Any way to go "sych-less"?

[Russ Smith]

One of the things I carry with me when I'm out of the office is a USB stick that holds a suite of "Portable Applications." These apps run completely off the stick and include the latest versions of Firefox and Thunderbird. It's awesome to be able to walk up to any Internet-connected Windows box, plug in my USB stick and immediately run my browser with my bookmarks and my e-mail client with all my e-mail and addresses already there... all of it without any syching at all. The only thing I don't like is having to find a Windows box when I've got a perfectly good PPC right there at my side.

Recently, I saw Firefox (albeit version 1.0) running under Linux on an HP hx4700. I suppose version 2.0 of either Firefox or Thunderbird might tax the small memory model of a PPC, but it did start me thinking. We can run a Word Processor (TextMaker) which has most of the useful features of the desktop version of Microsoft Word on our PPCs. Likewise Excel with PlanMaker. There's no synching (and/or conversion) necessary with these. You can use a CF or SD card to store your Word and Excel documents, slap it into your PPC and take up right where you left off.

Wouldn't it be great if you could do the same thing with your browser shortcuts (bookmarks) and saved passwords and your e-mail messages, address book, attachments, etc.? (sort of Portable Firefox for PPC and Portable Thunderbird for PPC)

One of the reasons I think this would be so cool is that I really hate synching. It's too buggy. Sometimes it just won't work at all. When it does work, it takes too long. When it doesn't work, I end up with multiple copies of appointments or important e-mails deleted. I'd so much rather just pop an SD card out of my desktop, pop it into my PPC and go.

I'm sure there are some folks out there that know exactly why this would never work :devilboy: and this wouldn't be the first time I'm off on some Quixotic fantasy, if that's the case here. I'd still like to throw this out and see what you all think.

[Sven Johannsen]

Probably would be cool, and I don't think all that technically challenging. Thing is I don't think you really need to. The benefit to the system you use on PCs is that you can go to 'any'PC and bring up your 'profile' for lack of a better word.

Since this is your Mobile Device you would (could) generate your profile on it directly. You could sync all your favorites once to start. The mail you are talking about is a web based system isn't it? I would guess you are just saving your preferences on the USB stick, not all the mail. Is that right?

[Russ Smith]

Sven,
Thunderbird is a local e-mail client, not a web-based one, so all the e-mail is stored in program's data file area. Using a web-based e-mail client would also be synchless, since the e-mail is stored on and accessible through the web, but there's always that annoying instance when you can't get an Internet connection that gives me pause. To me, local data that can move from computer to computer is the attraction. I already synch favorites, so I'm partway there (except it's IE to PIE, not Firefox to PIE), but my e-mail synching is fraught with issues, errors, and frustrations. I'd love to be able to take it with me just by transferring a data card. I'd like anything that would reduce the time and frustration.

There's an additional scenario where the Windows Mobile Device Center link is used as a network link (which it essentially is already) allowing my desktop e-mail client to simply use the same data area for e-mail while it's docked, completely eliminating both synching and swapping cards. I can see that might not be ideal for everyone though.

[hamishmacdonald]

What about that Dashwire service that was announced on here a short time ago? It theoretically uploads lots of the data (contacts, pictures, etc) from your device to a website.

I tried it out briefly, but it didn't connect to most of those services on my device. It's just in beta, though, so bound to get better.

http://www.dashwire.com/

[Russ Smith]

Dashwire's concept is to manage your phone from your computer. Information is uploaded from your phone so you can work with it on the big screen and then the changes are download. Pretty cool for what it does, but not what I had in mind.

What I'd like is to be able to work with the same data on my desktop and PPC without synching; without converting; without uploading and downloading. The only way I can see to do that is if the programs on the PPC and desktop use the same file format and same file architecture. I referred to Portable Thunderbird and Portable Firefox because these programs already do essentially that, but only on desktop OS machines. You can actually take the profiles created in Windows, and copy them to the Mac Firefox profile area and use them. Same with Linux. I'd like to see "same with PPC." Then, all I need to do to "sync" is pop out a card and put it into the other machine. No muss, no fuss, no sync errors. 8)

[Sven Johannsen]

I get the idea, and it does seem like it would be usefull, and not excessively techniccally challenging...but...

I don't see a problem in both the PPC and the desktop using the same data file, E-Wallet does just that, or at least it did. It was just one data file that was kept up to date with Files Sync that both the PPC and the desktop read. Same concept could be used for a mail program, and a web browser.

A little more of a challenge in this case is that you need to create two independent programs that work as just executables on the desktop and PPC. Since what you are looking for is a program that doesn't need to be 'installed' you'd need standalone executable code. It is possible for both platforms, of course, but this may be one of those things that has limited enough potential market, that development may not pass the ROE test. Might be something a hobbiest coder does for himself and then sets free, or offers for a little consideration.

[Nurhisham Hussein]

...E-Wallet does just that, or at least it did.

It still does, as does ListPro.

[Russ Smith]

I'd be willing to give up program portability if it would net me data portability (without synching). I like Thunderbird and Firefox quite well, but I used to use IE and Outlook specifically so that I could synch.

The Portable Apps have both portable data and program, but only on Windows boxes. It might be a better analogy to point at the fact that, whether you're running Thunderbird on a Windows, Macintosh, or Linux machine, the profile data has exactly the same structure and exactly the same files. (I've already transferred profiles from Windows to Mac and back.) It would be a simple matter to change the file pointers to locate the profile on a USB stick or (if you have a reader) CF or SD card. The only thing missing is the ability to run a program that would use the profile (including e-mail data) on the PPC.

I agree that this at least looks like a niche program. The only reason I got here at all is because of major issues with PPC synching, most having to do with e-mail. Portable data is one means of "solving" that problem by coming at it from a totally different direction. There are undoubtedly others. The one flaw in portable data is that it doesn't deal with the possibility that you might be using both machines at the same time for the same purpose.) Unlikely, but the current synching process at least attempts to deal with the possibility that both sides have simultaneously changed some part(s) of the data.

[Sven Johannsen]

...I agree that this at least looks like a niche program. The only reason I got here at all is because of major issues with PPC synching, most having to do with e-mail. ....

Obvously you aren't using an Exchange Server :roll: That would be the MS solution to your mail sync issue. I can't confirm first hand, but I understand that scenario does work fairly well, providing off-line capabilities and pretty solid syncing when connectivity is available. :wink:

[Russ Smith]

...I agree that this at least looks like a niche program. The only reason I got here at all is because of major issues with PPC synching, most having to do with e-mail. ....

Obvously you aren't using an Exchange Server :roll: That would be the MS solution to your mail sync issue. I can't confirm first hand, but I understand that scenario does work fairly well, providing off-line capabilities and pretty solid syncing when connectivity is available. :wink:

Obviously :) I work for a church. We don't have an IT budget at all. We have a web site with e-mail addresses and forwarding capabilities. (I happen to be the webmaster too.) I want to sync both personal and work-related e-mail, neither is on an Exchange Server. Sometimes it seems MS seems content to have things work for their corporate clientèle and letting individuals fend for themselves :roll:

[Cybrid]

Opera will allow desktop/ pda synchronization and is available for "www.u3.com" and "portable apps"
and while there isn't a pda version of Thunderbird, there is a desktop version of NPop. Npop is an email client...robust and a standalone .exe with a "mail" file. Easily transferrable.

For Opera on PDA, see Menneisyys' extensive research and try out the desktop client (was free?).

For NPop, refer to Gerard who for many years refused to sync and did almost everything on a PPC.

[Russ Smith]

Cybrid,
Thanks. I confess that I'd been following Menneisyys' Opera posts but had completely forgotten that there might be a compatible desktop client, especially a Portable App. I'll look into it.

I remember Gerard from back when I was actively using a Pocket PC earlier. Like him, I really don't use the desktop for PIM at all. Unless you're synching your calendar with others, I'm not sure I see the point (except maybe to be able to insert it easily into e-mails and other work). Thanks for reminding me about nPop.

This may just be a real no-sych solution :!:

[Russ Smith]

OperaUSB is a version of Opera that operates off of a USB stick. That allows me to move Opera to any Windows box just by moving the stick. The 9.50beta version also supports web-based synching with a free opera account. I'm looking at various versions of Opera for WM to see which will work the best. The "mini" (java applet) version will also work with web-based synching. It's free. The only issue is that on my HiDPI (VGA) screen the text and menus are pretty small. The "mobile" version is designed for the PPC screen and has some nice additional features. It's a 30-day trial though. Then you have to buy it. I'm looking to see how easy it would be to transfer the bookmarks (and hopefully saved passwords and such) with and/or without synching. Opera can (as you might figure) import bookmarks directly from Firefox so the transition from my previous browser was pretty quick.

On the e-mail front, I'm sure nPop will work. Actually, the original developer of nPop isn't working on it anymore but a group out of the UK is. You'll find the latest versions at http://www.npopsupport.org.uk/ The Win32 version works fine under Vista (even though it doesn't say that it does). The WM5 version (no surprise here) also works under WM6. Both the Win and WM versions require no installation. You just copy the executable to a directory of your choice and run it. On WM you can simply create a shortcut to the executable and place it in your Start Menu for easier access.

nPop can import e-mail from Thunderbird. The trick is to rename the Thunderbird e-mail files to add the extension .mbx (They're standard Unix Mailbox/mbox format files.) Thunderbird allows hirarchical folders where nPop doesn't but, otherwise, the import is straight-forward.

nPop has an .ini file that's created the first time you run it. The second line of the file is "DataFileDir=". If left blank, it defaults to the same directory as the executable, but you can change it to any you wish. You can do several things with this option: You can set DataFileDir to be on a Storage Card that you swap from PC to WM device for use. There's no synching then. All your data moves with the card. If you use ActiveSync or Windows Mobile Device Center another option is to direct the WM device to a directory in My Documents and the PC to the same directory within the "Documents on 'WMDevice'" directory. Then, each time you sync, your nPop email will also synch. (The only caveat here is that, if you worked with e-mail on both PC and WM device prior to synching and updated the same Mailbox, whichever device was used for e-mail last would simply overwrite the Mailbox changes on the other. Since I plan to use one or the other at a time, that's not an issue for me.)

[Cybrid]

The only issue is that on my HiDPI (VGA) screen the text and menus are pretty small. Change the font size :idea:

[Russ Smith]

Thanks. I suspected there was an option to do that, but the text was so blasted small, it was hard to tell :) I'll go hunting.

[Russ Smith]

Well I found the font setting so I can see what I'm doing now, but hit another snag: Every time I try to do something that acesses the web, I get a white scren and nothing...

I've got WiFi on and connected, but I think mini is looking foo a cellular connection of some sort. I can't find an option to enter my opera account info either (which it should have to do the synch)

The Mobile version doesn't have the synch funtion at all. (Maybe in version 9) I'm going to check the file structures to see if a straight copy would work from destop to mobile.

[Cybrid]

Well I found the font setting so I can see what I'm doing now, but hit another snag: Every time I try to do something that acesses the web, I get a white screen and nothing...
On mini, as part of the start up it requires "random" data. Some screen taps and button
pushes to create an encryption scheme. Watch the progress bar on the bottom during the white screen. Does it progress as you tap away?

I've got WiFi on and connected, but I think mini is looking foo a cellular connection of some sort. I can't find an option to enter my opera account info either (which it should have to do the synch)
Opera mini 4, has the sync option. I've sucessfully run Opera on non-cellular PDA's using hacked java KVM's. WiFi does work.
List the steps you've taken thus far. I'll try to walk you through the rest of the way.


The Mobile version doesn't have the synch funtion at all. (Maybe in version 9) I'm going to check the file structures to see if a straight copy would work from destop to mobile.Opera version 4. On the start page.
http://www.winmobiletech.com/102007OM4b3/OM4b3SynLink.png
Menneisyys...I hope you don't mind, I couldn't get a screenshot of it on my own.

[r@dimus]

Firefox stores its bookmarks in a standard HTML file. If you install your portable apps on an SD card then you could access the Firefox bookmarks by opening the HTML file with Pocket IE when the SD card is inserted into the PPC. Use a SD card reader for the PC. Lexar's JumpDrive is a good one for this, since it is fully enclosed.

For email, set your POP3 clients to leave the email on the server, but to delete email off the server that you delete on the client. That way no matter what email client you are using you see the same email. In your case there would be three copies of your email. One on the server, one in Portable Thunderbird, and another in your PPC mail client.

nPOPuk is a very nice email client. My wife uses it a lot on her HP 4150 and I use it on my Dell X51v.

[Russ Smith]

I got through the random data input just fine. The progress bar moved up everytime I tapped. No problems there.

Well I found the font setting so I can see what I'm doing now, but hit another snag: Every time I try to do something that acesses the web, I get a white screen and nothing...
On mini, as part of the start up it requires "random" data. Some screen taps and button
pushes to create an encryption scheme. Watch the progress bar on the bottom during the white screen. Does it progress as you tap away?
It was just a theory (apparently not the case). Basically, I dropped the two hacked .dlls (Phone.dll and Sms.dll) into the Windows folder on my PPC, did a soft reset and used the Cloudyfa_EsmertecJbed MidiLet manager. The .jad files do their installation routines just fine. The .jar files appear to work too. The only problem is that weird "white screen of doing nothing" when I attempt to access web.

I've got WiFi on and connected, but I think mini is looking foo a cellular connection of some sort. I can't find an option to enter my opera account info either (which it should have to do the synch)
Opera mini 4, has the sync option. I've sucessfully run Opera on non-cellular PDA's using hacked java KVM's. WiFi does work.
List the steps you've taken thus far. I'll try to walk you through the rest of the way.
When I said the "Mobile version", I was referring to Opera for Windows Mobile. I found the Synch function in Mini as you showed and it probably would work if I could get past the "WSoDN" screen noted above.

The Mobile version doesn't have the synch funtion at all. (Maybe in version 9) I'm going to check the file structures to see if a straight copy would work from destop to mobile.Opera version 4. On the start page.
http://www.winmobiletech.com/102007OM4b3/OM4b3SynLink.png
Menneisyys...I hope you don't mind, I couldn't get a screenshot of it on my own.

I have noticed that you can use the bookmark HTML files directly as you said. It's not quite as useful as having the favorites right in the menu, but it does work. I am using card readers: My desktop already has a built-in card reader that handles SD and CF cards (among others) so that's not an issue unless I'm elsewhere. For elsewhere, I have several USB card readers for both CF and SD cards. My personal favorite is a combination of an 2GB SD micro card with a carrier for use in the SD slot along with another carrier that slides into a USB slot. The USB carrier is _very_ small (barely larger than the SD micro card). I carry both in my PPC case. Right now I have both OperaUSB (PC only) and nPOPuk (both PPC and PC) installed on the card. I've modified the nPOPuk .ini files to both point to the same folder for data so there's no synching there. Opera's still not quite there in terms of "no synch", but otherwise works well for me.

As far as "leaving e-mail on the server", as you're probably aware, nPOP does that by nature (until you specifically delete it and Update the accounts) so I'm good there. I'd already been using Thunderbird so most of my messages were already downloaded off the server. Fortunately, you can easily transfer email from Thunderbird to nPOP as I mentioned earlier. I've got a set of "Mail boxes" set up within nPOP. When I want to keep an email message on a semi-permanent basis, I just move it to one of these boxes. That keeps the server relatively clean and my copies relatively organized.
Firefox stores its bookmarks in a standard HTML file. If you install your portable apps on an SD card then you could access the Firefox bookmarks by opening the HTML file with Pocket IE when the SD card is inserted into the PPC. Use a SD card reader for the PC. Lexar's JumpDrive is a good one for this, since it is fully enclosed.

[aximilation]

Has anyone thought of using the storage card in your phone as a USB drive? There was a program I got off smartphonethoughts a while ago when I had a smartphone let you do that...you enable an option and it would take access from the storage card and make it look like your phone was a pen drive when you plugged it in...only disadvantage is when it was on you couldn't access the info from the phone, still, it was nice.
I'd love to look into this option to go synch-less, as it did *not* require any extra drivers, which is an issue with me, I would like to carry a copy of activesync and the drivers for my tilt anywhere I go so all I need is my cable, then I can set up internet sharing anywhere, as is, if I don't have internet access, I'm kinda SOL because I haven't had the time to download activesync to a disk and stuff.
My question, has anyone seen a program around like this, for the pocket pc? That was one thing I lost when I went to a touch screen... :-(

Thanks!

[Nurhisham Hussein]

Depends which OS you are using. For WM2003SE and older, try <a href="http://software.pocketpcthoughts.com/product.asp?id=12960&n=Softick-CardExport-for-Windows-Mobile" target="_blank">Softick Card Export II. </a> Although Card Export II also handles WM5 and above, you can get <a href="http://wm5torage.en.softonic.com/windowsmobile" target="_blank">WM5torage</a> instead - that's freeware. Decent app if you don't mind the lack of support.

[Zman]

Why can't you do this now? Or what can't you do? Can't you simply store your favorites and email in a pst file on a SD card and use it both a PPC and any computer?