Desperate Times Make Desperate ROM Flashers

[Jon Westfall]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=319898' target='_blank'>http://forum.xda-developers.com/sho...ad.php?t=319898</a><br /><br /></div>A couple of days ago, a AT&amp;T/Cingular Windows Mobile 6 ROM appeared on XDA-Developers forums, and the frenzy began. The ROM File, which wasn't even packaged in an executable (as normal ROMs are), has probably been downloaded a few hundred times now (conservatively), been thrown on to MiniSD cards, and manually installed via the Treo's bootloader by individuals who have been foaming at the mouth since early June for the Treo Upgrade. Some have reported serious problems, while some report that the upgrade has gone amazingly well. Heck, even one person reported that they believed that this leaked ROM would prompt Palm and the OEMs to release their official ROMs this Tuesday! (Wishful thinking I suspect, someone who is just hoping to "will" the carriers into producing a real upgrade!)<br /><br />The problem here isn't that ROM leaks occur and are detrimental to the community (Which they very well may be). The problem is that a group of users, namely Treo 750 owners, has been baited for so long by Palm for a WM 6 upgrade (with pictures of it showing up early this year and an official announcement stating that their will be an upgrade coming several months back), that these 750 owners are <i>willing to jump as soon as ANYTHING WM 6 related comes along</i>! This ROM, which I suspect is actually an earlier beta (Not that close to the finished product as some may think) that now has found it's way to the hands of users, is seen by users as filling a void that their OEM should have filled months ago - and users are downloading a rather large file that may potentially destroy their devices just because they can't wait any longer for the slow OEMs and Palm to react. In a strange way, it appears to me like a child who has been told not to eat the cookie from the jar grabbing a jar of potentially dangerous cookies and devouring them!<br /><br /><b>Are you desperate enough to try a "iffy" ROM on your device just to get to Windows Mobile 6? <i>And</i> Does Palm have any of the blame resting on it's shoulders for bricked devices given their non-existant communication with users regarding the timeline for this upgrade?</b>

[deemota]

Heck yeah. I already had WM6 for 2 weeks now. This is a newer build than the one I had. Works flawlessly....

[EastExpert]

People these days like positive change that happens to them. Otherwise their life is very much boring.

50 years ago people could work for the same company their whole life. These days it's usually 2-3 years.
Olden type people could (and still can!) drive the same car from dealership and till the last breath at the scrap yard.

We the "new" people get bored with stuff. 3 years old car is lovely, but you still want something new. 12 months old mobile phone invites upgrade. Windows XP?! It's ancient, out of date, rubbish -- here we go Vista.

Naturally, people have paid for their Windows Mobile devices and they want more and more from it, or a new device. The latter is not always practical, so we try to squeeze new juice from old fruit.

This is why WM6, not that it's a revolution in Windows Mobile line, but merely because it's newer, cleaner, crispier, better, is in such a demand.

People bored to death want something new, this is why they don't mind risk involved... new experiences are tempting. :)

[whydidnt]

I think this really points to the fact the Windows Mobile upgrade model is terribly broken. MS updates the OS on a regular basis, yet it's up to the Manufacturers and now the phone carriers to actually deliver the upgrade to the user. Quite often that takes much longer than necessary or doesn't even happen. All the while, users who have paid several hundred dollars for a device and are usually locked into a long term contract see new features available that they can't get, only because of the whim of the carrier/manufacturer, NOT because their hardware isn't capable of utilizing the new feature. So, tech savy users take matters into their own hands. Some upgrades go bad, but a majority work just fine.

The reality is that MS is going to have to separate the core OS from the device specific drivers and "stuff" and start making these upgrades available to everyone, even if they charge for it. The current system just is too complex and too burdensome for everyone involved. WM is no longer the new kid on the block that must conform to the whims of it's OEM customers. They are in a position to dictate some of the terms of use of their software.

[mbranscum]

The ROM is fine. It's the real deal. If you want it, get it. What would we do without XDA Developers! :D

[freitasm]

It works perfectly well on my Treo 750v. And yes, Palm and others are taking too long to update their devices.

[mbranscum]

I'm kinda surprised you guys posted a link to a illegal rom. ;)

[freitasm]

I just found out one interesting feature: you can control voice mail playback using the directional pad. I have a screenshot in my blog (http://www.geekzone.co.nz/freitasm/3410).

It works really well on Vodafone's VM system, even though the feature is for the AT&amp;T service.

[galt]

Are you desperate enough to try a "iffy" ROM on your device just to get to Windows Mobile 6? And Does Palm have any of the blame resting on it's shoulders for bricked devices given their non-existant communication with users regarding the timeline for this upgrade?
Yes.
No.

[ianl]

This comment isn't specifically for "desperate" Treo owners, rather a specific example of the irritation of "Waiting for Godot", aka waiting for a ROM upgrade.

The advent of SDHC 4Gb and upwards cards is a big deal for those many who use the computer section of PDA's. Using these cards is not a hardware issue, but a firmware issue. FAT32 sector addressing rather than FAT16 byte addressing. OEM firmware drivers for WM5/6 are commercially available for ROM development (try BSQUARE website). Digital camera developers are shipping firmware updates for older cameras now.

But the capability of PDA's to utilise them is almost non-existent. Several cooked ROM's for older HTC models are available for download off xda-developers. When one is available for my device, I shall NOT hesitate.

[dma1965]

I downloaded the ROM and did not care if it bricked my device, because it was nearly unusable. It constantly lost the flash card, constantly decided it no longer wanted to open any applications, constantly decided to stop answering calls, etc. It is now nearly FLAWLESS with WM6 on it. Once I got used to WM6 on my Cingular 8525, I just hated going back.

Palm and ATT are just taking too long to get this out. If you announce this in March, why in the Hell is it taking 5 months to get this out, especially since the 8525 WM6 "unnoficial" updates have been around since then?

[jngold_me]

I just found out one interesting feature: you can control voice mail playback using the directional pad. I have a screenshot in my blog (http://www.geekzone.co.nz/freitasm/3410).

It works really well on Vodafone's VM system, even though the feature is for the AT&amp;T service.

That feature has been available for quite some time. Also, it's not tailored toward any particular system, as it is full programmable to whatever keypresses are required by the system of your choice.

[bnycastro]

I loaded it up to my Treo 750v because I was tired of waiting for palm/Voda to release an update. I'll probably flash with the palm or Voda WM6 ROM if ever those get released but for now I'm just happy I finally have WM6 on my Treo even with all the AT&amp;T crap that I don't need and won't use.

[jgrnt1]

I just did this with my 8525. Besides little annoyances with WM5, I had big annoyances which some said were fixed with WM6. They were right. There were stability issues. I did soft resets several times a day. The biggest issue for me was Microsoft's terrible Bluetooth stack. I have a new car with built-in Bluetooth. The phone would often not connect. It would randomly drop the connection. I sometimes had to turn off and restart Bluetooth several times to get it to connect. It would not transfer the phone book -- all at once or even one entry at a time. Toyota's website said this was a problem with all WM5 phones, so they listed them as not compatible. I almost didn't buy the car because I spend so much time in it and needed the handsfree functionality. WM6 has actually fixed all of this, so I assume Microsoft fixed their Bluetooth stack. The BT connection is almost instantaneous, the phonebook transferred automatically, the connection never drops &lt;quick prayer>.

I see this as both a Microsoft and carrier problem. Carriers want to tie you into features of their service, not just lock the phones. If these were apps in RAM which could easily be removed, they would have less of a hold on us. I think MS designed an OS model which helps carriers customize the operations of their phones. When Palm, or HTC, or whoever else upgrades their OS, it's not just a matter of adding the drivers specific to their hardware. They have to add in all the customized junk each carrier wants, so for even a single model of phone, they may have to create a dozen custom ROMs. They would much rather spend their resources on new device development and I can't blame them for this.

[drblow]

AS a regular PPC customiser I flashed a WM6 rom nearly as soon as they became available. After flashing a few different variations I found one that workslike a treat on my Orange UK M3100 &amp; haven't looked back since. I would recommend it to anyone.

I honestly believe that MS needs to cut a new deal with the network operators. To me the situation is exactly the same as if I bought a Toshiba laptop, but couldn't get access to MS updates until Toshiba decided to release them as an OS update! I can't imagine MS allowing PC vendors control over how users access windows updates.

Orange UK were the first company here to introduce the 'smartphone' and windows mobile generally. Their update process was laboured at best, and now it appears to have dried up altogether. I don't think anyone is under any illusions that this is purely because the network wants to sellpeople a new phone with the new OS on it, rather than allow them to upgrade their old handset. I think this is a fairly false marketing plan, as many users would update their handsets regularly anyway, but would feel much more valued as customers if during their year contract they recieved some benefits &amp; upgrades.

The mobile market is now utterly saturated. I think that network providers should consider how they keep customers attached to their networks, rather than losing them to churn. A very big part of this service for me personally would have to include OS updates from MS.

All that said, and to echo the sentiments above, thank god for XDA Developers!

[cgavula]

I think it's not so much that people are clamoring for WM6 as they are struggling for fixes to the problems with the current 750 implementation. I've read some people talking about how their 750s run flawlessly, but the sense I get is that this is NOT the majority of users. Most people seem to have problems ranging from minor nuisances to major failures and they want the device to become much more stable than it is.

Some examples - the 750 is often sluggish and freezes, the alarms still don't work 100% correctly (even after the fix) calls still drop, etc. etc. and people are tired of it and looking for ANYTHING that will help the situation.

Fixes have been promised almost since the release of the device and WM6 was promised, I believe, for an August release. I think people think WM6 will clear up a lot of their problems so they're jumping on it, even at the risk of bricking the device.

I think this probably should have been made available a while ago (with a warning that it was still a beta product), but that Palm/AT&amp;T/etc. should NOT be held liable if you brick the device installing it - it is NOT the official release and you therefore operate at your own risk.

The current model of MS providing the core OS and then having the carriers modify it is foolish and dramatically slows down the break/fix schedule. Perhaps the break/fix process should be separated from the feature set process. MS could control the break/fix process end-to-end and let the carrier add/remove features on their own schedule (rarely do these seem to change during a device life cycle).

What we see today is that MS blames the carrier and the carrier blames MS and nothing gets done in a timely manner. In that sense, Apple kind of got it right (if they carry through) by controlling the device and the software/OS on it and not letting the carrier get into the mix. The head of Nextel made comments that this model was going to force the carriers (back) into being common carriers and not service/content providers. He thought this was a bad thing. Seeing how poorly they handle software development I tend to think they should be limited to a carrier-only state.

Come on MS, come on Palm, step up for once and actually own the problem and resolution instead of just saying "the carrier has to release any updates"! Then maybe most people won't be so quick to download test versions of software and still expect support for it.

--Chris

[Jon Westfall]

I'm kinda surprised you guys posted a link to a illegal rom. ;)

The point of the post wasn't to say "Here's the ROM, go download it", rather it was to take you to a discussion post that had more info on the subject. Not my fault they happened to have a link to an illegal ROM in that thread ;)

Besides, just breezing through that post will confirm that it wasn't all roses for everyone who decided to try that ROM. User beware!

[Tony Rylow]

With WM5, I had the volume issue each time that I powered off the device or soft reset. I would need to run the fix each time. Now with WM6 I have soft reset and powered off the device a few times with no trouble.

Main reason I wanted this ROM was for the upgraded e-mail features, which all seem to work great so far.

I initially experienced problems with the update failing. After looking back, I think the problems may have been caused by the SD Card Reader on my laptop, that has since ceased to recognize any cards. After I got a USB Card Reader, formatted the card to Fat32, copied the file over. The upgrade went much quicker and completed successfully.

[rob_ocelot]

I'm reminded of the time I bought an HP4150 partially based on the fact that HP advertised that the OS could be flashed/upgraded. No update to WM2003SE came and the 4150 (and the 2250 as well) quietly dissappeared from the marketplace. HP lost a lot of loyal customers that year.

In that sense, I applaud people (XDA Developers, particularly) who have taken it upon themselves to cook new ROMs for themselves and the community at large. Technically it's a grey area since you are dealing with propretary software and firmware. So far no company has taken action against these people but I'm wondering when the other shoe will drop.

On the other hand, if you flash an untested and unauthorized firmware into your device and brick it then it was your risk to take, and your responsibility. This is an expense that should not be incurred by either the carrier or M$, no matter how impatient or p'ed off you are.

No one likes to be strung along like Treo users have this year, or HP4150 users were in 2004 but that is not an excuse for what is impatience on the part of the consumer.

[Frankie1]

Apart form www.pocketpcthoughts.com , xda-developers.com is my favorite website.

I've flashed my hi-end device (jasjar) with atleast 6 different ROMs over the past year, still no official release for the device yet. I've heard of people brinking devices but It's worth it to me.

flash flash tweak tweak

[joelevi]

...The biggest issue for me was Microsoft's terrible Bluetooth stack. I have a new car with built-in Bluetooth. ... Toyota's website said this was a problem with all WM5 phones ... WM6 has actually fixed all of this, so I assume Microsoft fixed their Bluetooth stack. The BT connection is almost instantaneous, the phonebook transferred automatically, the connection never drops. ...

I have a 2006 Toyota Prius and was experiencing the same problems you described with my E-TEN G-500, originally E-TEN used a proprietary Bluetooth stack (which included the stereo headset implementation... this is BEFORE Microsoft updated their stack to include stereo Bluetooth (A2DP?)).

Stereo Bluetooth was great, but pairing with the Prius was not. It took quite some time to get the pairing sequence just right -- but once paired it worked pretty well. When E-TEN updated their ROM to include Microsoft's BT stack -- including stereo Bluetooth (as well as push-email, etc.) -- I didn't have a problem pairing with my Prius (or anything else for that matter. That's with the MS BT stack in WinMo 5 -- not 6.

I then upgraded to a MiTech Mio A701 (also WinMo 5), also with the MS (stereo) BT stack, and also have not have a problem pairing with my Prius (or anything else).

-www.JoeLevi.com (http://www.joelevi.com)

[inteller]

what disgusts me is that from what I read on XDA-dev, ATT is pushing a bunch of DRECK onto the phone. I bet THIS is the reason that the ROM hasn't released officially yet, because all of their CRAP is probably giving them fits with testing.

THAT is the reason people cook their own ROMs, because we have to get rid of the CRAP that the carriers push on us. I don't want ATT Video, XM Trials, and all that other crap. That was one good thing about the WM5 on the treo, it lacked a lot of that stuff.

I also read that they are stripping out Pocket MSN. I think Microsoft should revoke their licenses for doing that.

I would LOVE it if Microsoft would just make their own unlocked GSM phone. Its the CARRIER'S FAULT that we have to put up with these upgrade shenannigans, not Microsoft.

[ctmagnus]

what disgusts me is that from what I read on XDA-dev, ATT is pushing a bunch of DRECK onto the phone.

"A bunch" is an understatement. :roll:

[inteller]

i installed this ROM last night. Can't comment on the stability yet, though things already "seem" better than WM5.

The ATT crap is egregious. Carriers have gone off the deep end. I'll be waiting patiently for a cooked ROM to take all this crap out. The icons....many are just links to HTML pages! WHO CARES!?!?!

[cgavula]

So far I've only found one app that isn't working correctly for me - iGo 2006 Plus. The display of this nav app gets drawn a half-a-screen too high and is unusable as such. I don't know if the problem is the app itself, WM 6 or merely that it's still a test version, but the glitch is there!

--Chris

[vijay555]

I tend to live most of my online life over at XDA Devs, but this is an interesting question for all hackers and tweakers:
As enthusiasts, we spend an enormous amount of time introducing instability into our systems, tweaking, refining, rebooting, registry editing, hacking, reverse engineering, re-writing, reflashing, pleading to forgiving better-halves and generally suffering from trichotillomania.

Why? So that at the end of the day we can come out with a new tweak, or a new rom, that's 0.01% faster, has a shinier bar at the bottom, tweaks the carrier logo, or whatever's your poison.

I'm a little bit of a PPC nerd, but I have the enormous pleasure of rubbing shoulders with some of the smartest hackers I've ever known. We all work hard, doing a job that we should not have to do: we spend our hard-earned time to improve the device that we've spent our hard earned cash on.

In an ideal world, Microsoft would have made the operating system perfect, and would merely push improvements to us, over the air, transparently, ever week, and our WM2003 devices would have self upgraded themselves to WM6 by now.

However, due to the agreements and the way that most of the Mobile Phone Operators operate, any build improvements from Microsoft, the manufacturer (eg HTC), or indeed the phone company (eg Orange) must get pushed to the Operator, who will then rebrand it, test it (because of course, we never want buggy upgrades), decide whether to charge for it, and finally get around to releasing it some months later. Or: maybe they will just decide to sit on it and never release it, as it will impact sales for the devices that have become more relevant in the intervening period.

I love my phone (HTC Hermes), as an extension of my daily life. I like to tweak it, here and there, there and here. I know I waste a disproportionate amount of time doing so, often for little practical gain. But why then? Because we're enthusiasts, and that's what we do.

So, if Microsoft dangles a carrot in front of our face in 2005, and tells us they're going to release WM6 to manufacturers, that's great news! And if they tell us, it's hardware compatible with WM5, that's even better news! Now we just have to wait for HTC and Orange et al to release it to into our outstretched hands.

But.... sometimes, things don't work like that. It requires effort to rewrite drivers for the new OS. To test compatibility with the new upgrades. To ensure nothing crashes, or is less stable, or won't randomly drop calls. This requires investment. And investment demands cash returns. So, it only really makes sense for the operator to release a tested, substantial upgrade if they can get something out of it: whether that's improved goodwill, or just a a few dollars/pounds/won... and you know: sometimes, it makes sense not to release it all!
Why upgrade the HTC Wizard to WM6, when it will cannibalise sales from "true" WM6 devices like the Keiser? So, commercial decisions may just come down to the hard truth: they're not going to upgrade your phone, even though it can, because it's not commercially sensible to do so.

Understand: I have absolutely no problems with that. Our phone manufacturers are in Business, so random acts of generosity are few and far between. It makes sense to sell a million new handsets, then to allow the last million to upgrade.

However, if we can upgrade, should we not try? Should we not try to get the most out of the hardware we've spent our money on and are happy with?

So, speaking for the xda guys and gals, we are, as lawyers would say (and I am a lawyer, so I say it), somewhat reckless as to the consequences of our actions! We dive into the latest upgrade, take it apart, strip it down, build tools to decrypt, decompile, recompile, reflash, and ultimately cook your own DIY rom. The guys (and gals) are enthusiasts, and will try to tweak and refine. It takes time for us because often we don't know what we're doing, and have to do it all from the ground up [and don't forget: support your local rom chef. PLEASE don't complain and curse, advise and help. They work hard! And we're all people with feelings: if you prick us, do we not bleed?]

In a very very roundabout fashion, I hope I've explained a little of my personal motivation for jumping on the opportunity to upgrade. Now that doesn't always mean that I will. A brief segue, and a funny story:

I have been asked to be one of the "experts" on the Pocket PC Annual Awards. One of my perks is that they send me the latest edition of the Smartphone and Pocket PC magazine. It's HIGHLY recommended. Buy a subscription now. You will get to see a photo of me, and that alone makes it worth it.

So anyway, on the cover of this month's magazine, it proudly proclaims:
"Windows Mobile 6 phones are HERE!"
I chuckled when I saw this.

I am far from the most connected guy around, but let's say, I know "friends" that were running WM6 for getting on close to a year. Very stable, very usable versions of WM6, for various devices. These friends are generally very very careful about who has access to these leaks. And they are very concerned about the risk to the leak-er, the person giving them access to leaked roms, because people shouldn't lose jobs because of this.

So, if the "public" is wondering why leaked roms don't always get released to the masses, it's because sometimes they don't want to risk anyone getting into major trouble.

But, when possible, they try to share with the public, and to feed the useful, stable parts back into the community. And yes, cutting edges can make you bleed, sometimes. But caveat emptor.
If you do not know how to reflash and repair your phone, don't risk pre-release roms.

But, if you like to live on the bleeding edge, sometimes it's a real revelation.
The Hermes was a much better device with WM6, and the Universal suddenly became much more usable.
In fact - some of the pre-release roms were, from experience, better then the current "official" roms, which have slower bells and whistles, and are generally more bloaty.

So, again, caveat emptor, but if you're prepared to take the plunge, and know what you're doing, sometimes, it's worth it.

V

PS Obligatory iPhone reference: Apple once again raised the bar with manufacturer controlled upgrades - they can upgrade the phone directly through itunes, rather than waiting for AT&amp;T to get around to it in their own time. And as iPhone hackers have seen, they pushed upgrades through very quickly. Compare that with the sporadic and tardy fashion in which the Windows Mobile community receives upgrade love.

PPS Illegal rom updates: if anyone finds anything illegal on XDA devs (or indeed this forum), let your local moderator know. I'm always happy to receive posts from concerned xda devs users.

[vijay555]

XDA Ping Back:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=322881

V