HTC "Shifts" from Pocket PCs and Smartphones to UMPCs [Archive]

Darius Wey

03-26-2007, 05:15 PM

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/26/htc-shift-the-cellphone-company-finally-goes-umpc/' target='_blank'>http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/26/...ally-goes-umpc/</a> </div>Bold move, HTC. You've created a UMPC that, well... makes me want a UMPC. <img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/wey-20070326-htcshift.jpg" /> Yes, it's not everyday that you see us post on UMPCs, but considering HTC is a name familiar to just about all of you, this was too good an opportunity to pass up. The HTC Shift runs Windows Vista Business and features a VIA CPU, a 30GB HDD, a 7" slide-tilt widescreen display (touch-enabled, of course), quad-band GSM/GPRS/EDGE and tri-band UMTS/HSDPA connectivity, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth 2.0, a biometric reader, and a front-facing camera. <a href="http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/26/htc-shift-the-cellphone-company-finally-goes-umpc/">Engadget</a> thinks it'll be out around Q3 at an estimated price of under $2000 USD, but we'll keep our eyes and ears open for an official word from HTC and provide confirmation as soon as possible. In the meantime, you may want to head over to the <a href="http://www.htc.com/">HTC web site</a> to see the Shift's tilting and sliding mechanism in action. Any of you jonesing for one right about now? ;) UPDATE #1: Here's a massive 3071 x 2047 pixel <a href="http://images.thoughtsmedia.com/ppct/2007/HTC-Shift-highres.jpg">high resolution image</a> weighing in at 2 MB. Revel in the high-res glory! ;-) UPDATE #2: And <a href="http://feeds.engadget.com/~r/weblogsinc/engadget/~3/104606942/">even more images</a>.

virain

03-26-2007, 07:08 PM

So, now instead of sarring one smart phone and paying one bill I will have to carry 2 devices, and pay 2 monthly bills? :devilboy:
PS Sorry OQO, I like this one better! 0X

pocketpcadmirer

03-26-2007, 07:12 PM

saru83

03-26-2007, 08:24 PM

Amazing device, first UMPC to pack all kind of latest connectivity available.. but i guess it would be a lil big or at least bigger then the OQO 01/02 & the UX.. still, its awesome..

ctitanic

03-26-2007, 08:24 PM

sudermatt

03-26-2007, 08:46 PM

ctitanic

03-26-2007, 08:55 PM

Full Circle....

Anyone else see the similarity with the old HP 620lx.... it's 1995 all over again.

Accept, this one runs a desktop operating system.... But the form factor is exactly the same as the ol clamshells

I agree. Many people were very disappointed when HP announced no plans to support or build any more HPCs. But HPC2000 was not powerful enough to do all that we wanted to do on those devices. This is why I love UMPC platform. It´s giving me what my old Jornada 720 could not.

ricksfiona

03-26-2007, 09:05 PM

Wow!
This has made me drool over UMPCs now. IMHO, the UMPC market is going to bloom in a great way in couple of years

Just few more peaks(or leaks) in the details about this wonderful device and I m in to buy it :)

You got it right.

About two bills, I have just one phone bill, with Voice and Data, you can ask a copy of your sim card and have that copy in your UMPC to use just the data connection. :wink:

Hmm, I thought you could do this... But I thought the carriers didn't allow it...

Now, this is one GORGEOUS device. Kicks butt on my TabletKIOSK EO UMPC that I've been 'pretty' happy with.

Since I have a UMPC and this HTC device is about the same size... I would think twice about someone getting rid of their cellphone and using ONLY this device. While fairly small, it's still several times bigger than even a large cellphone. STILL, at least a couple of times larger than any PDA with a slide out keyboard.

Another issue is weight. My UMPC is about 1.75 lbs. Which rocks. I also wonder about the keyboard moving out of the way so you can still use the computer as a tablet. How about mouse control? And do I REALLY want Vista running on a 1.2GHz processor? My XP based machine runs 'satisfactorily' on a 1GHz machine.. Is an extra 200MHz really going to make that much of a difference? Is the 3G on this device compatible with T-Mo's? Lastly, battery life. I'm lucky to get 2 hours of life on a regular battery w/o WiFi turned on with my current device... The biggest bummer..

I would consider this UMPC a 2nd, or even 3rd generation device. It's a darn nice one too. Great looks, great features.. I paid $1400 for my UMPC.. If this device is less than $2k, and I'm thinking around $1800, it would be certainly tempting...

As battery life becomes better, I think UMPC's are going to be a much more viable option than your traditional laptop. Price has to come down just a touch. People REALLY like having a touchscreen rather than KEYBOARD ONLY laptops.

Even on my 1GHz UMPC, performance is pretty darn nice with everyday work matters. I look forward to the future.

inteller

03-26-2007, 09:20 PM

what ever happened to microsofts goal of bringing in an era of cheap UMPCs? It seems no one can make one of these under $1000, let alone the $600 target Microsoft had set.

ricksfiona

03-26-2007, 10:29 PM

what ever happened to microsofts goal of bringing in an era of cheap UMPCs? It seems no one can make one of these under $1000, let alone the $600 target Microsoft had set.

You can get a $900 model at TabletKiosk... It's a very decent machine with a 40GB hard drive, 1GHz processor and WiFi. I think the $600 price point is a couple of years away, though attainable.

Fritzly

03-26-2007, 11:07 PM

The fact that the hard disk is only 30GB and the VIA CPU do not convince me. There are several UMPC available with bigger HDs and more powerful CPUs.
A price below $2000 ($1900?) with these specs is, IMO, way too high.
Last but not less important the device is suppose dto be available in the 3rd quarter; it will be interesting to see what, in the same time frame, other companies will offer.

ecsk2

03-26-2007, 11:15 PM

So we are reaching the crossroads, now its devices like this that might kill PPC I'd think..

Magallanes

03-26-2007, 11:24 PM

It's really hard to buy this gadgets... to choice less weight less but via chip or to choice more weight but dual core, graphics card, full keyboard and such.

imho a umpc can kickass when cost less that $400 and can run win2k, xp or even win98 (there wasn't needing to run the lastest and bloated os).

fresh-popcorn

03-26-2007, 11:44 PM

So we are reaching the crossroads, now its devices like this that might kill PPC I'd think..

Personally I don't think so.
There will be many many users that will find this still too large to carry around with them at all times.
The Current line of 8525/TyTn is a nice size but if they could cram a screen the size of the SX66/PDA2K into it then that would be the perfect size PPC device for me.

farnold

03-27-2007, 12:07 AM

So we are reaching the crossroads, now its devices like this that might kill PPC I'd think..
Yep, but is it really unexpected that over time PocketPC, Smartphone, Notebook transform into the same kind of bases - while still remaining different things? If Windows Vista could run on a device as small as the average phone, why not strip it down to what's required, make it usable for the mums & dads and forget about a seperate, hardware-vendor dependant Windows Mobile OS altogether? That's not the end of PPCs, just their evolution into something better.

ecsk2

03-27-2007, 12:58 AM

PS Sorry OQO, I like this one better! 0X

I agree, but if the claims of the size being TWO DVD cases is anywhere close to reality then it would make this TWO TIMES the size of the OQO, at least when I put my OQO metal case next to two DVD cases the OQO 01 metal case is 50% the size of the DVD cases. The thickness about the same. :cry:

ecsk2

03-27-2007, 12:59 AM

Gen-M

03-27-2007, 01:15 AM

Three questions:
1. Why only 30GB HD?? 60 needs to b an option.
2. Battery Life?
3. Weight?

Except for HD size, and assuming decent battery life and weight, this could be the best available in Q3. We will have to wait and see.

Nurhisham Hussein

03-27-2007, 02:50 AM

The fact that the hard disk is only 30GB and the VIA CPU do not convince me.

I can live with 30GB, but the VIA CPU worries me - unless they're putting in the C8M? Otherwise, I'd consider $2k just a little over-priced since you get HSDPA as well. Oh, and please tell me they're using an LED-backlit screen!!

ricksfiona

03-27-2007, 06:20 AM

The future is unsure. It always is... But when you have devices like the Treo, when does it stop becoming a PPC or Smartphone? Personally, a Treo like device (integrated) or those new iMates and a UMPC would do it for my mobile needs. A non-phone PPC will only be entry-level and be good for those less technically inclined. They may even die out for the lack of profit margin they will have.

isajoo

03-27-2007, 06:36 AM

alese

03-27-2007, 08:06 AM

i still think that UMPCs are not a necessity. if u DO have a ppcpe and have a voice/data plan then why not just get a app like gotomypc(not the best one, but quite famous) and u suddenly have access to a pc and can basically run any app. also u will have access to all data stored on that pc. there are many full screen apps for remote pc from ppc. u can thank me later for saving you $2000 and now u have a REAL ppc that fits in your pocket and have full access to vista/xp. problem/solution.

That's true, but from my experience, you need at least UMTS or WiFi connection (GPRS is too slow) and VGA PPCPE (even with VGA the screen is still really constrained) to be able to really do something.
And even then it's just a quick fix sollution, to do some simple tasks remotelly, it's not even close to beeing good enough for longer use of full applications, and any multimedia use is out of the question.

alese

03-27-2007, 08:11 AM

If HTC would "Shift" the price to Athena(Advantage) level this would really be something.
Actually even at $2000 I consider this to be a better (more usable and bang for a buck) sollution than Athena...

I just hope that (since it has GSM/GPRS/UMTS) carriers will offer this subsidized, for $800 and 2 year contract this could be really great...

Nurhisham Hussein

03-27-2007, 09:05 AM

I can live with 30GB, but the VIA CPU worries me

I thought I'd explain this a little bit for those who aren't in the know - the VIA C7M does not run Aero Glass under Vista, in fact it's multimedia and graphics capability is quite poor. On the other hand it is less power hungry than the current generation of Intel chips (that will change with the new mobile chips coming out soon). There is a new VIA chip line on the way, which may be what this is equipped with considering that HTC explicitly state the Shift will run Aero.

My other concern is that the screen resolution is only 800x480, and trust me, this can be a real problem - lots of apps are written for much larger resolutions and you can even run into problems with Windows dialogs. My Sony U8G runs in 800x600 and I still run into problems like this - it would be worse on WVGA.

BTW, PCMag (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2107696,00.asp) have posted a hands-on preview and they actually like it, especially the keyboard.

if u DO have a ppcpe and have a voice/data plan then why not just get a app like gotomypc(not the best one, but quite famous) and u suddenly have access to a pc and can basically run any app.

That's true, but from my experience, you need at least UMTS or WiFi connection (GPRS is too slow) and VGA PPCPE (even with VGA the screen is still really constrained) to be able to really do something.

I agree with alese - you have to try this first before you know the limitations, and the experience is leaves very much to be desired. You're really at the mercy of the quality of your data connection and network congestion - trying this on GPRS is painful, and UMTS isn't much better. I tried this out for a couple of months before giving up and buying a laptop.

I just hope that (since it has GSM/GPRS/UMTS) carriers will offer this subsidized, for $800 and 2 year contract this could be really great...

Sorry to disappoint you mate, but HTC have confirmed that they'll be selling it through PC channels, not carriers.

alese

03-27-2007, 10:36 AM

...

I just hope that (since it has GSM/GPRS/UMTS) carriers will offer this subsidized, for $800 and 2 year contract this could be really great...

Sorry to disappoint you mate, but HTC have confirmed that they'll be selling it through PC channels, not carriers.
...
That's dissapointing. Although you never know, maybe things will change, after all why would they sell only Advantage through carriers and not Shift, given that HTC has good relations with them.

Gen-M

03-27-2007, 01:50 PM

And, while current systems using the VIA C7M chip do not run AERO, this machine evidently does - so HTC has figured out how to do it. Given that they are a sister company to VIA, if anyone can do it, they can.

Paul Kay

03-27-2007, 02:04 PM

Nurhisham Hussein wrote:

My other concern is that the screen resolution is only 800x480, and trust me, this can be a real problem - lots of apps are written for much larger resolutions

Any developer whose work is only usable on higher resolution screens should be shot or at the very least be drummed out of the business.

After 30+ years of eye-straining development, I can't read a screen anymore at resolutions greater than 800x480. :)

Gen-M

03-27-2007, 02:23 PM

After 30+ years of eye-straining development, I can't read a screen anymore at resolutions greater than 800x480. :)

AMEN!

Darius Wey

03-27-2007, 05:58 PM

More eye candy: http://feeds.engadget.com/~r/weblogsinc/engadget/~3/104606942/

Cybrid

03-27-2007, 09:01 PM

And do I REALLY want Vista running on a 1.2GHz processor? My XP based machine runs 'satisfactorily' on a 1GHz machine.. Is an extra 200MHz really going to make that much of a difference? From my experiments with my PC, the Vista compatibilty advisor and some experts...I would have to say the biggest requirement in Vista is the graphics card. You could run it in as little as a 1 Ghz provided you have a good graphics card. Mine is a NVidia 256Mb and I've got 784 RAM.

No issues were detected for these system components
The following table contains system components that meet the minimum hardware requirements needed for Windows Vista.
Category Action Required Explanation
CPU No action required Your computer's CPU is AMD Athlon(tm)
System memory (RAM) No action required Your computer has 768.00 MB of RAM.
DVD drive No action required Your computer can read DVDs.
DVD-RW drive No action required You can record DVDs on your computer.
Video card No action required Your current video card will support the Windows Aero™ user experience.

Nurhisham Hussein

03-28-2007, 05:09 AM

That's dissapointing. Although you never know, maybe things will change, after all why would they sell only Advantage through carriers and not Shift, given that HTC has good relations with them.

They're selling the Advantage through Amazon in the US - which I find a bit intriguing. Instant retail network?

And, while current systems using the VIA C7M chip do not run AERO, this machine evidently does - so HTC has figured out how to do it. Given that they are a sister company to VIA, if anyone can do it, they can.

From what Jason said at the CTIA blog (http://ctia2007.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!2B19213B4A187D9E!119.entry), it appears they're using a non-VIA graphics solution (Intel would you believe?) - which explains the ability to run Aero. Now, if they'll only fix the resolution.

After 30+ years of eye-straining development, I can't read a screen anymore at resolutions greater than 800x480.

I typically raise the screen dpi on my PCs and laptops to account for that - but that forces even well-behaved dialogues off the screen. :(

jlp

03-28-2007, 06:59 AM

After 30+ years of eye-straining development, I can't read a screen anymore at resolutions greater than 800x480.

I typically raise the screen dpi on my PCs and laptops to account for that - but that forces even well-behaved dialogues off the screen. :(

How good is it to have a denser screen if:
you're gonna raise the screen dpi and end up with the same text density, only with crispier text; at that already very dense dpi rate (800x480 on 7") the improvement is virtually nill
how good is it, if it "forces even well-behaved dialogues off the screen. :("
it makes the device much more expensive

All in all: virtually no advantage for 2 consequent disadvantages :evil:

Jonathan1

03-28-2007, 07:06 AM

So we are reaching the crossroads, now its devices like this that might kill PPC I'd think..

There's no "might" about it. It was\is simply a matter of time. The nanosecond Microsoft started talking up Windows Mobile instead of the Pocket PC and the Tablet PC I knew the days of the Pocket PC were numbered. At this point its simply a matter of getting the hardware to a advanced and mature enough state, and getting the price point down below 4 figures. IMHO we still aren't there yet. I'm still thinking 2010 though. By that time hopefully digital ink in color will be out and about, storage densities should be sky rocketing, and ULV CPU's should easily be able to fit in a PDA sized device while still performing well.
What we have here isn't a PDA sized device. Its a handheld PC sized device and I still believe that such a device is niche unless someone can get the world hooked on ebooks. (While I beleive could possibly be the kiler app for HHPC sized devices.
Like it or not Windows Mobile and the Pocket PC were always a stop gap on Microsoft's OS Roadmap.

Nurhisham Hussein

03-29-2007, 10:41 AM

How good is it to have a denser screen if:
you're gonna raise the screen dpi and end up with the same text density, only with crispier text; at that already very dense dpi rate (800x480 on 7") the improvement is virtually nill
how good is it, if it "forces even well-behaved dialogues off the screen. :("
it makes the device much more expensive

All in all: virtually no advantage for 2 consequent disadvantages :evil:

Raising the dpi only increases the size of system text - everything else remains the same. My biggest concern is the screen height resolution more than anything else. I can (and have) lived with 800x600 on a 5" screen, 800x480 is IMHO a bit too restrictive - gimme 1024x600 and I'll be happy :wink:

Menneisyys

04-26-2007, 09:16 PM

Raising the dpi only increases the size of system text - everything else remains the same. My biggest concern is the screen height resolution more than anything else. I can (and have) lived with 800x600 on a 5" screen, 800x480 is IMHO a bit too restrictive - gimme 1024x600 and I'll be happy :wink:

Yup, the Sony UMPC's use 1024x600 at 4.5". 800x480 will effectively kill Shift (along with the use of VIA if it'll be as slow as its other incarnations) - IMHO. It's even less DPI than current 15.4" WUXGA (or, 15" UXGA) screens - that is, surely far more pixels could be used in the Shift's screen.

And anyone with a high-resolution will agree it's very easy to make use of the extremely high DPI of, say,a 15" UXGA screen if you, for example, use Opera as the main browser. Then, you will almost never run into "the text is too small" problems.

Nurhisham Hussein

04-27-2007, 10:24 AM

...(along with the use of VIA if it'll be as slow as its other incarnations)...

The latest news is that VIA is out of the picture - the Shift will use Intel's Ultra Mobile Platform 2007 (aka McCaslin). No worries about Aero-glass, though the A100/A110 processors appear to have fairly slow clock speeds (600MHz/800MHz). Time will tell if these are really up to any kind of intensive computing demands.