State of affairs with converged devices

[Lex]

I'd like to measure the state of affairs with converged devices today. I carry two devices because I want a full screen PDA and a strong, reliable cellphone. If a PDA is only a PDA, it has to be a PDA ! My phone has to work as a phone; That's all it does. People seem willing to accept deficiencies just to have the convenience of a converged device. Your thoughts?

[Nurhisham Hussein]

I'm firmly in the two device camp, largely because I haven't found a single device that had everything that I wanted, and could fit my usage patterns.

[Lex]

Moderators, feel free to edit this poll ! I just realized I should have put another option. It should also be possible to vote "I use a converged device and it's a great phone and PDA." Sorry I forgot to do that but 'Edit' won't allow me to change the poll. Please say so if you have such a device; I want to know if one's out there. Then my cell company probably doesn't carry it and won't allow me to activate it. :-)

[ntractv]

I was a firm two device person, but a few months ago I changed my mind and went with the Treo 700w. Nice concept. Poor implementation. Memory is horrible. The whole system as a PDA is sluggish. Tempted to go back to two devices and blow the dust off of my iPAQ 5555.

[drowe]

I carry two devices because I want a full screen PDA and a strong, reliable cellphone... People seem willing to accept deficiencies just to have the convenience of a converged device...

My thoughts exactly!

[MitchellO]

Moderators, feel free to edit this poll ! I just realized I should have put another option. It should also be possible to vote "I use a converged device and it's a great phone and PDA." Sorry I forgot to do that but 'Edit' won't allow me to change the poll.

I guess I will have to wait until then :D I love every aspect of my Treo 750v (except it could be a tad thinner)

[Sven Johannsen]

Moderators, feel free to edit this poll ! I just realized I should have put another option. It should also be possible to vote "I use a converged device and it's a great phone and PDA." Sorry I forgot to do that but 'Edit' won't allow me to change the poll. Please say so if you have such a device; I want to know if one's out there. Then my cell company probably doesn't carry it and won't allow me to activate it. :-)

Guess you missed two options then. How about I use a converged device and it lacks on both sides, but I live with it.

I find that the form factor is an issue. Either the device is a bit too small to really be a great PDA like an Axim X50, or a a bit too big to be a comfortable phone. You can mitigate a big device like a JasJar with a BT headset, but then you are back to carrying two things all the time.

That said, I typically carry a K-Jam, because I want to carry one thing, and I am a PDA centric guy. If I spent more time on the phone, I would probably go Smartphone.

[SteveHoward999]

I have a Toshiba E830 and a Nokia E62. Each has features I would enjoy on the other.

If I could add a keyboard and phone (for the 'always on' internet) to the Toshiba, that would be cool.

If I could add SD and CF slots, Wi-Fi, large VGA screen, touchscreen and general power to the phone, that would be cool too.

The one device that comes closest seems to be the Athena, but it is just too big even for me, and definitely too expensive! OK the HTC Universal too, but it needs to be quad band and less than $500 before I would consider it a viable option. Plus it's close to 2 years old now.

Time for some genuine affordable advances in the PocketPC/SmartPhone arena I think ...

[FallN]

The poll definitely needs to include "I have a converged device & it's great as both a phone & a pda".

My iPaq 6945 is a solid performing PPC, a phone with great reception AND an intergrated GPS device all in one. I couldn't be happier with it's performance.

Currently, there isn't another device that I want over my 6945 on the market. Not even any of the recently announced or upcoming devices. It's that solid, stable & feature packed.

I'll only switch for a future device that offers a 624Mhz (or more) processor, WiFi g/n, BT 2.0, GPS, 3 or 4G data speeds, 128MBs RAM (or more), 256MBs ROM (or more), 3"+ VGA touchscreen, static thumboard, VGA Out & USB host with stellar battery life in a small, thin, light shell.

Until then, I'll stick with what I have. I couldn't be more pleased. :)

[disconnected]

How about.....I still have two, but would kind of like to have just one, if only one existed with a large VGA screen, etc.

Actually, I'm perfectly happy with two, except that my iPAQ 4700 is aging (force required for screen presses varies in different parts of the screen now), and there is nothing new with the same features (4" VGA screen and two slots). :(

[SteveHoward999]

Actually, I'm perfectly happy with two, except that my iPAQ 4700 is aging (force required for screen presses varies in different parts of the screen now), and there is nothing new with the same features (4" VGA screen and two slots). :(


Before I got the E62, I was happy with 2 devices. I also have a Nokia 6682 which is a great little phone, but useless (for me) if I want to reply to emails or do any other sort of typing.

Now I have the E62, I can see that I could be happy with a single device, but the device I want does not exist yet.

[galt]

If there was an option for "I'm totally converged but both the phone and PDA still lack a bit" I'd take it. I've even dumped my wallet and gone with a device case that has slots for credit cards and cash. If only I could find a device that would unlock my car and home then I could leave my keys and just walk out of the house with the one thing in my pocket. :D

[Darius Wey]

Moderators, feel free to edit this poll ! I just realized I should have put another option. It should also be possible to vote "I use a converged device and it's a great phone and PDA." Sorry I forgot to do that but 'Edit' won't allow me to change the poll. Please say so if you have such a device; I want to know if one's out there. Then my cell company probably doesn't carry it and won't allow me to activate it. :-)

Updated, and I added Sven's suggestion too.

I'm in the "great phone and PDA" camp. My X500 has a great form factor and almost everything I need - except maybe a QWERTY keyboard, but I'll live. ;)

[Lex]

Thank you Darius ! The survey just got improved since this amateur created it. :-) But the stats are trashed since the choices changed mid-stream. Maybe an 'official' poll done by PPCT professionals would be better via the main page?

[Darius Wey]

Thank you Darius ! The survey just got improved since this amateur created it. :-) But the stats are trashed since the choices changed mid-stream. Maybe an 'official' poll done by PPCT professionals would be better via the main page?

Better option: I'll give this thread some front-page exposure (edit: it'll go live in an hour).

I'm expecting there to be an influx of hundreds/thousands of votes, so the forty-four votes currently placed shouldn't skew the final result too much. :)

[Macguy59]

Much prefer a converged device. My Motorola Q serves my needs well and I expect the iPhone to make the experience even better.

[stuxstu]

How about adding I use a converged and non-converged device?

I have a Cingular 2125 to carry my personal calendar and a HP 2495 for work calendar, email, PIM, and other work related things. I need PDA features during the week and smartphone on the weekend. I loved my Hp6500 for the two weeks I had it, until I nearly drop the thing in a hardware store. I don't want to change sim cards and I just want a small form factor on the weekend. I know, I'm being picky and lazy.

In the next few months, I might try the Treo 750. I just wish somebody would invent a way to pop sim cards out like SD cards or let me have two phones with one number (tried forwarding). That way I could have the PDA Phone during the week and the little smartphone on the weekend.

BTW - Anybody know how to keep two separate calendars on one device? I need to keep my personal information off the corporate calendar and vice-versa. email me if you have any suggestions....

[pocketpcadmirer]

I voted for:My device is a great phone but has deficiencies as a PDA

I fully accept the fact that a converged device has actually stopped the power-user in me. I have tried every single converged device. From BA to Universal or wizard(currently possessing). No device has managed to give me the comfort and expandability, which my non-converged handhelds used to give. Take a look at X51V or even my trusty iPAQ 2215. Both are fast and expandibility is great too.
Main turn off in current line of PPCPE is small screen. This has stopped me from reading anything on my PPCPE. On the other hand, I used to read a lot on my PDA-only devices :cry:
And not to mention, PPCPE cost almost 3x as compared to non-PPCPE

May be the upcoming XDA flame is for guys like me :idea:

[jgrnt1]

Until a week ago, I was firmly in the two device camp. I had an iPAQ 4700 that I swore I would never give up. The screen is unbeatable. Movies and ebooks were incredible. I had a powered Proclip mount installed in my car. In the car, I used the iPAQ as an mp3 player (Mortplayer) and for navigation (iGuidance). I had a WiFi hard drive in the trunk which served music to the PPC (W?BIC).

Six months ago, I bought a 3G phone, the LG CU500. I began tethering it to my laptop, so I could be connected anywhere. A month ago, I bought a Creative Zen Vision:M, having decided I wanted access to subscription music (I downloaded 2500 songs the first weekend). I now had three devices to carry around.

A week ago, I made the decision to give up the iPAQ and the phone for the Cingular 8525. So far, the change has been wonderful. My eyes are adjusting to the reduced screen real estate, which was my biggest concern. Having instant 'net access has been great. I have always run at least a couple of programs which needed internet access to be truly useful, most notably WeatherPanel and Egress. Now they both stay current no matter where I am. The keyboard is pretty good, the phone seems to have excellent reception, the battery life has been good and so far it seems to be more responsive than the iPAQ.

[marky_uk]

Hi there

I have to agree with everything FallN said - happy with the device functions and concept, but would like some more "raw power".

I've got an HP iPAQ 6910 (the 69series without camera in the UK) on a Vodafone contract and love it. It's my second iPAQ (had 6515 before) and it does all I need. Phone, push email, web, and more and I push the thing hard following the "GTD" method in life!

If it had another 20-50GB of space inside the same form factor, I would ditch my iPod.

If it had a 4" - 6" widescreen, record video from TV/DVD, playback to TV via s-video ... i wouldn't want it ... but I could then ditch my Archos (but I don't want a bigger PDA, as mine is just right size).

If it had a bigger screen and keyboard, I would ditch my very lovely Thinkpad ... but I don't want to carry that in my pocket, or put it to my ear.

So I'm happy! Just the OS sucks!

[Shaun Stuart]

I have used a single converged device with success but have gone back to two devices, htc artemis and a nokia n73, the reason for this has not been covered in the poll. my employer provides me with a phone or sim card but this does not give me any 3g connectivity - i carry a second device simply to give me access to the internet, my home pc, orb, sling player and video calling.

[Phillip Dyson]

Even before I was converged I was using both an MS Smartphone and tethering it to my E830. Then I went to an Eten m500.

Since then I've returned to two devices and returned to convergence with the TyTN.

The combination of the old OS and the inconvenience of keeping my data sync across the two devices made me make the compromises and converge again.

I'm still trying to find a use for my e830. Perhaps just being nastalgic.

[gavinfabl]

I moved to a converged basis over a year ago. I went to a HTC Universal, but after a month got rid of it as it was too heavy and big for making calls.

I had a MDA Vario, O2 XDA Mini S, Sony M600i and other WM5 phone devices. I bought in November last year a fabulous Fujitsu Siemens T830. However, I sold that a few days ago.

I have moved back to 2 separate devices. An Acer N311 VGA Handheld with a Sony Ericsson K800i. I split the functions between the 2 devices now.

My K800i is used for voice calls, sms, camera (its has a 3.2mp camera with autofocus, flash and photo editing on the device) and as a modem.

My Acer N311 is used for everything else. It has wifi and bluetooth. It connects via bluetooth to my K800i modem. It is used for word, excel, powerpoint (using Softmaker Officer 2006) TomTom6, games, books, and so on and viewing photos, my mp3 player (4gb SD card is in place).

Its a great combo IMO. The best of both worlds. And because my Acer N311 has USB host, I have a keyboard connected to it. Also the cradle is designed to be used with the N311 in landscape mode as well. Cool IMO.

[chu0009]

I am defin in the separate PDA and Phone camp. If one fails ( to repair) I at least still can have the functionality of the other.

[unxmully]

How about.....I still have two, but would kind of like to have just one, if only one existed with a large VGA screen, etc.

Actually, I'm perfectly happy with two, except that my iPAQ 4700 is aging (force required for screen presses varies in different parts of the screen now), and there is nothing new with the same features (4" VGA screen and two slots). :(

Pretty much the same for me, well the second part anyway.

I can't see me using one of the converged devices because if it's big enough to browse on, I don't want it stuck to my ear to make a call (and no, I will not wander round with a bluetooth headset looking like a complete tart thank you) and if it's small enough to make a call on, browsing is hideous.

[ppcinfo]

I was a firm believer in using two separate devices (phone and PDA) because I wanted a small, compact phone that I carried in my front pants pocket (with maximum battery life) and a PDA in my travel bag for contacts, viewing movies, reading files, etc. Also, I have a Dell x50v with a beautiful VGA screen which you really can't find on a phone-PDA combo device.

A few weeks ago, I got a Motorola Q phone running the WM 5 OS as a company phone, and I have to admit that I now really like the combo device functionality. The screen is QVGA and half the size of my x50v, but it still looks good and having the ability to download and send emails wirelessly and conveniently is wonderful. With Google Maps or Window Live, I can also view maps and get directions very quickly on my phone-PDA device. I'm having to sacrifice the ease in using a touch screen, etc. but that doesn't seem to bother me very much. I guess it would be a personal preference on how a person uses their phone and PDA for day-to-day operations, but for me, this Moto-Q phone seems to be a good, effective tool.

ppcinfo

[imitche3]

In addition to all the reasons above.
There is the same reason that you don't buy a TV/VCR or TV/DVD combo. If one breaks, you have to return both your PDA and phone for repair. The other thing is, I have a Hx4700 and in the time I've owned it, I've gone through 3 phones searching for increased data speeds. You buy a converged device, you're stuck with what ever network technology is in place at the time. I believe speeds will continue to increase and cellular technology will continue to improve.

[kamikun]

Let me repost this from over in the Brighthand Toshiba e800 Fanboy Club. We were all getting together and bragging about how kickin' our old school Tosh's are:

Re: so, how old is your e805?
Here's the deal... I've actually got one of those fancy converged WM5 devices, a Sharp W-Zero3 to be exact. Japanese OS, Willcom carrier, 256M Flash ROM, 64M RAM, 3.6 inch VGA screen, full-body slide out keyboard, camera....

But I don't use it.

With the craptackular 1.3 Megapixel camera, severe WM5 memory limitation (remember that WM5 doesn't use ROM for RAM when needed so I'm lucky to have 18M free after a soft-reset) and the ActiveSync 4.0 requirement (which would mean sacrificing WiFi syncing bliss) I simply have not upgraded beyond AS 3.8. Ergo, the WM5 fancy pants phone doesn't get used.

Well, it does a bit. I have manually transferred some CABs over to it (a SD / miniSD pain) and installed a number of apps. But they don't get regular updates. No, this converged device gets used as ... a phone.

A big, VGA screened, useless phone with e800 PDA chugging along happily beside.

I guess if the wife would let me get a second home computer the W-Zero would get a life - but (until then that would happen) only over this e800's dead body.

The Athena has put a bit of fear into my e800's heart but I don't think I'm alone on this one. I have two devices not due to the limitations of either device or prospective device (per se). It's because of the limitations of ActiveSync.

If my Sharp W-Zero3 didn't need to sync to a host computer, it would see a lot more use. I don't want a full-fledged converged device with me everywhere I go though. Too dangerous (might be lost), and it would be too bulky (if it's not bulky then it doesn't have a keyboard or a useably sized screen).

No, I want a cheap, almost disposable, portable phone that can sync to my large-ish converged device. That way, when I'm in business mode I can take the Athena (it's already mine in my mind... 8) ) or e800 sized PPC/phone to do my work or study. And then when I want to be out socially I can slip a cheap $50 phone in my jacket or pants and go.

That cheap phone should then be able to sync to the PPC and (should I want later) I can sync that PPC (or phone - to skip a step) to my host PC for storage of contact data, or editing work files from the PPC, etc.

If the phone gets lost or broken, no tears. Just call my carrier, deactivate the number and go to the local Best Buy or 7-11 and buy a replacement.

Anyone wanna join my paradigm vision?? :P


And why would I ever want to give up teh sexy? (click for bigger) http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/7067/pccapture1mg4.th.jpg (http://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pccapture1mg4.jpg)

[rdrose61]

The poll definitely needs to include "I have a converged device & it's great as both a phone & a pda".

My iPaq 6945 is a solid performing PPC, a phone with great reception AND an intergrated GPS device all in one. I couldn't be happier with it's performance.

Currently, there isn't another device that I want over my 6945 on the market. Not even any of the recently announced or upcoming devices. It's that solid, stable & feature packed.

I'll only switch for a future device that offers a 624Mhz (or more) processor, WiFi g/n, BT 2.0, GPS, 3 or 4G data speeds, 128MBs RAM (or more), 256MBs ROM (or more), 3"+ VGA touchscreen, static thumboard, VGA Out & USB host with stellar battery life in a small, thin, light shell.

Until then, I'll stick with what I have. I couldn't be more pleased. :)

My experience with my HW6925 and thoughts on future upgrade exactly...

[alese]

I did have two devices few years back, but the inconvenience of carrying two things and the fact that having PDA (Calendar, Tasks and especialy Contacts) functions on one device and phone functions on the other realy annoyed me.
So I bought my first converged device HTC Himalaya in 2004 and never looked back.
My current device HTC Wizard is just as good PDA as any iPAQ, with just one exception - the CPU needs more power and as a phone is also not bad. It has it's weaknesses, but the convinience of hawing only one device outweight all the problems.
Of course I'm not completely happy, I would love to have faster device, UMTS and have more storage and RAM, but I just can't afford a new device at the moment.

[SteveHoward999]

I'm still trying to find a use for my e830. Perhaps just being nastalgic.


I use mine for eBooks, movies and a couple fo games.

I'd use it for more, but the E62 covers everything else just fine.

[yet_another_guest]

Please let me explain my view on this topic: I think it is better to go with two devices. A mobile phone should be small and wearable after work, and a PDA should be big enough for comfortable input and big screen that can be read easily. But those devices should be a small and lightweight smartphone and UMPC. To put it in other words: the PocketPC is dead!

I am really sorry if I offend somebodies feelings, but the PocketPC is dead. And that's the situation for nearly two years now. Since HP released its wonderful HX4700 nothing really changed in PPC world. There were developments like VGA screens, faster processors, more RAM and graphics cards. But none of those inventions could improve anything.

The PocketPC did not evolve from its status when PPC 2002 was the up to date OS. All following updates added no real improvements for me as a user. The Pocket Internet Explorer is still a mess and as for the GUI, well it is like a mother-in-law: You don't love her, but you can live with her.

Therefore, I think the UMPC is the ideal "PDA". It is not pocketable, but it is small enough to put it into a suitcase or backpack. It has a big, wonderful display, its pen input (based on TabletPC edition) is far better than transcriber, it can anything your normal PC can do (well, it is a normal PC), it is perfect for webbrowsing (Internet Explorer 7 or Firefox have no problems with frames). And also the UI is much more comfortable and easier to use without any tweaks (yes, the "x" in UMPCs closes the apps without customization).
Shortcomings? Yes, there are some: weak battery life (only 2-3 hours), bigger than PocketPCs, they are more expensive (I am still wating for the 500$ UMPC).
But: It can do so much more. You have your standard apps, external displays, keyboards, mice and HDDs can be added without any problems (or public-beta-flavoured drivers).
UMPCs will get smaller in the future, and when I heard about those system-on-chip x86 processors, then one thought came to my mind: Why not dumb Windows Mobile and use Vista on those devices? Look at this year's Macworld: Apple shows a cut-down version of OS X on the iPhone and every one goes mad. What about a UMPC phone made by e.g. HTC and powered by Windows Vista? Perhaps it is not possible today, but what about in two years (if it takes that long)?

I had always the impression in the past two years or so that Microsoft is only putting mediocre effort and resources in the development of Windows Mobile. Updates like "crossbow" have a flavour of yet a new theme without adding major improvements. So maybe Microsoft is working on an embedded Vista, but it will take another until we will know more.

So my decision: I'll buy a Nokia N76 with my contract renewal in June and get a UMPC to replace my beloved PPC.
I am really sorry and sad to say this: The Pocket PC is dying. And the UMPC is waiting.

just my two cents

[Steve Sharp]

People seem willing to accept deficiencies just to have the convenience of a converged device. Your thoughts?

In the context of this discussion, I think "deficiencies" may be somewhat overrated, depending upon an individual's personal needs. Just as there are varying levels of "processing power" required by desktop PC owners, for example, there are varying levels of "power" needed from a PPC/cell phone user.

My take is that I'm not a "power" PPC user, I keep my games, my contacts, and my few apps that I need on my PPC, and use it as a cell phone most of the time. I don't need a high-end cell phone and a top of the range PPC to do the things that I normally do, so I don't perceive that I am sacrificing anything by having a 2 in 1 device.

SS

[phunkynutz]

Having just switch to the MDA Compact III I felt compelled to expand this discussion. I have accepted the devices minor niggles because its not two devices in one - its three! having built in GPS means this device is a perfectly usable phone, pda and sat nav device. This also means I can chuck two of my chargers and only need one power socket and mount in my car.

Phone, PDA & Sat Nav - Now THAT'S what I call convergance.

[Phillip Dyson]

I use a PPC Phone Edition throughout the day, but if I'm going out socially, I switch my SIM into my 3125. Then I only have to do over the air sync with 4smartphone.net and all my info is right there.

The problem with non-smartphone phones is that I have to have the hassle of trying to keep my phone numbers and address up to date in two places. Using a device that can sync with Outlook/Exchange means that I don't have to worry about loosing any information if my phone is gone or replaced.

I firat went to converged because I wanted always on connectivity. I tried a GSM CF card with my e830 but that was just to much drama. There was too much work to check my email, download rss feeds, and update my weather programs. Now with a converged device its virtually mindless. I just pickup my TyTN and info is there. Plus I can use apps like Windows Live and Google Maps Mobile without having to tether a phone together while I'm in the car. Its bad enough that I have the delay to tether the GPS receiver.

[Paragon]

I've always had a problem with this argument that converged devices are lacking, or that one device is better than two or vise versa.

It's kind of like saying my truck is a lousy sports car, and my sports car can't hall crap for weight. If you want to haul a lot of weight you buy a truck. If you want to go fast you buy a sports car. If you want something in between you buy a minivan. It doesn't haul tons of weight, and it doesn't go real fast. If you want it to haul more weight then you are back to a truck again.

If you want a phone that is small and fits in your pocket then you obviously need a smaller screen. If you want something with a big screen then it doesn't fit in your pocket. If you want a device that is converged then you must find a balance that works well enough for both, otherwise you are back to two devices.

Personally I think converged devices have found a pretty good balance that fits the needs of people who want a converged device. If I wanted a better phone I'd buy a better phone. ;)

[whydidnt]

I have been "mostly" converged for a couple of years now, since acquiring the Samsung i730. I've tried the Treo 700p, 700wx, i-mate PDA2K, iPaq 6315 and HTC TyTN, and invariably I always go back to the i730 as it seems to have the fewest compromises for my needs.

Having said that the key word there is compromise. My all time favorite PDA is still the iPAQ 4700. I tried using the iPAQ with a Cingular 2125 as my phone for a while, but I found I almost always only carry one device when out socially. I have to have a decent web browser, and trying to use T9 to enter web-sites, etc. on the 2125 was too hard for me.

I don't know how a "perfect" converged device could be created as the i730 form factor is about as big as I like carrying all the time, but I'd love a big VGA screen.

[nosmohtac]

I agree with Paragon completely.

I voted that my device is a great phone and PDA, but I guess in reality it is lacking a little on both sides. I voted that way because I am able to live with those few quirks and actually enjoy using it more than I thought I would (although I wasn't happy about having to buy new software for a different platform again).

I have always had 2 devices and thought that was the only way to go. My last pda and phone were a Fujitsu Loox 720 and Moto e815, and I thought that I would never be able to get by without USB host ever again. That is, until a few months ago I jumped over to a Moto Q. I am in love with this phone and I love the size and form factor.

One other thing that I thought I would really hate is not having a touchscreen anymore. I must admit that it is much easier to use and navigate around than I could have ever imagined. The one handed usability is something I've never been able to experience with a PPC. I also don't have to worry about buying a bunch of screen protectors to keep the screen from getting scratched by the stylus. I never thought I'd be able to get by without wifi anymore, but now that unlimited data plans are getting cheaper, I don't even need to worry about wifi.

Coming over to smartphone from a VGA PPC, I thought I'd never be happy with a lower resolution device. I still enjoy reading ebooks even though the screen is much smaller. Is it the same reading experience as my Loox? No way, but I can live with it for the convenience of only having to charge and carry one device. TCPMP works great on the Q and when I show people some movies that I've ripped to put on my 4GB mini-SD, they can't believe how great it looks. I've been asked many times if the screen on the Q is an OLED screen or something other than LCD because the colors and images are so sharp.

I may go back to a PPCPE if something out there grabs me, but as more developers are creating software for the smartphone platform, I think I could be plenty happy right where I'm at.

edit: I forgot one thing. The thing I miss most about my pocket PC is that there aren't any solutions for syncing with money or quicken. This is supposed to be resolved by landware in a few months, when they release Pocket Quicken for smartphone.

[ianl]

Bluntly, I resent straw polls like this that (deliberately or not) omit choices like "I have a converged device that is excellent as both a phone and a PDA". The suspicion is that such a choice is not offered because the poll originator does not want to hear that. This is an old poll trick - limit the possible replies to get the answer you want !

No definition of "deficiencies" is offered either.

Why do I resent polls like this ? Because the straw results may unduly influence manufacturers. The "power of the press" is generally used to try and control the agenda.

If you want a dumbphone, buy one. They cost much less than a PDA.

For my part, a phone is a phone (duuuh !). If I can make and receive calls, SMS, store contact nos, connect to a hands-free etc, what more could I want from a phone ?

I want, and have, a simple phone + PDA. The thing connects to the Net through either wifi or EDGE for email and Net data/surfing. The computer part allows an enormous range of activities in a very small package and I value that capacity extremely highly.

I want to encourage software/hardware developers to continue developing this form factor. I do not want to encourage dumbphone development (ie. dumbing downmarket) instead.

Of course, the answer to this will be: "That's what the market wants !" Way too simplistic ...

[bkerrins]

I'm with FallN. I have a 6945 and love it. Stable, does what I want it to do, better than my last phone and better than my last PDA. Plus now I have GPS. The only reason to change any more is to get something with GB storage. I'm very happy with a converged device.

[Lex]

ianl, did you read the 4th poll choice? If that's your choice, vote for it. Up to now people were just stating their preferences. This is just an opinion sample originated by a non-developer considering various devices. I'm getting tons of great advice here by seeing how people think. Others may be too. My current opinion is that no PDA-o-phone with a decent screen size is offered by my favorite cell company that runs all the software I depend on. You may differ. Viva la difference.

[yslee]

. I just wish somebody would invent a way to pop sim cards out like SD cards or let me have two phones with one number (tried forwarding). That way I could have the PDA Phone during the week and the little smartphone on the weekend.


The old Treos used to be like that. Still, check with your telco; some offer a way to run 1 number on multiple SIM cards. You designate one SIM as your incoming SIM, while you can use the rest for outgoing stuff.

[Hx4700]

I converged in Sept by going from the Hx4700 to the Hw6945. I finally took the plunge because the Hw6900 was the first converged unit that came close to the power of the Hx4700. But I feel like I am missing something on both sides.

PDA- I miss the large 4700 screen - mostly for movies.
I miss having VGA - some Excel mobile forms I use cannot be read at QGVA 50% zoom as I could on the 4700.
416 is slower than the Hx4700 624 speed. This has been fixed with using HackMaster. 624 is very stable on the Hw6945.
At first I wished the 6900 had kept the two card slots as the 6500. But hasn't been much of a bother.
The 128m memory is less than the 192m on the 4700. This has been a small bother as I have a lot of programs loaded. Using a 2gig card helps with this.

Phone-I was surprised the Hw6945 did not have voice controlled dialing. I had to BUY Voice Command to fix this. But in fairness, VC gives more, like controlling WMP.
It still feels strange holding a PDA to my head for a phone.
Some people have said that they cannot hear well on their end. I have no complaints about the clear sound on my end.
And there is just something I can't put my finger on that I don't feel the 6945 is as good as a stand alone phone.

But all in all, I am going to try to stay converged as I like always having both with me all the time with just the one unit. The embedded GPS chip is as good/better than my old mouse GPS and the HP Nav program is the same as the Routis program I was familar with. The WiFi and BT seem to work just fine.
JMHO...
Ron...

[SteveHoward999]

I've always had a problem with this argument ...

It's kind of like saying my truck is a lousy sports car, and my sports car can't hall crap for weight. If you want to haul a lot of weight you buy a truck. If you want to go fast you buy a sports car. ....

Personally I think converged devices have found a pretty good balance that fits the needs of people who want a converged device. If I wanted a better phone I'd buy a better phone. ;)

Yeah but the thing is, even though you think the converged devices are doing a good job, it is clear many of us are still not getting what we actually want - we are getting a truck that can't fit a sheet of plywood on the bed, or a sports car with automatic transmission and a max of 85 mph on the clock!

[schmenge]

I help off trying a converged device for a long time as I was sure I wanted two separate devices. Then I got a chance to try a converged device at a pretty cheap price, which would also give me access to Lotus Notes (on the company side). It was one of the first XDAs, I can't recall which one. It as an OK PDA and a marginal phone. But it turned out that I loved having one device. It was one less thing to run through airport security. :)

The I moved to the Audiovox PPC4100. Much better phone, but about the same as a PDA, but at least I got more memory.

I've had the 8125 for about six months now and it is darn near perfect for me. Yeah, I wish it could be a tad faster, and you always want more memory, but it does everything I want it to do and has much better battery life than either of my previous two devices. And OK, I wish that BT and MS VC played together a little bit better. :wink:

[Paragon]

Yeah but the thing is, even though you think the converged devices are doing a good job, it is clear many of us are still not getting what we actually want - we are getting a truck that can't fit a sheet of plywood on the bed, or a sports car with automatic transmission and a max of 85 mph on the clock!

Steve, I think you missed my whole argument and focused on my single statement that I think that converged devices today have a pretty good balance between phone and PDA features.

My argument being that they ARE converged devices. To converge things like phones and PDAs there are obvious sacrifices that must be made. There is absolutely no way to please every single individual. If you want a phone small enough to comfortably fit in your pocket you need a small screen. If you want a larger screen you need to sacrifice such things as a dial pad on the face that would enhance phone functions. If you want a super fast processor you need to sacrifice battery life which is vital to a phone. If you want a fast processor and long battery life you then need a bigger battery which increases the size and weight......and so on.

I think this is actually one concept that Microsoft understands, which is demonstrated by the fact that they have developed two platforms in one,
Smartphones and Phone Edition devices. Smartphones being more phone-centric for those who value phone functions first, and Phone Edition Devices which are data-centric satisfying the needs of those who value PDA functions.

To go back to the truck, sports car analogy, if you take your truck that only fits a sheet of plywood and change it so it holds a bigger load, what have you got? A big truck that is further from a sports car. If you take the automatic out of the sports car and increase its speed, you have something that is much less a truck. Neither is a good converged auto, right?

Dave

[minimage]

Like someone else pointed out, many converged devices are more than just PDAs + phones. When I hit the road, I have:
Phone
PDA (corporate push email, global directory access as well as contacts, appointment reminders)
EVDO modem for my UMPC
IM device for contacting people who are not answering their phones
Camera
Blogging tool
Books
Games
MP3 player
Access to Google (helps troubleshooting if the PC I've been called to fix doesn't work)

I always want all of these things with me, even if I'm at an amusement park to ride roller coasters. I might not need to fix a PC at Cedar Point, but cleaning out my overstuffed Inbox could distract me from the pain in my feet from standing in line so long! Then again, maybe I'd leave the UMPC at the hotel. Yeah. I'm sure of it. Just you try to imagine lugging all that stuff (minus the modem) at an amusement park. Now imagine carrying one converged device and wearing a vest or pair of shorts with zippered pockets. I do!

I'm glad you twobies are happy. Convergence until the day I die, and after that, my coffin/urn had better do a lot more than just hold a stinking body!

[twomey]

I was firmly in the two devices camp for years. Because the PDA only market has been shrinking, I decided to try out a converged device. I got the Sprint PPC6700. It has turned out to be the best PDA I have owned. My Axim X51V hardly gets used any more. The 6700 has a smaller screen which is a big disadvantage to me, but the 6700 more than makes up for it with: a joystick for navigation, dedicated buttons for OK and the Windows menu, bluetooth, wifi AND EVDO. Plus I can use the 6700 as a wireless modem for the Axim and my laptop. And to top it off, the battery life on my 6700 puts the Axim to shame. Best move I ever made.

Tim

[Lex]

twomey, how's the 6700 do as a phone? A tech guy at my cellco said he recommended I wait when they first offered that device. He said it lacked on the phone side. For him it seemed a 'weak' radio, i.e. occasional dropped calls, less 'bars' than other phones from the same location, etc.

[SteveHoward999]

Steve, I think you missed my whole argument and focused on my single statement that I think that converged devices today have a pretty good balance between phone and PDA features.

Yeeks - we are gonna get into a circular argument here, methinks.

I suspect you missed my point, for I feel I completely understood yours.

I don't think anyone here is in any doubt that compromises have to be made when purchasing current devices. Those of us who are not happy with converged devices yet are saying that the compromises are too great.

We want to see solutions that are less of a compromise, and all we are really lamenting is the fact that no one has yet produced one device that is an ideal collection of the technologies that we have become used to over the last few years.

Just look at how many people are complaining at the lack of VGA devices. They know what compromises (sacrifices!) they have had to make in order to change to converged devices.

[Don Tolson]

I have also been a firm 'two device' person until lately.

I was working for a client who 'required' me to carry around a blackberry for 6 months. It was kind of neat being able to have my email, phone, and appts together, but unfortunately, the culture at the organization was one of assuming you would be constantly connected and available via email. I grew to hate 'push' email.

With the latest spate of new devices coming out, I've decided to try out a ETEN X500 Glofiish, since it has (apparently) everything I've been looking for in a device -- PDA, phone, camera, GPS, FM radio, etc. It's on its way, so I'm looking forward to giving it a go.

I was a big fan of VGA screens, but I now see less and less of them being produced, in favour of more features.

[windmilltilting]

I traded up my 4155 for the HP 2755. Then I waited impatiently for about a year and a half for the MDA to hit the USA. Now I'm using the MDA for everything but navigation. I use it occasionally when I find myself in the car without the HP, but normally I've got the HP 2755 on the dashboard, and the MDA in my pocket. This arraingement is easier to take calls, and still drive. (yes I have a BT headset)

The point I would like to make is that although the MDA is a GREAT ppc phone, the ppc performance is lacking with the slow processor, limited storage. The phone is not bad for length and width, but just a little thick.
Dialing is a nightmare without voice command.

I want an HP 4155 or 2755 with a phone shoehorned in there. I want it to come with a durable shell that doesn't NEED an aftermarket case. This means we need a flip cover for the screen. I want decent reception, and the latest GSM standards. I very rarely use the keyboard, and can do without it. I don't need or particularly want GPS in it, and I have only used the camera option on my MDA twice in the 10 months I've had it.

I am a heavy user of cell phone and PPC. The fact that I have been using the MDA almost exclusively for 10 months straight is a testament to the usability, durability, and functionality of this device as a phone, organizer, ppc, and web browser. It could be so much better however with a little more screen real estate, horsepower, and attention to the form factor.

[Paragon]

I want an HP 4155 or 2755 with a phone shoehorned in there.

I would be in cellular heaven if someone made a cellular device using the 4100 form factor. Nice screen size, yet slim and overall, not very big.

Dave

[Wasp]

I have the Verizon xv6700. At first it was a good PDA and a disappointing phone. The phone life stunk and its voice operation required me to individually imput the various contact names. I then purchased an extended battery and voice commander and am now quite happy with it. I had purchased a Dell 51V at the same time, but never used it. I ended up giving it to my brother.

[Richard76]

Still lovin' my TyTN!!!!!

[Nurhisham Hussein]

Therefore, I think the UMPC is the ideal "PDA".


Look at this year's Macworld: Apple shows a cut-down version of OS X on the iPhone and every one goes mad.


So my decision: I'll buy a Nokia N76 with my contract renewal in June and get a UMPC to replace my beloved PPC.
I am really sorry and sad to say this: The Pocket PC is dying. And the UMPC is waiting.

I have to respectfully disagree with this view, because I've already gone down this route. I carry three devices with me regularly - a phone, a PDA, and a Sony U8G/U50. The Sony is even smaller than almost every UMPC you can name except for the OQO/OQO2, but it will never replace my Loox 720.

To add to the disadvantages that you name you can add the lack of instant-on, fragility of components, heat, and weight. You are correct that Tablet HWR is much better than transcriber - but I personally find Letter/Block Recognizer are better than either. I use my PDA extensively, and in many situations where it is inappropriate/inconvenient to carry a UMPC type device. I don't mind the fact that UMPCs aren't pocketable - what kills it as an ubiquitous device for me is that it can't really be carried on a belt either. About the only place I really use it is at work - where the portability doesn't matter anyway. As an aside, UMPCs are fabulous as presentation devices and well worth the price in my view from that standpoint alone.

I'm not denying the usefulness of a UMPC - I'm a big fan of the form factor, and I follow developments in that field very closely. But there is a much bigger market for more limited devices in much smaller form factors like a PDA/PDAphone, and I for one don't think Windows Mobile will go away anytime soon.

Will there be convergence in OS architecture e.g. Vista embedded? That's possible (and likely), but for various reasons, I don't see it necessarily overlapping into PDA/PDAphone space.

PS I'll believe it's full bore OSX on the iPhone when I see it - not before. It's already confirmed that the iPhone will use an ARM (RISC based) processor, not an x86 processor, so the likelihood is that it's a port of OSX on the iPhone rather than a stripped version of OSX. That pretty much blows program compatibility right out of the water.

[SteveHoward999]

PS I'll believe it's full bore OSX on the iPhone when I see it - not before. It's already confirmed that the iPhone will use an ARM (RISC based) processor, not an x86 processor, so the likelihood is that it's a port of OSX on the iPhone rather than a stripped version of OSX. That pretty much blows program compatibility right out of the water.

Plus it's also been made pretty clear that it wil be a locked-down device, with little or no ability to add third-party software. So even if it is a full-blooded version of OSX, if it's locked down it might as well not be.

[kaiden.1]

I am not a power user. But I need things to work well and get frustrated when they don't. I feel that I have to re-set my PDA way too often than I'd like. Having that kind of performance tied to my cell phone and I would be a mess.

I use my PDA for checking e-mail, running my schedule and viewing the weather. More major items, and it's easier to just sit down and use my laptop. I'm not going to be browsing the internet on a tiny screen (what are you going to really look at? I have a hard time seeing as I am getting older) I jot a note or two down here and there.
At work I use large spread sheets in excel and trying to scroll forever just to get to the next cell to put in text is a pain. Too much work for me.
Games? I'd rather be on my xbox or playstation with real excitment.

MY cell phone is just that a good cell phone. I guess I could use a blackberry but have not put out the cash for it. I really don't like tiny buttons and I don't like an itty bitty screen, heavens knows that the older I get the harder it is too see things and tiny just doesn't work. I am a power cell phone user with a mega-pack of minutes to boot! I don't download ring tones and trying to wait for the internet on a phone is way to confusing and takes far too long. I love my bluetooth headset. Everyone should have one.

I am still waitng to find the perfect 2 devices in one. Maybe iPhone? It seems that it has the very things that I use my 2 devices for now and then adds my iPod to it too. We will see? ???

In the mean time it's 2 devices for me! :) No one yet has done a good enought job bringing the 2 devices together.

[Stik]

I don't like an itty bitty screen, heavens knows that the older I get the harder it is too see things and tiny just doesn't work.

I'm in the same boat. To coincide with Microsoft's new branding scheme and what these devices are doing to our vision, the World Optometric League will have a naming scheme of their own to categorize users of these devices and the spectacles needed ...

Pocket PC => WM6 Classic eyeglasses

Pocket PC Phone => WM6 Professional bi-focals

Smartphone => WM6 Standard coke-bottle glasses

:| :mrgreen:

[yildi]

Until a week ago, I was firmly in the two device camp. I had an iPAQ 4700 that I swore I would never give up. The screen is unbeatable.

A week ago, I made the decision to give up the iPAQ and the phone for the Cingular 8525. So far, the change has been wonderful. The keyboard is pretty good, the phone seems to have excellent reception, the battery life has been good and so far it seems to be more responsive than the iPAQ.

My experience is the same with you and, even if I miss the nice screen of my 4700 -which is broken by the way but I will probably make it repaired- I am very happy with my TyTN. Its processor is slower than the one of 4700 but the PDA is much responsive probably because of the lower screen definition. The screen is enough comfortable for me and the keyboard is very useful. The possibility of checking my mails anywhere is the main reason of adoption of a convergent device by me. I do not regret my choice.

[EmporerEJ]

I have read through all 6 pages of this thread for this main reason:

I am at the point where I would like to beat my HP6315 to death over and over again with a very large bat. (And then step on it.)

I would then do one of two things:
Buy something like the recommended 6945 (Everyone here sounds happy with it)
Or, go Verizon and get their tiny little PocketPC phone.

Here are the decision points:
Have a T-mobile account from years ago with 250 minutes/ unlimited web for $49.95/month. (If I keep T-mobile, I can keep this reasonably priced account)
Problem is, I have started exceeding my 250/month, which is just going to get worse with my future plans....

Go with Verizon, where my other calling circle are from and have basically unlimited minutes, but a higher Bill ($79.95 for "unlimited" web, and a limited selection on the PocketPC deal.)

I need: Video viewing with Windows media-Critical
Music playing, preferably windows media-Critical
Basic telephone-critical
Games-Not essential or necessary
Email-Not essential, some email would be nice
Photos: Not critical, but would be very helpful to be able to snap a picture onsite and email to a person instantly and easily. (I carry a Casio card camera at all times, with SD slot, and COULD plug an SD in and email, but difficult.)
I'm not a power user on anything here, but need reliability. (Don't have that now)
I also have an Axim X-5 sitting on my desk collecting dust, and could go back to 2 devices (Not preferable) if I could get web on my Axim reasonably.

My pockets and pouches are pretty full when I walk out the door. I currently look like a geek, trying to look like batman. (Lots of pouches and accessories, but No pocket protector protecting my pens)

[isajoo]

well, after reading all of the comments... i almost decided to change to 1 device...but its just not worth the headaches...yet. i was seriously considering the iphone. it sounds like a great device. but if u really think about it, its basically a strip down version of a 1st gen ppcpe. just the fact that its coming out now is the reason its smaller. but its just because of the media that its getting all of this attention. if only windows mobile got this attention. maybe microsoft should start to let apple call the shots.