacker community to do something that should have been included from day 1 (like WM)?


The SDK was barely released and the Iphone has not been in the market for even a year! If you realize how the Iphone is going to deliver applications to the Iphone you will be blown away, something good for the developers and consumers!

I'm not impressed with some of the artificial limits the iPhone SDK enforces. I predict that jailbreaking will continue to be popular. I just wonder if Sling Media will find a legal way around the network throttling and bring a Sling client to the iPhone. It really is a killer app that just begs to be on the iPhone (once it has 3G that is).


Oh and wait, all those tools that you can install on your iPhone so far, you are not supposed to yet! Imagine what will happen once your applications will be officially supported and delivered trough apple application store! In less than 2 months now.

If you're going to bring up available apps, then WM beats the iPhone easily. As for the future, we'll just have to see how that pans out.


h. Do not harass the Iphone, study it and realize what could have been achieved on the Windows Mobile front if Microsoft was not sleeping the past few years!!!

The iPhone is a good device. The UI is killer. It's just a shame its been so neutered. It could be so much more.

John

[paris18m]

The iPhone is a good device. The UI is killer. It's just a shame its been so neutered. It could be so much more.

***long quote trimmed by mod JD***

:) John i dont wanna start a flame war

The point here is :
do you know what the iphone really is?
It is proof that WE Windows Mobile users are fanatical about it and won’t open our eyes to realize how asleep MS has been on this front. The iPhone is proof of possibilities with these smart phones today, not tomorrow!

no gps and not 3g that people keep saying won’t be there for long! Do you think apple will have difficulties adding those features? Stay tuned for the iPhone 2.0 release in less than 60 days and see what happens! 3g is sure, donno about gps.

i have had storage cards on all my pocket pcs fso far. fro CF to SD to Mini SD to micro SD etc. Evry single time i needed to grab something off that card i either did not have a card reader with me or the person i wanted to give some data has a completely different card slot. so what gives the card slot? Nothing to me really! I am better off carrying a usb cable with me instead or a card reader! Oh and did you try to transfer 2gb to a WM device via activesync? When it’s done let me know! with iphone? fast! But yet again maybe that’s why you do need a memory card on you device.

I can easily bring back my iphone to a factory rom and not warranty void! Hell ALL my HTC devices 4 of them till now are jail broken as well, have you ever heard about cooked roms? It’s a hacked device ROM fully customized and allow you to run unsigned code just like the jail broken iPhone does.

Applications on the iphone need time, I can see more possibilities there thought! I hope MS and WM developers see that and try to keep ahead. hell MS is going to br developing applications for the iphone as well, do you know how many billions ms is making from mac office?

To cat the story short and the flame wars down.
The iPhone is VERY important for MS and WM users to wake up.
Please sit back and think what you said, "The iPhone is a good device. The UI is killer. It's just a shame its been so neutered. It could be so much more.:
Do you know how much iPhone has become the past year? with no gps! with no 3g! with no official native applications! with no official mms support! with no memory card! with no replaceble battery!

yes i do know all these iPhone limitations and every single iPhone user knows them! Whats important here to realize is how big iPhone has become the last year even thought having those limitations! do you think apple is not capable of adding any of the above features? nope. the real question is thought will MS wake up and keep WM moving?

[virain]

yes i do know all these iPhone limitations and every single iPhone user knows them!

***long quote trimmed by mod JD***

Funny it is iPhone users who sounds fanaticle, just try to read your own posts! Do you have a sanctuary where you keep your iPhone and pray to it?
I did have iPhone, it was fun on a first day, kinda boring on a second (there's nothing to do with that thing, play with interface, I still don't understand a point behind multitouch on such small device. I mean I use my phone with one hand while driving, or writing, or holding a brief case. To peach this tiny screen with to fingers is kind of uncomfortable, let's say.) Yeh, you serf web, but than again sng WiFi, on EDGE is not so good. But that's about it. Listening to music? I do it while work out, and my hands are busy to with the device. MS voice command works very well here. So to make long story short I gave it as a present to teenage doughter of my girlfriend. I mean that's who this device suite the best. And all that ranting about memory cards and USB cables, BTW did you noticed iPhone has a proprietary connection. I mean Blackberry, most WM, even Motorola Razr use mini USB. And did you try to transfer files without cables, Bluetooth works well and most modern laptops and even desktops have it, much yesier then carrying cables.
As far as software, It seems all the latest news about iPhone is the new Jailbreak program. It became some kind of sport. Who makes the meanest. No word on productivity, such as spread sheets, word doc, etc.
iPhone 2? Don't get you hopes too high, so disappointment won't be too deep. Soft Beta 2 is available from apple website, all it does adds MS Exchange, Cisco VPN client and Apple upcoming soft store (not there yet)
There more needs to be done to it, just read this link - http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=printArticleBasic&articleId=9037958
And here things that iPhone users would like to have - http://iphonewishlist.net/
Quiet a list ah? BTW WM offers most of it, and did it for years.
And at last but not list like someone before me noticed here, What do such die hard iPhone fans do on WM blogs? My guess and experience suggest there's nothing much to do with iPhone so it leaves plenty of time to roam the web looking for someone who is not really happy with his or her handheld device, after all misery loves company. I switch from SE Symbian P900 to WM CE at that time few years ago, And as far as stability and interface, SE was way ahead of my iPaq 6315 I think (dont remember the number, it was T-Mo branded) but I was taken by productivity, and how much I can achieve with this device (it was a terrible hardware btw) so I've never wander to Symbian blogs again. I can't say it about iPhone, and that's may be another reason iPhonnies are here.
And another thing, not only iPhone 2 coming up, WM 6.! is on the way as well. So let's see then.
Cheers

[Russ Smith]

People usually look at feature by feature comparisons and argue "well I don't really need that." I think that misses the point. Feature by feature comparisons are usually pretty useful for determining how flexible a device really is. WM's strength has always been in flexibility. Apple's strength comes from it's control of the hardware and software. It's stable, but I have to wait for Apple to add the functionality I already have (and use all the time) in WM. What if Apple decides "people don't really need that." (It wouldn't be the first time.)

I take issue most with the response that "with 8GB on-board, who needs a card slot?" My issue goes back to flexibility. With card slots, I can easily vary the data that I'm carrying around with me to suit the situation. In family events, I can carry around all the latest photos. In business events I can carry around all the latest tables and data-sets. With the swap of a card, I've got what I need, customized to where and what I'm doing or, with a big enough card, I can have it all.

I think the most telling bit of the article was when he was going though all those iPhone apps and finding mostly web-based apps, requiring net-access in order to use. I had a phone that had "built-in" GPS a while back. I had to use a subscription application to actually use it. That's great for the service provider; not so great for me.

It is true that a lot of a person's choice in devices is personal and based on their own set of criteria which may not be very similar at all to someone else's. That said, I think we still need to occasionally do a "reality check" and look at what a device is actually capable of.

[paris18m]

For one last time if you ever read my post virain. I AM a WM user, for very long time, and now experimenting with my fiancées iPhone making un-biased judgements since i kind of both owning and not owning one! :) My point was to highlight the possibilities apple iPhone has brought to the market and the fact that MS has been asleep. If none of you other WM users realize that, then for sure MS will keep sleeping and giving you practically the same device slightly refreshed without moving their asses to innovate.

[J4yDubs]

:) John i dont wanna start a flame war

It's possible to have a discussion without a flame war. No need to cut it short, just be nice...


The point here is :
do you know what the iphone really is?
It is proof that WE Windows Mobile users are fanatical about it and won’t open our eyes to realize how asleep MS has been on this front. The iPhone is proof of possibilities with these smart phones today, not tomorrow!

Yes. I know what the iPhone current is. I also know what it could be. The same thing you're saying about WM users can be said of iPhone users. Open your eyes and look at how limited you are, for no good reason...


card reader! Oh and did you try to transfer 2gb to a WM device via activesync? When it’s done let me know! with iphone? fast! But yet again maybe that’s why you do need a memory card on you device.

I only use Activesync to sync with my work Exchange account. Everything else is done by removing the card or direct transfer.


devices 4 of them till now are jail broken as well, have you ever heard about cooked roms? It’s a hacked device ROM fully customized and allow you to run unsigned code just like the jail broken iPhone does.

I've heard of and played with hacked ROM's, but I don't use them. Don't have a need to. I can do everything, even run unsigned apps, without hacking the ROM.


Applications on the iphone need time, I can see more possibilities there thought! I hope MS and WM developers see that and try to keep ahead. hell MS is going to br developing applications for the iphone as well, do you know how many billions ms is making from mac office?

Apple needs to stop forcing a single legit options. Don't cripple the SDK and allow other deployment options. As a developer, why should I have to pay $99 to distribute my free applications?


Do you know how much iPhone has become the past year? with no gps! with no 3g! with no official native applications! with no official mms support! with no memory card! with no replaceble battery!

It's almost like you're arguing that not having those things (and others) is a good thing. Thing of how much better the device would be if it did have those things! What happens when WM has a slick UI (v7?)? It'll still have all the advantages it has today, plus be on par with the UI. Then what will be the iPhone advantage?

John

[jngold_me]

It's almost like you're arguing that not having those things (and others) is a good thing. Thing of how much better the device would be if it did have those things! What happens when WM has a slick UI (v7?)? It'll still have all the advantages it has today, plus be on par with the UI. Then what will be the iPhone advantage?


First, that's assuming Apple will stand still. It's been said over and over from tech bloggers and journalists alike that others are chasing what the iPhone offers now. Remember, WM devices are several iterations old while the iPhone is still relatively a young pup.

Plus, to that thought, by the time WM shows and gets Photon (WM7) out to the public, 3rd party applications will be available for the iPhone. Some very big mobile development houses are jumping at the bit to get software out for the iPhone.

Second, given the history of M$, they have shown any ability to create to truly innovate and provide a mobile OS that is fun to use. What good is a killer UI if the device lags? What good is a killer UI if a spinning color globe pops up while you're waiting for your application to load? What good is a killer UI if transferring data to/from your PC is a heart ache?

[Jason Dunn]

Hey guys, great conversation here (thanks for keeping the debate more or less civil ;)) but please do me a favour and don't quote the entire message - please trim your quotes. Especially on a mobile browser, having to scroll through a bunch of messages that you've already read is a hassle. Thanks!

[stevew]

What if Apple decides "people don't really need that." (It wouldn't be the first time.)



Microsoft does the same thing. Remember when we could sync over WiFi?:)

[virain]

First, that's assuming Apple will stand still...
And that's assuming that MS will sit still. WM6.1 are on the way. And talk of all that lagging while running apps? You dont know how iPhone will handle similar apps.
QUOTE=paris18m;682409] My point was to highlight the possibilities apple iPhone has brought to the market and the fact that MS has been asleep. [/QUOTE]
What possibilities? A touch screen? It's been here for a while. To make it more finger friendly? Talks about it were here even before iPhone. BTW how good is a touch screen if you can't take full advantage of it? with iPhone you can't use Stylus, that' means no inking, no drawing, etc.. Better browser? Again, 3rd Party better than PIE browsers were available before iPhone. I mean SE P900 had better browser than PIE 3-4 years ago. Multi touch? I don't see the reason to have it on such a small device that would be used mostly with one hand for convenience, except that it is fun.
The truth is iPhone didn't bring anything new to the market, it just capitalized on existing technology that was already available to the public. And MS was not in a sleep over the years it added plenty of useful things to WM. As far as for interface concern, if you go while back, to the beginning of Win. CE, you'll see that philosophy behind it is "If you know how to use your PC you won't need to learn how to use Win CE, they have similar interface" that was 1st selling point of MS that helped to win customers over Palm. So the thing is " if it works, don't fix it" And it worked well, with corporate customers, that's what MS was shooting for from the beginning.
And another catch phrase for iPhone: "It just works!" Ahr...? What exactly does it do? Not much - Plays music, serf web, and makes calls. Even dumb phones do all of that this days.
More stable, you don't have to reset it too often? Again, it doesn't do much at this time so don't really uses its resources. My girlfriend has Motorola RAZR for few years already, NEVER had to reset it! Want to compare it to WM or iPhone? I doubt it.
So the buttom line, it is unfair to compare WM to iPhone as they are different animals of the same family, You wouldn't try to compare house cat to tiger or a lion , and argue which one is better, but they are all cats (with different functions of course) ;)

[jngold_me]

And that's assuming that MS will sit still. WM6.1 are on the way.

You are joking, yes? 6.1's major changes are for the smartphone platform, and those only deal with a "more decent" today screen. Everything else as far as the consumer is concerned is a non-issue. Threaded SMS you say? WM Treo's have had that for years already.

with iPhone you can't use Stylus, that' means no inking, no drawing, etc.

Nobody really wants to use a stylus on a mobile phone. Nokia are the best selling smartphones on the planet and they don't even have touch screens. Stylus is passe, so "early century". This is a non issue.


As far as for interface concern, if you go while back, to the beginning of Win. CE, you'll see that philosophy behind it is "If you know how to use your PC you won't need to learn how to use Win CE, they have similar interface" that was 1st selling point of MS that helped to win customers over Palm. So the thing is " if it works, don't fix it" And it worked well, with corporate customers, that's what MS was shooting for from the beginning.


Well we all know that methodology is backfiring now. That may have worked for WinCE way back when but is not applicable now. A mobile phone is not a desktop nor should it act like one. The consumers have spoken and they don't want a desktop on a mobile phone. They want something easy to use, they don't want to have to take out a stylus, and they want it responsive and reliable.


And another catch phrase for iPhone: "It just works!" Ahr...? What exactly does it do? Not much - Plays music, serf web, and makes calls.

Yes, you hit the nail on the head. The things the iPhone does, it does exceptionally well. As a matter of fact, the few things the iPhone does, is extremely better than what WM provides. Like I have said in my 8 years of using WM is that WM is the "jack of all trades, master of none". Plus, that's what Apple intended the 1st gen iPhone to do. They have a roadmap for the Iphone and the next gen will make it more appealing to the corporate crowd. Not too bad for a device that's been out for how long?


More stable, you don't have to reset it too often? Again, it doesn't do much at this time so don't really uses its resources. My girlfriend has Motorola RAZR for few years already, NEVER had to reset it! Want to compare it to WM or iPhone? I doubt it.

Silly comparison. The iPhone runs a mobile version of the MacOS and runs apps and does things that the Razr can't even dream of doing.


So the buttom line, it is unfair to compare WM to iPhone as they are different animals of the same family, You wouldn't try to compare house cat to tiger or a lion , and argue which one is better, but they are all cats (with different functions of course) ;)

The comparison here is not really a feature-by-feature of what both platforms can do. The fact is Apple has risen the bar for ease-of-use, and brought an excitement to the mobile space that apparently M$ could never bring.

[Russ Smith]

Just an observation:
Any sentence starting with "Nobody wants" or "Everybody wants" is 99.934% of the time wrong.


Microsoft does the same thing. Remember when we could sync over WiFi?:)
True, Microsoft does the same thing, but they don't do it as routinely and consistently as Apple does. I'm currently running OSX on one of my machines. There's a lot to like, but I'm already getting tired of Apple's "the user is an idiot" approach.

[jngold_me]

Just an observation:
Any sentence starting with "Nobody wants" or "Everybody wants" is 99.934% of the time wrong.

Yes indeed, you are correct. The sentence should have started.. "The great majority of smartphone buyers......as evidenced by current market and interface design trends."

[Rocco Augusto]

Maybe it's because we're asked for our opinion. This is a forum isn't it? I don't hate WM and MS at all. Disappointed yes. Disappointed enough that I'm ready to move on. I just got bored with it as many others have. We all like innovation with our devices and WM has not been giving us that.

And why do I keep coming back to this site? Because I love it simple as that.

This is true, we encourage everyone to give their opinions. :)

[Rocco Augusto]

Nobody really wants to use a stylus on a mobile phone. Nokia are the best selling smartphones on the planet and they don't even have touch screens. Stylus is passe, so "early century". This is a non issue.

I want to use a stylus with touch based devices. I have an unnatural hatred for smude marks, without a stylus I would just get to annoyed to use the device.


...A mobile phone is not a desktop nor should it act like one. The consumers have spoken and they don't want a desktop on a mobile phone. They want something easy to use, they don't want to have to take out a stylus, and they want it responsive and reliable.

I would beg to differ, the Apple iPhone delivers the most desktop like experience of any cellular device out there! One of the main selling features of the device is that it offers a desktop-like Web browsing experience.

Every iPhone user I know has told me one of their favorite uses of the iPhone is to pull it out while watching TV to check IMDB for some information or look up some other information on the Internet. This was something that less than a year ago most people would have had to get up and go to their laptop or desktop to accomplish since their handsets wouldn't have given them that true desktop-like experience.

Consumers do want something that is easy to use but most importantly I feel what consumers really want is convergence. They want that mobile desktop solution and they also want convenience, two things the iPhone delivers in spades (minus all that stuff its missing :confused:;))

[jngold_me]

I would beg to differ, the Apple iPhone delivers the most desktop like experience of any cellular device out there! One of the main selling features of the device is that it offers a desktop-like Web browsing experience.


You misunderstood my intent. The point is the windows-like metaphor and design interface is not optimal for today's converged devices. WM start menu, things buried deep within menus and submenus, Yes, I agree the "experience" should be there, but the way you interact with a mobile device should not attempt to mimic the desktop, which was the original premise of the "Pocket PC".

That being said, the today screen is incredibly useful, productive and flexible part of the WM interface. It's one of the reasons why I didn't jump ship to the s60 platform when shopping for a device to replace my Treo 750.

[J4yDubs]

First, that's assuming Apple will stand still. It's been said over and over from tech bloggers and journalists alike that others are chasing what the iPhone offers now. Remember, WM devices are several iterations old while the iPhone is still relatively a young pup.

WM is chasing the iPhone UI. That I'll agree with, but that's really it. The iPhone doesn't do anything else that hasn't been done for a while now.

If you're banking on the SDK to bring a lot of new features and functionality to the iPhone, I think you're in for a surprise. Read up on the SDK's imposed limitations. Some of them I can understand, but not allowing 3rd party programs to run in the background (no multi-tasking)? Come on. No watcher programs, no IM clients, no alarm programs, no "wait for activity" programs. etc... Get a phone call and your running program needs to shut down (hopefully saving state). Then you have to run it again after the call. Way to cripple a device with a lot of potential.

I want to like the iPhone, but the limitations are frustrating.

John

[J4yDubs]

Microsoft does the same thing. Remember when we could sync over WiFi?:)
That one pissed me off (I was a WM developer at the time), but the reason it was taken away was because of the huge security hole it introduced. Being that the biggest push, especially at that time, was into corporate, they had to remove the functionality (or risk losing corporate customers).

John

[supreme_one3]

I haven't read all the posts, but has anyone mentioned the customizing ability wm has over the iphone. That's the one thing that made me but a wm device over the iphone. With things like icon skins for pocket plus 4 and themes for wisbar 3 I can make my device unique. The iphone can get better hardware and software, but I don't think it will ever get more customizable than wm devices. Apple doesn't seem to like users to customize their products much. That I think will be the most distiguishing figure. A ready out of the box, easy to use device or a diffcult to figure out one that takes time to tinker with, but can be made so there is no other like it in the world.

[virain]

You are joking, yes? 6.1's major changes are for the smartphone platform, and those only deal with a "more decent" today screen. Everything else as far as the consumer is concerned is a non-issue. Threaded SMS you say? WM Treo's have had that for years already.
No I am not, It is an update after all. Apple did so far 3 or 4 updates for iPhone and nothing changed! Keep your hopes for 2.0, but not too high.




Nobody really wants to use a stylus on a mobile phone. Nokia are the best selling smartphones on the planet and they don't even have touch screens. Stylus is passe, so "early century". This is a non issue.
Well, I guess me, author of the article that started this tread, other users of this blog and others who USE stylus for more than just simple scrolling or pecking at the letters of virtual keyboard are nobodies :( Thanks[/QUOTE]



Well we all know that methodology is backfiring now. That may have worked for WinCE way back when but is not applicable now. A mobile phone is not a desktop nor should it act like one. The consumers have spoken and they don't want a desktop on a mobile phone. They want something easy to use, they don't want to have to take out a stylus, and they want it responsive and reliable.
I am sorry but who did authorize you to speak for all the consumers? Speak for yourself. And if people as you said didn't want to have desktop on mobile phone there wouldn't be a market for smartphones at all. We all be happy with "simple responsive and reliable dumb phones" But the truth is we want to be productive on the run, we want work with spread sheets, word doc's and other apps or simply play games on a train, taxi or a plain and not dragging heavy laptop all over.



Yes, you hit the nail on the head. The things the iPhone does, it does exceptionally well. As a matter of fact, the few things the iPhone does, is extremely better than what WM provides. Like I have said in my 8 years of using WM is that WM is the "jack of all trades, master of none". Plus, that's what Apple intended the 1st gen iPhone to do. They have a roadmap for the Iphone and the next gen will make it more appealing to the corporate crowd. Not too bad for a device that's been out for how long?
If you start quoting quote the full sentence, don't just pick words that serve your purpose. My point was that iPhone doesn't do much more than a latest so called dumb phones. And stop comparing todays day with the future, Roadmap? it may happens like it is written now it may be changed it may be canceled. Do you have a crystal ball infront of you? Neither do I.



Silly comparison. The iPhone runs a mobile version of the MacOS and runs apps and does things that the Razr can't even dream of doing.
Razr is 4-5 years old technology. That's 28-35 dog years, a lifetime in fast pace techno industry. ;) You can't teach an old dog new tricks, but you can make it to do things for you Check here: http://phone.mobile9.com/motorola/razr-v3/ and sorry to say productivity soft for razr is better than currently available for iPhone.



The comparison here is not really a feature-by-feature of what both platforms can do. The fact is Apple has risen the bar for ease-of-use, and brought an excitement to the mobile space that apparently M$ could never bring.
That is your opinion. IMHO, what Apple did, took touch screen technology from narrow circle of speaking MS terminology "Professionals" to a main stream made it more available and user friendly. Will it take off? Time will tell. In my opinion, in smartphone market it will be limited, it has better chances with MID/UMPC devices.

[virain]

Yes indeed, you are correct. The sentence should have started.. "The great majority of smartphone buyers......as evidenced by current market and interface design trends."
I will continue it for you: Want to have hard buttons, physical keyboard and really don't care about touch screen. Read here: http://www.goodhousekeeping.com/home/products/qwerty-keyboard-cell-phones-3
This is publisher that caters to house wifes, regular folks, not hi tech geeks.
In AT&T product line #1 Motorala Moto Q 9h Global WM BTW, #2 Crackberry, and iPhone is #3 coinsedently followed by yet another WM device Pantech duo. All of them except iPhone don't have touch screen.
IMHO, because they have hard buttons and physical keyboard. It is just more practical. If you involved in activity where you hands are wet or dirty, working with paint, oil, grease, cooking, swimming in your jacuzzi, and all the sudden get this important call, last thing you wanna do is to leave that dirty, ugly, and maybe permanent spot on your Precious Screen.
On a lighter note: Imagine walking let's say in Manhattan NY, and all the sudden you have an emergency. That humburger you've ate earlier looking for the way out, URGENT! Anywhere you go, bathroom is for customers only! So you negotiate $5 cap of coffee for an opportunity to use it in some obscure coffee shop. And restrooms there are not always neat and clean, believe me. So you do you thing, Darn! not much toilet paper left, so you use what is available, then try to wash your hands, sink is "under construction" No luck with washing hands. And now you need to make important call to your boss, wife, client. so you scroll with you finger contacts to find needed number dial it and press you touch screen firmly against your ear/cheek! Just remember where was that finger, before you slide it all over that screen to dial the number and what residue the screen might have on it. Just a joke of course.
Cheers.

[JNGold]

I am sorry but who did authorize you to speak for all the consumers? Speak for yourself. And if people as you said didn't want to have desktop on mobile phone there wouldn't be a market for smartphones at all. We all be happy with "simple responsive and reliable dumb phones" But the truth is we want to be productive on the run, we want work with spread sheets, word doc's and other apps or simply play games on a train, taxi or a plain and not dragging heavy laptop all over.Once again I will explain....the Windows Mobile operating system is 7+ years old and was designed for a slab-type PDA to be used with a stylus. Microsoft has carried that mentality thru the years. It's just not an appropriate interface for today's converged devices. Why then do you see HTC Touch Flo, or T-Mobile's Neo interface, or the popularity of SBP Mobile Shell? It's because the basic WM interface is outdated and extremely inefficient for a portable mobile device. If you choose not to believe it, then so be it.


And stop comparing todays day with the future, Roadmap? it may happens like it is written now it may be changed it may be canceled. Do you have a crystal ball infront of you? Neither do I.Pardon me, everything I mentioned iS FACT. Exchange Activesync is FACT. 3G is FACT.....part of a roadmap, no? [/quote]


Razr is 4-5 years old technology. That's 28-35 dog years, a lifetime in fast pace techno industry. ;) You can't teach an old dog new tricks, but you can make it to do things for you Check here: http://phone.mobile9.com/motorola/razr-v3/ and sorry to say productivity soft for razr is better than currently available for iPhone.

You obviously are not very aware of what is currently available for the iPhone. I don't even own one (my wife does), and even I know what the thing can do if you jailbreak it. Let's not say anything about jailbreaking because it's the equivalent of hacking a WM registry or loading a cooked ROM. Probably even better than a cooked rom because at least you can reset an iPhone to it's original state if you should ever need to bring it in for service.


That is your opinion. IMHO, what Apple did, took touch screen technology from narrow circle of speaking MS terminology "Professionals" to a main stream made it more available and user friendly. Will it take off? Time will tell.Um....it already has. Iphones already have already outsold WM devices in the US. The iPhone is the 2nd best selling smartphone device in the US behind Blackberrys. WM software developers like Vito, etc are scurrying to make their software more "finger and gesture friendly" and like I mentioned before the OEM's are doing their best to make WM phones more "iPhone like". HTC Touch anyone?

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Like or not, boys and girls, Apple did it again. Just like the original Mac back in 1984, the original iPod, and now the iPhone. Good for them.

I would say that can be considered as "taking off".

[JNGold]

I will continue it for you: Want to have hard buttons, physical keyboard and really don't care about touch screen. Read here: http://www.goodhousekeeping.com/home/products/qwerty-keyboard-cell-phones-3
This is publisher that caters to house wifes, regular folks, not hi tech geeks.
In AT&T product line #1 Motorala Moto Q 9h Global WM BTW, #2 Crackberry, and iPhone is #3 coinsedently followed by yet another WM device Pantech duo. All of them except iPhone don't have touch screen.

LOL! That's a nice article. Did you actually read it? Did you read the title? Seems to me like it's a bit slanted toward people who need to do a lot of texting. In which case of course a physical keyboard device will win out. So what say you regarding to WM devices like the Touch and the Touch Cruise too. I have Touch Cruise...what say you now? Why has the HTC Touch been so popular. Hmmmmm.......

BTW....don't see too many women and such using q9h's in the NYC subway or in the financial district. Blackberries and iPhones rule. I would know since I work in the area.

[virain]

LOL! That's a nice article. Did you actually read it? Did you read the title? Seems to me like it's a bit slanted toward people who need to do a lot of texting. In which case of course a physical keyboard device will win out. So what say you regarding to WM devices like the Touch and the Touch Cruise too. I have Touch Cruise...what say you now? Why has the HTC Touch been so popular. Hmmmmm.......

BTW....don't see too many women and such using q9h's in the NYC subway or in the financial district. Blackberries and iPhones rule. I would know since I work in the area.
WOW!!! You see many women using Blackberries and iPhones in NYC subway!!!??? I've been living here for over 20 years and still can't get a signal on a subway. Tell me what carrier do they use? I use AT&T, so far no luck, But I promise I will try it again tomorrow.
Now back to your question. Why Touch is so popular, that is. Because it's something new and exciting, like a new toy for a kid, even grown up but still a kid. Who did say that men with age still remain those little boys, only toys become more expansive? (my girlfriend likes to repeat it). And as far as article goes, yes I looked at it, can't say I read it closely, but have an idea. In my experience, women prefer to use SMS on their mobile devices, not email, and if they browse web, that's to find a address/phone of a trendy restaurant, or a store. ;)

[lanwarrior]

I will not dispute that the article presented some of the iPhone / iTouch shortcomings, but the article is very biased towards Windows Mobile because it didn't point out some of the major shortcomings of WM, and we're talking about an OS that has been out for more than 5 years!

Some major issues of WM:

1) Slow, buggy and un-intuitive OS.
2). The ability to do some of the things in WM is because of 3rd party applications. iPhone OS hasn't been out that long and 3rd party applications support are just announed.

I have WM devices since the days of Cassiopeia and Philips Nino, so I have a love and hate relationship with the OS. But last month I bought an iTouch (not iPhone) and I am just floored with how smooth and well integrated the OS is, not to mention the accelerometer (anyone remember Nyditot?). I am liking it so much I bought a Mac book just so I can develop for the iPhone OS.

I hope WM will continue to evolve in version 7, but for now the iPhone OS is best at what it do: email, web, and in the future 3rd party enterprise applications.

Developing in Objective-C, now that's a different story. :)

[virain]

Once again I will explain....the Windows Mobile operating system is 7+ years old and was designed for a slab-type PDA to be used with a stylus. Microsoft has carried that mentality thru the years. It's just not an appropriate interface for today's converged devices. Why then do you see HTC Touch Flo, or T-Mobile's Neo interface, or the popularity of SBP Mobile Shell? It's because the basic WM interface is outdated and extremely inefficient for a portable mobile device. If you choose not to believe it, then so be it.
I agree, visual interface is outdated, but in addition to what you can see and can do on the screen MS developed voice interface as well. Voice Commander it is called I think. It is easier to say call Joe Doe, or open Word than pecking at the screen looking for a contact or application. Unfortunately not all OEMs are using it, yet...[/quote]
Pardon me, everything I mentioned iS FACT. Exchange Activesync is FACT. 3G is FACT.....part of a roadmap, no?
So! iPhone is playing catch up with WM devices! Finally!



You obviously are not very aware of what is currently available for the iPhone. I don't even own one (my wife does), and even I know what the thing can do if you jailbreak it. Let's not say anything about jailbreaking because it's the equivalent of hacking a WM registry or loading a cooked ROM. Probably even better than a cooked rom because at least you can reset an iPhone to it's original state if you should ever need to bring it in for service.
How could I be aware of all the goofs that iPhone has to offer?! I just spent around $450 on this thing, played with it for almost a week and gave it to teenage girl. No of course, I know nothing!

Um....it already has. Iphones already have already outsold WM devices in the US. The iPhone is the 2nd best selling smartphone device in the US behind Blackberrys. WM software developers like Vito, etc are scurrying to make their software more "finger and gesture friendly" and like I mentioned before the OEM's are doing their best to make WM phones more "iPhone like". HTC Touch anyone?
First of all where did you get those numbers? I would appreciate a link to credible website to see it. And didn't UTC Touch came out before the iPhone?

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Like or not, boys and girls, Apple did it again. Just like the original Mac back in 1984, the original iPod, and now the iPhone. Good for them.
You right and iPhone/ iPod interface strangely reminds me of Palm. Same dull screen with icons on it. Different color, different icons, but same idea.

And at last why did iPhone so popular?
1 Mac fans waited for this device for years. Release of iPhone made them happy and proud and as Napoleon sad "Few people screaming are louder than silent crowd"
2 How many advertisements do you see on TV for WM? You can't go by a couple hours without seeing iPhone tutorials by Apple.
3 All touch screen device was something new and exciting Even HTC touch has Call and Release Buttons,

[lanwarrior]

So! iPhone is playing catch up with WM devices! Finally!

Emm, the iPhone OS has been out in less than a year, so yes, it have some catching up to do. But given what it has to offer so far, I think it excels compared to WM in email and web browsing and the OS is very easy, smooth, and intuitive.

And at last why did iPhone so popular?
1 Mac fans waited for this device for years. Release of iPhone made them happy and proud and as Napoleon sad "Few people screaming are louder than silent crowd"
2 How many advertisements do you see on TV for WM? You can't go by a couple hours without seeing iPhone tutorials by Apple.

Can't say much about Mac fanboy, but on no. 2, I will say it GREAT marketing effort from Apple. I have a Sprint Mogul and I see people coming to me asking "Is that the new iPhone?". And this is coming not only from professional people but bus drives and restaurant waitress! Where was MS just a year ago with all the advertisement? Up until last year, I have NOT seen WM advertisements in BART train station in the Bay Area. No wonder people doesn't know much about WM devices... :(

[jngold_me]

WOW!!! You see many women using Blackberries and iPhones in NYC subway!!!??? I've been living here for over 20 years and still can't get a signal on a subway

LMAO!!!! I guess you haven't been living here long enough! You didn't know you can read emails, play games, read news, heck even type an email that you're going to send? As for the iPhone.....short memory span you have....you can listen to your music, watch a video, etc. etc all without a cell phone signal.

Modern technology....ain't it grand?

Don't blame me or get angry....you said it.

And on a more serious note....yes, in some stations (not all) on the platform you can get a signal and use your phone or be connected using your data signal. I do it every day. It just depends how far down the platform is from the street and how far away from the entrance you are.

Oh btw....iPhone #3 in the world, #2 in the US (ahead of WM):

http://www.news.com/8301-13579_3-9865273-37.html

[aristoBrat]

I still don't understand a point behind multitouch on such small device.
Respectfully, if you owned an iPhone for a week and didn't walk away with an understanding of how multi-touch could be successfully implemented on "such a small device", then I wonder how many other concepts about the iPhone (that most others love) that you missed.

You never double-tapped a column on a web page in Safari to have it enlarged to screen width? This works so perfectly with column based web pages, like Drudge, or when you're viewing a list of new messages on a vBulletin forum.

You never used the finger-flick motion in the Photos application to move forward or backwards through the different photos, or pinched a specific point of the photo to zoom in or out?

You never tapped a point in Maps to quickly re-center on that point and zoom in, or double-tap on the screen to zoom out?

And at last why did iPhone so popular?
I think the more important question is "Why is the iPhone-owner satisfaction level so high?" Even with all of the points that you keep bringing up, it seems to consistently score higher in owner satisfaction than any other "smart" device out there. IMO, that's a huge reason why it's so popular. Owners telling people. Owners showing people. Look how many folks on this forum held out until many months later. Do you honestly think that it was an Apple TV ad that "got them"?

[txa1265]

True, Microsoft does the same thing, but they don't do it as routinely and consistently as Apple does. I'm currently running OSX on one of my machines. There's a lot to like, but I'm already getting tired of Apple's "the user is an idiot" approach.

That is strange ... I find the complete opposite. I have Unix capability, the best user interface (OS X), and the ability to run everything I need by dual-booting into Windows quickly and easily. My nice Dell XPS laptop has gotten cold lately ;)

As for the iPhone vs. WM, it reminds me of using a HP200LX when the original Palm came out. Why would anyone want such a limited and locked-in device? Yet it completely swamped the market, killed the Newton, and dominated MS's efforts for years ...

[virain]

LMAO!!!! I guess you haven't been living here long enough! You didn't know you can read emails, play games, read news, heck even type an email that you're going to send? As for the iPhone.....short memory span you have....you can listen to your music, watch a video, etc. etc all without a cell phone signal.
Yes, I guess I don't jump into the Subway as often, as Yellow Cab or on foot are my favorite means of transportation. But last time I use Subway, I didn't see many neither men nor women playing with their cellphones. Some school age kids playing with clam shell phones that look like RAzr or similar Samsung models and anumber of iPod listeners, not even touch. And forget Crackberry, unless you are in Starbacks.


And on a more serious note....yes, in some stations (not all) on the platform you can get a signal and use your phone or be connected using your data signal. I do it every day. It just depends how far down the platform is from the street and how far away from the entrance you are.
Yes, I am aware of it, but than again, I don't see people whipping out their iPhones and Crackberries in these places. Maybe they are not aware of such "signal spots" or maybe they don't care.
Oh btw....iPhone #3 in the world, #2 in the US (ahead of WM):

http://www.news.com/8301-13579_3-9865273-37.html
Kudos to Steve Jobs for well organized marketing compane!
So, my friend, I maybe disagree with you most of the time, but I do admire your iPhone Passion! :)

[virain]

Respectfully, if you owned an iPhone for a week and didn't walk away with an understanding of how multi-touch could be successfully implemented on "such a small device", then I wonder how many other concepts about the iPhone (that most others love) that you missed.

You never double-tapped a column on a web page in Safari to have it enlarged to screen width? This works so perfectly with column based web pages, like Drudge, or when you're viewing a list of new messages on a vBulletin forum.

You never used the finger-flick motion in the Photos application to move forward or backwards through the different photos, or pinched a specific point of the photo to zoom in or out? You never tapped a point in Maps to quickly re-center on that point and zoom in, or double-tap on the screen to zoom out?

Respectfully, You should check definition of multitouch before making this argument, Read here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multitouch
"Multi-touch is a human-computer interaction technique and the hardware devices that implement it, which allow users to compute without conventional input devices (i.e., mouse, keyboard). Multi-touch consists of a touch screen (screen, table, wall, etc.) or touchpad, as well as software that recognizes multiple simultaneous touch points, as opposed to the standard touch screen (i.e. computer touchpad, ATM machine), which recognizes only one touch point. This effect is achieved through a variety of means, including but not limited to: heat, finger pressure, high capture rate cameras, infrared light, optic capture, and shadow capture."
The key words are "multiple simultaneous touch points" that means you use multiple fingers at the same time in iPhone case, or should I give you definition of "simultaneous"?
Things like double taps, sliding etc were in the WM for years and are used in different apps. I refer to pitching screen with two fingers to zoom in or zoom out. Quiet uncomfortable thing to do with one hand.

I think the more important question is "Why is the iPhone-owner satisfaction level so high?" Even with all of the points that you keep bringing up, it seems to consistently score higher in owner satisfaction than any other "smart" device out there. IMO, that's a huge reason why it's so popular. Owners telling people. Owners showing people. Look how many folks on this forum held out until many months later. Do you honestly think that it was an Apple TV ad that "got them"?
You tell me you are iPhone fan. My take on it you can read in previous posts. It's new, it's long awaited, great advertisement, good timing (competitors didn't create anything new for somethime, not only MS, but Nokia, RIM as well, and people got tired of same all same all) and strong and loud Mac fan Club.
But articles like the one started this conversation, I mean the ones that don't kiss iPhone behind start appearing more and more, that is like Sobering up next day after you party hard all night. You got a headache, bad taste in your mouth, maybe remember stupid thing you did, and you don't want to admit it to yourself.
Apple is better to come up with iPhone 2 sooner than later, to keep excitement going at least for a while more.

[Russ Smith]

I think the more important question is "Why is the iPhone-owner satisfaction level so high?"

This is an important question. I think if you look at the stats, you'll see a lot of iPhone owners are folks that never owned a smart-phone before. On the one hand, you can say "They don't have much idea of what else is out there." On the other you can say "The iPhone is what made them take the jump."

Ultimately, it matters very little to me. I don't really care what's popular and what everyone else thinks is best. What matters is what works best for me. What's popular does affect me in some ways (Please note in passing my BetaMax player door-stop :)) but by-and-large I don't care.

I don't like the iPhone because it lacks some (in my mind) basic features that I'd have to have and it doesn't have enough features that I can't get elsewhere to interest me regardless. With Apple's philosophy, I don't see that changing either.

WM isn't completely there either, but it's closer (for me).

[Russ Smith]

As for the iPhone vs. WM, it reminds me of using a HP200LX when the original Palm came out. Why would anyone want such a limited and locked-in device? Yet it completely swamped the market, killed the Newton, and dominated MS's efforts for years ...

It's quite possible that history will repeat. Both iPhone and Palm, albeit limited, do what they do very well. In the longer perspective though, while Microsoft was playing "catch-up" early on with the Palm, the flexibility of the platform eventually carried it forward until Palm was trying to catch up (and seems to have failed).

[aristoBrat]

I refer to pitching screen with two fingers to zoom in or zoom out. Quiet uncomfortable thing to do with one hand.
Right, multi-touch works best with two hands. However, to zoom when using the iPhone with one hand, you simply have to double-tap the screen quickly to zoom in and out. Your choice.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1636
When viewing photos, web pages, email, or maps, you can zoom in and out. You can double-tap (tap quickly twice) to zoom in, then double-tap again to zoom out. Or just pinch to zoom in or out.

[aristoBrat]

This is an important question. I think if you look at the stats, you'll see a lot of iPhone owners are folks that never owned a smart-phone before. On the one hand, you can say "They don't have much idea of what else is out there." On the other you can say "The iPhone is what made them take the jump."
I've seen stats for both "consumers" and "businesses", but never any broken down to "first-time smartphone owners".

Here's one for the corporate smart-phone market. I'd guess that they're not first-time owners, but it doesn't specifically say that.
http://www.changewave.com/freecontent/viewalliance.html?source=/freecontent/2008/02/alliance-022708-SmartphonesPR.html

The point I was trying to make is that marketing and brand-loyalists will only take a product so far (speaking to virain's thought that Apple's marketing of the iPhone is why its continuing to sell so well 8 months after launch). Regardless of advertising, if a product doesn't live up the expectations built up by the marketing, it's not going to continue to sell well.

[virain]

Right, multi-touch works best with two hands. However, to zoom when using the iPhone with one hand, you simply have to double-tap the screen quickly to zoom in and out. Your choice.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1636
Do you think I don't know that? read the WHOLE sentence where I talk about multitouch. My point was that it has no use for device that small but to entertain a user, And the technology is better suited for larger devices such as MID/UMPC.

[virain]

I've seen stats for both "consumers" and "businesses", but never any broken down to "first-time smartphone owners".

Here's one for the corporate smart-phone market. I'd guess that they're not first-time owners, but it doesn't specifically say that.
http://www.changewave.com/freecontent/viewalliance.html?source=/freecontent/2008/02/alliance-022708-SmartphonesPR.html

The point I was trying to make is that marketing and brand-loyalists will only take a product so far (speaking to virain's thought that Apple's marketing of the iPhone is why its continuing to sell so well 8 months after launch). Regardless of advertising, if a product doesn't live up the expectations built up by the marketing, it's not going to continue to sell well.
Actually that is interesting how this article can be confusing and misleading. It looks at the brands of Smartphone manufacturers and completely ignores soft. platforms.
RIM has a proprietary platform, and it is for corporate use which is mostly, email, text, talk it is perfect. It's security features are second to none. BTW most executives carry 2 devices - one for email, supplied by their company, and that's Blackberry, and second is their own, Moto Razr, same iPhone, or something else that is either cute and trendy, or they got a good deal at a wireless store. Those who travel abroad, carry GSM devices who doesn't, use Verizon as a rule of a tumb.
So back to the topic. Cracberry is and will be a leader in corporate world because of its security features dor a long time.
iPhone - also proprietary platform. Article says that it has 59% satisfaction rate Sure, it's new, it's hip, it's trendy. To say bad things about it would be "politically incorrect" so to say. Everybody love it and so should we. Altough, the article goes to numbers for corporate buying. "Looking ahead to the 2nd Quarter ... Apple (11%) is second, down 3-pts from its previous high." So that's just prove what I said in previous posts. Party is over! Now people start to think about iPhone, soberly.
And that go Palm (8%), Motorola (7%) and Samsung (4%) have each experienced a 2-pt decline. And those are WM devices, 'cos that's what they sell to corporate world.
So here is a tricky part. If all corporate buying is 100%, of which - RIM 77%, iPhone 11% Palm 8% Motorola 7% and Samsung 4% then, we have extra 7% for WM, just add numbers. 77+ 11+ 8+ 7+4 I have a hard time to believe any "reliable report", authors of which don't understand how percentages work. :(

[stevew]

Apple (11%) is second, down 3-pts from its previous high." So that's just prove what I said in previous posts. Party is over! Now people start to think about iPhone, soberly.


Until iPhone 2.0 comes out in June with new features along with MS Exchange and other corporate features. Also the apps will start rolling in soon after. That's the whole thing with me and the iPhone platform. It will be constantly improving with updates and innovation. Something MS has missed the boat on. Sure MS may finally get off their butt now but we'll see.

[JNGold]

Altough, the article goes to numbers for corporate buying. "Looking ahead to the 2nd Quarter ... Apple (11%) is second, down 3-pts from its previous high." So that's just prove what I said in previous posts. Party is over! Now people start to think about iPhone, soberly.
And that go Palm (8%), Motorola (7%) and Samsung (4%) have each experienced a 2-pt decline. And those are WM devices, 'cos that's what they sell to corporate world.The party is over because Apple is down 3 points in corporate buying? What are you smoking? Whatever it is...give me some! :) Um....any percentage at all for Apple in the corporate market is cause for celebration.

As stevew said above, 2.0 is coming and so is Activesync.

Hey...how about that consumer market? :D

[angler]

Time will prove. iPhone looks like Symbian phone more than pocket pc that user can easily utilize his knowledge to manipulate the WM phone. Impact of iPhone seems making HTC earned a lot by selling its Touch in a short period. I would agree Microsoft should look into what Apple has inspired us.

[virain]

Until iPhone 2.0 comes out in June with new features along with MS Exchange and other corporate features. Also the apps will start rolling in soon after. That's the whole thing with me and the iPhone platform. It will be constantly improving with updates and innovation. Something MS has missed the boat on. Sure MS may finally get off their butt now but we'll see.

You do understand that your argument is silly, don't you? ""Until iPhone 2.0 comes out in June" And until SE Experia 1 comes out in september, ETen V900 sometimes this year, Samsung i780 and who knows what else!
And BTW, Shouldn't new iPhone get FCC aproval first, if it has 3G of course, and it takes more than a couple days even weeks. There's no sign of new iPhone on FCC site. All you'll get is a new software.

[virain]

The party is over because Apple is down 3 points in corporate buying? What are you smoking? Whatever it is...give me some! :) Um....any percentage at all for Apple in the corporate market is cause for celebration.

As stevew said above, 2.0 is coming and so is Activesync.

Hey...how about that consumer market? :D
No, party is over because people start taking second look at this device, and that's what 3 points represent. BTW that link provided by another iFonny is bogus, read my post, that so called report has no credebility.
But I guess you are so high on your iPhone already, that you don't have to smoke anymore. ;) Oh, right! You don't own iPhone, your wife, you cousine, your kid, your dog... remind me who does. In one post your wife it is and you have Palm Treo, in anothers Your wife has Palm and you HTC Touch

[aristoBrat]

http://www.macrumors.com/2008/04/03/3g-iphones-and-the-fcc-myth/

Apple submitted the original iPhone to the FCC on March 9, 2007. The documents, however, remained confidential until May 17, 2007, about six weeks prior to its launch. So while it may have required months for approval, it only appeared in the FCC database for all to see about 6 weeks prior to the ship date.

[JNGold]

No, party is over because people start taking second look at this device, and that's what 3 points represent. BTW that link provided by another iFonny is bogus, read my post, that so called report has no credebility.
But I guess you are so high on your iPhone already, that you don't have to smoke anymore. ;) Oh, right! You don't own iPhone, your wife, you cousine, your kid, your dog... remind me who does. In one post your wife it is and you have Palm Treo, in anothers Your wife has Palm and you HTC Touch

No, if you had bothered to read my posts my wife owns the iPhone. If you take the time to take a look at my PDA history you will see my current two WM phones are a Treo 750 and a HTC Touch Cruise and long history of other WM devices.

Your facts are a little messed up....the article you quoted is from business sales. That 3 point drop is most likely from business buyers waiting for iPhone 2 and Activesync. That usually happens when news that a more robust product is coming down the pipe. It is also why companies are careful to leak such information as such they don't want to affect sales of current products.

Makes sense? Point here is that in less than a year the Apple iPhone has become a major player in the consumer and according to your article that you posted, even the business market. No small accomplishment for what some call "a toy".

[stevew]

You do understand that your argument is silly, don't you?

Take a deep breathe virain. :)

[kiwi]

lol!

I decided to pop by smartphonethoughts as I havent been here for AGES.. I sold my smartphone recently and also my HP WM PDA.

so.. I see nothing's new here. WM Fans still going on about the iPhone..

lol! its so Ironic, even with all its flaws Apple has captured the market attention with its phone. If anything, I bet most joe consumer would think the WM smartphone is a new Blackberry anyway..

oh well, if only the RAZR had come out with WM software ;-)

[virain]

Your facts are a little messed up....the article you quoted is from business sales. That 3 point drop is most likely from business buyers waiting for iPhone 2 and Activesync. That usually happens when news that a more robust product is coming down the pipe. It is also why companies are careful to leak such information as such they don't want to affect sales of current products.

Makes sense? Point here is that in less than a year the Apple iPhone has become a major player in the consumer and according to your article that you posted, even the business market. No small accomplishment for what some call "a toy".
I don't see how my facts are messed up, it's the so called report facts are messed up, Authors can't even count. ;) Either they made an honest mistake, or were trying to please someone or something that paid them for this report and again, didn't do very good job.
And no it doesn't make sense. That's not how corporate world works, I have some experience there. But that would be another topic.

[jngold_me]

I don't see how my facts are messed up, it's the so called report facts are messed up, Authors can't even count. ;) Either they made an honest mistake, or were trying to please someone or something that paid them for this report and again, didn't do very good job.


And yet you quote it saying that Apple lost in percentage point? Don't quote a number and make a point that Apple lost some sort of marketshare or buying percentage and then say the numbers are junk.

And no it doesn't make sense. That's not how corporate world works, I have some experience there. But that would be another topic.

Just like your experience with the NYC subway? I have a lot of experience with corportate IT as I do work in the industry. It does work like that. Very simple, why a company go and purchase 1000's of iPhones (or any device for that matter) for employees when better integration with Exchange is due in the next version?

[virain]

And yet you quote it saying that Apple lost in percentage point? Don't quote a number and make a point that Apple lost some sort of marketshare or buying percentage and then say the numbers are junk.
I've also quoted all other manufacturers number and did some math with them, to show that it is bogus.



Just like your experience with the NYC subway? I have a lot of experience with corportate IT as I do work in the industry. It does work like that. Very simple, why a company go and purchase 1000's of iPhones (or any device for that matter) for employees when better integration with Exchange is due in the next version?
Frankly, it seems that you have more experience in PR, the way you twist facts, misquote and trying to mention name of Apple and its product every possible chance you've got. And that is considering you don't own it. ;), your wife does Sounds more like used car salesman trying to push a lemon.
I mean "It is not propaganda’s task to be intelligent, its task is to lead to success." Do you know who said it? just replace word advertisement, or PR what ever siuts you better., or promotion
If you love it so much , why wouldn't you buy one for yourself and be happy?
PS. I see you slightly changed your screen name, Good move since JN_Gold vigorously promoting iPhone on msmobiles.com, but I am sure it's just a coincidence :) You are just passionate about iPhone, correct?

[JNGold]

I've also quoted all other manufacturers number and did some math with them, to show that it is bogus.




Frankly, it seems that you have more experience in PR, the way you twist facts, misquote and trying to mention name of Apple and its product every possible chance you've got. And that is considering you don't own it. ;), your wife does Sounds more like used car salesman trying to push a lemon.
I mean "It is not propaganda’s task to be intelligent, its task is to lead to success." Do you know who said it? just replace word advertisement, or PR what ever siuts you better., or promotion
If you love it so much , why wouldn't you buy one for yourself and be happy?
PS. I see you slightly changed your screen name, Good move since JN_Gold vigorously promoting iPhone on msmobiles.com, but I am sure it's just a coincidence :) You are just passionate about iPhone, correct?

I am not trying to push anything. I just respect what Apple has done and what the iPhone has brought to the mobile industry. Besides being a damn good product, it is after all, a first generation product and will only get better. I also don't like the blase attitude that M$ has taken with WM over the past years. The combination of those two are the gist of my points to those who just want to dismiss the iPhone as "a toy".

Furthermore, I have been jngold_me on PPCThoughts since 2002 JNGold on other sites for just as long. I know, it's both names are just "SO" different. :confused:

I willpurchase one when (if) I feel that it suits my needs. Regardless of whether the iPhone does or doesn't suit any particular persons needs or wants in a device, the iPhone is here to stay and what Apple has managed to do in less than a year with the iPhone should make all other mobile device providers take note. Apparently, it's already starting as more OEM's are making iPhone-like devices.

[stevew]

I am not trying to push anything. I just respect what Apple has done and what the iPhone has brought to the mobile industry.


I agree. Also competition is good for the consumer. Either the iPhone will wake up Microsoft's Mobile Division or WM will go away. I'm hoping for the former but I'm not optimistic. Deep down I feel like WM will eventually give up on WM and concentrate on licensing software for Apple's iPhone. I think as the iPhone matures it will dominate the industry for the next few years. IMO

[Rocco Augusto]

I agree. Also competition is good for the consumer. Either the iPhone will wake up Microsoft's Mobile Division or WM will go away. I'm hoping for the former but I'm not optimistic. Deep down I feel like WM will eventually give up on WM and concentrate on licensing software for Apple's iPhone. I think as the iPhone matures it will dominate the industry for the next few years. IMO

I don't think Microsoft would just give up on the whole Windows Mobile experiment just yet. For a while now Microsoft has be licensing technologies to competitors. If I'm not mistaken, didn't they do the same with Nokia a few years back?

Microsoft is a large company and like almost all really giant companies at the end of the day it comes down to how much money you can bring into your department. A majority of the time, the left hand and the right hand don't even communicate.

[virain]

I am not trying to push anything. I just respect what Apple has done and what the iPhone has brought to the mobile industry. Besides being a damn good product, it is after all, a first generation product and will only get better. I also don't like the blase attitude that M$ has taken with WM over the past years. The combination of those two are the gist of my points to those who just want to dismiss the iPhone as "a toy".

Furthermore, I have been jngold_me on PPCThoughts since 2002 JNGold on other sites for just as long. I know, it's both names are just "SO" different. :confused:

I willpurchase one when (if) I feel that it suits my needs. Regardless of whether the iPhone does or doesn't suit any particular persons needs or wants in a device, the iPhone is here to stay and what Apple has managed to do in less than a year with the iPhone should make all other mobile device providers take note. Apparently, it's already starting as more OEM's are making iPhone-like devices.

And yet, you use JNGold id for this respond! I wander why would anyone need two have to different and yet with similar id accounts on the same blog? To create a illusion of a crowd? Its that many people complain about WM and glorify iPhone? Or maybe Apple pays per post? You pst here, on msmobiles, and who knows where else, so than more posts than more you make? I hope $teve Jobs doesn't pay you in iTunes, does he?
Just put this way. Before purchasing a product, smartphone in this case, people do their own research, as there's not much trust into official advertisement, people look for answers at blogs. And what is the best way to win over competition than put your own PR to mask as an unhappy user of WM in our case who wishes he could have that wonderful iPhone. "The fifth column" so to speak. It's cheap, as posting on a blog doen't cost a thing, and it is affective, as you can always can find here someone who is either wandering around searching for right device, or not very happy with his smartphone/PDA. Very clever! I mean MS people did pop up here a few times before, why wouldn't apple use WM blog against MS? I check recently one iPhone blog, I think it was iphoneblog.com or something like that. In the best tradition of Propaganda, Hail iPhone! We have another convert from WM, Those poor bustards (WM users) don't know what they missing!

[jngold_me]

And yet, you use JNGold id for this respond! I wander why would anyone need two have to different and yet with similar id accounts on the same blog? To create a illusion of a crowd? Its that many people complain about WM and glorify iPhone? Or maybe Apple pays per post? You pst here, on msmobiles, and who knows where else, so than more posts than more you make

Grow up dude and drop the conspiracy theory. The JNGold_Me was created in 2002 on PPCTs. The JNGold was created much later on Smartphone Thoughts when both communities were separate and I was considering purchasing a smartphone device. No big deal.

Yes, being an experienced member of the WM community for 8 years now, I have every right to complain about how M$ has treated the consumer and its attitudes toward WM. I have the luxury of saying how I feel about any mobile platform, whether it be Apple or Windows Mobile as I have no allegiance to any. I used WM because I choose to but I like the what the iPhone has brought to the mobile space. The iPhone 2 will most likely have enough features that I require to actually replace my WM device. That doesn't mean I will buy one. I usually keep my devices for about a year so I will evaluate the marketplace once again when it comes time again to purchase a device. This last purchase, I almost went with a Nokia N95 but the final decision against it was the fact that I couldn't find the apps I need for the s60 platform.

In the meantime, I will continue to watch the mobile space and compliment those competitors (Apple, Nokia, etc) that bring innovation and features that the consumers want to the mobile space.

[txa1265]

Just put this way. Before purchasing a product, smartphone in this case, people do their own research, as there's not much trust into official advertisement, people look for answers at blogs.

Actually, as a percentage of sales, the amount of folks researching in blogs / forums for any of this stuff is exceedingly small. At the same time, the higher the sticker price / techno-geek factor, the more likely the person is to already be involved in these sorts of places and therefore more likely to engage in discussions as well.

But I think it is a bit odd that you are essentially calling JNGold a 'corporate shill' for having positive things to say about the iPhone and negative things to say about WM.

I just don't believe things are that black & white. I was fortunate enough many years ago to get involved with the 'palm-sized PC' when it was still called Pegasus. I spent many years on Usenet, along with many names I recognize here who have deservedly gone on to become MVP's. Yet all of us have had critical things to say about MS and their mobile device implementations through the years. The anemic Office apps on the HPC 2000 platform stand as one of my great MS disappointments, and many of us constantly compares HPC keyboards to the Psion, or handwriting recog to the Newton MP2000 ... yet we weren't shills. (certainly there were trolls there, but I don't see it being true here).

[stevew]

Microsoft is a large company and like almost all really giant companies at the end of the day it comes down to how much money you can bring into your department. A majority of the time, the left hand and the right hand don't even communicate.

Yes they do have plenty of money to throw at WM, but you know Rocco, I just don't think WM is a priority with MS nor do they have their heart into it anymore, really it never has been a priority.

[JNGold]

Yes they do have plenty of money to throw at WM, but you know Rocco, I just don't think WM is a priority with MS nor do they have their heart into it anymore, really it never has been a priority.

Exactly. That's what I have been trying to say and what some don't want to hear.

Looks like many in the WM community are questioning M$ desire to improve WM (not the first article I have seen from a WM-specific site):

http://pocketnow.com/index.php?a=portal_detail&t=news&id=5281

[midtoad]

Every time I pull out my XV6700 now, after using an iPod Touch for a while, I'm reminded of how much I hate Pocket Internet Explorer. It's a piece of garbage that doesn't even support Javascript - I can't display Google maps. And we're on version 6 of the OS. Meanwhile Apple has the best mobile browser EVER in their very first attempt at a mobile OS.

Next I move from my house where I have fixed IP on my WiFI router, and stop at a coffee-shop where they have DHCP on their free WiFi. It takes a minute or more to reconfigure the wireless hardware in the XV6700 so I can actually connect - that's if I can remember where in the hell to find the obscure setting that allows me to do that. Meanwhile, the Touch just automatically made the change and connected before I ever turned on the screen.

next I get an email on the XV6700 with a Word document. I open it in Pocket Word and find ALL of the formatting is gone, because, cruel hoax, Pocket Word is really notepad with a new name. Instead, I get out the Touch, open my email in GMail in Safari, and with one click my document is available with all its formatting in GoogleDocs.

Next I leave the coffee shop and go somewhere where there's no WiFi. I get another email on the XV6700 and reply to it. I enjoy the slide-out keyboard which makes composing a reply somewhat pleasant, then press Send and watch the speedy EVDO send off the message.

Lastly, I get an email from Microsoft telling me that Windows Mobile 6.1 is now available. They even helpfully list the machines that can be upgraded - four models out of hundreds available on the market! Meanwhile, Apple released numerous updates to its product in the past twelve months, and all of them were free (for iPhone users), or $20 for Touch users. Conclusion: if you buy a WM product, it's a dead-end. If you buy an Apple product, it has a future.

Can I live without my WM smartphone? No, but not for much longer. All of the shiny new hardware running WM can't hide the fact that it's running WM, which is tired, ugly and difficult to work with. Microsoft doesn't actually seem to understand how to build a mobile OS that is pleasant to work with. As a consequence, I actively avoid using it now, and often will just wait until I have a WiFi connection so I can use my Touch instead. I've been using PDAs since 1992, Palm OS devices since 1996, and WM devices since soon after that. And I see that Apple has accomplished more in one year than MS has in 10. I'm no fanboy; if MS could make an OS that was as pleasant and easy to use as the OS in the Touch or iPhone, I'd be all over it. They have $Billions at their disposal, so why is it that Apple now command more of the smartphone market than MS? Is it laziness, incompetence, or something else?

[lanwarrior]

Every time I pull out my XV6700 now, after using an iPod Touch for a while, I'm reminded of how much I hate Pocket Internet Explorer. It's a piece of garbage that doesn't even support Javascript - I can't display Google maps. And we're on version 6 of the OS. Meanwhile Apple has the best mobile browser EVER in their very first attempt at a mobile OS.

Next I move from my house where I have fixed IP on my WiFI router, and stop at a coffee-shop where they have DHCP on their free WiFi. It takes a minute or more to reconfigure the wireless hardware in the XV6700 so I can actually connect - that's if I can remember where in the hell to find the obscure setting that allows me to do that. Meanwhile, the Touch just automatically made the change and connected before I ever turned on the screen.


I couldn't agree with you more. I am no Mac fanboys either, but boy do iPhone OS and built-in applications shine! Safari is a fast and a bliss to move around and iPhone OS hardly crash or even have the dreaded "out of memory" or slowness. Phone truly CLOSE the applications, whilst Windows Mobile leave it running in the background when pressing the "X" button.

This is what draw people to the iPhone / iPod touch: it just works. Funny thing is that I have a Sprint Mogul with WMWifiRouter and I use that with my iPod Touch and browse the web instead of the Sprint Mogul. Well, I can'[t get rid of the Mogul yet because I have 2-years contact with Sprint. Once that out and iPhone 3G is up, I will be hard pressed NOT to get the iPhone.

[virain]

Yes, being an experienced member of the WM community for 8 years now, I have every right to complain about how M$ has treated the consumer and its attitudes toward WM. I have the luxury of saying how I feel about any mobile platform, whether it be Apple or Windows Mobile as I have no allegiance to any. I used WM because I choose to but I like the what the iPhone has brought to the mobile space. The iPhone 2 will most likely have enough features that I require to actually replace my WM device. That doesn't mean I will buy one. I usually keep my devices for about a year so I will evaluate the marketplace once again when it comes time again to purchase a device. This last purchase, I almost went with a Nokia N95 but the final decision against it was the fact that I couldn't find the apps I need for the s60 platform.

In the meantime, I will continue to watch the mobile space and compliment those competitors (Apple, Nokia, etc) that bring innovation and features that the consumers want to the mobile space.
Interesting... And I thought that's it is god given right of every human being to express his/her opinion in such open and free place like blogosphere. But it looks like you have to have some years under your belt to do that.. Silly me. :)

[virain]

Yes they do have plenty of money to throw at WM, but you know Rocco, I just don't think WM is a priority with MS nor do they have their heart into it anymore, really it never has been a priority.
Maybe it's not the money. Just look at MS history for the past couple decades. Any advance, any improvement thay make to Windows, and I am not talking about WM, only they are gettiting hammered with law suites by those who lost competition. Netscape, Sun Microsystems, the very same Apple. You can say that "Greedy" MS stealing someone elses ideas, patents and so on, but the truth is if you reach certain level of success, you will have someone who will try to byte pieces of you. And don't forget ever hungry governments, be it USA or EU. who wants to take Windows apart to promote their own soft. But who did benefit from all those MS "crimes"? Consumer! How much did Netscape cost? $40-$50. Now you have choice of browsers that if you don't like IE you can use for FREE, Firefox, Safari, Opera, just to name few. Same goes for Media palyer that EU demand to remove. Latest byte came from Opera. They want MS to remove IE and install Opera! I mean if they can't charge customers, let MS pay licensing fees, right?
If you stay small, you are not likely to be hit with one of those lawsuits, Once you get successful, well known, and flash with cash, there's always someone who will want a piece of you. I believe $teve Jobs with his iPhone feels the hit already. I've seen couple interesting articles.
So, my point is, Maybe we could have improved WM already, but it looks like this days lawyers make decisions, what can, and what can't be done. Not the talented engineers, soft. devs, etc. Once, Lawyer approve changes to OS, that it can be released. Otherwise what's the point? To release new product, and then spend all the profits on litigation with sore looser competitor? Not a good deal, if you ask me.

[stevew]

Maybe it's not the money. Just look at MS history for the past couple decades. Any advance, any improvement thay make to Windows, and I am not talking about WM, only they are gettiting hammered with law suites by those who lost competition. Netscape, Sun Microsystems, the very same Apple. You can say that "Greedy" MS stealing someone elses ideas, patents and so on, but the truth is if you reach certain level of success, you will have someone who will try to byte pieces of you. And don't forget ever hungry governments, be it USA or EU.

What's that have to do with the lack of attention given to WM?

[virain]

What's that have to do with the lack of attention given to WM?

Read post to the end
And here little look ahead: http://www.coolsmartphone.com/news3981.html
Do you Remember the article that started this tread?
Here's Part 2: http://www.pocketpcmag.com/blogs/index.php?blog=1&title=a_stranger_in_a_strange_land_revisited_3

[unxmully]

Maybe it's not the money. Just look at MS history for the past couple decades. Any advance, any improvement thay make to Windows, and I am not talking about WM, only they are gettiting hammered with law suites by those who lost competition.

No, hey got hammered with law suites because they were guilty of abusing a monopoly position. And will continue to do so while the EU feels they are guilty of abuse. And as an EU citizen I'm quite happy about that.

So, my point is, Maybe we could have improved WM already, but it looks like this days lawyers make decisions, what can, and what can't be done. Not the talented engineers, soft. devs, etc. Once, Lawyer approve changes to OS, that it can be released. Otherwise what's the point? To release new product, and then spend all the profits on litigation with sore looser competitor? Not a good deal, if you ask me.
And no again. Where Microsoft once innovated and led, they're now fat and lazy and follow. And to compound it they invested how much time, effort and money in the Lemon from Hell that is Vista?

Bill's moved on and Ballmers some kind of lunatic while Steve Jobs is stil a perfectionist which is why short-term Apple and other innovators are going to carry on eating their lunch. And despite the fact that active sync is an excellent idea, its implementation still blows goats for money.

[Rob Alexander]

MS has been asleep. If none of you other WM users realize that, then for sure MS will keep sleeping and giving you practically the same device slightly refreshed without moving their asses to innovate.


These fan-boy arguments all go about the same way. Point out flaws in someone's new pet product and people come flying out to defend it with no regard for whether the criticism is justified. One of the most useless of those defenses is the old, 'well your product has problems too'. Well, yeah, WM has problems. Just look around the Thoughts Media sites. They're full of articles in which WM users complain about things they don't like about WM, including that MS has been sitting on their collective rears for some years in UI design.

But what does that have to do with anything? None of that changes that this was a very good article that points out some real weaknesses in the iPhone. It's really irrelevant that WM has its own weaknesses, because the article was about things the author needs in a smart phone that the iPhone can't give him that WM can. At the end of the day, there really is no answer for that, or 'defense' for the iPhone on those points. If you need the same features the author does (as I do), then the iPhone is simply not an option. It's pretty, but as for getting real work done, it just doesn't cut it.

I don't know why that's so threatening to iPhone users. Clearly if you use one and like it, then you don't need to do the same things that we do, so the iPhone's shortcomings are irrelevant to you. Why does the iPhone's lack of meeting our needs make people who are otherwise happy with their iPhones feel so threatened?

[Rob Alexander]

I will not dispute that the article presented some of the iPhone / iTouch shortcomings, but the article is very biased towards Windows Mobile because it didn't point out some of the major shortcomings of WM, and we're talking about an OS that has been out for more than 5 years!

So what? The article was about shortcomings with the iPhone, not about shortcomings with the WM platform. An author is under no obligation, upon criticizing one platform, to methodically go through every other platform and list their shortcomings as well. There are plenty of articles about WM problems, but few enough that point out what's lacking when you look behind the pretty face of the iPhone.

I've been as fascinated with the iPhone as anyone else, but this article really helped to make clear in my mind why I cannot even consider it. The author got me thinking that, of the top ten things I do with my smart phone, the iPhone cannot do seven of them.

[virain]

The biggest argument of Apple fanboys is "Wait and see what iPhone will be", So take a look at what WM7 will be
http://microsoft.blognewschannel.com/archives/2008/01/06/exclusive-windows-mobile-7-to-focus-on-touch-and-motion-gestures/

[jngold_me]

The biggest argument of Apple fanboys is "Wait and see what iPhone will be", So take a look at what WM7 will be
http://microsoft.blognewschannel.com/archives/2008/01/06/exclusive-windows-mobile-7-to-focus-on-touch-and-motion-gestures/

Yeah...due out in 2009....MAYBE. By then the who knows where the competition will be. Even Brandon Miniman, former MVP, mentioned the possiblity of it being to late by the time WM7 comes along.