Leader of The Empire: The HTC TyTN II Reviewed [Archive]

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Jon Westfall

09-20-2007, 04:00 PM

<img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/westfall/westfall-tytn2review-splash.jpg" /> Product Category: Microsoft® Windows Mobile® 6 Professional Device Manufacturer: <a href="http://TyTNseries.htc.com/">HTC</a> Where to Buy: <a href="http://www.mobileplanet.com/d.aspx?i=151727&partner=pthoughts">Expansys / Mobileplanet</a> [Affiliate] Price: $789.95 USD System Requirements: ActiveSync 4.5 (For desktop sync), GSM service provider & data plan. Specifications: Hardware only: 112 mm x 59 mm x 19 mm, 176 g. 400 mhz processor, 256 MB ROM, 128 MB RAM, 2.8'' TFT-LCD, 3 Megapixel Camera, WiFi, Bluetooth 2.0, GPS, Video Conference Camera. Pros: <li>Multiple Radios & Integrated GPS;<li>3 MP Camera;<li>Snappy Processor. Cons: <li>No VGA;<li>Small keyboard buttons, no space between keys;<li>May be difficult to find power button at first! Summary: HTC code-named their latest device the Kaiser, a name meaning Emperor in German. But can it command the empire all from a nice little holster on your belt? Its stats say it can - let's dive in and find out! Read on for the full review!<!> <PAGEBREAK> The Day Before It's not standard practice for me to begin writing a review before I actually receive the device, but in this case, I wanted to capture and share my thoughts on this device both before initially looking at it and after. So here's what's on my mind the night before my Kaiser is scheduled to be delivered! In a <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=439840&highlight=#439840">post</a> I made back in July, I jokingly said that I was upset that HTC didn't include the kitchen sink in this device, as it appears to have everything else you'd ever want. Sure, it's not a VGA screen and it's a small slider form-factor (which some many not like), but as far as devices go, you can't argue that this is quite possibly the most feature-packed device to be released to date. I find myself intrigued because with every previous device I've used, and reviewed, I've always had one thing that was on the wish list that didn't make it to the final product. For example, the <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/articles.php?action=expand,50869">HP iPAQ 6915</a> included GPS, WiFi, Bluetooth, Keyboard, and more, but somewhat annoyed me with the square screen. Square screens just don't seem practical for GPS applications. Furthermore was the problem of a non-standard connector (instead of mini-USB) and a rather pokey processor. Prior to reviewing the iPAQ, I had looked at the <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/articles.php?action=expand,45046">Sprint PPC 6700</a>, which was a peppy little unit but lacked GPS - something I've wanted in a daily-driver unit (more on my uses for GPS later in this review!). And the <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/articles.php?action=expand,43084">i-Mate Jasjar</a> was, let's face it, a friggin' brick! While it packed quite a whallop in terms of ability and form factor, it was way too big to be a daily driver (it is good for specific situations, however, I still have and use mine fairly frequently). Including units I haven't reviewed but owned, such as the K-JAM (loved it, but no GPS and pokey processor!), the Dash (no touchscreen!), and the Treo 750v (No WiFi - come on Palm, WiFi isn't a passing fad!), I've always traded off one feature I've really wanted for a bunch of others that were available. If I were to design a Pocket PC, I'd make sure it had a fast processor, was small enough to be pocketable, had the "Big 3" radios (GPS, WiFi, Bluetooth), used standard connectors for charging & sync, supported A2DP, was a 320x240 touchscreen, had a built-in keyboard, and looked somewhat stylish. After reading the specs for my "ideal" Pocket PC, you can understand why the Kaiser appealed to me. Heck, it even has some features I didn't request, such as a scroll-wheel and tilt-screen ability! So it appears that this device is everything I want. However, as always, I'm skeptical that I'll find the "perfect" device, especially as I peer into my drawer and count 6 Windows Mobile devices, all of which seemed perfect but inevitably had flaws! So as I sit here and wait for the package to arrive, I find myself wondering what my initial reaction will be. Through the magic of writing over several days, we'll now jump forward to where I actually have the device, although my waiting self still is upset that tomorrow is so far away! <PAGEBREAK> First Impressions I received the device on a Friday afternoon - after the staff at MobilePlanet / Expansys were exceptionally responsive to make sure that the promised delivery date was fulfilled. (I've had issues with Expansys before, and I'm happy to report that my experience with them this time around more than made up for some of the oddities and availability problems that I have had in the past). <img src=http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/westfall/westfall-tytn2review-boxtop.jpg> Figure 1: The black packaging, looking very svelte. First impression of the device and HTC's new branding was "Wow, someone at HTC bought an iPod!" The box that the device came in, as well as the packaging in the box, made it appear that I was opening up something special, not just any old device. In comparison to the packaging I'm used to, such as that of the T-Mobile Dash, which isn't at all interesting, or the Treo 750v's packaging that's more like unpacking a tightly packed ship than opening a device, the nice packaging made me feel good about my rather expensive purchase! <img src=http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/westfall/westfall-tytn2review-boxinside.jpg> Figure 2: Lift the magnetic flap and see the TyTN II, presented nicely amidst icons of productivity. In addition to the device, the retail packaging contains a nice belt case, headphones, wall charger, USB cable, getting started and software CDs, printed manual, screen protector, and a variety of cards & inserts. I was pleased to see that the shipped battery had a pretty good charge on it, so I fired up the device and used it the rest of the day. A few things struck me right off the bat. For starters, the scroll wheel and power button locations confused me. Was this device meant to be used by a right hander or left hander? In the end, I think it's supposed to be good for mixed-handed sorts! I could use both the wheel and the power button in either hand, but I had a large degree of difficulty finding the power button when pulling the device out of its case or my pocket. I kept thinking the button should be lower, or more toward the back of the device than it was. The scroll wheel, while very nice to use, seemed to require a bit too much force to push in, but that may be just my fingers on it. In any event, I was amazed at the plethora of ways you can navigate the device. HTC built in some TouchFLO software in the TyTN II, so you can use a finger to drag the screen up/down and use HTC's home plugin. The device also has the usual D-pad, a scroll wheel, and keys on the keyboard to navigate around. No problems finding a way to navigate! I've used a bunch of Pocket PCs and other devices, and must say this one has some ergonomic pluses despite its small size. <img src=http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/westfall/westfall-tytn2review-compare.jpg> Figure 3: TyTN II & Friends. (i-Mate JASJAR, Treo 750v, i-Mate K-JAM, TyTN II, iPAQ 6915, T-Mobile Dash, 5G iPod Video (60 GB)). HTC, in addition to making navigation easy with hardware, also included a nice homescreen plugin that provides a unified plugin to show a variety of information, with different tabs as well. However, for some reason I didn't find this all that valuable. It took up way too much space, and didn't do anything I really wanted on my Today screen. <img src=http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/westfall/westfall-tytn2review-todayscreen.png> Figure 4: The HTC plugin and Today layout. I switched it off and installed a favorite app of mine, <a href="http://software.pocketpcthoughts.com/product.asp?id=1848">PhoneAlarm</a> [Affiliate], and found a skin for it that looks amazingly like HTC's plugin (no coincidence I'm sure!). PhoneAlarm, unlike the HTC plugin, has functionality I want and as such, I've replaced my HTC plugin with PhoneAlarm's clone. If HTC's plugin had built-in flexible profiles like those of PhoneAlarm's, I probably would have given it more than the day or so I gave it. <img src=http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/westfall/westfall-tytn2review-todayscreen2.png> Figure 5: PhoneAlarm Clone! Much more functional. Finally, an initial impression I had within my first 24 hours with the device was the amount of work that has gone into the TyTN series as a whole that wasn't present in my last slider, the i-Mate K-JAM (HTC's Wizard). It had no scroll wheel, no spring loaded slider, a slow processor, and a color scheme and overall fashion value of a crumpled up paper bag! If you never used a TyTN / 8525 / Hermes / Jasjam / whateveryoucallit, and are thinking of replacing a Wizard, you'll be nicely surprised with the TyTN II. <PAGEBREAK> Benchmarks & Stability In a rare move for me, I actually ran the benchmarks on the device within 24 hours of receiving it. I did this partly because I knew I'd procrastinate, and partly because I was really eager to see how this thing would stack up. For the comparison, I chose the Cingular 8125 & 8525 (the first two generations of this type of device, known by their code-names as the Wizard and the Hermes, respectively; AT&T's model number for the TyTN II will be the 8925), the PPC 6700 from Sprint (wwas also a slider style, known as the HTC Apache) and the i-Mate JasJAR (to get a comparison of a first-generation WM 5 device and a first-generation WM 6 device). Let's start with the CPU index. <img src=http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/westfall/westfall-tytn2review-cpuindex.png> Figure 6: The CPU Index. As you can see, the JasJAR still beats the sliders in the CPU raw-power category. This is probably to be expected as its processor is more optimized for speed than other concerns (battery life). What many slider-style users will find interesting here is that the faster processor in the TyTN II far out performs first-generation sliders (e.g. the Wizard) and does fairly well against the second-generation (8525). I would have liked to see it pull away more so from the 8525, however an improvement is still an improvement. <img src=http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/westfall/westfall-tytn2review-fsindex.png> Figure 7: The Filesystem Index. Well, all that processing power is nice, but if you can't pull the files off the ROM fast enough, you're still getting pokey device performance. The file system index shows that the TyTN II out performs the older competition nicely, with nearly 30 point gains over the nearest competitors. The Wizard, not suprisingly, is far behind. As I know many Wizard owners elected to skip the Hermes series (8525) and wait for the third-generatio. I can assure them that they will not be unhappy with the changes HTC has made. <img src=http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/westfall/westfall-tytn2review-graphicsindex.png> Figure 8: The Graphics Index. Graphics can really make or break a user experience. When I reviewed the iPAQ 6915 last year, the graphics index alone (6457.6) made the device seem to fly past performance of my other units (in actuality, it was an illusion, the device, under complex calculations, was still quite slow). The TyTN II may not match the iPAQ, but it does trump the competition here. It's interesting to note that the Wizard had slightly faster graphics than the Hermes, with the Kaiser now jumping back up in graphics performance. <img src=http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/westfall/westfall-tytn2review-benchmark.png> Figure 9: The Benchmark index. Finally, in what really isn't a surprise given the graphs above, Spb Benchmark gives the TyTN II the victory. As far as performance goes, you can't argue that HTC has really decided to beef up the TyTN II! But good performance doesn't do much if the device is unstable. This was the plight of many a previous device - my iPAQ 6315 was so flakey, I had to schedule a soft-reset each morning to keep it operational - granted that device had a whole list of problems beyond the scope of this review. To this day, CSRs at T-Mobile choke when they see that I had my 6315 exchanged 6 times in 10 months.... I've read early reviews of the TyTN II that seem to indicate that the individuals reviewing the unit have suffered no stability issues, which is something I wish I could say. Now to be fair, the 2 - 3 times that the TyTN has locked up on me in the past 24 hours have probably been during operations that I wouldn't expect it to remain peppy through. In one circumstance, I was taking a photo while on a telephone call using a Bluetooth headset. The device was fine through that - it was when I hung up the phone call and wanted to send the photo that the device hung. The device also required a jab to the reset hole (which is probably the worst reset hole I've ever seen on a device - it offers no tactile feedback when you press the reset button - I felt like I was just jamming my stylus into a tight opening and not hitting anything every time I've reset it) when I had Pharos Ostia running in the background using the integrated GPS, had the camera application running in the background, and tried to rapidly open and close several applets at once. Probably, again, not usual use! Overall, when I'm not trying to do 5,000 things simultaneously with this thing, it's been responsive and peppy. A few times I've hit the "start" key and have not had the menu open, however tapping on the start button seems to do the trick. I've since seen others report this occurring after the device has made a phone call AND has a password enabled. I figure this is probably a bug that will be corrected in the first ROM revision, otherwise it may become quite annoying. My final verdict, benchmark & stability-wise? Well, it's certainly faster than any of my other devices, and its stability is on par with the Treo 750v & T-Mobile Dash I've used for the past few months, if not more stable. I don't see any deal breakers with stability, and I see a for-sure deal maker with the benchmark performance! <PAGEBREAK> Wireless Capabilities The TyTN II packs Bluetooth (2.0) and WiFi (802.11 b/g), which are expected (unless you're Palm) in any modern device. The Bluetooth side supports a variety of profiles, including Advanced Audio Distribution Protocol (A2DP), Bluetooth Personal Area Network (PAN), and a number of functions such as remote SIM access, printing over Bluetooth, and (of course) the hands-free profile. <img src=http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/westfall/westfall-tytn2review-commgr.png> Figure 10: The snazzy new Communications Manager program, complete with razor sharp look! The WiFi radio powered on as expected and quickly found my 802.11g access point. I did find that, while it associated very quickly, it took the unit a few seconds longer than I expected to switch over to using WiFi for data rather than my EDGE data connection. However I'm not complaining, the radio performed well and associated quickly from the opposite end of my house (a feat a few cards have found taxing in the past). WiFi on the TyTN II also supports the LEAP protocol (a good thing as less and less devices are supporting it due to security reasons - little help to those of us whose organizations have sunk big bucks into a LEAP architecture!). <img src=http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/westfall/westfall-tytn2review-wifi.png> Figure 11: The HTC WiFi control program (a nice upgrade to the standard Windows Mobile applet that is still present but thankfully not required use!). GPS I tested out the GPS on this device with my own copy of Pharos Ostia as well as a copy of Delorme that I picked up at the local Target. Both worked flawlessly with the included GPS. If you've never had a device with GPS built in, you'll find that you don't really know it's even there as Windows Mobile will activate it or deactivate it automatically depending on whether a piece of software requests it. Both Ostia and Delorme simply probed the COM ports on my device, and found the GPS. HTC was nice enough to include a taster version of Tomtom Navigator 6, which will allow you to download one map and use it with the full version of the software. A good option for those of you who don't have a preferred GPS package. For what it's worth, the $40 Delorme package I picked up on a whim is actually pretty nice for my purposes - perhaps I'll write a full review of it at a later time. The TyTN II provides QuickGPS software and service that allows you to download a "hints" file to give the GPS some pointers on where to look in the sky to lock on quickly. The software file expires eventually, however, the application downloads new versions automatically, a nice touch and similar to the ability that the HP iPAQ 6915 provides to get quicker locks. Finally, one advantage that isn't immediately apparent about having built-in GPS, besides the fact that you don't have to carry around an external GPS receiver and may be more tempted to bust out GPS to find your way around rather than aimlessly drive a bit in a foreign city, is the possibilities it provides. With some rather nice software, such as Franson's GPSGate, you can use your TyTN II as a Bluetooth GPS receiver, or share the GPS signal with a laptop via Bluetooth while still using the GPS on the device. If you're on the fence between a lower-priced Pocket PC Phone plus a Bluetooth GPS receiver for navigation, I'd argue that having both in one device will be more beneficial by far. After all, if you ever upgrade the phone you can still use the device as a GPS receiver without the phone functionality! <PAGEBREAK> The Camera One of the most interesting things about the TyTN II is the inclusion of a 3 megapixel camera, a nice jump over the 2 megapixel cameras that HTC had previously used (the Sprint Mogul & T-Mobile Wing both include a 2 MP camera). It appears that HTC was really eager to get users to understand that the camera in the TyTN II was not just for show as it had been in previous versions. First they built in an autofocus component and designed the shutter key to have two levels of press (press half-way for focus, press all the way for shutter). This is similar to most digital camera designs, and it's evident that HTC felt that a 3 MP camera warranted a bit more than a standard button. The camera software is also revamped from earlier Pocket PC camera software (it's actually very similar to the camera software on the T-Mobile Dash), including numerous useful (white balance), novelty (Sepia & negative view options), and oddly un-editable (filename prefix) features. While the camera on the back may be 3 MP, the front-facing camera for video conferencing is only 640x480 resolution (of course, this was the resolution just 4 years back on the XDA II devices). The camera software, however, does let you specify the front camera for picture taking, so for an impromptu self-photo at low resolution, it's not bad. It would probably be great for contact pictures! So how do the pictures look? Well, below are a series of example shots I grabbed. Click on any picture to see the full, unedited 3 MP version. <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/westfall/westfall-tytn2review-samplepic1-full.jpg"><img src=http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/westfall/westfall-tytn2review-samplepic1-thumb.jpg></a> Figure 12: People waiting for a free lunch! Bright conditions. <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/westfall/westfall-tytn2review-samplepic2-full.jpg"><img src=http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/westfall/westfall-tytn2review-samplepic2-thumb.jpg></a> Figure 13: A wonderful example of University of Toledo architecture. Sun to the back of the image. <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/westfall/westfall-tytn2review-samplepic3-full.jpg"><img src=http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/westfall/westfall-tytn2review-samplepic3-thumb.jpg></a> Figure 14: My grim reaper that hangs outside my office. Under overhead fluorescent lighting. Note that the wall should be white, and I could have adjusted the white balance on the phone, however I wanted to give unaltered photos as if you had shot them quickly. <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/westfall/westfall-tytn2review-samplepic4-full.jpg"><img src=http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/westfall/westfall-tytn2review-samplepic4-thumb.jpg></a> Figure 15: A cat, unhappy that its owner is soon to wake and leave the bed. Natural light from the left. <PAGEBREAK> Conclusions After using the TyTN II for a few days, I've decided that this one is a keeper. Despite some bugs that need to be worked out in the ROM and a bit of slowness while more than one application is running (e.g. GPS + Windows Media Player), the device performs like a champ. You simply cannot beat having all of the features we've seen in the Windows Mobile world, with the exception of a VGA screen (which, in my opinion, would have added too much weight and bulk to the product), in one product. The most astonishing thing to me is that I cannot really find something substantial here that would cause me to ditch this phone for an upgrade, and for the first time I see myself possibly using the same phone for a prolonged period of time (translation = the TyTN II will be in heavy rotation along with its new friends, my Treo 750v and my Dash). If you purchase a TyTN II, I am 99% sure you won't be upset with your purchase, despite its fairly high price tag! Note: Just to avoid confusion, the device I reviewed was one that I purchased from Expansys, not a review unit, hence my references to keeping it! 2 Weeks later and I don't regret the purchase at all! :) Jon Westfall is a psychologist computer guru who lives and works in northern Ohio with his wife & cat. In his spare time he attempts to find a dissertation idea and update his website, <a href="http://jonwestfall.com">JonWestfall.Com</a>.

dave

09-20-2007, 05:38 PM

battery life? specifically how does it compare to the 8525 (or comparable) battery performance...

Jon Westfall

09-20-2007, 06:02 PM

battery life? specifically how does it compare to the 8525 (or comparable) battery performance...

I've never used an 8525, however I'd say the battery is comparable (or perhaps a bit better) than that on my Wizard. If I pull it off at 7:30 in the morning, by around 11:30 PM I'm left with about 30% battery, and that's with push email enabled, light browsing, email triage, and listening to music for around 30 minutes through A2DP.

I always charge nightly (Which I recommend, because, hey - what else will you do with the device while you sleep?), and have never run out of power with the TyTN II

Hosidax

09-20-2007, 06:29 PM

Thanks for the review. I want this puppy. :)

But what about 3g in the US? You mentioned EDGE, but...

Is 3g still stalled in the courts here? Are we doomed...?

aaakkk!

DaleReeck

09-20-2007, 06:40 PM

Thanks for the review. I want this puppy. :)

But what about 3g in the US? You mentioned EDGE, but...

Is 3g still stalled in the courts here? Are we doomed...?

aaakkk!

Last I heard, the Qualcomm chip ban to the US was temporarily lifted.

Jon Westfall

09-20-2007, 06:57 PM

Thanks for the review. I want this puppy. :)

But what about 3g in the US? You mentioned EDGE, but...

Is 3g still stalled in the courts here? Are we doomed...?

aaakkk!

There are some very interesting rumors regarding 3G UMTS and T-Mobile floating around the net the last few days. An FCC filing for the Kaiser lists it as using the 1700 band for UMTS for japan. However the manual on file speaks about T-Mobile's My favs system which is only on T-Mobile USA. So potentially if T-Mo USA launches a 1700 mhz UMTS network (Which we've only seen on paper so far), the Kaiser may be their 3G Pocket PC Offering. Mostly rumors, but makes for interesting discussion!

Jason Dunn

09-20-2007, 07:02 PM

Great review Jon! Looks like a nice device...

Mountain343

09-20-2007, 07:20 PM

Hmmmm so close.. yet.. so far. No 3G and no CF slot still mean I'm stuck using two devices instead of an all in one solution. Oh how nice it'd be to have a device with a screen the size of my hp2215 and SD and CF slots, Bluetooth with stereo profiles (that actually works), 3G broadband, GPS, WiFi, a fast processor that doesn't bog down running Opera and PocketLoupe at the same time (my 2215 doesnt, but the mogul does), and a strong IR transmitter.

I don't care if I have to carry a brick, thats why I have a BT headset!

In 2004 I bought a 2215 for 300 bucks and with the freebee nextel phone I got a great PDA with dual slots, GPS, Wifi with a 20 dollar CF card, and a screen size that I felt was a tad small but liveable.

In 2009 to upgrade it looks like I'll have to buy another standalone PDA for about 4 to 500, plus a 3G phone for about 50 to 100, plus a BT GPS for another 50 to 100.

Somethings wrong with that picture if you ask me.

Jon Westfall

09-20-2007, 07:24 PM

Hmmmm so close.. yet.. so far. No 3G and no CF

Well, it has 3G capabilities, just not in the US! As far as the CF slot goes - I doubt you'll see another new device with a CF slot. Ever.

DaleReeck

09-20-2007, 07:27 PM

Hmmmm so close.. yet.. so far. No 3G and no CF slot

I doubt you will see a PDA with a CF slot again. But AT&T is releasing their version of the above device on Sep 25th-ish from what I heard. I doubt they would release a device like this without 3G support (unless it is an iPhone ;) )

Jon Westfall

09-20-2007, 07:27 PM

Great review Jon!

It was the Grim Reaper picture that made the review great, wasn't it? :)

I've been using the TyTN II now as my regular phone for almost 2 weeks, and have no real desire to use any other device in my stable!

jeasher

09-20-2007, 07:46 PM

Why won't 3G work on the Tytn II in the U.S.? Does ATT use 3G on a different frequency?

Mountain343

09-20-2007, 07:47 PM

Thankfully the new IPAQ has a CF slot in it, but I have to agree it is definetly going the way of the dodo. Would it be to much to ask then that they give us USB Host capabilities then so I can use my own freaking card reader regardless of format?

I know others have included that in the past and it just seems like it'd be the perfect compromise. If space, battery, whatever doesn't permit them to add certain things, then give us USB host and let us add them ourselves!

lorettaboy

09-20-2007, 07:52 PM

Can you clarify the 3G aspect of this device for us a bit. I am using a HTC TYTN in Canada now, on Rogers 3G network, so why wouldn't the TYTN II work the same way?

Jon Westfall

09-20-2007, 08:01 PM

Can you clarify the 3G aspect of this device for us a bit. I am using a HTC TYTN in Canada now, on Rogers 3G network, so why wouldn't the TYTN II work the same way?

The TyTN II supports 850/1900/2100 UMTS. If you have a carrier that supports UMTS / HSDPA on those frequencies, you're good to go for 3G (Rogers, AT&T). However T-Mobile has licensed the 1700 frequency, so T-Mo users are out of luck as of now. Of course T-Mobile users in general are out of luck when it comes to 3G... :roll:

klanum

09-20-2007, 08:19 PM

3waygeek

09-20-2007, 08:20 PM

Why won't 3G work on the Tytn II in the U.S.? Does ATT use 3G on a different frequency?
AT&T's 3G network does work on the Tytn II -- I just tried it. I don't have a data plan, so I pay $0.01 per KB. Got a HSDPA connection of unknown speed -- didn't want to do a speed test because of the expense.

The current Tytn II will not work on T-Mobile's 3G network -- many of the US sellers will tell you that up front. As I understand it, T-Mob's 3G net uses the 1700 MHz band, which this version of the Tytn II doesn't support. Apparently there is or will be a Tytn II version that will support 1700 MHz -- there have been a couple postings over at BoyGeniusReport citing FCC documents as to the possibility of 1700 MHz support.

Jon Westfall

09-20-2007, 08:29 PM

Good timing on this excellent article! I have a JasJar/Universal and contemplating a move to the HTC Advantage X7501 or ATT 8925/Kaiser at the end of the month. Couple questions:

1. How does the screens compare on the Jasjar and the Kaiser? Really tell a difference? Seems the faster screen may be the color aspect of VGA. Outside/Inside differences?

The JasJar probably has the prettiest screen I've ever seen on a device. however it does draw considerably slower than the screen on the TyTN II. The Jasjar has the sharper screen and higher resolution, while the TyTN II has substantially better speed. They both respond about the same to screen taps, although if one is more sensitive than the other, I'd say the TyTN II is just a bit better at recognizing my tapping, especially on the dialer screen (Although this might just be that the processor is more responsive to dialing numbers than the jasjar's was). Overall the screens are about equal averaging their strengths and weaknesses.

2. Besides a GPS, any other things you like about the JasJar that the Kaiser didn't have and vice versa? Lighted keyboard?

The TyTN II has a back-lighted keyboard just like the JasJar (Just like the JasJar you sometimes have to hold your finger over the sensor in low light conditions to get the backlight to kick in (The device thinks there is enough light...). The keyboard on the Jasjar was easier for me to use with my larger hands, however the TyTN II keyboard is fairly easy to get used to. Honestly I can't think of anything else I really like about the jasjar that the TyTN II doesn't have other than in the specific case of plane travel. When I Fly I like to take my JasJar to compose emails on and play games.

Thankfully with the re-emergence of Bluetooth DUN profile in the TyTN II, I was able to easily pair my Jasjar up to the Tytn and get a data connection to the jasjar. They do make a nice pair!

I'm looking for the SPB results now on the Advantage to see how it stacks up with your Kaiser test results. I'll pass those along as I find them.

Thanks,
Kent

It would be nice to see those comparisons. I don't know of anyone with an SPB XML file for the Advantage, so if you find just the raw results, feel free to contact me and I'll run them against my TyTN II results.

klanum

09-20-2007, 08:49 PM

Jon,

Thanks for the quick response. The only SPB benchmarks for the X7501 HTC Advantage I found were on smartdevicecentral.com with the following comparison with your numbers:

X7501 Kaiser Universal

CPU 2321 1549.6 1848.2

File Sys 174 165.4 138.8

Graphics 476 3521 217.3

Bench Idx 390 399.7 285.7

If I copied this right, it looks like the Kaiser is in the ballpark with the X7501 except for the larger size/screen with VGA and couple other features. I'm looking for more SPB benchmarks to see if they are comparable with those found. Interested to see what you hear from someone too!

Again, thanks as I'm sure I'll have more questions but you've covered 99% of them!

cmw

09-20-2007, 09:02 PM

Great review! It's enough to make me switch back to AT&T!

Quick question about application startup time, especially for the camera? Of course you know that the Wizard is terrible for camera use (I've got the Tmo MDA)... you never can catch a kodak moment, and the camera pictures are horrible, besides. The Kaiser looks orders of magnitude better!

Thanks...
cmw

freddiemac

09-20-2007, 09:11 PM

What about the weight? I am very leery of that 190g! How "pocketable" is it? I don't use a holster. My device sits in my pants pocket or my inside suit pocket. Thoughts?

Jon Westfall

09-20-2007, 09:53 PM

Jon Westfall

09-20-2007, 09:55 PM

What about the weight? I am very leery of that 190g! How "pocketable" is it? I don't use a holster. My device sits in my pants pocket or my inside suit pocket. Thoughts?

I put mine in a pants pocket most of the time, and haven't felt it weighing me down. It's pretty pocketable, in my opinion.

griffin911

09-20-2007, 10:39 PM

I have been using mine for over a week on TMobile. I am amazed at how fast and stable this phone is.

For all those asking about battery life. I have direct push (as it arrives) enabled for my corporate mail, random web browsing, about an hour of e-book reading and at least 60-90 minutes of talk time per day.

By 10:30 at night I am down to usually 15% battery and I charge every night. Would I like a bigger battery? Sure, but all the positives more than make up for this now. Besides soon there will be a charging cradle I can set up on my desk.

klanum

09-21-2007, 03:32 AM

In case you are interested in the size of the Kaiser/TyTn II, X7501 Advantage and the Universal/JasJar, here's a link to the www.sizeasy.com website for comparson. I didn't realize that my JasJar was that much of a brick!

http://www.sizeasy.com/page/size_comparison/5501-HTC-X7501-vs-HTC-Universal-vs-HTC-Kaiser

srmz

09-21-2007, 04:01 AM

Rainman1976

09-21-2007, 04:16 AM

Hmmmm so close.. yet.. so far. No 3G and no CF

Well, it has 3G capabilities, just not in the US! As far as the CF slot goes - I doubt you'll see another new device with a CF slot. Ever.

What do you mean no 3G capabilities in the U.S.? AT&T is using UMTS/HSDPA. I have the AT&T 8525 (HTC TyTN) and have been getting 3G service. I get speeds up to 1 MB/Sec. I average about 800 KB/Sec.

Jon Westfall

09-21-2007, 04:21 AM

Jon Westfall

09-21-2007, 04:22 AM

You mention that you replaced the HTC today plug in with PhoneAlarm. I too love PhoneAlarm and tried to do exactly the same with my HTC Touch which did not work out as the device would not wake up once switched off. Bruce is working on a fix for the next release of phonealarm.

Just wondering that the minor stability issues you said you had were attributable to phonealarm.

Regards

It may be because of that, I'm not sure. It's not enough for me to ditch PA for my needs - I can deal with the daily soft-reset (Heck, been doing it for years already... :roll: )

adamz

09-21-2007, 04:39 AM

It's odd seeing "May be difficult to find power button at first!" as one of your cons on the first page without reading through. It's not like the power button is located underneath the battery (like some MicroSD slots) or doesn't have a label. :)
Now that I think of it, maybe I should've listed "Difficult to find battery in packaging" as a con in my review (http://www.pocketnow.com/index.php?a=portal_detail&t=reviews&id=988). Who would think to look inside the belt pouch case? Ha!

Jon Westfall

09-21-2007, 04:46 AM

It's odd seeing "May be difficult to find power button at first!" as one of your cons on the first page without reading through.

It's actually quite a major con so far - I'm still unable to reliably locate that bugger without glancing down. Always hit the wrong spot. Never had this problem before - perhaps using the Dash and the Treo 750 has made me Power Button Impaired!

As for the "reading through" portion - it did intrigue you to continue, right? Subtle marketing at its best. :D

Jason Lee

09-21-2007, 07:13 AM

I've had mine for almost two weeks now and it is great! The only weirdness I had was that password lock bug but now that I understand what it is doing all is good.

One note about the screen it is not transflective. It has the best color I have ever seen on a pocket pc. Though since it is not transflective you will ned to turn th backlight up most or all of the way to see the screen in direct sunlight (like a laptop screen)

The colors are so bright and rich! So trade offs. :)

the built in gps work very well. I had iguidance 3. lets just say that it has a few issues with wm6. heheh.. the taster version of tomtom worked great though do I went ahead and ordered the noth america maps dvd from amazon. just got it tonight and got the map loaded to my card.

The camera is amazing. It has a program calle WorldCard Mobile. It uses the camera to take pictures of business cards then will actually OCR the image and let you add the person to your contacts! It is truly amazing. It is the "trick" I show everyone. :lol:
Plus the camera will tak pictures in lighting that my 8125 would not.

The device feels very solid. I am very happy with it.

:D

(posting this from it actually)

Jon Westfall

09-21-2007, 12:56 PM

The camera is amazing. It has a program calle WorldCard Mobile. It uses the camera to take pictures of business cards then will actually OCR the image and let you add the person to your contacts!

I messed around with WorldCard using my own business card, which has a black background and white text, and it seemed to have difficulty with that. I'd assume that with a normal card with colored ink on white, it would be what the kids call "the bomb"

Underwater Mike

09-21-2007, 01:48 PM

I am on my third 8125 (charging circuitry keeps crapping out) and would love to try this if I could get away from ATT. Their coverage in my area -- northern VA -- just blows. I've been thinking about moving to Verizon, but their device selection and data options don't seem too good.

For all you guys who are getting this device, do you have handset insurance on it? If so, through whom? ATT stopped offering coverage on PDA phones, so I am totally worried about something happening to a $600 device.

hamishmacdonald

09-21-2007, 02:59 PM

I'm tempted. Much as I'm enjoying my HTC Touch (except when it's in for repair, like again this week, due to faulty screens), I am finding that the memory is awfully limiting. Even with most of my applications installed on MicroSD, I keep running into situations where the camera doesn't want to open without closing other programs (and even then it sometimes isn't happy with the amount of available RAM).

And HSDPA over EDGE, plus GPS would be nice.

The deal-breaker for me is the keyboard. I really don't want one, and it adds so much bulk to the device. If I'm doing any serious typing, I'm going to use my Stowaway.

A while back I read about the rumoured HTC Polaris, which sounds like everything I want: all the radio and memory benefits of the Kaiser, but in a slim form factor. And possibly with a 3.5" VGA screen, though it's also described in other places as having a 2.8" QVGA. I haven't found going back to a smaller QVGA screen as constricting as I'd expected, but it would sure be nice to get that real estate back.

The Polaris is supposed to be announced in October. I guess I'll have to be patient. But, like the majority of the crowd on here I suspect, I have no patience!

klanum

09-21-2007, 03:42 PM

The Polaris is supposed to be announced in October. I guess I'll have to be patient. But, like the majority of the crowd on here I suspect, I have no patience!

Great! Now you've had to add one more to my list...the insanity of selecting the right device. When will it end! 8O

sgt-spam

09-22-2007, 02:14 PM

I've been carrying a PDA for a while. My most recent PDA was an iPAQ hx4700, which I absolutely loved! The VGA screen is stunning, and the 128MB RAM upgrade was a good move IMHO. At times (in retrospect, most times) it was a bit pokey on WM5 - even after a series of tweaks.

My PDA would frequently get tethered to my ATT cell phone (most recently an A707) for data. I never felt like I was getting the speeds I should, even in 3G areas.

I spent some time looking at the devices I usually buy for my users (I'm the IT department for my company), and decided they just weren't quite right. Additionally, almost all my users are Verizon, and I prefer ATT.

After testing out a Wizard and TyTN, I decided to pick up the TyTN II when it was available. It would be my first converged device (I've been die-hard AGAINST doing this).

I was thrilled with the packaging, as has been pointed out in most reviews I have seen. HTC took time to even make the packaging look nice.

From a specification standpoint, this device has everything I want except a VGA screen. I'm finding after a few weeks of usage that the VGA issue is a non-issue.

From a usage standpoint, I agree with the power button comment. It is sometimes difficult for me to find the power button without looking at the device. I find, at times, that I'm sliding open the keyboard instead of waking the TyTN II up.

I also don't care for the display / keypad timeout. Being used to a normal phone, it's hard for me to activate the display, hit the soft key to turn the keypad back on, and then dial the numbers I need to delete a message or answer prompts, etc. It would be cool, if when on a call, the display would stay on and keypad be in the foreground.

I don't care for the way the microSD slot doesn't close all the way when a card is inserted. The left side closes flush, but the right does not.

I've read complaints that the camera button is in the wrong spot, or that the keyboard slides the wrong way, but I don't find those things obtuse at all. Maybe that's because this is my first device of this kind.

I LOVE the business card recognition and have been using it regularly.

As far as operation with my carrier, ATT, this thing is fantastic. My data speeds (H showing in reception area, two bars) has been between 580 and 625kbps using dslreports.com/mspeed. The MEdia Net pages work great using the device's automatic configuration tool, and voice quality / reception has been phenomenal.

I also like that the device has voice speed dials - something ATT has removed from it's new phones in lieu of a paid service.

I too ditched the HTC plug-in and chose to use the Spb products. A great upgrade IMHO. Phone Suite with Mobile Shell gives me the Today and wake-up screens I want, and when coupled with Pocket Plus, Diary, and Weather, I'm all set!

I had trouble with the GPS initially. Indoor reception, IMHO, is poor. My office has large windows, and even when in the car it seemed to take a while to pick up a signal. The GPS works great with Google Maps Mobile, and that's all I need since my Garmin device works so well in the car. I did not load the TomTom software / maps because of the Garmin.

[this is getting kind of random, isn't it?]

I'm trying to get familiar with the scroll wheel. It's 'new' for me. I do feel you have to push it pretty hard to get it to recognize. The camera is slow, IMHO, but the images are nice. Charging is new for me too, almost daily. The fact that my WiFi connection doesn't disconnect my 3G data connection, or at least get used in place of it, bothers me a little. It's a pain to have to disable 3G data manually, but I'll get over that.

To summarize, because I feel like most of my comments are negative, I'm ABSOLUTELY THRILLED with my TyTN II. I'm glad I bought it outside of ATT, too. I'm not glad I bought the accessory pack from mobileplanet.com, since everything I needed was included in the original box (except a car charger and microSD card), but that's my fault. This thing ROCKS and totally does everything I need it to do!

hamishmacdonald

09-22-2007, 03:06 PM

Thanks for that, 'Sgt Spam'. It's really helpful to hear someone's practical experiences in daily-use situations like you've provided.

Most reviews are heavily skewed by the heady fog of "Ooh, shiny shiny new thing!" That we even have "unboxing" reviews now underscores how etherised we can get by the consumer p*rn aspect of having these devices as a critical part of our daily lives -- myself included.

So thanks for your contribution.

Curiosity

09-22-2007, 03:25 PM

Thanks for the reviews. The power button thing reminds me of my 8125. The case I have covers the power button so I have a hard time reaching it. I don't want all the buttons to turn on the device, so I use my bluetooth headset to turn on my phone from the case.

I had read on XDA Developers forum that the bluetooth sound quality may be a bit lacking. It doesn't appear universal however. How have conversations been on the bluetooth? I have used a Motorola H700 and Plantronics Voyager 510. Each time, I have had a number of people have difficulty with the voice cutting out on them (not a by product of volume) intermittently with my 8125. I don't have another bluetooth phone, so I can't tell if it is a phone thing or headset thing.

I also like a little bit of gaming for diversion and I'm wondering how button placement affects gaming in portrait and landscape modes.

Finally, how does one handle phone calls when operating the GPS? I would imagine that if a call came in while you are trying to find a crucial point to make a turn, the ringer may cut off the voice directions.

Thanks for the input.

adamz

09-22-2007, 03:39 PM

I also don't care for the display / keypad timeout. Being used to a normal phone, it's hard for me to activate the display, hit the soft key to turn the keypad back on, and then dial the numbers I need to delete a message or answer prompts, etc. It would be cool, if when on a call, the display would stay on and keypad be in the foreground.

The TyTN II has a very short display time out when on a call.
To fix that, see:
http://www.pocketnow.com/index.php?a=portal_detail&t=news&id=4467

Jon Westfall

09-22-2007, 08:53 PM

I had read on XDA Developers forum that the bluetooth sound quality may be a bit lacking. It doesn't appear universal however....I'm wondering how button placement affects gaming in portrait and landscape modes...how does one handle phone calls when operating the GPS?

Well, I've used mine with a Jabra BT8010 now for the past few weeks and haven't had any complaints about sound quality either hearing my party or my party hearing me. I also recently got a Altec Lansing T515 speaker set that has a Bluetooth receiver, and sound comes through it just fine as well. No bluetooth problems here, however in the past I've noticed that my Jabras have been very clear compared to other bluetooth headsets I've heard (Hence my reason for buying only Jabra! I've used a 250, BT800, and now the 8010s).

The only games I've played so far have been Handmark Monopoly and Mastersoft Sudoku 2. No problems with either, although I'd never recommend playing games in landscape mode (I guess there have to be games that look good in landscape, but I don't play any of them). The buttons in the middle (the IE button and mail button) can be harder to press if you have larger hands, so that may impair gaming.

In the past whenever I've received a call while using GPS, it's simply popped up and once I answer I can usually switch back to my GPS app fairly easily. I suppose there is that possibility that you'll get a call right at that crucial turn - and I'm not sure what takes precedence in that case. Anyone know?

sgt-spam

09-22-2007, 09:12 PM

I use a Jabra BT500v with the TyTN II, and my only 'complaint' is that the volume is a bit low at times.

With my Moto handsets, I could modify the gain table file to get the BT volume louder. I haven't looked at how to accomplish that with my new phone.

kzemach

09-22-2007, 09:37 PM

Question:

I have a TyTn (which I'm duly unimpressed with BTW) but have invested in two car-cradles for charging and holding the device for GPS nav while driving. Is the USB port and form factor of the TyTn II going to allow for use of these two cradle investments?

Thanks,

Ken

sgt-spam

09-22-2007, 09:43 PM

I believe so.

I have a Danish QTEK 9-something that's the same device, and while the connector looks different, the mini-USB plug / cable works fine.

It's pretty beat up, and I'm actually trying to get it flashed to English (among other things) using the XDA-dev site.

Jon Westfall

09-22-2007, 09:45 PM

The connectors are the same, and the form factor is similar. Tight-fitting things, such as cases, will not work between the TyTN and TyTN II, however depending on how your cradle works, it may fit in there or be slightly askew.

SrWilliams

09-22-2007, 11:00 PM

For those who have had this phone for a few days please address this most basic question.

Although the phone has a myriad of advanced features, people fail to focus on the most basic phone application, most particularly the phone dialing feature. Since the phone does not have an actual dialpad, how difficult is it to dial a phone number without using contacts or voicedial. Is the dial buttons on the screen large enought to dial with your finger without much trouble.

Are there larger dial screens out there that you can purchase from a third party.

Besides being able to dial a phone number using the screen, how is the speakerphone and earphone. Are they loud enough to hear callers during calls. Please definetly let me know about this regarding the speakerphone (not for music). Some reviews say it is not loud while others say it is loud and clear. Is the speakerphone useable for phone calls. One of the HTC phones I tried (I believe the 710) had a booming speakerphone that was great. I hope the TynTn does also

Jon Westfall

09-22-2007, 11:48 PM

SrWilliams,

The dial pad is the same as any other recent HTC device - the keys are big enough to press with a finger, and have adaptive smart-dialing built in (e.g. tap the numbers that correspond with the first few letters of the contact name, and the list narrows down to the point you can just select the contact and press dial). The speakerphone has been quite loud in my testing (so i can lay it on my leg while driving and hear the person perfectly, and they can hear me). The TyTN II has solid phone functions, from everything I've seen in the last 2 weeks.

Jon.

SrWilliams

09-23-2007, 01:20 AM

Jon:

Thank you for taking the time to address my pointed inquiries about the phone functuality.

I am glad to hear about the loudness of the speakerphone. because that is a function I use often.

About the dialpad on the screen. Forgeting the uswe of contacts. For just straight dialing, you find no prejudice in not having a dedicated dial pad. I cannot reference any HTC phones as this will be my first. I am really concerned about being able to dial numbers straight out. I also have to dial alot of extensions to businesses and so I am hoping that you can do this with this phone and with voice command digit dialing functionality

SrWilliams

09-23-2007, 01:20 AM

Jon Westfall

09-23-2007, 02:03 AM

About the dialpad on the screen. Forgeting the uswe of contacts. For just straight dialing, you find no prejudice in not having a dedicated dial pad. I cannot reference any HTC phones as this will be my first. I am really concerned about being able to dial numbers straight out. I also have to dial alot of extensions to businesses and so I am hoping that you can do this with this phone and with voice command digit dialing functionality

I've always been a bit leary of the touch keypads myself, however they've gotten increasingly more responsive as the devices have progressed. The TyTN II's is very easy for me to press with my bare finger. If you're concerned about tactile feel, there are programs out there that will cause the unit to vibrate for a half-second or so after each button press - that can be very helpful for first time touch-screen users.

SrWilliams

09-23-2007, 02:32 AM

Jon Westfall

09-23-2007, 03:01 AM

Jon references these tactile feel programs for touch screens. I did a google for these programs and all I got was scientific info on the emerging software.

Can someone direct me to a 3rd party vendor who I can purchase this spftware for the TynTn.

It is just a simple registry tweak, so you could do it yourself with a registry editor. Modaco has a mobidial.com (http://www.modaco.com/Registry-Tweaks-t7695.html>Thread</A>), although I'm not sure how well it works with the newest generation of devices.

Underwater Mike

09-23-2007, 04:58 PM

From the Mobidial site: "Due to incompatibility issues with the recent releases of Windows Mobile, mobiDial is not currently available for download."

Try the registry tweak.

Jon references these tactile feel programs for touch screens. I did a google for these programs and all I got was scientific info on the emerging software.

Can someone direct me to a 3rd party vendor who I can purchase this spftware for the TynTn.

It is just a simple registry tweak, so you could do it yourself with a registry editor. Modaco has a mobidial.com (http://www.modaco.com/Registry-Tweaks-t7695.html>Thread</A>), although I'm not sure how well it works with the newest generation of devices.

heavyduty

10-04-2007, 08:56 AM

clarence.chau

10-04-2007, 07:38 PM

Jon Westfall

10-04-2007, 08:01 PM

Jon,

You referenced the hw6915 in your review (which is my current device) so you are no doubt familiar with the significant lag when dialing and hanging up on a caller. How does the Kaiser perform in this area, especially compared with the iPaq?

Also, how would you rate it overall compared to the 6915? What are, in your opinion, the pros of the iPaq? I'm *this* close to buying the Kaiser but I want to be certain that it will be a noticeable and worthwhile upgrade.

Thanks

The Kaiser does significantly better in the hangup / dialing department over the 6915 (Although I suspect that a ROM upgrade would do the Kaiser wonders - sometimes it does hang waiting on phone operations). Overall I think the Kaiser is a much more polished product that the 6915. I still use my 6915 on occasion, however the keyboard on it (While functional) isn't half as nice as my Treo's or the Kaisers. WM 6 is probably the single biggest reason to upgrade, especially if you sync to an exchange 2007 server. Other than WM 6 and the keyboard upgrades, if the square screen on the iPAQ is getting you down, returning to landscape is a nice thing when going to a Kaiser.

So if I just had my 6915, would I upgrade to a kaiser? Probably, for the following:

1. More responsive / faster processor
2. Larger Screen / Keyboard
3. Historically better support than HP
4. Mini-USB connector (Ditch iPAQ connector cables!)
5. MUCH better camera.

However, don't look for any of the following:

1. Bluetooth / Wifi / GPS faster, better, stronger, etc.. - they compared about on par
2. Any new KILLER features in WM 6. Sure the improvements with Exchange 2007 are nice, but if I weren't on that platform, I'd be just as happy with WM 5.

heavyduty

10-04-2007, 08:52 PM

Thanks Jon, I appreciate the detailed answer. I'm much obliged :)

joelevi

02-27-2008, 01:43 AM

Expansys/Mobile Planet has this for $809.

If you're not above getting an unlocked AT&T version (aka "Tilt") eBay has some good deals:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=230225570659
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=200202401824
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220205046820

(I'm not affiliated with Expansys/Mobile Planet or the eBay auctions, just lending a helping hand.)

- www.JoeLevi.com