Microsoft Unveils Windows Mobile 6

[Jason Dunn]

Breaking all-new ground in the realm of worst-kept secret ever, Windows Mobile 6 (a.k.a. "Crossbow") has been officially announced by Microsoft. It's a bit earlier than 3GSM, which is where they were going to announce it originally. As such, there's nothing official to link to yet, nor do I have a swanky article all about Windows Mobile 6 because I'm waiting to get a device running the beta back from Microsoft (it's a long story).<br /><br />Some of the highlights include:<br /><br />• Full support for HTML email (within the limitations of IE Mobile's rendering engine of course)<br />• Office Mobile now included, with support for reading and editing Office documents on the Smartphone<br />• New streamlined functioning of email client: one click delete, reply, etc. Set email flags for follow-up.<br />• Set "Out of Office" function directly on the device (with an Exchange server of course)<br />• Windows Vista synchronization with Windows Mobile Device Center<br />• Calendar ribbon in the calendar application gives you the ability to see your free/busy time easier<br />• Windows Live client<br />• Call History is now a part of the contact itself, so you can see when you last phoned that person, etc.<br />• Internet sharing: there's a new built-in application to make using your device as a modem much easier<br /><br />As per usual, this latest version of Windows Mobile is about more than just bullet points: there's a lot of background ("plumbing" work) to enable new and better devices. I've had some limited experience with Windows Mobile 6, and it's a solid step forward for the platform. There's nothing particularly amazing about it, but just like Windows Mobile 5 the total number improvements make for a better overall device. I know they've spent a lot of time improving the performance and stability of the operating system in general (which was already quite good in my opinion), but the real test will be the devices.<br /><br />Everyone is wondering about upgrades I'm sure, but just like last time, it's too early to say what each of the OEMs are going to be doing - but stay tuned here for the official information as we get it!

[JonnoB]

HTML email support is what I am most excited about. I could not use FlexMail as it did not support Exchange Activesync (for HTML email). I will run it against my soon to be updated Exchange 2007 server (currently 2003).

Question from anyone who has used it as it was not clear in any of the online reviews. When replying to HTML email, is the response also in HTML?

[TOCA]

Second that: HTML mail is what I've been waiting for since 2004 8)

Can hardly wait any more :wink:

[murph]

what about a "mark all as read" option?

[huangzhinong]

I have been using WM6 for 2 month now, and I have to say I am very impressed. There is one thing the post didn't mention: speed. WM6 is much faster than WM5. HTML email, smartdialing (smarter than HTC smartdialer 1.0), becautiful icons, new email wizard and fast responses make it a must-have upgrade for WM5 users. BTW, the updated calendar is very nice too.

[Jon Westfall]

I'll be interested to see what OEMs offer this as an upgrade. I'd assume it's easier to upgrade to WM6 than it was to upgrade to WM5 2 years back (at least, it seems to me that it would be...). I predict that some devices with fairly flexible hardware will have some...unofficial... upgrades created. If I had to place bets on who will and won't be getting an update, I'd have to put my money squarely on the Treos Not getting an update due to the amount of customization Palm has done to WM5. I'd also doubt that the iPaq 69xx series will get an upgrade.

Devices that may get an upgrade? Honestly I have no idea, but I wouldn't be surpised if only new devices will have WM6 :( Of course, this is just speculation!

[Lex]

BUT - - Will alarms and reminders sound on time and does 'X' really close ?

[Avalanche]

Hey!

Are we just going to ignore Huangzhinong's
comment?

Using it for 2 month(s) now!

How do we get it?

[SteveHoward999]

2 years and everybody wets their pants over HTML email? The only email I get that 'needs' to be viewed as HTML is the SPAM. If this is the only thing your average user is going to be excited about, I'll be happily avoiding this version ..

[Ed Hansberry]

HTML email support is what I am most excited about. I could not use FlexMail as it did not support Exchange Activesync (for HTML email). I will run it against my soon to be updated Exchange 2007 server (currently 2003).

Question from anyone who has used it as it was not clear in any of the online reviews. When replying to HTML email, is the response also in HTML?

I believe it is a read-only HTML, using PIE to render. Don't think an HTML composition window is part of the package. So, you can't send out more than plain text, but when you get a newsletter, you can at least see something resembling what was intended. In fact, if you click on the link that allows you to edit the HTML that came in as part of your reply, it converts it to text at that point.

And no... X is still not close. :?

Still, it is an overall smoother feel than WM5. They spent some time in the email area.

[Ed Hansberry]

2 years and everybody wets their pants over HTML email? The only email I get that 'needs' to be viewed as HTML is the SPAM. If this is the only thing your average user is going to be excited about, I'll be happily avoiding this version ..

It isn't the only thing, but many will like it. I hate getting my eReader.com newsletters on the device because until now, they were worthless. You can turn it off. WHen you set up an email account, HTML and Text are your receiving options, so you aren't forced to view HTML.

[mm]

Will WM6 Word application be able to read the "new" Office Word docs? I heard that the WM5 Word will not be able to read Office 2007 docs. Excel too?

[Jason Dunn]

Using it for 2 month(s) now! How do we get it?

I can't speak for him, but more than likely it's an illegal ROM leak (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). You won't find us posting instructions on how to do that here.

[Jason Dunn]

Will WM6 Word application be able to read the "new" Office Word docs? I heard that the WM5 Word will not be able to read Office 2007 docs. Excel too?

No, unfortunately it won't read the new document formats at the moment. :?

[Jason Dunn]

BUT - - Will alarms and reminders sound on time and does 'X' really close ?

The "X" doesn't close (and never will)...regarding alarms, it's a bit too early to say, but let's hope so.

[bnycastro]

I don't think any OEM will be offering WM5 to WM6 upgrades, they want us to buy new devices after all :D [I've given up on OS upgrades]
--
It's good to hear that the Smartphones will be getting Word, Excel support finally!
--
I hope we see more Crossbow devices soon [not old devices with Crossbow but the new toys :P].

[huangzhinong]

Hey!

Are we just going to ignore Huangzhinong's
comment?

Using it for 2 month(s) now!

How do we get it?

You shouldn't. Check www.xda-developers.com, thousands of people are using wm6 now.

[bnycastro]

WM6 files have been removed but the discussion is still there [WM6 on Wizard Thread (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=289799)] it's quite long

[JonnoB]

I believe it is a read-only HTML, using PIE to render. Don't think an HTML composition window is part of the package. So, you can't send out more than plain text, but when you get a newsletter, you can at least see something resembling what was intended. In fact, if you click on the link that allows you to edit the HTML that came in as part of your reply, it converts it to text at that point.

Hmmm, well that put a real damper on it. In my office and in between offices, we send emails back and forth and use color, font type, size, etc to communicate ideas. HTML email is excellent for spammers I know, but it is also a real productivity tool. Currently, I hate it when someone says to view their comments in red and I cannot see what is red! Even in this forum, we can use forum codes to highlight and bring attention to certain aspects of our post. I guess at least we can read the message, but once responded to, all of the original content is lost. This is just like the round-trip formatting loss on Word and Excel files. I don't understand the half-way implementation...

[melsam [MS]]

I believe it is a read-only HTML, using PIE to render. Don't think an HTML composition window is part of the package. So, you can't send out more than plain text, but when you get a newsletter, you can at least see something resembling what was intended. In fact, if you click on the link that allows you to edit the HTML that came in as part of your reply, it converts it to text at that point.

Hmmm, well that put a real damper on it. In my office and in between offices, we send emails back and forth and use color, font type, size, etc to communicate ideas. HTML email is excellent for spammers I know, but it is also a real productivity tool. Currently, I hate it when someone says to view their comments in red and I cannot see what is red! Even in this forum, we can use forum codes to highlight and bring attention to certain aspects of our post. I guess at least we can read the message, but once responded to, all of the original content is lost. This is just like the round-trip formatting loss on Word and Excel files. I don't understand the half-way implementation...

Jonno: even though you cannot edit html, existing formatting will not be lost. Your original (sender's) message is kept intact and will persist the highlighting and formatting it came with. ONLY if you want to edit text inline will you lose existing formatting.

-Mel

[virain]

I have been using WM6 for 2 month now, and I have to say I am very impressed. There is one thing the post didn't mention: speed. WM6 is much faster than WM5. HTML email, smartdialing (smarter than HTC smartdialer 1.0), becautiful icons, new email wizard and fast responses make it a must-have upgrade for WM5 users. BTW, the updated calendar is very nice too.


That will only encourage HTC and other penny-pitchers to use TI OMAP 210 Mhz processors and kill all the good agood thing in the name of a profits! 0X

[SteveHoward999]

> In my office and in between offices, we send emails back and
> forth and use color, font type, size, etc to communicate ideas.
> HTML email is excellent for spammers I know, but it is also a
> real productivity tool. Currently, I hate it when someone says
>to view their comments in red and I cannot
> see what is red!


*obviously* it won't help _you_ in your office, but there are PLENTY of ways to make comments etc completely clear without the need to use HTML

;-)

[TOCA]

2 years and everybody wets their pants over HTML email? The only email I get that 'needs' to be viewed as HTML is the SPAM. If this is the only thing your average user is going to be excited about, I'll be happily avoiding this version ..

I'm getting a lot of newsletters in HTML, and they mostly loose their readabillity when converted to txt, so the possibillity to receve HTML mail, is a big thing for me 8)

I know that most spam is also HTML, but with a reasonable filter on the server, that is not a big problem, and maybe some day we will see a spam filter for PPC's as well?

[taupe]

I have been using WM6 for 2 month now, and I have to say I am very impressed. There is one thing the post didn't mention: speed. WM6 is much faster than WM5. HTML email, smartdialing (smarter than HTC smartdialer 1.0), becautiful icons, new email wizard and fast responses make it a must-have upgrade for WM5 users. BTW, the updated calendar is very nice too.

Does software made for WM5 work on WM6? Have you tried installing Flash player (http://www.adobe.com/products/flashplayer_pocketpc/) for WM5 on WM6?

[mullins]

One of the more interesting changes I picked up from the screen shots was a Windows Update for Mobile.

This is a fundamental change in the distribution model. This could mean we no longer have to wait for a device manufacturer to release OS updates.

That is a BIG change, in my mind.

Don Mullins
hw6925

[huangzhinong]

Does software made for WM5 work on WM6? Have you tried installing Flash player (http://www.adobe.com/products/flashplayer_pocketpc/) for WM5 on WM6?

The only application which doesn't run on wm6 is batterystatus 0.04, but the 0.03 runs well.

[taupe]

Does software made for WM5 work on WM6? Have you tried installing Flash player (http://www.adobe.com/products/flashplayer_pocketpc/) for WM5 on WM6?

The only application which doesn't run on wm6 is batterystatus 0.04, but the 0.03 runs well.

Thanks! So can I assume that you have installed Flash player for WM5 on your WM6 and it runs without problem?

[Jason Dunn]

*obviously* it won't help _you_ in your office, but there are PLENTY of ways to make comments etc completely clear without the need to use HTML

This is a "classic" argument with people on both sides of the fence. The reality is though that people ARE using HTML for email whether you like it or not, so people being able to read it on Windows Mobile devices is important. No one says you have to use it, but scolding others for being excited about it is a bit, well, odd. :wink:

[Damion Chaplin]

• Internet sharing: there's a new built-in application to make using your device as a modem much easier

This is the bullet that caught my eye. Using my WM phone as a modem has always been a nightmare - and just try asking Cingular for help. Thier usual response is "Oh, you have to pay for unlimited data access at $80 per month for that feature," which is, of course, complete BS.

Mobile Office on Smartphone is the other big feature I'd love to have on my 3125. It's pretty inexcusable that they limited it to PPC devices. Were they waiting for more Smartphones to have keyboards?

[JonnoB]

]
Jonno: even though you cannot edit html, existing formatting will not be lost. Your original (sender's) message is kept intact and will persist the highlighting and formatting it came with. ONLY if you want to edit text inline will you lose existing formatting.


That is good to know... but it still lessens the ability for me to send messages with emphasis which defeats at least half of the value of html/rich email. I hope that this is just a step towards a final complete solution or perhaps an app like FlexMail will fill in the rest of the way. Also note that many people do occasionally do inline editing in a similar way that people use quoting on this forum people like to use the inline editing available in the desktop Outlook whereby people's name or initials are inserted in color along with the edits. Mostly, I at least want to respond and have the ability to select font and color.

As I see it, the original html email will be kept intact on a reply. Even if inline editing were not allowed, why not use the Mobile Word engine to create a richtext reply and combine the richtext response with the original email at the server?

[TOCA]

The only application which doesn't run on wm6 is batterystatus 0.04, but the 0.03 runs well.

Hmmm.....How about Adobe Reader, will that finally work again? It's been a big miss in WM 5.

***long quote edited by moderator JD***

[Jason Dunn]

Guys, I'm going to respectfully ask that you cease all discussion about the XDA-Developers version of Windows Mobile 6. Just like I'd put my foot down on any thread that was opening discussing warez versions of a developer's application (Conduits, Web IS, Spb, etc.) I need to remind everyone that just because you can get a copy of WM6 that might work with your device, that doesn't mean you should. Warez are warez, no matter where it comes from or whom originally made it.

[kiwi]

i'm pleased to see the S620 is the device being used for wm6! May mean I can upgrade! yay! I just heard T-Mobile are going to offer WM6 devices in Q2 of 2007 too.. I am guessing an updated TMobile Dash?

[SteveHoward999]

No one says you have to use it, but scolding others for being excited about it is a bit, well, odd. :wink:

Yes it would be. Had I scolded anypne, I would have been very odd.

[ddwire]

will wm6 support 320x320 for the treo from sprint? if so will that be a hardware or software change?
I ask this because my ppc6601 has died and ii am thinking of moving to the wm treo from sprint and will be upset if a higher res screen comes out after I purchase the current model.
this news makes my decision hard on what to upgrade too.

[Jason Dunn]

Yes it would be. Had I scolded anypne, I would have been very odd.

Your words: "2 years and everybody wets their pants over HTML email?"

Seems a bit condescending, no?

[RogueSpear]

Well it looks like I'll be getting at least another couple years of use from my trusty 3975. Hopefully WM7 will actually have something compelling. This is about as useful and worthwhile as Vista. As a long time Microsoft supporter (DOS days), these last couple of years have been positively demoralizing.

EDIT: On the bright side of things at least they didn't implement WGA into this one.

[virain]

Hmmm.....How about Adobe Reader, will that finally work again? It's been a big miss in WM 5.

***long quote edited by moderator JD***

I'm not sure what do you mean by that. Adobe Reader works fine on my Mio A701 that runs WM5 :?

[Menneisyys]

Hmmm.....How about Adobe Reader, will that finally work again? It's been a big miss in WM 5.

***long quote edited by moderator JD***

I'm not sure what do you mean by that. Adobe Reader works fine on my Mio A701 that runs WM5 :?

He meant the installer doesn't run - a very common problem with WM5 &amp; the adobe installer.

While you can install and use the CAB file directly (I've even made it available for download to help people that can't install it to the PDA via the standard installer), you can't install the ActiveSync plug-in to do the tagging. It's the only thing you'll miss when you install the CAB directly on your PDA.

[Menneisyys]

Well it looks like I'll be getting at least another couple years of use from my trusty 3975. Hopefully WM7 will actually have something compelling. This is about as useful and worthwhile as Vista. As a long time Microsoft supporter (DOS days), these last couple of years have been positively demoralizing.

EDIT: On the bright side of things at least they didn't implement WGA into this one.

well, WM5 was a big step ahead, stability-wise. I've always made tons of system / protocol-level compliance / stability checking and WM5 is FAR better than WM2003SE in this respect. WM6 ditto - it has a LOT of bugfixes under the hood.

That is, you get MUCH more than just some new and/or updated apps - stability, compatibility.

[Menneisyys]

will wm6 support 320x320 for the treo from sprint? if so will that be a hardware or software change?
I ask this because my ppc6601 has died and ii am thinking of moving to the wm treo from sprint and will be upset if a higher res screen comes out after I purchase the current model.
this news makes my decision hard on what to upgrade too.

you mean the Palm Treo 650/680p? The 700w/750w only have a 240*240 screen, unlike the Palm models with teh 320*320 screen.

That is, it's NOT possible to run WM6 on the 650/680p.

[Menneisyys]

I have been using WM6 for 2 month now, and I have to say I am very impressed. There is one thing the post didn't mention: speed. WM6 is much faster than WM5. HTML email, smartdialing (smarter than HTC smartdialer 1.0), becautiful icons, new email wizard and fast responses make it a must-have upgrade for WM5 users. BTW, the updated calendar is very nice too.

Does software made for WM5 work on WM6? Have you tried installing Flash player (http://www.adobe.com/products/flashplayer_pocketpc/) for WM5 on WM6?

It's working flawlessly.

I've done some serious compatibility testing (with the emulator); I haven't found almost any incompatibility issues. This is unlike, say, the WM2003SE -> WM5 or PPC2k2 -> WM2003 transition, where only 85-90% of legacy apps/games worked on the new platform.

[Menneisyys]

Some of the highlights include:

• Full support for HTML email (within the limitations of IE Mobile's rendering engine of course)
• Office Mobile now included, with support for reading and editing Office documents on the Smartphone
• New streamlined functioning of email client: one click delete, reply, etc. Set email flags for follow-up.
• Set "Out of Office" function directly on the device (with an Exchange server of course)
• Windows Vista synchronization with Windows Mobile Device Center
• Calendar ribbon in the calendar application gives you the ability to see your free/busy time easier
• Windows Live client
• Call History is now a part of the contact itself, so you can see when you last phoned that person, etc.
• Internet sharing: there's a new built-in application to make using your device as a modem much easier


Also, the new Remote Desktop Mobile is VERY cool compared to the earlier, REALLY inferior TSC - see for example my related posts here (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=53235).

[ddwire]

in my earlier post I meant the sprint version 700wx. it runs 240x240. does wm6 support the 320x320 res? if so is the screen really a 320x320 like the palm version or not?

I want to know if we will see a new windows treo or fix for current one.
thanks

[SteveHoward999]

Yes it would be. Had I scolded anypne, I would have been very odd.

Your words: "2 years and everybody wets their pants over HTML email?"

Seems a bit condescending, no?

That's a matter of opinion. But still absolutely did not scold anyone.

[Ed Hansberry]

in my earlier post I meant the sprint version 700wx. it runs 240x240. does wm6 support the 320x320 res? if so is the screen really a 320x320 like the palm version or not?

I want to know if we will see a new windows treo or fix for current one.
thanks

Technically, yes, WM supports 320X, but that isn't your problem. The 700w and 750 screens only have 240x240 pixels. They are not the same hardware in the 650, 680 and 700p. It is up to the OEM to put the higher resolution screen in, the OS supports it.

[jgrnt1]

Also note that many people do occasionally do inline editing in a similar way that people use quoting on this forum people like to use the inline editing available in the desktop Outlook whereby people's name or initials are inserted in color along with the edits. Mostly, I at least want to respond and have the ability to select font and color.

I agree. Every month, we get a series of questions from a VP regarding our previous month's performance. The reply is much more readable if I insert my answers directly after each question, in a contrasting color. If I just replied with my answers, anyone who read the email would have to keep scrolling up and down between the questions and answers. If I had to cut and paste or retype the questions, it would create more work for me.

I often respond to email this way, because it saves the readers from having to scroll up and down all the time. I put a note at the top -- Please see my responses below in blue.

edit -- I still occasionally get somebody in our headquarters who will say, "We can't use color because not everyone has color printers." They might be running an 8088 with a monochrome monitor, too, but the ability to use color and font changes for emphasis is a valuable tool.

[ddwire]

in my earlier post I meant the sprint version 700wx. it runs 240x240. does wm6 support the 320x320 res? if so is the screen really a 320x320 like the palm version or not?

I want to know if we will see a new windows treo or fix for current one.
thanks

Technically, yes, WM supports 320X, but that isn't your problem. The 700w and 750 screens only have 240x240 pixels. They are not the same hardware in the 650, 680 and 700p. It is up to the OEM to put the higher resolution screen in, the OS supports it.

Ok, thanks that answers one question that the hardware is different.
So "new for WM6 is support for 320x320" right, because if WM5 supported it why ddidn't the 750wx have 320x320 lie the palm version?

[Jason Dunn]

So "new for WM6 is support for 320x320" right, because if WM5 supported it why ddidn't the 750wx have 320x320 lie the palm version?

There are a lot of reasons why 240 x 240 would be used instead of 320 x 320 - mostly for battery and CPU reasons. 320 x 320 is very near double the amount of total pixels over 240 x 240, and the more pixels you push the harder it is on the CPU and battery. I sure hope we see 320 x 320 devices this year though!

[pradike]

There are a lot of reasons why 240 x 240 would be used instead of 320 x 320 - mostly for battery and CPU reasons. 320 x 320 is very near double the amount of total pixels over 240 x 240, and the more pixels you push the harder it is on the CPU and battery. I sure hope we see 320 x 320 devices this year though!
:soapbox: I continue to be amazed at the "convergence" adopters. How anyone can do any practical functionality on those rinky-dinky screens is beyond me.

Watching folks run into walls and posts while they are attempting to read or respond to e-mails on their tiny size screens pressing those munchkin keyboard pads on their "smartphones" --- now that's one of the funniest sights to see in airports today. From what many of my business associates have also observed, neither the phones or their users are often anything but "smart". :roll:

While my good old Pocket PC is still running strong and performing the limited things it needs to (contacts, calendar, and reminders), I surely don't run my office tasks on it. A PDA is a PDA is a PDA. A Cell phone is a Cell Phone is a Cell Phone. Crossing the two together is almost criminal. It's kinda like watching HDTV on a 27" or smaller screen - it defeats any benefit or the main purpose.

By the way...the day I have to carry one of those Crackberry-like devices around with me just to return e-mail 3 seconds after someone sends it to me is the day I find a new job. If someone really needs me that badly, my cell phone works just fine, thank you....and IT gets shut off at 5PM. It's called having a life. :frusty:

P.T. Barnum was right. :rotfl:

Whew.....now I feel so much better. :crazyeyes:

[TOCA]

He meant the installer doesn't run - a very common problem with WM5 &amp; the adobe installer.

Thanks :D

[ddwire]

So "new for WM6 is support for 320x320" right, because if WM5 supported it why ddidn't the 750wx have 320x320 lie the palm version?

There are a lot of reasons why 240 x 240 would be used instead of 320 x 320 - mostly for battery and CPU reasons. 320 x 320 is very near double the amount of total pixels over 240 x 240, and the more pixels you push the harder it is on the CPU and battery. I sure hope we see 320 x 320 devices this year though!

I sure hope they switch the wm Treo to 320x320 because the 240x240 is a pain on the postage stam sized screen.
I have been using both the Sprint treo 700wx and 700p for the past few days and the palm screen is much better for any thing other than calendar, contacts and email.
The excel in the palm version is actually usable with the 320x320, as the text is very sharp even at the small size.

[joelevi]

I sure hope they switch the wm Treo to 320x320 because the 240x240 is a pain on the postage stam sized screen.

I have been using both the Sprint treo 700wx and 700p for the past few days and the palm screen is much better for any thing other than calendar, contacts and email.

The excel in the palm version is actually usable with the 320x320, as the text is very sharp even at the small size.

The root of the screen resolution debate is less about what the "OS can support", or what the "screen can support" than it is about where the two OS's (Windows Mobile versus Palm) get their native screen resolutions from.

Windows Mobile (yes, even all the way pack to Handheld PCs and Palm PC's, remember those?) has always been based around the VGA model (640x480) or some even ratio of it.

Current Pocket PCs are (mainly) qVGA (quarter VGA) 240x320, with some at 240x240. How does one get this ratio?

Take VGA (640x480), rotate it 90 degrees (480x640) and take 1/4 of the pixels (half of each number). You end up with 240x320.

Now, Microsoft decided early on to offer a SIP (Soft Input Panel) rather than Palm's "scratch pad". This difference meant that, unlike Palm's square display, Microsoft could choose to free up the real-estate occupied by the SIP when it was not in use. Good move.

But that left Microsoft with a rectangular screen. They went with that. They built icons and other UI around the qVGA model. When square screens came around, they simply truncated the bottom of the screen, it was still 240 wide, so all the icons and UI still worked, but it wasn't as tall, therefore scrollbars might be seen more often -- but the icons didn't change.

Then came TRUE VGA (again, rotated 90 degrees) -- 480x640. This required Microsoft (an application providers) to create sets of bigger icons for the bigger display. Any applications that weren't "VGA Aware" simply had their icons "doubled" -- and they looked pretty blurry, but it was easy to simply double the pixels.

So what happened to 320x320? Well, since 320 is 1.5 times larger than 240, and 1.5 times smaller than 480, to handle this resolution Microsoft and all application providers would have to make another icon set, and for those that weren't "320 aware", how do you make a pixel 1.5 times as big as it was, or 1.5 times as small? It just doesn't work out.

So, you'll probably NEVER see a 320x320 Windows Mobile device... it's much more likely that you'll see a 480x480 device (since that's a truncated VGA screen and would use the "VGA Aware" icon set).

Why don't we see 480x480 screens today? They're simply too expensive right now.

So... hopefully that didn't confuse y'all too much.

Questions?

- Joe Levi, www.JoeLevi.com

[ddwire]

Thankyou, Too bad though. The 240x240 will keep alot of people away from the Windows TReo and send them to the palm version with the superior screen.

[Rob Alexander]

Well what I am eagerly anticipating is finding out which really great indespensible feature of WM5 they've removed from WM6. We never get those listed in the bullet points, but so far we've lost at least one great feature with every new version. (Of course, we've also gained features, but wouldn't it be nice to only gain features and not lose any?) So what will it be this time?

[woa1]

Does Office Mobile finally add the ability to open password protected excel or word files? If I remember correctly, this option used to be available in older Pocket Office versions. If not, I guess will have to stick with OfficeMaker.

Thx

[Ed Hansberry]

There are a lot of reasons why 240 x 240 would be used instead of 320 x 320 - mostly for battery and CPU reasons. 320 x 320 is very near double the amount of total pixels over 240 x 240, and the more pixels you push the harder it is on the CPU and battery. I sure hope we see 320 x 320 devices this year though!

I sure hope they switch the wm Treo to 320x320 because the 240x240 is a pain on the postage stam sized screen.[/quote]
That makes no sense. The smaller the screen, the higher the pixel density, so on a "postage stamp sized screen" a lower resolution would look just fine. I honestly think some complain about the resolution just because 320X320 looks better on paper.

I just switched back from a VGA JasJar to a QVGA Wizard and that screen has about the same pixel density as a Treo and it looks just fine.

[ddwire]

Ed, I am not a palm person but have been using both the palm treo and windows version from sprint for week side by side.
open any excel file and you will what I mean. most web sites do fine with either screen, as well as email and contacts, but try to use textmaker on the 240x240 and you will just give up, same with excel.
in my opinion the windows version is easier to use one handed, and I prefer the windows, but the 320x320 screen of the palm will more atractive to all but true windows dihards.
Dan

[Ed Hansberry]

open any excel file and you will what I mean.

on that I agree. the one thing I dislike on the qvga resolutions is the inability to zoom to 50%. that is the only thing I see though that is a serious issue, and I wonder how many PPC users use Excel?

I honestly think qvga with cleartype for 95% of the stuff people do is sufficient on the small screens like the treo and wizard where the PPI is high. it isn't on larger screen devices like the old PDA2K or non-vga axims or ipaqs.

[SteveHoward999]

So what happened to 320x320? Well, since 320 is 1.5 times larger than 240, and 1.5 times smaller than 480, to handle this resolution Microsoft and all application providers would have to make another icon set, and for those that weren't "320 aware", how do you make a pixel 1.5 times as big as it was, or 1.5 times as small? It just doesn't work out.

Man this explanation is even dumber than the official Microsoft one. There is no need to resize the icons.

[Ed Hansberry]

Man this explanation is even dumber than the official Microsoft one. There is no need to resize the icons.
so, just let everything get 33% smaller? icons, text, buttons, the SIP? that makes a lot of sense.

[joelevi]

So what happened to 320x320? Well, since 320 is 1.5 times larger than 240, and 1.5 times smaller than 480, to handle this resolution Microsoft and all application providers would have to make another icon set, and for those that weren't "320 aware", how do you make a pixel 1.5 times as big as it was, or 1.5 times as small? It just doesn't work out.

Man this explanation is even dumber than the official Microsoft one. There is no need to resize the icons.

As sad as it sounds, I heard that directly from the mouth of a Microsoft employee in the Windows Mobile development group talking about VGA and qVGA screen resoultions.

Forgive me, but I failed to note his name/position and the link to the webcast, but that's the "official" Microsoft reason straight from their developers.

- Joe Levi, www.JoeLevi.com

[SteveHoward999]

Man this explanation is even dumber than the official Microsoft one. There is no need to resize the icons.
so, just let everything get 33% smaller? icons, text, buttons, the SIP? that makes a lot of sense.

You know, when you resize a window on your deskop, things just move, maybe even reflow. You get more 'work' space. You get more area for the text your reading. Nothing scales. It doesn't need to.

So why the dickens is everybody so obsessed with insisting things have to rescale on PocketPC, instead of making proper use of the screen real estate?

[JonnoB]

Most of us had 3.5/3.8 inch screens and now have 2.8 inch at the same resolution, no one cares that the icons got smaller. I see no reason to scale icons. If screens where available at various resolutions the icons would stay the same.

[Ed Hansberry]

You know, when you resize a window on your deskop, things just move, maybe even reflow. You get more 'work' space. You get more area for the text your reading. Nothing scales. It doesn't need to.
change your screen resolution and then tell me things don't scale. we are talking abour resolution after all, not window dimensions.

[SteveHoward999]

change your screen resolution and then tell me things don't scale. we are talking abour resolution after all, not window dimensions.


No, we are talking about the number of pixels.

To you, whatever label you put on it, you apparently think it is right and proper to rescale.

To me, everything is pixels. So no rescaling. Simple.

Microsoft has pulled off the most amazing bit of magic by convincing people that square screens are correctly 240x240 on the pocketPC, forcing developers to redevelop all their software, and many users to buy new software. If they had stopped the drivel and just given us 320 x 320 screens, all existing software could have worked fine, even if it left an unused area of the screen. No need for rescaling. No need for software redesigns. No need for silly conversations like this.

Microsoft do a lot of great things. In this they have been manipulative and forced us to swallow an inferior product (you must have a 240x240 screen) at their own whim. Then they were forced to make up silly excuses that people actually believe.

[Ed Hansberry]

change your screen resolution and then tell me things don't scale. we are talking abour resolution after all, not window dimensions.


No, we are talking about the number of pixels.
Resolution is pixels. what do you think the numbers mean in resolution settings?

[SteveHoward999]

Resolution is pixels. what do you think the numbers mean in resolution settings?


There is no resolution setting on pocket pc. You have a fixed resolution device, therefore resolution in the sense of scaling is of no relevance.

[Ed Hansberry]

Resolution is pixels. what do you think the numbers mean in resolution settings?


There is no resolution setting on pocket pc. You have a fixed resolution device, therefore resolution in the sense of scaling is of no relevance.
The resolution is set by the hardware, and we were talking about swtiching from 240x240 to 320x320, so there is a change of scaling to be dealth with. I don't know why this is so hard to understand.

http://www.ehansberry.com/pages/images/todayscrn20060812.jpg http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/hansberry/2007/20070211-320x480.jpg

The image on the left is normal 240X320. Scale it on your screen so it is about the size of a 2.8 inch screen. Now, the image on the right is 320X480 - the rectangular version of the 320x320. Scale it so it is also, including the white space, about the size of a 2.8 inch screen.

Now, you are seriously going to tell me that the average consumer is going to want to deal with those tiny icons, the tiny text, checkboxes, etc? If so, then you don't understand the average consumer at all. They want to glance at things and have them easy to read, not be some techno uber geek with the ultra-small font setting enabled so they can say that they have all this stuff crammed on the screen they have to squint at. You wouldn't believe how many people I know that have LCD screens for their PCs that are in this semi-blury mode because they like to run 1024x768 on a 17 inch LCD that natively runs 1280x1024 or 1400x1050. The average person doesn't like tiny fonts, buttons and icons. THey want it to be comfortable to use and easy to tap or click on.

If scaling isn't important, then why don't PalmOS screens show 4 times the info on them than they did with their 160x160 devices? Because they scaled everything to 320x320 by pixel doubling or redoing the icons and UI to suit the new resolution. Why do you think the VGA pocket PCs don't show 4 times the info than their QVGA counterparts? Same reason.

So what in the world makes you think MS and/or the OEMs would just slap a 320x320 screen on the device and let everything just get smaller?

[SteveHoward999]

The resolution is set by the hardware, and we were talking about swtiching from 240x240 to 320x320, so there is a change of scaling to be dealth with. I don't know why this is so hard to understand.



It's because Microsoft has successfully brainwashed you into believing a different number of pixels means you have to scale on a poclketPC, instead of just putting a different amount of information on screen as per a desktop PC.

Because you are so absolutely brainwashed, you cannot see or understand this.

[ddwire]

I am kind of sorry for starting this but, I agree in the fact if Microsoft would have put the 320x320 screen in the Treo like the Palm version all would be happy.

The palm version does not scale icons when web browsing yet when you visit the same site on each device the Palm version shows more information clearer than the windows one. I have some excel sheets that are basic but contain about 12 columes and 200 rows, on the palm I can see a-e and rows 1-16 very clear. On the Windows version I see a&amp;b and rows 1&amp;2. If I zoom down to 50% I can see about the same information on the windows version, but cannot read it because it is blurry. All of my software that was cut off on the 240x240 would have looked fine with 320x320.

I kept the palm version and returned the windows one soly due to the screen, and I would much rather have the windows one if the screens were equal, as none of my software works and the Palm is foreign to me.

The windows version is superior for what I do except for the poor screen, as soon as MS wakes up and gives it the 320x320 I will dump the Palm and switch.
Dan

[JonnoB]

When VGA capable devices first came out, there were multiple hacks to get the real-estate back and hacks were therefore developed and released which took advantage of that. So I think there is a consumer subset that wants the higher resolution to just mean get more Today screen content or just more information on the same device.

I see the same thing in the desktop world. I remember when people were running 640x480 or 800x600 desktops on 14 and 15 inch monitors. I and many of the people I know ran 1280x1024 to get more value out of that screen. Than, as resolution increased, so did monitor size average. I now see people with 21 inch monitors with much higher resolutions. There is a subset of customers however that still run 800x600 or some resolution less than the monitors capability. This is for some a matter of preference (style?) and for some, a matter of visibility (poor vision).

Since the PocketPC OS and screen unlike a desktop screen cannot yet display multiple resolutions on the same device I believe that MS erred on the side of those whose vision is impaired in some way. I know for example that some of my sight-impaired friends wouldn't want a 2.8" qVGA device like my Wizard and opting instead for one of those giant 3.8" or 4" devices with the same screen resolution.

In reality, Microsoft would do us all a favor by having a higher resolution screen (like VGA 640x480) on all devices regardless of screen physical dimensions and then let the OS display according to user settings. I say this without however, contemplating the drawbacks on battery life which I admit is one of the likely reasons this has not happened.

[Nurhisham Hussein]

Guy's you're in luck - WM6 will support 320x320, along with a funky WVGA resolution (800x480).

[PCDR]

I can't believe no one has asked about Internet Exploder! I am hoping, dreaming of an improved version in WM6. Please say it's so!

[Powderfinger]

HTML e-mail, what is the big deal with that? I have been able to do this with Windows Mobile 2003 for years using Mail2PDA! Works great.

[JonnoB]

HTML e-mail, what is the big deal with that? I have been able to do this with Windows Mobile 2003 for years using Mail2PDA! Works great.
How does your Exchange Server push html mail to you?

[PCDR]

I can't believe no one has asked about Internet Exploder! I am hoping, dreaming of an improved version in WM6. Please say it's so!

[poddie]

So what happened to 320x320? Well, since 320 is 1.5 times larger than 240, and 1.5 times smaller than 480, to handle this resolution Microsoft and all application providers would have to make another icon set, and for those that weren't "320 aware", how do you make a pixel 1.5 times as big as it was, or 1.5 times as small? It just doesn't work out.

Man this explanation is even dumber than the official Microsoft one. There is no need to resize the icons.

Goodness, you certainly do come across as quite caustic and impolite in most of your messages (in this thread at least).

There was an entire topic on the 240x240/320x320 debate on the Windows Mobile Team Blog that covered all the reasons they had not implemented it.

Essentially, JoeLevi’s summary is entirely correct. See here:
http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/archive/2006/02/14/531972.aspx

I’m not sure why you feel the need to be so confrontational to people here, but I hope you can work out whatever the issue is.

[SteveHoward999]

Goodness, you certainly do come across as quite caustic and impolite in most of your messages (in this thread at least).

There was an entire topic on the 240x240/320x320 debate on the Windows Mobile Team Blog that covered all the reasons they had not implemented it.

Essentially, JoeLevi’s summary is entirely correct. See here:


Yes I know. Microsoft has everyone swallowing that idea. I don't. I think it is a pathetic excuse for making a hardware-limiting decision that has nothing to do with the tripe they feed us as a reason. And I'm angry about what I see as lies.

I'm also amused that you feel the need to point out this stuff to me, since you quoted my comment about their wet excuses.

Don't like what I have to say about it? Well I am sure I am more annoyed at MS than you could ever be at me :-)

[poddie]

Yes I know. Microsoft has everyone swallowing that idea. I don't. I think it is a pathetic excuse for making a hardware-limiting decision that has nothing to do with the tripe they feed us as a reason. And I'm angry about what I see as lies.

I'm also amused that you feel the need to point out this stuff to me, since you quoted my comment about their wet excuses.

Don't like what I have to say about it? Well I am sure I am more annoyed at MS than you could ever be at me :-)

First of all, the line I quoted from you was:

Man this explanation is even dumber than the official Microsoft one. There is no need to resize the icons.

This implies that you think his explanation and Microsoft's are different, which implies to me that you may not have seen this particular explanation from them.

And frankly, the link is more for others anyway. I understand you have already made up your mind, and there is obviously not going to be any changing of it. But others may be interested in the line of thinking that led to the decisions, and more detail about the possible pitfalls of implementing 320x320.

I'm not sure how this issue has generated so much hostility, but I suppose it is good for people to be pasionate about things.

I will say I would be very interested in any comments Microsoft would make about the new support of 320x320. Obviously, they now feel they have an appropriate solution or workaround. I hope they are right... I really don't want to stare at apps that only fill the upper-left corner of the screen, or have a box around them making them illegible on small screens.