Apple's iPhone: Return of the Touch Screen?

[Janak Parekh]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.apple.com/iphone/' target='_blank'>http://www.apple.com/iphone/</a><br /><br /></div>You know, I've been a Pocket PC fan for a long time. The large touch screen, the touch user interaction model -- it's been a great ride ever since I got my iPAQ 3650 with Pocket PC 2000. However, Microsoft's been moving the Pocket PC model steadily over to the Smartphone model -- softkey UI, smaller screens, less memory, more phone-oriented devices. And, honestly, I've actually liked it a lot. The Treo 700w, my main device, is a decent unit for what it does. But... but... in case you've been living under a rock, Apple introduced the iPhone today, and as a touch-screen lover, this is interesting stuff.<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/parekh-20070109-iPhone.jpg" /><br /><br />That's the pic from Apple's site. You'll notice right away -- this looks more like a PDA than a phone. I guess it's Steve's way of introducing a PDA while swearing it off. If you have a minute, I suggest you go to the site and page through. The device is <i>touch-oriented</i>, first and foremost. The UI controls resemble stuff third parties have been developing for Windows Mobile for years -- but integrated throughout the system. There's so much there that I can't even begin to summarize it in this post -- the full operating system, 4-8GB integrated, auto-landscape, the full-HTML zooming browser/photo viewer/etc., so on. But I'm very, very intrigued by the pervasiveness of the touch screen UI and the fact that Apple is going in precisely the <i>opposite</i> direction of Windows Mobile. So, that's my first impressions -- what do <b>you</b> think of this shot across the bow in the smartphone realm? (By the way, you may find Engadget's <a href="http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/live-from-macworld-2007-steve-jobs-keynote/">transcript of Jobs's keynote today</a> and the <a href="http://www.apple.com/iphone/technology/specs.html">tech specs</a> to be of interest as well.)

[bvkeen]

I plan to get one. I had been thinking about the Treo 750, but when this was announced (I "listened in" via the macrumors site, actually a minute by minute summary) I was sold on the iPhone. Extremely full featured, and sounds like it has the capability of being even further enhanced with add-on apps from developers. Syncing was not specifically demo'd but my hunch is that it painlessly syncs contacts, calendars, and tasks with Macs and probably includes software for syncing with Outlook. PLUS, it's got an iPod built into it.

[Damion Chaplin]

Loathe as I am to say it, I'm actually very impressed by this offering. If it didn't have an Apple logo on it, I'd buy it in a second.

No wonder they weren't concerned with the Zune's release... :?

[BevHoward]

this is going to be interesting... especially since it appears that the ppc winmobile is on the way out

The only negative I immediately see is lack of memory slot... even with abundant internal memory, what it's aimed at doing may stretch that in the long term... wonder if the usb connection is going to have host capabilities? ;-)

Beverly Howard [MS MVP-Mobile Devices]

[mightymission]

In four words...I WANT MY iPHONE!


Hot damm, AT&amp;T will leave Verizon in the dust with this baby!

[dma1965]

This is bound to be a hit BECAUSE it is an Apple product. Apple has enjoyed the reputation, lately, of producing stylish and functional hardware and software that just seems to work as it is supposed to. When I plug in my iPod, iTunes opens, then it syncs. No questions from the application, no sync errors, no unresolved items, no obscure messages with no solution in sight. I fully expect the new iPhone to work about the same, and I am quite sure my expectations will be met. I have been using a Mac and a PC for several years now, and since the new Intel Macs came out I have just been using a Mac and running Windows XP in Parallels for the sole purpose of supporting XP in my organization. You can bet the next desktop purchased for this company will be a Mac, with Parallels installed to run the few Windows apps we still need to run. If the new iPhone works with Exchange, you can bet I will replace my Windows phones. Bottom line, I just trust Apple software and hardware more, and I used to HATE Mac with a passion.

[exchguy]

While I don't think IPhone is going to be a threat in the business/enterprise market to Windows Mobile right now, this is definately a step into more innovation..something that Windows Mobile has been sorely lacking since Windows Mobile 2003.

Windows Mobile and associated HTC devices have really slacked off on real innovation and rightfully so because they've had virtually no competition in the market especially with Palm dying a slow death.

If anything, Apple is going to bring about a new level of competition for Microsoft and HTC that can only make them stronger..that is if they up their level of innovation to compete.

Windows Mobile "Crossbow" is nothing more than a feature pack, adding some new icons, Voice Command, HTML email, and a few other things. We are still going to deal with buggy radio stacks, frequent soft resets, and the like.. Certainly not the innovative big step like Apple is taking with Iphone. I hope that this causes some real shakeups in the Windows Mobile camp about what Photon should bring now that IPhone has fired a shot across the bow.

[arkman]

Looks great to me. I'm a recent 'switcher' and really love my Macs, but I'm still a Smartphone user (thanks to MissingSync) because they (smartphones) meet my needs. I carry a MacBook, an Ipod and a Smartphone with me almost everywhere I go (yes, the bathroom is included) and if I can get rid of a device here and there I'd be happy.

- 'Push-Imap-Email' from Yahoo looks interesting.
- Great Screen
- Great size
- OS X is great and I wonder what it'll be like on the phone.
- Screen looks like a magnet for finger smudgies.
- I agree with Bev - no memory expansion is a bit of a drag.

So, who in Canada will carry this? i assume it'll be Rogers - what with it being GSM and the Rogers/Yahoo relationship, but Rogers has never sold a WiFi enabled phone.

[zetsurin]

I've owned Palm and and Microsoft devices, both of which I have thought have not grown into what they should have been. Look at the front page any day on PPT and you will see 'new' Windows Mobile phones that look like they have all been knocked out by the same cookie cutter. Now I finally see here a big hit and want it!

This device has everything I need implemented in just the right way. My pocket awaits it's arrival.

[paschott]

I don't want a smart-phone. I want something with a touchscreen and with a keyboard ( like the HTC Wizard/TyTN variations ). Admittedly, the touchscreen drives me nuts for dialing, but a proper configuration would help that quite a bit with voice-dialing and such. However, the benefits of being able to do just about everything else outweigh that.

However, it sounds like Apple's going the way people may prefer - lots of storage, hopefully enough internal memory to do something and not resort to "smart" application management, a decent browser that may even be somewhat up to date. Sounds like they may have a winner here.

Of course the big question is would I switch? I don't know. This is quite compelling, but I'd definitely need to have some support for my normal apps or variations thereof - FITALY, PocketBible (without still another format ala Palm/WM), and PocketInformant. The rest can sit in the background somewhat, but I use those apps a lot.

I will definitely keep an eye on this. Hopefully they'll have some hardware buttons to make this more useful as an overall device, but it's hard to tell with Apple.

-Pete

[Antoine]

1) The iPhone is huge... As a comparison, it is a full inch and an half taller than the Axim x51v. Sure, the Axim is not a phone, but it is considered a pretty big device by today's standards (at least when compared to the Moto Q and Excalibur that Steve Jobs was making fun of).

2) During the keynote, the general impression was that the screen was fabulous, like nothing we've seen before. Yet, now that the specs are out, the screen's resolution is only 320 x 480. For reference, WM High DPI screens are 480 x 640. Talk about disappointing.

[Marcel_Proust]

Looks great to me. I'm a recent 'switcher' and really love my Macs, but I'm still a Smartphone user (thanks to MissingSync) because they (smartphones) meet my needs. I carry a MacBook, an Ipod and a Smartphone with me almost everywhere I go (yes, the bathroom is included) and if I can get rid of a device here and there I'd be happy.

- 'Push-Imap-Email' from Yahoo looks interesting.
- Great Screen
- Great size
- OS X is great and I wonder what it'll be like on the phone.
- Screen looks like a magnet for finger smudgies.
- I agree with Bev - no memory expansion is a bit of a drag.

So, who in Canada will carry this? i assume it'll be Rogers - what with it being GSM and the Rogers/Yahoo relationship, but Rogers has never sold a WiFi enabled phone.

it's bye bye windows mobile as soon as i can me one of these things. i suppose you will have to get an unlocked one. having used xp, and vista, there is nothing like osx. they don't even begin to compare. xp users don't know what they are missing. it is a fundamentally better computer experience all around.
i would bet apple is going to do a very nice job on this. the multitouch screen input will be something like nobody has ever seen.
i still think some people will prefer the keyboard model.
how they will get osx on this, i don't know.
i doubt this will be another newton. jobs refused to launch anything until now. and anybody who underestimates what this machine is going to be like should look at apple's recent track record.

[kiwi]

being a recent convert to a mac for home use, I was totally floored by this announcement!

wow!

Remember this is aimed at Joe/Jane consumer.. a lot of my non tech friends were emailing me about this today.

This device is aimed at that group of people. Not the PPC geeks we are... but more mainstream people. :devilboy:

[SteveHoward999]

Windows Mobile and associated HTC devices have really slacked off on real innovation and rightfully so because they've had virtually no competition in the market especially with Palm dying a slow death.

If anything, Apple is going to bring about a new level of competition for Microsoft and HTC that can only make them stronger..that is if they up their level of innovation to compete.




I don't care what anyone else says. This is the most significant point about the iPhone.

PPC, Windows Mobile and Windows Smartphones have stagnated over the last 3 years. Meantime 'simple' cell phones made by companies like Motorola and Nokia have become increasingly innovaive and powerful. They've as good as caught up with Windows Mobile and soon will leave it for dust.

The iPhone can only add energy to that innovation, and unless HTC, HP and Microsoft have something very special going on that we've not heard of, they are going to be floundering very soon - ironically just as the US market is finally discovering the power and versatility of the platform!!!

[Marcel_Proust]

being a recent convert to a mac for home use, I was totally floored by this announcement!

wow!

Remember this is aimed at Joe/Jane consumer.. a lot of my non tech friends were emailing me about this today.

This device is aimed at that group of people. Not the PPC geeks we are... but more mainstream people. :devilboy:

this has full osx where if you want you can script, or even go to the UNIX terminal....the mac is as seamless and beautiful as you want it to be.

[Jaxbulls]

1) The iPhone is huge... As a comparison, it is a full inch and an half taller than the Axim x51v. Sure, the Axim is not a phone, but it is considered a pretty big device by today's standards (at least when compared to the Moto Q and Excalibur that Steve Jobs was making fun of).

I have a Moto Q and also thought it looked really tall compared to that. Then i checked Apple's specs with Motorola's and the Q and iPhone are almost exactly the same size!
Here are the dimensions taken from apple.com and motorola.com (H x W x D)
Q: 116mm x 64mm x 11.5mm
iPhone: 115mm x 61mm x 11.6mm

[Antoine]

1) The iPhone is huge... As a comparison, it is a full inch and an half taller than the Axim x51v. Sure, the Axim is not a phone, but it is considered a pretty big device by today's standards (at least when compared to the Moto Q and Excalibur that Steve Jobs was making fun of).


Sorry, I was wrong. The phone is not that big, I was quoting the measurements that I read from Engadget or Macrumors, I don't remember which, or I might have messed up entirely. Just to set the record straight, the iPhone is actually a little smaller than the Axim x51v.

But the screen resolution still disappoints.

[SteveHoward999]

having used xp, and vista, there is nothing like osx. they don't even begin to compare. xp users don't know what they are missing. it is a fundamentally better computer experience all around.




Funny. I've used them all extensively. I've yet to get excited by OSX. I guess I must be too complex to realise what it is that I should missing :-)

[BevHoward]

no competition in the enterprise market

That's a &lt;lol>... by accepting the "enterprise market" as the holy mobile grail, ms completely ditched the guy with the hand attached to the device... while "security" may sell a lot of units to big business, imho, it's a no brainer as to what the end users will spend their own money on when it comes down to ppc-pe vs smartphone vs iphone.

The fact that it's running osx boggles the mind with the possibilities.

[signothefish]

I love the graphics and icons... they are way cool. Cingular may even end up with a lot of new subscribers as a result of this device, and only $499 for the 4GB model ($599 for the 8GB)? You really can't beat that. If the screen is a 16x9 aspect ratio, then a 3.5" screen at 160ppi would be about 275x488... pretty good resolution. If a 4x3 aspect ratio, the same screen would be 336x448. They're supposed to start shipping in June of this year.

I didn't like the fact that it doesn't have 3G. Instead, it's a quad-band GSM + EDGE.

A few things I liked:

"We've also got some stuff you can't see -- 3 advanced sensors. It's got a proximity sensor, bring the iPhone to your ear and your display shuts off and toushccreen shuts down. Ambient light sensor -- adjusts brightness, saves power. Third thing is an accellerometer, it can tell whether you're in landscape and portrait."

Looking at the New York Times online was awesome, especially the zoom in capability.

'"Now, to conclude with the internet device section, I want to show you google Maps on iPhone -- it comes up and I'm going to go to Moscone West. And here we are, boom, I'm going to want a cup of coffee afterwards, so I'm going to search for StarBucks." Shows Gmaps POI info including number and address, which drops right into the dialer. He's calling StarBucks.'

Another hands-on demo. "Let's see what happens when a phone call comes while listening to music -- music fades out and the call comes through." Phil wants photos to use as his screen saver, one of the phones from Hawaii. Go figure! Steve is emailing the photo -- shrinks, compose window pops up (he's still on the phone with Phil, mind you), and he sends it. He ends the call, and the music pops right back up, no pauses, no fuss. Uproarious applause.

[Janak Parekh]

I love the graphics and icons... they are way cool. Cingular may even end up with a lot of new subscribers as a result of this device, and only $499 for the 4GB model ($599 for the 8GB)? You really can't beat that. If the screen is a 16x9 aspect ratio, then a 3.5" screen at 160ppi would be about 275x488... pretty good resolution.
It's 320x480 as per the tech specs. I'll put a link to the tech specs in the frontpage post.

I didn't like the fact that it doesn't have 3G. Instead, it's a quad-band GSM + EDGE.
Ditto. I think it's pretty clear the phone is targeted to the consumer, who may not necessarily need 3G. Still, I'm surprised. You'd think a device like this would be ideal for next-gen video or audio.

--janak

[JesterMania]

I was looking at the pictures on GSMArena and wow, the interface at least looks slick and amazing. Even though I'm an avid Windows user, the OS X interface has never ceased to amaze me, from its design to its hardware-accelerated smoothness. As someone pointed out, this has a full OS X OS so it should be plenty powerful to make some amazing 3rd-party applications - heck it could even blow WM out of the water in terms of versatility and power, given enough adoption from developers. Here's hoping that tri-band UMTS/HSDPA will be added later, and maybe they'll take this a little further and somehow develop a model with a slide-out keyboard.

On a more positive note for Windows Mobile, maybe this will push its development a few steps further because after seeing a device like the iPhone, I'm just about ready to jump ship :wink: .

[Demens]

Hmm... That zooming functionality reminds me of what Picsel browser did some time ago on a palm device.
(Page renders 100% like on desktop, tap the screen once and tap again, this time holding and dragging. Then it zooms smoothly as you drag)

Wonder what ever happened to it? It was fast, really fast to use, cool and almost ready. It also had browser history as screenshots of pages. (the feature that nokia browser touts nowadays)

[Rod3]

having used xp, and vista, there is nothing like osx. they don't even begin to compare. xp users don't know what they are missing. it is a fundamentally better computer experience all around.




Funny. I've used them all extensively. I've yet to get excited by OSX. I guess I must be too complex to realise what it is that I should missing :-)

I have to agree with SteveHoward999. I've also used XP and OSX extensively, and I much prefer Windows. I don't get all the Apple hype, but as a Cingular subscriber, I'll probably go this route eventually.

[wiz]

Errr ... did anyone notice? NO HSDPA, NO UMTS, NO GPRS ... only EDGE. For a push mail devices the iPhone just lost half its sales potential .... In Europe, EDGE is a technology that is on the verge of extinction .... Nice going Apple!

[joker]

Hard times for Microsoft. Finally!

kiwi, don't write so much BS, please.

[kiwi]

You guys dont get it.

Consumers will lap this device up just like they did with the RAZR range of phones.

Hell, the use of Bluetooth devices.. mainly headsets has only just become apparant here in North America.

This is a CONSUMER device.. the cutting edge is in the marketing and Hype. Consumers will lap up anything they are given, even if there is a better alternative!! ie. Honda Cars, "Palm Pilots" :devilboy:

[Marcel_Proust]

You guys dont get it.

Consumers will lap this device up just like they did with the RAZR range of phones.

Hell, the use of Bluetooth devices.. mainly headsets has only just become apparant here in North America.

This is a CONSUMER device.. the cutting edge is in the marketing and Hype. Consumers will lap up anything they are given, even if there is a better alternative!! ie. Honda Cars, "Palm Pilots" :devilboy:

Honda Cars and PalmPilots? hmmmm.....seems to me consumers are pretty wise there. Hondas are great and with Toyota are killing detroit with their superior products. Palm was popular when it was good, and consumers are voting with their feet now.
maybe the devil icon was an indication you are pulling my leg. but with some people here actually thinking xp is better than osx, which is fine, but is like saying you prefer macdonalds over a gourmet meal at a high end restaurant, i just don't know anymore.
people are missing the point, they are quoting pixels etc. apple will provide a flexible device capable of doing a lot. a built in 8 gb and osx. but it's the smooth interface and operability that will matter. easy to use. powerful. efficient. the pretty icons are nice but they are not the main thing. and apple will blow wm5 out of the water in usability. or force it to innovate. it's hard to see how wm5, palm, whatever that other system we don't see in north america, and blackberry are all going to survive. blackberry will cause it's lean and mean and efficient. i don't know about wm5. much will depend on the big lumbering machine and their commitment.

also, what's being forgotten here is this is running OSX. (i hope.) if that is true then the implications i don't think have quite sunk in yet.

[burtcom]

Intriguing -- I'll probably get one when the next generation comes out.

It looks like the iPhone has a similar finish as the current iPods -- and will probably be just as easily scratched. Put it directly in a case!

Will it be possible to add third-party OSX apps? Is there a future for me as an iPhone developer?

[huangzhinong]

I was looking at the pictures on GSMArena and wow, the interface at least looks slick and amazing. Even though I'm an avid Windows user, the OS X interface has never ceased to amaze me, from its design to its hardware-accelerated smoothness. As someone pointed out, this has a full OS X OS so it should be plenty powerful to make some amazing 3rd-party applications - heck it could even blow WM out of the water in terms of versatility and power, given enough adoption from developers. Here's hoping that tri-band UMTS/HSDPA will be added later, and maybe they'll take this a little further and somehow develop a model with a slide-out keyboard.

On a more positive note for Windows Mobile, maybe this will push its development a few steps further because after seeing a device like the iPhone, I'm just about ready to jump ship :wink: .

it uses OS x, but it will never be full os. There is no possiblity that this device has more than 1gb ROM. If you play with linux a little bit, the most stripped linux can be only 100mb, so I believe this OS is almost a highly stripped os x, which means installing any third party applications will need install a lot of libraries at the same time.

I didn't see any world/excel/powerpoint icons on the interface. what's the problem?

[nGage]

I'm surprised no one has said "No GPS!".

[alese]

It looks like typical Apple to me.
Nice design, beautifull and (I guess) functionall interface, everything nicely integrated (browser, iPod...) and also some nice HW specs (storage, touch screen...)
But it's also typically expensive and lacking in some at least for me important areas. It lacks 3G (UMTS) for one, and that is a really big omission for a device coming in Summer 2007. Couple that with no expansion slot, apparent lack of stylus (I like to jot stuff down) and Apple like "integration" with it's own multimedia formats and at least for me it's not as interesting as it looks at first look.

Don't get me wrong, I hope it will force M$ and HTC to innovate more, and I would love to have a proper Browser and an interface like this on my mobile device...

[Marcel_Proust]

I was looking at the pictures on GSMArena and wow, the interface at least looks slick and amazing. Even though I'm an avid Windows user, the OS X interface has never ceased to amaze me, from its design to its hardware-accelerated smoothness. As someone pointed out, this has a full OS X OS so it should be plenty powerful to make some amazing 3rd-party applications - heck it could even blow WM out of the water in terms of versatility and power, given enough adoption from developers. Here's hoping that tri-band UMTS/HSDPA will be added later, and maybe they'll take this a little further and somehow develop a model with a slide-out keyboard.

On a more positive note for Windows Mobile, maybe this will push its development a few steps further because after seeing a device like the iPhone, I'm just about ready to jump ship :wink: .

it uses OS x, but it will never be full os. There is no possiblity that this device has more than 1gb ROM. If you play with linux a little bit, the most stripped linux can be only 100mb, so I believe this OS is almost a highly stripped os x, which means installing any third party applications will need install a lot of libraries at the same time.

I didn't see any world/excel/powerpoint icons on the interface. what's the problem?

ahem.....you know who makes those programs...i think this company up in redmond or somewhere?
apple is trying to transition to it's own. keynote is excellent, much better than powerpoint, and new version is coming out. apparently there's a new spreadsheet as well, but they didn't want to announce everything today.

[huangzhinong]

I'm surprised no one has said "No GPS!".

That's actually I want to mention. No GPS, both hardware and software. I didn't find many GPS solutions for Mac at all, let alone iphone. I will be very surprised if Tomtom has a iphone version.

[UCCOFFEE]

by looking at the spec, what do you guys think is missing from the iPhone?

the only thing I m thinking of is the auto / manual focus camera.

[huangzhinong]

by looking at the spec, what do you guys think is missing from the iPhone?

the only thing I m thinking of is the auto / manual focus camera.

It does have 2mb camera. Almost all phone cameras are a piece of junk, so I don't care.

I don't think I will get this device since keyboard is very important to me, I hope iphone can bring some new innovations in ppc phone world.

[Jonathan1]

I'd say there is a 100% certainty that this thing will sync out of the box with Outlook since iTunes 7 and I think 8 already does this....one way of course.

As for the device. I don't use Cingular so I'm SOL unless I want to give up my first born for one of these things without the contract which I would be willing to do if I had a first born. :P

Seriously though the big thing I'm interested in seeing is how difficult is it to migrate apps over to this thing. I HAVE to imagine the API's are very different. Heck does the thing even support 3rd party apps? Inquiring minds wanna know.

[JesterMania]

it uses OS x, but it will never be full os. There is no possiblity that this device has more than 1gb ROM. If you play with linux a little bit, the most stripped linux can be only 100mb, so I believe this OS is almost a highly stripped os x, which means installing any third party applications will need install a lot of libraries at the same time.

Maybe I led some people to misunderstand but I didn't necessarily mean taking the current off-the-shelf OS X software and installing them on the iPhone. Like you implied, having a 1GB+ OS on a phone seems a little impractical :lol: . I was implying that hopefully the iPhone-version of OS X will contain enough power to write some pretty cool apps. WM compared to XP is severely gimped, so i hope iPhone OS X will not be as much. Of course, there is the possibility that Apple will not allow/support 3rd-party apps on the device but that'd be pretty silly of them IMO. From some of the screenshots, the iPhone appears to have a version of a Dashboard-type app installed so the least Apple can do is allow people to make "iPhone Dashboard widgets" (mass speculation there hehe).

Oh, and I wouldn't worry about the missing UMTS/HSDPA support either. I think Apple is just testing the market (probably in North America primarily). If this product is a hit, there's no reason not to make a UMTS version (possibly as a 2nd iPhone revision) to support Europe and 3G carriers worldwide. Also, since this product has a BT interface, GPS support shouldn't be a problem unless as mentioned above, Apple somehow restricts 3rd-party app development.

[kiwi]

I was kind of meaning that consumers are very visual beasts.. go with the herd etc.

at least the 6mth+ lead time means I can enjoy my Treo 750v ;-)

[saru83]

as much as i'm into WM, i just cant resist this phone, its no brainier.. although lack of 3G is a lil disappointing, but anyway I WANT ONE :twisted:

[Marcel_Proust]

it uses OS x, but it will never be full os. There is no possiblity that this device has more than 1gb ROM. If you play with linux a little bit, the most stripped linux can be only 100mb, so I believe this OS is almost a highly stripped os x, which means installing any third party applications will need install a lot of libraries at the same time.

Maybe I led some people to misunderstand but I didn't necessarily mean taking the current off-the-shelf OS X software and installing them on the iPhone. Like you implied, having a 1GB+ OS on a phone seems a little impractical :lol: . I was implying that hopefully the iPhone-version of OS X will contain enough power to write some pretty cool apps. WM compared to XP is severely gimped, so i hope iPhone OS X will not be as much. Of course, there is the possibility that Apple will not allow/support 3rd-party apps on the device but that'd be pretty silly of them IMO. From some of the screenshots, the iPhone appears to have a version of a Dashboard-type app installed so the least Apple can do is allow people to make "iPhone Dashboard widgets" (mass speculation there hehe).

Oh, and I wouldn't worry about the missing UMTS/HSDPA support either. I think Apple is just testing the market (probably in North America primarily). If this product is a hit, there's no reason not to make a UMTS version (possibly as a 2nd iPhone revision) to support Europe and 3G carriers worldwide. Also, since this product has a BT interface, GPS support shouldn't be a problem unless as mentioned above, Apple somehow restricts 3rd-party app development.

well it's going to be a modified osx for sure, and stripped, and adapted. it won't use the usual finder for instance. some of the wow technologies from osx like spotlight might be missing. knowing a bit about osx, you could strip it and have a good os with less bell and whistles.
remember, windows ce is NOT a stripped down win 2000/xp/vista, it is a completely different beast. and this is OSX. so we are talking apples and oranges.
why is it impractical to have a 1 gb + rom - (although you can run pretty much the whole osx for less - i think 200 mb - a lot of the install is big big graphic files and all kinds of system services.) but why not a gb on flash? also i didn't see any speck for ram? it's going to have to have at least 256 ram, and that hardware wise might be harder. my hardware knowledge is not so good here.

[PhilH]

I'm a recent switcher to OS X, and just love the whole Mac experience. Now the iPhone's come along and I can't stop thinking about it. I think it looks amazing and I don't care how much it costs, I've just got to have one.

I've used Windows Mobile for some time now (I've had five Pocket PCs over the years), but I've always found their usability lacking.

Apple's first try at a phone looks like they've nailed it -- they've taken advantage of the stagnation of the Pocket PC market (for me, nothing's piqued my interest since HP and Dell's VGA models) and produced something truly innovative.

[capo]

Add my name to the list of those not impressed with OSX. I use both it and XP all day, every day and have fewer problems with XP. It's just another OS and they all have their pros and cons - use whatever does the job. However, I'll be really interested to see what it can do in the context of the iPhone. Seems to me that Windows Mobile is a little crusty around the eyes and in need of an extreme makeover. Apple Inc. (no longer Apple Computer... hmmm) apparently agrees. Go Apple!

Ah, but the iPhone... the last time I got this jazzed by a new piece of hardware was when I first saw the original 4 gig iPod. I think they may have done it again. At the very least, they've raised the bar and introduced a little creativity into the market. None of this technology is really new - it just took a little vision to put it all together.

I'll be keeping a close eye on the iPhone from now until whenever it can actually be taken home - if it's as good as it looks on first blush and can reasonably replace the functionality of my PDA, phone and iPod I'll be drinking the Cupertino Kool-Aid too.

[dbman]

Where I live, I need Verizon. I have tried Sprint and Cingular and neither had any reception that was usable.

I love the interface, the browser and the functionality. I own an X51 and love it, but if I could have the interface, I would ditch it in a minute.

[trepine]

Remember that iPod in general was recently opened up to 3rd party development via the "games" which can be used with wide latitude to make any other app. However, this appears to not be an ipod, but a completly new device, new os, etc, so how the games development interface will port over, I don't know.

[seaflipper]

Did anyone officially dub this the "iSmudge" yet?

Not anything against the iPhone because I think it's an amazing gadget and will probably get one when they come out of course, BUT I am not sold on touchscreens only devices at all. Face grease is a continual problem and personally I find much easier to clean on a non touch screen device. :D

That being said, I do use a Treo as my primary device....and the smudge factor doesn't keep me from using it.

[JesterMania]

why is it impractical to have a 1 gb + rom - (although you can run pretty much the whole osx for less - i think 200 mb - a lot of the install is big big graphic files and all kinds of system services.) but why not a gb on flash?

That would be cool. But my thinking was that if Apple advertised an iPhone with 8GB user storage, then for every 8GB device they made, they'd actually have to make the internal storage 9GB - which may/may not increase costs significantly. But as you said, it's more of a comparison between apples and oranges so sure, it'd be cool if it did have an OS with a lot of bells and whistles. Maybe this can be the beast everyone is waiting for. I know I loved using OS X because it was simple and had nice eye-candy on the outside, but if you dig deep into the OS, you get the full Darwin/BSD experience.

[jlp]

[quote=Antoine]1) The iPhone is huge...

Take a look at the 3D comparison here. (http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/apple-iphone-sized-up-and-compared-to-treo-750-moto-q-and-bb-p/)

[njl2016]

I could care less about the iPhone. I'm probably the only person that is not excited by it. I hate the Apple Corporation, I hate their products, I hate MacOS and I hate their philosophy.

[haesslich]

Well, this could put my not-so-smart Nokia 'smartphone' out to pasture - so long as the price is reasonable. I do like the idea of being able to use this as a low-rez camera (2.1 Megapixels) with some web browsing capability when I'm too lazy to power up the Axim. Plus, as a video viewer, it shows some promise... and if it's an easy-to-use phone, I'd probably sign up for one in a flash. My Nokia S60-series phone has a problem with crashing that's gotten bloody annoying.. and the camera in this one puts my current phone to shame (less than 1 megapixel).

Still, it's a competitor, and the more power to them - if this can get Microsoft off its asinine idea of putting in low-resolution square-screens as the 'future of Windows Mobile', then I'm all for it. :D

[whydidnt]

I like a lot about this phone:
Higher Resolution than WM Smart phones
Simple Interface
WiFi &amp; BT included
8 GB RAM included

However, I'm not sure this is going to be the runaway hit everyone here seems to think it will. First off, those of us that have attempted to use a phone without hard keys in the past know it's NOT a good experience. 2nd, How hard/easy will it be to send a text message. How marked up will that screen get from our greasy fingers touching it all the time. The lack of 3G is also a real downer. Many of the new stuff - Slingbox, MobiTV, etc will not work well using EDGE. Apple has cut off a larger potential market of users by leaving this out of the device.

Add a couple of the missing things I mentioned and you'll have THE device, as it is, its another very good device with flaws.

Since none of us have really have used the new interface, the jury is out on the true usability, we're just counting on Apple to do it right. Aside from that, HTC should be able to slap 8 GB of Flash into any of their current smart phones have a device that could at least compete with this, couldn't they?

[HTK]

This is a very impressive piece of hardware.
The screen has a great resolution, comparing it with others phones of the same size ( not JASJAR and etc ).
And funny how nobody here is talking about the Multi-Touch feature of the screen, this should be exponential better to type on the screen etc.

[johnm]

I hope someone at Microsoft is getting the spank for this one. Personally I prefer the PocketPC form factor to the smartphone. It just makes me sick how MS has basically abandoned the PPC over the last few years. I wonder if this will invoke a change in direction, or if my 4700 will be the last PPC I ever own.

[frankenbike]

Hopefully this will prove that something like PPC phones are consumer items and not just for business professionals ("enterprise customers").

Just as the iPods showed that mp3 players were mainstream if they had enough storage, maybe so for PPC phones. 64mb of Ram and maybe 256 megs of ROM is just retarded.

And just maybe, American wireless companies will stop being 2 years behind everyone else in the world. You hear me Sprint?

Or not...

[TMAN]

I, for one, am dialed in for the iPhone. It will be great to come almost full circle to back to Apple for handheld productivity. Although I have a Windows Mobile PPC phone, I still use my Apple Newton MessagePad 2100.

[asiaexpat]

Here in thailand this will never sell without gprs.
I like the size, weight, screen etc. and hope second gen wil have a good camera and gprs--so I am still leaning towards Nokia N95

[juni]

Innovative, cool looking, feature packed, aimed at the "regular" consumer, not too expensive, has an ipod... I don't really see how they can go wrong, unless the text-entering via screen-only totally sucks.

We'll get one with a 99% certainty since my wife is a mac user. :)

Only thing I don't like - it can't be skinned.

[ctmagnus]

I hope the contacts syncing is faster than with iTunes 7 and a 5th generation iPod. Hopefully it'll do so with a database format as well, rather than the "everything goes into one big file on the iPod" method that is currently in use.

[szamot]

I could care less about the iPhone. I'm probably the only person that is not excited by it. I hate the Apple Corporation, I hate their products, I hate MacOS and I hate their philosophy.


Good for you mate, we have to admire people like you, determined and well grounded in what they want but most of all ignorant and narrow minded. MS loves people like you, can't make a decision or choice on your own or without your TV. Enjoy your "smart phone" and Vista - it's so 2002!! :wink:

[powercx]

I have a feeling someone will be making a website called iphonethoughts.com. Otherwise, what category would this go to? Pocket PC Phone? Smartphone? Or maybe more Generalized?

[Jonathan1]

I could care less about the iPhone. I'm probably the only person that is not excited by it. I hate the Apple Corporation, I hate their products, I hate MacOS and I hate their philosophy.

Do you have a legit reason? Or is it typical irrational hatred due to the stereotypical view that all Mac users are zealots?

[ricksfiona]

This is a gorgeous device and TOTALLY bling! I will be a complete success in the consumer market.

But in the business community, it won't fly. No Office, no 3G and it probably won't sync. well with Exchange.

[Gerard]

Reminds me of the big, high-end Sony device from a few years ago, the NR-70V or something like that. The UI looks a lot like ever Palm Garnet thingy; cartoonish, 'easy' (which just makes my head hurt), and cute. Should do well enough, thanks to the logo. It's like pop music. Make something flashy, a bit sexy, tell folks they'll buy into coolness with the product. Deliver enough bells and whistles so no one feels ripped off. Sell a few million of the things. Move on. Meanwhile, people who want computers will keep on using actual computers. People who want actual music will keep on cringing every time they have to visit some store where some cutie-of-the-moment is whining through the PA.

The iPhone may well be a decent phone. Cool. My kid's iPod is a decent MP3 player (without iTunes, thanks to Yamipod), but she still uses a Pocket PC. I'll keep using a separate phone, a cheap one I don't mind getting rain on, and listening to tunes in gsPlayer 'cause it works well, doesn't cost a cent, and SD cards are dirt cheap. yeah, go apple... happy consuming.

[Snail]

Just two things to add...

1. Remember that this is still 6 months away - I've no doubt that what you see today will be heavily revised and updated by the time we get our sweaty hands on it...

2. See you in the queue to buy one!

[Ianpac]

Nobody yet seems to have considered how a stripped down version of OSX will work on the small processors available for PDAs which have only a tiny fraction of the processing power of desktop CPUs.

I doubt if today's available processsors could even run Win98 never mind OSX. In order to get decent performance they will have to hack away so much that there will be only a skeleton left which means you will not be able to transfer programs from your Mac to the IPhone and expect them to work. So what is the point of using OSX?

Also I have tried using full screen soft keyboards on my XDA2 with its 3.6inch screen and it is a slow and messy procedure. I can type three times faster with a stylus and keep everything clean. Existing PDA users will not be impressed if there is no stylus.

Also everybody is excited about having an IPod built-in but this is essentially a PDA-phone and nobody I know uses their PDA as their main music player. It is too bulky and it interferes with using its other functions. The music functions are like the camera - a nice add-on but something few will actually take advantage of in any meaningful way.

It will sell well because it has great looks but I think when people actually start using it in the real world, the user reviews will be average at best because it will not have good enough functionability. It is more a toy which means the youngsters will love it but this is no Ipod revolution.

If you are looking for innovation then there are several units which will be launched this year which will blow Iphone out of the water - for example the O2 Xda Flame which is scheduled for release next month.

[zetsurin]

I think some people here really need to take some time out to just go to the Apple website and watch Steve Job's keynote. He's not just talking about it, he's using the thing with a projection of it on a big screen. Performance seems exceptional. It's clearly a projection of what he is currently doing on the device and not a mock up either.

Also he mentions they will be doing a 3G model. So for those upset about it remember that this is their very first entry and they can't release one device which does it all just yet.

I'm only a light mobile phone user so I am already sold even though I have no need for EDGE. I just want to be able to eventually get an unlocked model (have a sack of cash waiting).

As for those questioning performance: Have you ever administered your own FreeBSD box? I have and it's the fastest thing I have ever seen run on a given set of hardware. OSX shares a lot of underpinnings with FreeBSD, soi f Apple optimised/scaled down the GUI I have no doubt it can run with sufficient performance. Like I say I have seen it do this already.

[Underwater Mike]

Another vote for possibly considering the next generation, IF it comes with decent GPS and 3G support. I'd hate to part with my investment in WM software, but my 8125 is far from a seamless experience. Any way that I can get rid of ever seeing anything like the messed-up WM5 Connections insult to UID is worth doing.

[inteller]

1) The iPhone is huge... As a comparison, it is a full inch and an half taller than the Axim x51v. Sure, the Axim is not a phone, but it is considered a pretty big device by today's standards (at least when compared to the Moto Q and Excalibur that Steve Jobs was making fun of).



sounds like the spiritual successor to the Newton.

hopefully this will force Microsoft's hand to make a phone that is more home consumer friendly. Let's admit it, so far WM devices have been geared towards businesses (how many people run exchange at home for push email?). If I didn't work at a company that had exchange, I'd probably look at another phone, because ultimately all I need is a phone with BT tethering to go high speed with my laptop.

[BarryB]

I like it.

I've avoided smartphones because I don't get a signal at home. I refuse to pay about $80 per month for a phone I can't use around the house.

The wifi on this baby will allow me to use it with skype. Now, if Cingular will put up a tower nearby, I'll be happy.

[Deslock]

Hardware and interface-wise, this is the gadget I've been waiting 10 years for. Small, lightweight, color screen that takes up almost entire footprint, excellent touch-screen navigation and GUI. And updated for current communications with wifi, BT, and cell-phone abilities. Wow.

The only other device that's excited me in a couple years is the Nokia Internet Tablet (n770/n800), and the iPhone's features and form factor crushes it (despite the iPhone's lower resolution screen).

Loathe as I am to say it, I'm actually very impressed by this offering. If it didn't have an Apple logo on it, I'd buy it in a second.
I could care less about the iPhone. I'm probably the only person that is not excited by it. I hate the Apple Corporation, I hate their products, I hate MacOS and I hate their philosophy.
Being an anti-fanboi is just as retarded as being a fanboi.

I don't care about the OS as long as it works. Whoever creates a reliable, small, lightweight mobile device with wifi and a capable browser that runs smoothly gets my money. While WinCE/PPC/WM works fine for PIM, its syncing and memory management issues and its web browsing limitations are frustrating.

Nobody yet seems to have considered how a stripped down version of OSX will work on the small processors available for PDAs which have only a tiny fraction of the processing power of desktop CPUs.
Linux/BSD has always been more modular and more scalable than Win32, so I'm not worried about that. However, I do have some hesitations about this device: What kind of apps will it support and will I be allowed to install? (I read that this will be tightly controlled)
No memory expansion.
No GPS.
No removable battery (actually this doesn't bother me too much; I expect someone will come out with a battery-sled).
No video recording.
Safari doesn't support Ajax too well (no google Docs, for example). This is my biggest concern.

[Rod3]

Safari is also slow as mud. At least on my Macs. I would hope you could put Firefox or something on it.

[foldedspace]

It looks kind of neat, but there's no way I'd buy one.

Why?

I can't put it in my pocket. It's the same reason I don't buy similar devices that have been out for some time. The touchscreen would break...and I'm not putting anything on my belt. This isn't the same as a Razr, and that's not a compliment.

It's a great marketing move for Apple, as some people will buy anything that Steve Jobs sells. And it's a stealthy way to get OSX into more hands.

Neither of those are selling points for me.

[palur]

If it has no stylus, how can the data entry be simple?
For example If I need to jot down quick note/memo, how do I do it on this?
Does it have a voice recorder?
I do not think it can replace my pocket pc phone may be a mp3 phone if it is difficult do above things.
Thanks

[dto71]

It's gorgeous, I'm tempted, but as with the Ipod, the lack of a removable battery is a big problem for me.

I remember reading a couple of years ago (I think it was in Popular Science) that when Ipod's sealed batteries first started to wear out, Apple's position was that the customer should buy a new Ipod. The resulting outrage caused Apple to initiate a battery replacement program where you have to pay through the nose to send your Ipod to Apple for them to replace your battery. It looks like this will be the same for the Iphone. Why? Because a solid back looks prettier than screws or latches?

I love Apple's willingness to innovate, but sometimes their obsession with coolness and style gets in the way of common sense. Remember the titanium notebooks? Everybody drooled, until it was discovered that it cut the reception of the internal antenna in half. Jobs' keynote was very impressive, but I'll wait on the Iphone until there's actual user feedback.

[Birdiestyle]

Interesting... when I first was reading the Keynote stuff I was intrigued, but there really isnt that much innovation here once you get past the hyped up way it was presented. It does have a nice form factor and browser, but....

It has so many glaring problems that Im not even sure if this thing will be a success at all, as even most of the iPod and Mac fanboys will not be able to get this:

1. ONE Carrier, and its Cingular...!! That probably knocks out half the country right there. And the prices are with a 2 year contract and you will probably be forced to buy a data plan..

So really the MASSES who could afford to blow the extra $100+ overhead for an iPod, really wont be able to afford the $300-$400 extra plus the data plans which effectively shoot this thru the roof in investment. And dont even give you cutting edge speeds... And then having to deal with contracts and the like..

2. OSX. ITS LOCKED DOWN. Its not a Smartphone and wont even compete, because it is not allowing open development of Applications. And while they made it look good in the demonstration I have a feeling it will begin to feel a lot like a "Very Very pretty" feature phone with neat transitions and transparencies, with little available expansion. It will be integrated but not open in that you either do it their way or, you dont do it. And it will be interesting if it actually has the "performance" level that they tried to claim in its first release. Come on, they were bragging about such trivial things when demo-ing it. And that was completely setup to work flawlessly(which means they were probably doing tricks behind the scenes).

3. They can brag about their new touch screen technology, but until we see it work Im not sold. Smudging, no tactile feedback, it will be ok for some, but there's a reason most of the phone/PDA manufacturers tend to throw more hardware keys on rather than less(and give you a stylus...).

This is not innovation, its Apple claiming innovation where there is none.

No really, you cant take the touchscreen interface that we've had for years, make bigger buttons(which we've had for years in 3rd party apps too), and add a few gestures(which we've had too) and say that we have this whole new way of interacting... There is a reason for the stylus and it was for productivity. They will have to streamline and take away features and the like to even make this work, thus part of my thoughts on this feeling like a feature phone.. But its an OS, so you really dont want it feeling like an iPod....

4. No GPS, no Business email and documents, battery life??, and the list goes on and on .....
-------------------

So unless they can invent a market segment that really doesnt exist??? Which they might?!?!

By the time this even comes out, all the phones it was comparing itself to will be discounted to the max, and next generations will be starting to appear... I can switch carriers and spend $500 for an iPhone(wait I cant switch cariers, they dont even support our area) or I can spend $80 on a Blackjack/Q/Dash and buy a $30 SD card... I wonder what all the college aged kids and young professionals will lean towards once they really think about it and see them in action...

And really, chances are by June the WM World will probably have some kind of VGA small form factor PPC Phone Edition device with more memory and the same bells and whistles, that will compete very nicely with this in specs... It just wont say Apple and wont be locked down(and yes probably wont be as pretty).

[Craig Horlacher]

Any company that can sell mp3 players with no screen will be able to sell this.

It's not for me. A touch screen and no stylus input? No tactile feedback (important for driving and pocket operation)? Forget it. No removable battery on a phone...are they crazy?!?!

Typical apple hardware. Cool look, some good software, and features for the masses. Not for me.

I'm sure those who do buy it will love it!

[SteveHoward999]

My Nokia S60-series phone has a problem with crashing that's gotten bloody annoying..

There was an s60 firmware upgrade a month or two ago, Did you try installing it?

I've got 2 s60 phones, and I think they are great. Funny thing is, I've just got an E62, and love having the keyboard. Don't like the form factor though, I think I prefer a slide-out keyboard. But the price was right.

So now I doubt I'll buy anything that does not have a full qwerty keyboard, which means the iPhone is out.

Plus you just know it'll scratch up like the iPod!!

[Marty1781]

The iPhone looks very sleek and I think the interface is going to be really slick from what was demoed, no doubt everything will be nicely integrated and done with the user in mind. That being said, I think there are some major flaws in the iPhone that will seriously hurt this device:

1. No Office/Exchange/Direct Push support meaning you can throw most potential corporate customers out the window, ie. the kind that are more than willing to drop $600 on a phone

2. According to Engadget, the OSX version on this phone will be locked down so no 3rd party programs. I can see the logic behind this as often, 3rd party programs can cause devices to freeze or run slow and Apple obviously want the best user experience possible so locking out 3rd party programs will accomplish that nicely. Unfortunately, many power users (myself included) will not accept that and thus this device is not an option for people like me (again, another group of people that are willing to drop $600 on a phone that Apple has managed to exclude)

3. No 3G. Ya, its more than likely coming on v2.0 of the iPhone in 1-2 years but that does no one any good NOW. What good is that Safari browser without a decent internet connection? EDGE isn't going to cut it and while there is wifi, its not always free nor always present. 3G data obviously caters to a large portion of people (hence people are paying for it). If there was no real demand for it, you can bet the wireless providers wouldn't be investing the millions into it that they are. As a poweruser, I'm not accepting any device that doesn't have 3G data.

4. No removable battery. That's fine if this were an ipod only but since its a phone, it needs a removable battery for swapping when yours goes dead for the day or can no longer hold a charge. Palm received a ton of complaints about the lack of one in the Treo 600 and promptly fixed it in the Treo 650. Looks like Apple is going to have to learn their lesson the hard way on this one too.

5. No hard buttons. Unlike the relatively immature DAP market Apple entered into when they introduced the iPod, the cell phone market is a relatively mature one and consumers have spoken: hard buttons are what work, touchscreens alone don't. No doubt Jo Consumer is in for a shock when he picks up an iPhone and realizes that unlike his $50 flip-phone where he can dial one-handed without even looking, he needs to use two-hands and look at the iPhone to dial, he's not going to be very happy about it. I can't even imagine what it is going to be like trying to type out an email, text message, or entering in a URL on this thing. I suppose a big virtual QWERTY keyboard will popup and take up half the screen, no thank you. Try to click on a link on a webpage with your finger, doesn't seem like it will be the easiest thing to do.

6. Price. $600 for an 8GB video iPod with integrated phone and internet capabilities, seems a bit steep to me. Sure, there are a good number of people willing to drop $500+ on a phone (evidenced by the numer of smartphones out there). But a large proportion of those people are the power users and corporate customers and if you are going to leave out major features that they are use to having in their smartphone, I don't think many of them will be willing to drop that kind of money no matter how slick the interface is. That leaves Apple with the general consumers and I don't think many of them are too willing to spend $600 for a "cell phone".

Other things that bother me about the iPhone:
- no wireless download of music from the iTunes store. This would have a really killer feature for the iPhone. The ability to get new music on-demand wherever you are when you want it, that would have been awesome and I think would have been enough to convince some people to spend the $600 on this device. Apple missed a real opportunity there.

- no removable storage card slot. Not necessarily to store more multimedia but more so to easily transfer other file types (PPTs, spreadsheets, etc) from one computer to another, just pop it in a card reader on the computer you want to transfer to and that's it. With no storage card support, would need to carry around an iPhone cable/dock to get the file off the phone and onto the computer. But I guess you could just use a USB flash drive for that purpose. Still, would have been nice for the iPhone to have a card slot, one less thing to carry around.

- 3.5" screen with only a 480x320 resolution. Many PPCs with a 3.5" screen (Universal, Dell Axim, etc) have a 640x480 resolution. For $500 and a 3.5" screen, I expect that same resolution no matter what OS the device is running.

- metallic finish on the iPhone's back. seems very iPod like and thus easily scratched. not good for a $500 phone.

[Nurhisham Hussein]

Here in thailand this will never sell without gprs.
I like the size, weight, screen etc. and hope second gen wil have a good camera and gprs--so I am still leaning towards Nokia N95

You can' have EDGE without also having GPRS, since EDGE is just an add-on to a GPRS network (unlike the situation with 3G).

[Frankie1]

The iPhone looks very sleek and I think the interface is going to be really slick from what was demoed, no doubt everything will be nicely integrated and done with the user in mind. That being said, I think there are some major flaws in the iPhone that will seriously hurt this device:

1. No Office/Exchange/Direct Push support ...

2. According to Engadget, the OSX version on this phone will be locked down ...

3. No 3G. Ya, its more than likely coming on v2.0 of the iPhone in 1-2 years but that does no one any good NOW. What good is that ...

4. No removable battery. That's fine if this were an ipod...

5. No hard buttons. Unlike the relatively immature DAP market Apple entered into when they introduced the iPod, the cell phone market is a relatively mature ...

6. Price. $600 for an 8GB video iPod with integrated phone and internet capabilities, seems a bit steep to me. Sure, there...
Other things that bother me about the iPhone:
- no wireless download of music from the iTunes store. This would hav...

- 3.5" screen with only a ...

- metallic finish on the iPhone's back. seems very iPod like and thus easily scratched. not good for a $500 phone.

Excellent Excellent Excellent Post! You really removed all the smoke and mirrors with that post. For a while I was caugt up in the hype, but after reading your post a couple times I realized why I love my HTC Universal. Thanks for the post, now I can wipe the sweat off my forehead.

[Macguy59]

I could care less about the iPhone. I'm probably the only person that is not excited by it. I hate the Apple Corporation, I hate their products, I hate MacOS and I hate their philosophy.

Thanks for the well reasoned post :roll:

[virain]

It is new, interesting, and long time awaited with lots of speculations. Oooh, IT's Mac! :devilboy: So what? Look beyond the hype, what does it have to offer? Stylish design? yes, it's a plus. Touch screen? Go over reviews of PPC phones on this site, and how many complains and cries you'll find that there's no keyboard? Plenty! But because it's Apple I guess lock of a keyboard is an inovation :mrgreen: . It does has some PDA functions, not much software? Connectivity, quad-band GSM, EDGE, Ahm, What is happened to 3G? Sorry, Cingular has HSDPA network, Iphone has Cingular logo, but no 3G? So, the buttom line is it's just a stylish toy, for people who wants to "look cool" 0X , and not the power users. But it has a chance to replace your regular I-Pod.

[cameron]

Nobody yet seems to have considered how a stripped down version of OSX will work on the small processors available for PDAs which have only a tiny fraction of the processing power of desktop CPUs.


OSX has already been ported to an ipod.

OSX on an iPod (http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20050401064920219)

32mb of RAM at that.

[Menneisyys]

it uses OS x, but it will never be full os. There is no possiblity that this device has more than 1gb ROM. If you play with linux a little bit, the most stripped linux can be only 100mb, so I believe this OS is almost a highly stripped os x, which means installing any third party applications will need install a lot of libraries at the same time.


Theoretically, you could also put anything (unless the system is completely messed up &amp; restricted) on the built-in HDD - as with OpenBSD and the Zaurus 3x00 (http://www.openbsd.org/zaurus.html).

(Also see this for other Zaurus distributions (http://www.oesf.org/index.php?title=Distributions) if interested)

[kiwi]

heh heh - these posts are great! - Both sides of the table :-)

6 months of hype to come I guess

[Hagow]

I must admit I was blown away when I read this artical on the front page...and after 24hrs and a nice sleep I came to the conclusion that it's an Ipod video with phone capabilities and web.

Personally I am not an Ipod fan at all nut don't get me wrong, I don't mind people buying/using the Ipod either, because it does what it is suppose to do well. To me the iPod and the iPhone is for the masses but not for me.

The iPhone seems to have alot of restrictions on it, and I can't customize it like I do with my PPCPE. Will I be able to go onto MSN, play my SNES and other emulator roms on it? Can I edit my Exel, Word, photos on it? Will I be able to put wikipedia on it? How about Skype can I use Skype on it or make it into a webcam?

I know that these are really dumb questions but I think speaking for myself, I took all those things above for granted because I(we) have been doing it so much that we just expect it. Now I don't think iPhone can do some of the things I mentioned above...but it's a nice looking phone!

My point I guess is, I like to customize and be able to do alot of stuff with my phone...so I will wait for the next best thing, as I can't be happier right now with my M600+.

Just my 2 cents!!!

[Cybrid]

My, How soon we forget? :lol:

WinCE stands for Windows Compact Edition. If I sourced correctly, a stripped down version of Windows 95. It has been rebuilt considerably since 1.0. Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Windows_CE_Timeline.png)
It isn't out of the realm of possibility that OSX could also be stripped similarily and also have the same consequential limitations.

As such I wouldn't expect this phone to do things that the hardware is simply incapable of. It might support limited Java, Ajax, etc much like PIE or similar mobile browsers but it won't be able to support everything...
It'll be better than PIE for sure but I'd love to see a head to head against Opera.
Just impossible. Same with any other application.

One thing to remember, a simplified GUI usually means a lack of options...so while Textmaker is fully featured, it is far more complex than Word Mobile. iPhone will also have similar failings. What'll make that worse is the fact that 3rd party apps are locked out. Sux to be you... :roll:

What Apple is really selling is "Clique". The cool factor, show how little you know but do it in style :lol:

Definitely not a power user device. Maybe give it to my kid to fiddle with. :oops:

[barky81]

Sure, Apple will sell millions of these...but at what cost to their current business?

The iPhone is pretty much the size of a 30-gig Video iPod, only without the storage...

Once the iPodders start buying iPhones, they WON'T be in the market for annual upgrades to new iPods.

Each $600 iPhone (revenue split with Cingular) will wipe out at least two or three iPod upgrades (revenue retained by Apple).

And the lesser storage will probably restrict the rate of video sales on iTunes.

So maybe they will surprise us with a iPhone-Only Subscription to iTunes that will drive the additional sellthrough and revenue they need.

That will leave the mp3 player market to the "also rans".

I would assume the v2 iPhone will show significant storage increase.

Biggest surprise of the launch? The absence of a pair of bluetooth stereo headphones that support phone features too. Well, I guess they held those back till next year...seriously, Apple's just about shot it wad as far as future announcements go.

After all, now that delayed gratification has been satisfied is there any reason to call?

What is left? A Tablet? Ultraportable? Everything else is incremental.

But if Apple thinks people will swap out $600 phones more often than every two years (contracts are contracts), they are about to find out phones are different.

In fact, even though my Cingular 8125 does EVERYTHING the iPhone does, I recently bought a Zune...

[Tye]

Nobody yet seems to have considered how a stripped down version of OSX will work on the small processors available for PDAs which have only a tiny fraction of the processing power of desktop CPUs.


OSX has already been ported to an ipod.

OSX on an iPod (http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20050401064920219)

32mb of RAM at that.
Wasn't that an April Fools joke?

[gt24]

The iPhone can be a major damaging hit to standalone PDAs. The consumer side seems to be quite popular at the moment.

Consider that Microsoft and Apple are fighting over the living room... essentially the entertainment side of things. The iPhone fills that role pretty well, from what I see, with the Windows Mobile side being more business oriented. However, Windows Mobile devices tend to be converged devices anymore... there hasn't been a lot of standalone PDA releases.

The iPhone releases, consumers buy it... Microsoft responds by innovating on the Windows Mobile side and releases.... phones. In other words, Microsoft goes to war and defends the area Apple is releasing in... the converged device area. So, while war wages the standalone PDA gets forgotten.

Unfortunately not everyone wants a converged device...

[whydidnt]

In fact, even though my Cingular 8125 does EVERYTHING the iPhone does, I recently bought a Zune...

So what makes you so sure people buying the iPhone won't do the same thing, but replace the Zune with the latest iPod?

I still say the biggest obstacle to success faced is the lack of hard buttons. Unless Apple's touch screen magic really is magic, people who are heavy phone/text users will NOT like the experience. It won't take long after release for word to get out to the masses that this is an issue.

What intrigues me about this device is the fact that Apple has proven that you CAN make a reasonably sized phone with a large hi-resolution screen, WiFi, Bluetooth AND include 8 GB of flash memory AND still sell said device for under $1,000. Are you listening MS &amp; HTC? :bad-words:

[Tye]

Sure, Apple will sell millions of these...but at what cost to their current business?
Don't know, but Jobs--love him or hate him--is not a stupid guy.

Once the iPodders start buying iPhones, they WON'T be in the market for annual upgrades to new iPods.
Why not? I generally buy one PPC per year and one phone per year. Combined, they are about the same price as this.

Each $600 iPhone (revenue split with Cingular) will wipe out at least two or three iPod upgrades (revenue retained by Apple).
Agreed. And I don't know the financial details, but as before, Jobs has done a pretty good job while at the helm.

I would assume the v2 iPhone will show significant storage increase.
Agreed again, but at 8gb, it's enough storage for many people. I do know some who carry around 60gb of music but I know a lot more who carry only 4gb. I have a 2gb card in my PPC and it carries a lot of stuff! 8gb would be a huge leap for me.

Biggest surprise of the launch? The absence of a pair of bluetooth stereo headphones that support phone features too. Well, I guess they held those back till next year...seriously, Apple's just about shot it wad as far as future announcements go.
Agreed, but developing this thing couldn't have been easy. It probably took a lot of resources. Accessories will come out by the aftermarket guys.

What is left? A Tablet? Ultraportable? Everything else is incremental.
Good point, I guess we'll have to wait and see. Personally, I don't see the iPhone as a small announcement, even though before it was unveiled I didn't really care.

But if Apple thinks people will swap out $600 phones more often than every two years (contracts are contracts), they are about to find out phones are different.
I strongly disagree with this. A lot of people swap phone/PDA combos often, even at the expensive prices.

In fact, even though my Cingular 8125 does EVERYTHING the iPhone does, I recently bought a Zune...
I have a PPC6700 which does pretty much everything I want it to do too. I agree with you there. My problem with the PPC WM5 platform is that it's still not easy to do a lot of this stuff. It works, yes. But it's not always simple. That's one place where I hope Apple will leap ahead.

barky81, I promise I was not picking on your post. You just happened to hit on a number of items that I've wanted to comment on.
I'm not an "Apple Fanboy." The only Apple product I've ever owned is Newtons. You could, however, call me a "Newton Fanboy."

[zetsurin]

Sure, Apple will sell millions of these...but at what cost to their current business?

I'm afraid you wrote that post looking backwards, not forwards. There is a lot of potential for further revenue streams with these phones. Wait and see. But to look backwards and keep falling back on your core rather than being forward looking is a very Microsoft thing to do. Take a look at the front page of this site right now, only one thing looks new and refreshing while the rest are all 'seen it before' devices. You want history just to keep repeating on itself? What a yawn.

[Menneisyys]

OSX on an iPod - 32mb of RAM at that.
Wasn't that an April Fools joke?

It is - see my RAM-related posts, as far as Linux / pdaXrom on the Zaurus is conerned, here (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1097355&amp;postcount=36).

[T-Will]

Other things that bother me about the iPhone:
- no wireless download of music from the iTunes store. This would have a really killer feature for the iPhone. The ability to get new music on-demand wherever you are when you want it, that would have been awesome and I think would have been enough to convince some people to spend the $600 on this device. Apple missed a real opportunity there.


QFT! I was getting ready to do a post about this. I find it hard to believe they would leave something like this out, they do still have 6 months to continue software development, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's included when the iPhone is officially released.

[barky81]

In fact, even though my Cingular 8125 does EVERYTHING the iPhone does, I recently bought a Zune...

So what makes you so sure people buying the iPhone won't do the same thing, but replace the Zune with the latest iPod?

Ahem, first because there is a difference between niche and mass markets...PPCs are niche, iPods are mass market...

Second, I guess I left the obvious unstated in my earlier post: I bought the Zune because I wanted a mobile music subscription service. I briefly considered Yahoo Unlimited to Go, etc. on my 8125, but space is an issue. My current 2 gig card is about full (I convert MCE dvrms files for viewing as well).

The service pricing is about the same ($14-$15 a month), but with the Zune I get the extra space, with the room for my converted TV shows from my MCE2005 as well. So basically, I eval'ed myself into a Zune due to the lack of a 20+gig PPC phone....

Unless Apple gives away multi-device iTunes subscriptions, how could the average user justify buying music for 2 devices?

A side note on What's Wrong with the Zune:

1) No Audible book support (bad)

2) No Bluetooth (worse)
The Zune cries out for a stereo bluetooth headset that pairs with it AND your phone at the same TIME! That's what Bluetooth was always supposed to be!

2) They are targeting the wrong audience in kewl 20s/30s somethings (unforgiveable).
The Zune is the perfect Teen/Tweens tool--because it is subscription-based and wireless. High school kids can't afford to buy every song they want, and they have all day to trade tracks temporarily (plus they could afford $15/month--that's one CD off of iTunes a month). Also, they are obsessively interested in what each other is listening too...

[whydidnt]

QFT! I was getting ready to do a post about this. I find it hard to believe they would leave something like this out, they do still have 6 months to continue software development, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's included when the iPhone is officially released.

I would -- wouldn't that require a rewrite of iTunes? Admittedly, I haven't used iTunes/iPod a lot, but it seems like iTunes controls everything and the iPod is just there for listening songs added/indexed via iTunes. iTunes doesn't seem to be built for true two way syncing of data. Can you add a song to an iPod today without iTunes? If so, does iTunes ever see it and add it to your library?

[T-Will]

Here's an iPhone hands-on article that clears up some questions:

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/01/09/some-hands-on-time-with-the-iphone/

Regarding the screen:
Apple went through numerous iterations of the glass surface, trying to find one that’s not too slick or too rough, or that shows grease and fingerprints too much. You still get finger streaks, but they’re relatively subtle and a quick wipe on your sleeve takes care of them.

[T-Will]

QFT! I was getting ready to do a post about this. I find it hard to believe they would leave something like this out, they do still have 6 months to continue software development, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's included when the iPhone is officially released.

I would -- wouldn't that require a rewrite of iTunes? Admittedly, I haven't used iTunes/iPod a lot, but it seems like iTunes controls everything and the iPod is just there for listening songs added/indexed via iTunes. iTunes doesn't seem to be built for true two way syncing of data. Can you add a song to an iPod today without iTunes? If so, does iTunes ever see it and add it to your library?

You're probably right, but wouldn't it be ideal if Apple stored your music catalog online, allowing you to login to anyone's iTunes/iPod/iPhone and stream your music collection.

Or maybe they could make it so once you purchase a song on your iPhone, you sync back up to your PC and it flags the newly purchased song and automatically downloads to iTunes.

I'm sure Apple could figure out a way if they wanted.

[whydidnt]

Ahem, first because there is a difference between niche and mass markets...PPCs are niche, iPods are mass market...

In the context of this discussion I don't see the difference. Your comparing the iPod to you PPC, but you should be comparing the iPhone to the PPC. The iPhone is going to be used by people while they are on the go with their phone. The iPod is going to be used by people with larger libraries/needs for times when they don't need to be tied to their phone.


Unless Apple gives away multi-device iTunes subscriptions, how could the average user justify buying music for 2 devices?

I could be wrong, but I thought Apple already allowed up to 4 devices to use the same library/downloaded tunes. Can someone correct me if I'm wrong on this? [EDIT] I just checked the online FAQ at Apple. It looks like you can share your library with up to 5 computers and each computer can have multiple iPods connected to it with no mention of a limit there. I don't see an additional financial burden from owning two separate iPod devices, at least as far as music purchases are concerned. [EDIT]

I'm not one that's drooling over the iPhone, I do think that this device can be a nice tool to push MS and it's OEM's to recognize an under served market however. MS has been too busy trying to segment the market to realize that consumers would love an all-in one phone/camera/media player/portable game machine with lots of storage space in a simple easy to use package.

Instead of leveraging PPC and enhancing the OS and included media player enough to fit this niche they have been busy dumbing it down (Smartphone edition) or eliminating functionality (Portable Media Centers).

[barky81]

Once the iPodders start buying iPhones, they WON'T be in the market for annual upgrades to new iPods.
Why not? I generally buy one PPC per year and one phone per year. Combined, they are about the same price as this.

I would assume the v2 iPhone will show significant storage increase.
Agreed again, but at 8gb, it's enough storage for many people. I do know some who carry around 60gb of music but I know a lot more who carry only 4gb. I have a 2gb card in my PPC and it carries a lot of stuff! 8gb would be a huge leap for me.

But if Apple thinks people will swap out $600 phones more often than every two years (contracts are contracts), they are about to find out phones are different.
I strongly disagree with this. A lot of people swap phone/PDA combos often, even at the expensive prices.

In fact, even though my Cingular 8125 does EVERYTHING the iPhone does, I recently bought a Zune...
I have a PPC6700 which does pretty much everything I want it to do too. I agree with you there. My problem with the PPC WM5 platform is that it's still not easy to do a lot of this stuff. It works, yes. But it's not always simple. That's one place where I hope Apple will leap ahead.

barky81, I promise I was not picking on your post. You just happened to hit on a number of items that I've wanted to comment on.
I'm not an "Apple Fanboy." The only Apple product I've ever owned is Newtons. You could, however, call me a "Newton Fanboy."

As I have said to someone else...you are comparing niche to mass market items. The "early adopter gadget freak" market is a niche market. You say people will be happy to shell out $600 a year on an upgraded iPhone when Apple's success has been based on getting them to shell out $100 to $300 on a new iPod while they flash their $99 RAZRs for 2 years...

Re: 2gig/4gig/8gig as "storage". The reason so many iPods are half-full is that iTunes costs a LOT! A thousand tracks is $1,000! Big investment....

With a subscription model, $15/month is UNLIMITED. I filled up my 30gig Zune in about 4 hours the first night I got it....if I play with it all year, and swap out hundreds of tracks every month...the total annual investment is $180...heck, throw in the $250 for the device, and it's still less than HALF.

This scenario does NOT bode well for Apple's current model...Oh and final storage observation is that you omitted VIDEO in your sizing requirements.

In summary, the Zune Subscription model is really going to disrupt Apple's current strategy. I can only assume that the iPhone is targeted to combat that (over time perhaps--you know, strategic roadmap, etc.) by (1) first selling as phone; (2) then converting to subscription iTunes; (3) then upselling the phones with significant storage increases...say that takes 2 years from June...what then?

Maybe Microsoft's biggest problem is it's (pardon the secret pun to come) own size. If it were nimble enough, they could basically glue an Cingular 8125 to the back of the Zune (throw in a little integration) and CRUSH Apple...

Will they? Don't know.

Could they? Absolutely.

After all, the Zune is $249, and the 8125 is $99 (Edit: WRONG, it's $149) with a 2-year contract, so the comparable total is $348 ($398). (And that gives you access to the Zune subscription service.) Heck, they could weld the Zune to the 8525 (3G!) for $648 (Edit: WRONG, it's $598) total...

Perhaps that part of why Apple partnered with Cingular/ATT...

Now, if only Microsoft would just BUY Sprint and accelerate its WiMax rollout, throw down it's own "zPhone" ("answer zee phone") and drive that splintery old stake home once and for all...that would be a good day.

[barky81]

Ahem, first because there is a difference between niche and mass markets...PPCs are niche, iPods are mass market...

In the context of this discussion I don't see the difference. Your comparing the iPod to you PPC, but you should be comparing the iPhone to the PPC. The iPhone is going to be used by people while they are on the go with their phone. The iPod is going to be used by people with larger libraries/needs for times when they don't need to be tied to their phone.


Unless Apple gives away multi-device iTunes subscriptions, how could the average user justify buying music for 2 devices?

I could be wrong, but I thought Apple already allowed up to 4 devices to use the same library/downloaded tunes. Can someone correct me if I'm wrong on this? [EDIT] I just checked the online FAQ at Apple. It looks like you can share your library with up to 5 computers and each computer can have multiple iPods connected to it with no mention of a limit there. I don't see an additional financial burden from owning two separate iPod devices, at least as far as music purchases are concerned. [EDIT]

I'm not one that's drooling over the iPhone, I do think that this device can be a nice tool to push MS and it's OEM's to recognize an under served market however. MS has been too busy trying to segment the market to realize that consumers would love an all-in one phone/camera/media player/portable game machine with lots of storage space in a simple easy to use package.

Instead of leveraging PPC and enhancing the OS and included media player enough to fit this niche they have been busy dumbing it down (Smartphone edition) or eliminating functionality (Portable Media Centers).

See, you make my point. The iPhone is a consumer only device. It will not fit into ANY corporate environment. Most if not all $600 phones to date sell into that market.

If it is your position that the consumer market has been crying out for a good $600 phone, I think you are alone in that belief. That is a niche market.

Re: 4 devices using the same library, again you make my point...I did not say use the same library, I said multi-device SUBSCRIPTION--something they don't offer anyone yet.

Again, I don't see ANYTHING that the iPhone will do that the Cingular 8125 ($99 on a 2 year contract EDIT--should be $149) doesn't ALREADY do. (Except sync with iTunes; and to replace that, I could sign up today with Yahoo Unlimited to Go for almost 2 YEARS (&lt;=EDITED) at the cost of the iPhone).

[whydidnt]

As I have said to someone else...you are comparing niche to mass market items. The "early adopter gadget freak" market is a niche market. You say people will be happy to shell out $600 a year on an upgraded iPhone when Apple's success has been based on getting them to shell out $100 to $300 on a new iPod while they flash their $99 RAZRs for 2 years...

I think you have this backwards. We aren't suggesting people will upgrade their iPhone annually. However, many of the people purchasing an iPhone, either A) already own an iPod, or B) may decide to purchase an iPod for additional storage after owning the iPhone. Much like you did with the Zune.


Re: 2gig/4gig/8gig as "storage". The reason so many iPods are half-full is that iTunes costs a LOT! A thousand tracks is $1,000! Big investment....

I doubt many, if any have filled their iPod fully with iTunes music. Most have large CD collections they have ripped and added to their device. Others have simply stolen the music from Napster, Kazza, Bittorrent, etc, but that's a different discussion.


With a subscription model, $15/month is UNLIMITED. I filled up my 30gig Zune in about 4 hours the first night I got it....if I play with it all year, and swap out hundreds of tracks every month...the total annual investment is $180...heck, throw in the $250 for the device, and it's still less than HALF.
I agree. The question is - has Zune's DRM model fixed the issues many of us experienced with MS Plays For Sure DRM? For me it wasn't worth the hassle of constantly having to re-download "subscribed" music just to listen to it on the go.


This scenario does NOT bode well for Apple's current model...Oh and final storage observation is that you omitted VIDEO in your sizing requirements.


Sorry, can't agree with this statement. You are underestimating the loyalty of Apple's user base. People who buy the iPhone will use it to complement their iPod, not replace it.


In summary, the Zune Subscription model is really going to disrupt Apple's current strategy.

You mean the way Plays for Sure did? We had multiple music stores and multiple devices to chose from yet, Apple still dominates the market, despite the fact that Rhapsody, Yahoo, Napster, etc all have been offering subscriptions for over a year now. Reports are that Zune is not selling well, and it is still a product in search of a market.

Your idea about marketing to the teen crowd is a very good one. However, iPods are still cool - and in teen's eyes, all the positives you mention aren't going to convince a teen to try a Zune instead of the iPod that all the cool kids already have. As a father of a teenager, I can assure you that price doesn't matter to teenagers that own these devices and features are secondary to having the "cool" device. MS would have to give away hundreds of thousands of Zunes to high schoolers in NY and LA to start the kind of buzz necessary to attract this crowd. Pretty big indictment on our society, isn't it?

[whydidnt]

If it is your position that the consumer market has been crying out for a good $600 phone, I think you are alone in that belief. That is a niche market.


It's not my position that the market has been crying out for one, just that if created and functional enough it would be popular. The iPhone will prove my point. You seem to be arguing the same thing when you indicate you think it will ruin Apple's margins.


Re: 4 devices using the same library, again you make my point...I did not say use the same library, I said multi-device SUBSCRIPTION--something they don't offer anyone yet.

Actually I edited my post - there doesn't appear to be a limit to the number of device that can use music downloaded from iTunes. If you truly mean subscription, that that's a superfluous argument since they have shown no inclination to offer (or need) subscriptions.


Again, I don't see ANYTHING that the iPhone will do that the Cingular 8125 ($99 on a 2 year contract EDIT--should be $149) doesn't ALREADY do. (Except sync with iTunes; and to replace that, I could sign up today with Yahoo Unlimited to Go for almost 2 YEARS (&lt;=EDITED) at the cost of the iPhone).

Except syncing the 8125 to Yahoo Unlimited is an exercise in frustration that will lead you to either smash your phone or you PC to bits when you have to download several GB's of song for the 7th time because Plays For Sure doesn't can't seem to keep track of the fact that you have an active subscription. Furthermore, let me know when you get 8 GBS of songs/video onto your 8125, as far as I know it's not possible today. Finally, the music player interface on the 8125 cannot even come close to comparing the iTunes interface. It's a perfect example of how MS hasn't attempted to capture this market, and how Apple is going to prove that the market is "big enough" to matter.

[haesslich]

My Nokia S60-series phone has a problem with crashing that's gotten bloody annoying..

There was an s60 firmware upgrade a month or two ago, Did you try installing it?

I've got 2 s60 phones, and I think they are great. Funny thing is, I've just got an E62, and love having the keyboard. Don't like the form factor though, I think I prefer a slide-out keyboard. But the price was right.

So now I doubt I'll buy anything that does not have a full qwerty keyboard, which means the iPhone is out.

Plus you just know it'll scratch up like the iPod!!

No - because the phone won't let me apparently upgrade anything, short of taking it back to the store, sending it off to the nearest Nokia-certified repair shop, then bringing it back. As I said, it's a Nokia 'not-so-smartphone'; which given its age (two years), makes this one look like an interesting alternative, given that my PDA does the rest of the 'smart' functions, so having a device I can watch movies on or flip for a quick web-page check is fine. I don't expect this to replace my Axim.

[belfast-biker]

(quotes from Marty1781)



"No Office/Exchange/Direct Push support meaning you..."


I could have swore that Jobs said it DID have this support.




"No 3G."


I reckon they'll have 3G on it in time for xmas for the EU.




"No removable battery."


Yeah, a minor fault.




"No hard buttons."


I don't know if this is a downside at all, the multitouch interface looked sweet.




"Price."


It's worth it.




"no removable storage card slot."


It's 4 or 8GB. I've only recently upgraded my SD card in my Universal from 1 to 2GB. And that's only for easier access to TV programs.




"3.5" screen with only a 480x320 resolution."


On paper it's not great, but in the demo the screen looked damned good.




"metallic finish on the iPhone's back."


Gorgeous!

[kaiden.1]

Wow..... Why so much Negativism? We should be excilted to see something "COOL" and new on the market. I've been getting tired of seeing the same old WM5 phone being posted on here over and over again with a different color and different manufacturer, but the same phone with a slide out key board? Can't anyone come up with a different design? I feel like it's the same phone and really nothing else? At first it was neat looking now it's getting annoying.... :) Always the same phone......

Apple's iPhone? I have one word to say........BRILLIANT!

I have an iPod, I have a Zune, I have 3 PPC's: WM2000, WM2003, WM 2005,
I can't say that I really like subscription music, but I do subscribe? I really like owning my music and I still love iTunes.

AND YES! I will OWN an iPhone! :)

[Phillip Dyson]

I have to say that when I first saw the device I was quite impressed. It looks great, and probably will have a great iTunes experience. I was even tempted ... briefly. I just can't see myself giving up the flexibility and robustness of the Windows Mobile platform for eye candy. Plus I've been an iPod user and I'm no longer interested in the iTunes ecosystem.

I think the jury is out on how usable this will be with no hardware buttons or stylus. Don't get me wrong, I'm a friend of the touch screen, but sometimes I need the precision of the stylus.

Apple is always great at coming out the gate on a high note. As opposed to MS who always seems to accept releasing a lackluster version 1.0 of their products.

The iPhone is an indictment against all of the PPC Phone manufacturers who are satisfied to let MS spoon feed them the user's experience. Its like companies like to let MS labotimize them rather than try and utilize a creative bone and produce a great user's experience.

At least Palm did a little with their treo, but it didn't go nearly far enough. Its always, lets spend some money on the hardware and use MS as an excuse for what the software will use or look like.

There is potential that this may trigger some fierce competition on the two fronts, but its more likely that MS will put more of their focus on the Zune platform to compete with iPhone.

That being said, I'll probably stick with the WM platform. Its served me well so far. But I'll definitely keep my eye on this one.

[Gerard]

I think it's Jobs' ego which is triggering more hostility than is the iPhone. To be fair, Gates' ego and presumptiousness are more than a match for anything Apple puts in their PR. The device itself has undeniable coolness. I don't think more than a few have contested that, and since coolness is a matter of opinion, not fact, they're free to do so.

This device is being presented as if it were something incredibly new. It's not. Sure, the particulars of packaging and interface are a variation not seen exactly the same in any previous device... but all the functionality and specs are easily found in many, many other devices running WM or even Palm OS. And with what look like a few serious limitations in user choice, data input, and upgradability (battery or memory), the price tag with contract is somewhat hilarious. Still, it'll sell. Apple = marketability. (oh, right, the ROKR.... forgot about that weird little partnership with Motorola)

[SteveHoward999]

There was an s60 firmware upgrade a month or two ago, Did you try installing it?



No - because the phone won't let me apparently upgrade anything, short of taking it back to the store, sending it off to the nearest Nokia-certified repair shop, then bringing it back.


The E62 doesn't replace my E830 for 'serious' book reading and movies on-the-go, but it does an admirable job as a 'runabout' version. I can still read books, surf the internet (fantastic browser!), do emai, watch movies, stream radio etc ... sure no wi-fi, but who needs it with decent phone service.

This kind of expands on one of the other threads of this conversation. You and I both have the phones to extend/suppliment our PDAs which are more powerful in many ways. Others will do the same with the iPhone ... some will see it as an enhanced companion to the Nano, others will see it as a cool runabout to suppliment more powerful devices - iPhone and OQO 2 anybody?

There's room in many of our pockets for more than one device ...

[TMAN]

The funny thing is, the iPhone makes my Sprint 6700 look like a clunky piece of crap the way my iMac did to my HP desktop that's gathering dust. Apple knows how to appeal to the masses.

[haesslich]

There was an s60 firmware upgrade a month or two ago, Did you try installing it?



No - because the phone won't let me apparently upgrade anything, short of taking it back to the store, sending it off to the nearest Nokia-certified repair shop, then bringing it back.


The E62 doesn't replace my E830 for 'serious' book reading and movies on-the-go, but it does an admirable job as a 'runabout' version. I can still read books, surf the internet (fantastic browser!), do emai, watch movies, stream radio etc ... sure no wi-fi, but who needs it with decent phone service.

This kind of expands on one of the other threads of this conversation. You and I both have the phones to extend/suppliment our PDAs which are more powerful in many ways. Others will do the same with the iPhone ... some will see it as an enhanced companion to the Nano, others will see it as a cool runabout to suppliment more powerful devices - iPhone and OQO 2 anybody?

There's room in many of our pockets for more than one device ...

I'm not claiming it would - but my not-so-smartphone is mostly there to take calls... with the ability to take notes as a bonus. I use the music player in it now and then... but otherwise it's a tad unstable (I've had it crash taking a call, if you can imagine that).

For me, the iPhone's a 'cool, I can do this too' sorta device - it takes calls, it can play music if I forget my player... it CAN browse the web if I don't want to fire up my Axim, and it can do things which can be done with other devices should I not have them handy. Most of the negative responses I've seen here so far, or on most forums, relate to either a) it's an Apple product, and Apple products are seen as derivative of original concepts, or b) it's not as good as a real iPod/PDA/Portable Media Center... a concept which I find quite ludicrous as it's not meant to replace any of those for a hardcore user.

It has about as much storage as a Nano - in other words, it's on the high end of MP3 phones. It has the ability to browse the web both with EDGE (bad) and 802.11g (good), so you're not bound strictly to your cell phone comapny's data plan if you're at Starbucks and want to quickly check the weather forecast for tomorrow. It's not as good at watching videos as a PDA or portable video player, but can serve that function in a pinch if you're stuck without power for said device.

Anyone else who claims more for this, and uses that as a reason to justify why it'll crush the rest of the tech world or why it's an overblown Apple product needs to have their heads examined. ;)

[Nurhisham Hussein]

Latest news:

Cisco sues Apple over the iPhone name. (http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/10/cisco-sues-apple-for-trademark-infringement-ruh-roh/)

Apple stock price jumps on iPhone release (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070110/ap_on_hi_te/apple_macworld_49)

Other mobile manufacturers stocks hit (http://news.yahoo.com/s/infoworld/20070110/tc_infoworld/85037_2)

Edit:

Oh yeah, and btw:

3G iPhone on the way (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/macworld2007/rumor-3g-iphone-coming-227850.php)

[Marty1781]

(quotes from Marty1781)

"No Office/Exchange/Direct Push support meaning you..."
I could have swore that Jobs said it DID have this support.

"No 3G."
I reckon they'll have 3G on it in time for xmas for the EU.

"No removable battery."
Yeah, a minor fault.

"No hard buttons."
I don't know if this is a downside at all, the multitouch interface looked sweet.

"Price."
It's worth it.

"no removable storage card slot."
It's 4 or 8GB. I've only recently upgraded my SD card in my Universal from 1 to 2GB. And that's only for easier access to TV programs.

"3.5" screen with only a 480x320 resolution."
On paper it's not great, but in the demo the screen looked damned good.

"metallic finish on the iPhone's back."
Gorgeous!

- it will support Exchange through basic IMAP/POP3, that certainly makes integrated mobile access of all the great Exchange features (Global Address Book, Direct Push, etc) a non-option for the iPhone. Office support is still non-existent on the iPhone.

- a 3G iPhone in the EU does no good for the people here in the US, a very small percentage of which will have the know how to unlock an EU 3G iPhone

- how minor a fault is it going to be when the battery runs out after a long day of use and you need to make an important phone call or grab a critical email and the battery is dead. try telling that user that its just a "minor fault"

- The mature cell phone market has already said what works and what doesn't and touchscreens alone aren't it (this qwerty keyboard thing isn't just some fad that's going to disappear overnight). One-handed operation and tactile feedback are the keys here and if Apple thinks they are going to somehow reverse the overall preferences of an already established market with their fancy UI, they are in for a surprise. Some people (such as yourself) will like it no doubt but I really don't think most general consumers are going to go for it like the iPod once they realize how important one-handed use and tactile feedback are to them (which coincidentally are things the iPod excels at. Go figure, a hugely successful mass consumer product and it happens to have great one-handed use and tactile feedback, Apple should have taken some cues from their own product that works well instead of going in the completely opposite direction and eliminating some of the very features that makes its own iPod a success).

- Maybe its worth it to you just like my $500 smartphone is worth it to me but $600 cell phones (a big difference from a $300 iPod) just are not overall hot sellers in the general mass consumer market (which is who this device appears to be largely targetted towards, its certainly not targetted towards the corporate crowd). Lots of expensive products are arguably "worth it". Being "worth it" doesn't all of a sudden make something affordable, obviously.

- I already explained why in my previous post removable strorage would have been a nice feature in the iPhone and the reason wasn't to hold more multimedia.

- demos and real-life use are very different. However, I'm sure the screen is great (I'm not debating that), but again, as I state in my previous post, if I'm going to drop $600 for a phone with a 3.5" screen, it better have at least the same resolution as devices that have the same size screen, cost less, and are over a year old. I don't think that is unreasonable at all.

- not going to look so "gorgeous" when that shiny finish gets all scratched up

[joker]

You claim things which YOU don't know AT ALL, basher.

This is first generation.

Yahoo will provide free push mail to every iPhone owner. Did you sleep?

You are comparing babies with grown ups, not so smart.

[mv]

I love touch screens... that said, $600 for a consumer device? it´s incredibly cool, but too expensive for most people...

[kiwiruss]

I am liking it.

looks great, fairly good features, although no sd or microsd slot and a built in GPS would have been nice. google maps wont help if i am way up in the Michigan upper peninsula where there is no cell phone reception.

I'll wait to see if they permit third party apps to be installed.

(like an osx version of tomtom navigator ;-)

[Gakusei]

Except for the lack of 3G, it's a homerun to me. I'm a Mac user who's been using Palm and then Windows Mobile for years, and am ready to finally have an Apple branded PDA (and phone to boot) that integrates tightly with the apps I use (iCal, Mail, Address Book, Safari, Dashboard, etc).

I can see that smartphone/WM people definitely lean more towards MS, and that's great. I really hope Apple's entry to the market hurries up MS in getting an Aero (Vista) inspired WM to market more quickly, and creates a cycle where the two are constantly improving their software. Competition is good for all of us.

[dma1965]

After seeing this up close at MacWorld I am convinced that it will sell faster than beer at a ballgame once it is released. It may lack the nifty enterprise features, but consumers will lap it up. It just screams style, and that is what Suzie Q consumer is buying these days.

[petvas]

I believe the iPhone is going to revolutionize the way we think about mobile phones. Its innovative, it uses 210 patented technologies
The User Interface is absolutely fantastic, the integration of all these technologies is simply put, unique!

I have already preordered the device on the german amazon where it is on the first place of the charts already!!!

http://www.amazon.de/Apple-iPhone-8GB-Handy/dp/B0002W4P0C/sr=8-2/qid=1168614420/ref=sr_1_2/303-3866785-0845002?ie=UTF8&amp;s=ce-de


After I saw all videos and read everything I could about the iPhone, I suddenly became angry and very disappointed with companies like Microsoft, Nokia and Sony-Ericsson. What are they actually doing? Taking our money?
Yes, they have improved their technologies over the years, but they do it in a very dull and uninnovative way. They just dont have the ability to really think innovative. Money is not the issue here. Look at Microsoft. They are spending 5 billion dollars a year for research! It makes you wonder, why they bother at all! They just don't have a vision. Thats what's really been missing.
Microsoft had developed a very bad user interface for Windows Mobile that is slow, strange to use and surely doesnt appeal to the normal people. Only tech freaks can get used to that (like myself).
I recently had the iPaq 6915 and while the features list is great, if someone takes a look in how they really work, he/she will get disappointed... Just have a look at Safari on the iPhone...Then go and open Pocket Internet Explorer...It just makes someone die laughing with Microsoft...

Look at the Mail app, or the Pictures app (if u can call it an app)

and lets not forget Windows Media Player....
IPOD rocks!

I don't think I am going back to Windows Mobile for many years to come, I hope that Microsoft one day realizes that money isnt everything and start thinking about people...

Please guys, dont compare the iPhone on a feature basis with a Windows Mobile device...Its more like a philosophical comparison that must be made...

For those of you that want to stay on the Windows Mobile camp, I wish you all the best!

[msanto]

I love the graphics and icons... they are way cool. Cingular may even end up with a lot of new subscribers as a result of this device, and only $499 for the 4GB model ($599 for the 8GB)? You really can't beat that.

I didn't like the fact that it doesn't have 3G. Instead, it's a quad-band GSM + EDGE.

You can't beat that? This is obviously a consumer phone as no exec is going to use it for email ... and that price puts it out of the range of most consumers.

Also, no 3G? Everyone I know was saying what a waste it was and what a load of @#$ Jobs was selling when he was saying how instantly you could access stuff.

It's good, but the price is going to limit its appeal.

[Gakusei]

Don't forget that the RAZR debuted exclusively on Cingular for $499. Just saying.

[Carlos]

And the Razr is a piece of crap, all style and no usability, and still made it. This has style, usability, and a merging of features in a way that hasn't been done before.

I read this entire thread on my PPC last night in bed, with much amusement. The Apple anti-fansboys are truly good for a laugh. Like the phone or not, like Apple or not, this will change the PDA/phone world, period. It's impossible to argue that point.

[TOCA]

Sorry havent read all the posts in this thread, but if it have not allready been posted, then here's the way to get your verry own iPhone, within 20min.

Go to this page: http://iphonecountdown.com/iphone_readymech.pdf and download the PDF file, send it to your printer, and get bussy asembling the iPhone :wink:

Make sure it's ready to be flashed on your office table, by monday morning 8)

[haesslich]

Sorry havent read all the posts in this thread, but if it have not allready been posted, then here's the way to get your verry own iPhone, within 20min.

Go to this page: http://iphonecountdown.com/iphone_readymech.pdf and download the PDF file, send it to your printer, and get bussy asembling the iPhone :wink:

Make sure it's ready to be flashed on your office table, by monday morning 8)

Is it 3G capable? ;)

[ghost_deini]

APPLE SUCKS....i joined the forum just to say that

[SteveHoward999]

APPLE SUCKS....i joined the forum just to say that

I'm proud for you.

[Carlos]

APPLE SUCKS....i joined the forum just to say that
Very insightful. Great first post.

[TOCA]

Is it 3G capable? ;)

Depends....If your kolegues asks, then yes :wink:

But it lags portrait mode :?

[TOCA]

APPLE SUCKS....i joined the forum just to say that

Your mom will be so proud of you :roll:

[Carlos]

But it lags portrait mode
I suppose you missed the part where they mention the automatic portrait mode, based on how you hold it? Wonder what else you missed...

[haesslich]

APPLE SUCKS....i joined the forum just to say that

My God - a post that makes Apple quake with fear, made in such an anonymous and eloquent fashion. I'm sure that your mother would be proud of it, if only... well, I'll leave that bit alone.
:twisted:

[jlp]

But it lags portrait mode
I suppose you missed the part where they mention the automatic portrait mode, based on how you hold it? Wonder what else you missed...

Carlos,

He was refering to the printable (PDF file) cardboard mockup he pointed to a few posts above NOT the actual iPhone :D

[kaiden.1]

This has been a fun post to watch and read! If anything, I can see that the MS group lovers are HATING the fact that Apple has done something GOOD! We should all be cheering that this will change everyones way of doing mobile phones, and that helps everyone.......are we all so bitter that we choose to be blind and negative over a good thing? Maybe you are just a negative person anyways?

So let's feel better by hang our hat on the fact that it's too expensive for the average joe consumer? ........ :lol: People buy things that they want because they want it not because they can't afford it!

Remember back.......Even the iPods earlier days were ridiculed for being too expensive for a silly music player........Look where it is now, doing so well that others have copied and followed. I think people have forgotten that the iPod was looked at as too expensive and doomed to fail because the public couldn't afford it.

Let me ask you this question, do you like being told that you can't afford something that you really want? Of course not, and you will save up and purchase. We love expensive cars, we love expensive clothes and we love to eat good food and we buy it because we want it not because we can't afford it.

The public always has a mind and will of it's own and even though we can try and predict the outcome, the only real test is what the facts produce when the product actually hits the marketplace. That is and always will be the only test. Everything else is speculation!

I think that the iPhone will be a HUGE hit! I think that we will see many others follow suit and we will also see many new things from others come out of it all..... This in the end will be a good thing for all of us. So relax! If you don't like Apple or the iPhone, don't buy it! You have choice just like everyone else and you can keep doing the same thing you've always done. I plan on buying one. For me, I will need to save up my pennies like I did when I bought my WM5 Ipaq. I will show off my iPhone everywhere and to everyone! It will be fun! :)

[Gerard]

In all the comments so far, has anyone said "don't buy the iPhone"? If they have, I missed it... please provide a direct link. So, it's okay for an Apple fanboy to suggest that Windows users making critical comments about the iPhone are trying to stop people from buying the thing, but it's not okay for Windows users to suggest that there is a bit of hyperbole coming from Apple with this publicity junket? I suggest to you, and to all Apple acolytes, that freedom of speech is at issue here. Please try to avoid slamming others who haven't 'drunk the koolaid.'

I don't care how many buy iPhones. Doesn't matter to me either way. My interest is more in the psychology of this sort of thing, the way corporations are sometimes so adept in manipulating large numbers of people with hype. There's bound to be an effect on the competition - already has been, with share prices jumping and falling all over the cellphone marketplace - in wealth distribuition and product design and marketing strategy. Great, maybe (or not) that will be a good thing. My earnest fear, if small, is that the effect will be a dumbing-down of device specifications to suit the unwashed masses. Or... this could trigger a contest of one-upmanship, where we soon see WM devices even more loaded with features and UMPCs dropping in price besides. That'd be cool. I doubt it'll happen, as Microsoft's partners for the most part seem a bunch of chicken****, cheap, greedy companies who don't understand that a lot of groundwork needs to be done developing the market for portable computers before real profitability comes into play. No imagination for the most part. The true innovators, such as Toshiba and Casio and even Compaq, seem doomed to fall by the wayside while mediocrity does modestly well in the marketplace. Microsoft itself has shown almost zero interest in promoting awareness in the general populace of the range of WM implementations and features. So I applaud Apple's willingness to be different, while at the same time wish they'd be a bit less interested in unjustifiable hype. The iPhone isn't all that exciting, but it is a start.

[Phoenix]

I'll echo many of the sentiments here...

The iPhone looks like a nice AAIO (almost-all-in-one) device, but it needs true GPS, video and voice recorder functionality, WiFi sync, and the ability to allow third-party apps.

Eventually, 3G would also be a good addition, but that's not as crucial to me at this point.

These features would certainly help the iPhone's success. But out of the ones I mentioned, the ability for users to load aftermarket apps is the most important, and without this, the phone would largely be an overpriced ornament. Or at least overpriced.


I will say though, that although the iPhone isn't a device I'll be sporting (at least until they add the features I mentioned above), I am soooo glad that Apple made this phone and will be releasing it soon. Their efforts have really raised the standard (at least on some levels, but not all) and challenged all other designers/manufacturers to raise their standards in the same areas as well, in order to match what Apple has done.

All of this benefits the consumer in the end and I can't wait to see what HTC and others will have up their sleeves as they race to catch up.

[SteveHoward999]

These features would certainly help the iPhone's success. But out of the ones I mentioned, the ability for users to load aftermarket apps is the most important, and without this, the phone would largely be an overpriced ornament. Or at least overpriced.


I think Apple have it right. This is a consumer phone, aimed at consumers with little or no interest in tinkering. They just want a device that does what it says on the tin.

That interface, with all the moving stuff, slding and animating all over the place looks fantastic. But you can bet that most of us here (we're the tecchie types remember?) will soon get bored of that in favour of getting the the information faster and more easily. Less technical users will be less concerned by such.

In fact, you can bet most of the target uers for this device will probably think it is a whole new class of toy, having never heard of PocketPC, Palm, SmartPhone etc. All their experiences of such technology will have been with their cell phones as they have become increasingly smart recently. But most of that has still ben with the (relatively) cheap, lower-end stuff. It's the business and tecchie owner that has been buying all the PDAs and 'smart' phones up to now ... Apple is going to help change that.

[whydidnt]

Did anyone see the SNL skit on Saturday night? Steve Jobs did an excellent job poking fun at himself and the iPhone introduction. Promising that it could hold 2 Billion songs and provide an iGenie to do all your bidding. I don't recall the exact quotes, but it was quite refreshing. He obviously recognizes the hype and decided to satire it for free publicity on SNL. The video was up on YouTube, but NBC asked it be pulled -- heaven forbid they receive free advertising. :roll:

I still think the jury is out on the usability aspect of this phone. I know many of you think that Apple has figured this out, but I really think the lack of hard buttons is going to be a major annoyance to the target market. The zoom thing is overrated. My Sony UX has a zoom feature that is rarely used because it's a pain to scroll left and right, as well as up and down to read a page. You either squint our use a fit to screen browser. I hope Apple really hits a home run with the tweaks to the touch screen they are introducing, but my touch screen/phone experience has not been all that positive.

[Gerard]

Yeah, watching the video demo of Safari's zooming feature on YouTube made me cringe a bit. Shades of Pocket IE under PPC2000, only with much smaller text. Unreadable at the default page load scale. An infuriating amound of side-to-side scrolling just to read normal text. It'd be great for zooming in on the odd small image I suppose, but for substantial reading just annoying. Netfront or Opera, or even Pocket IE in WM2003 and later, handle fit to screen a lot better. Perhaps the Safari in the iPhone will also offer such an optional view... but they didn't seem to think it was important to mention, if so.

[Phoenix]

I think Apple have it right. This is a consumer phone, aimed at consumers with little or no interest in tinkering. They just want a device that does what it says on the tin...

I understand what you're saying, and there may be truth in that.

On the other hand, I think for $500 or $600 and a two year contract with Cingular (and even more if Apple sells it unlocked), it's much too high of a price to not have the ability to load aftermarket apps and customize the device to suit your own needs. Besides, virtually all of the people who buy this thing will own a Mac or PC anyway (which will be necessary to take advantage of many of the iPhone's features), and they manage to load software onto those machines, so why would this be any harder?

This is a very expensive, high-end device, and I would tend to think many people who spend this kind of money on it are going to expect more.

I realize that we "Techies" have more knowledge than most, but sometimes I think we underestimate people.

Either way, we'll find out in about six+ months.

[WyattEarp]

I like the lack of physical buttons, it's just something to get use to like the keyboard on anything smaller than a standard sized keyboard. Physical buttons seem so passe, for current devices, this is the 21st Century isn't. I thought techies I would love the idea, especially when that is next and logical step in the evolution of the keyboard.

[haesslich]

I think Apple have it right. This is a consumer phone, aimed at consumers with little or no interest in tinkering. They just want a device that does what it says on the tin...

I understand what you're saying, and there may be truth in that.

On the other hand, I think for $500 or $600 and a two year contract with Cingular (and even more if Apple sells it unlocked), it's much too high of a price to not have the ability to load aftermarket apps and customize the device to suit your own needs. Besides, virtually all of the people who buy this thing will own a Mac or PC anyway (which will be necessary to take advantage of many of the iPhone's features), and they manage to load software onto those machines, so why would this be any harder?

This is a very expensive, high-end device, and I would tend to think many people who spend this kind of money on it are going to expect more.

I realize that we "Techies" have more knowledge than most, but sometimes I think we underestimate people.

Either way, we'll find out in about six+ months.

You know, the people who own RAZRs and other fashion phones don't seem to care much about installing extra software - either it's slow or else they dont' want to pay the phone company (who provides the software for most phones which aren't WM or Palm) an extra couple of dollars PLUS the data fees. Remember that most of the phones out there right now do NOT run Windows Mobile or Palm - they run Symbian 60 (Nokia) or else the customized Linux installs of Motorola and Sony-Ericsson; they're the majority of the market, and most of the programs available for them are usually available only through the marketplace that the phone company provides; things like Java-based games primarily, with the odd 3D title. \

Most people only download ringtones to their phones, or upload photos and videos from these things, and only now has music become fairly popular due to the arrival of relatively cheap external storage (the SD card family). Most of them do NOT install extra software - do not make the mistake that you, the PDA user or PDA-phone user, is 'the average Joe' that they're aiming this for; this is being aimed for your parents or for those teenagers or 20-somethings on the bus who use their phone as an MP3 player or as a camera, who want something pretty to look at and which can do a few other things.

Maybe 10-20% of people who get phones which can download programs really DO download any applications - and these are usually the games the cell phone company provides, unless the phone is a Nokia in which case it's easy to add new software (due to a fairly active S60 development community). If you've looked at the marketplace that cell companies provide, you'll notice that they dont' sell much in the way of games or applications - most phones include basic trackers, alarms, and so forth already. What they DO have in large quantities are the things that really sell; ringtones, MP3's, the odd wallpaper or theme. Thus, I can see Apple's position that a closed development system would be beneficial - a lot of people who program for phones usually create games, if anything. If you want a more complex application, you jump straight to Palm OS or Windows Mobile - and these are NOT the people who are being targeted by the iPhone's hype machine.

Between the iPod functionality of the iPhone and the novelty of the touch interface, we're seeing that Apple is going after the same people it always has - the fashionistas, the True Apple Believers, and the people who want a simple plug-and-play solution for music and video but who dont' need a lot of extras like additional applications... and who probably wouldn't use them anyways. For the rest of us, there's HTC and other PDA-phone companies... and man, has HTC stagnated over the years. Maybe this'll revive the HTC of old, which brought beautiful devices like the original h1900 to market, which were stylish and somewhat useful.


I like the lack of physical buttons, it's just something to get use to like the keyboard on anything smaller than a standard sized keyboard. Physical buttons seem so passe, for current devices, this is the 21st Century isn't. I thought techies I would love the idea, especially when that is next and logical step in the evolution of the keyboard.


From some of the reviews I've seen, there are complaints among some of the reviewers that it's hard to get used to the virtual keyboard and they've occasionally had issues with it detecting the key to the left or right of the one they're 'pushing' being entered instead, so I wonder whether the virtual keyboard that Apple's using is ready for prime time yet.

Physical keys have one advantage - you can see if they've been pushed in or not, which is good for 'touch-typing'; with the virtual keyboard, there's no feedback until you see it entered on the screen, by which time it may be too late to correct things (once you miskey 3-4 letters, according to one reviewer at PCWorld, it's pretty much impossible to correct the mistakes - you have to trash the whole word and start over).

[Phoenix]

You know, the people who own RAZRs and other fashion phones don't seem to care much...

You have some good points there. I hear what you're saying. But I'm not entirely convinced of who the target audience is (although I have my ideas) or that they won't care much.

It may very well be as you and others have suggested, but that's going to be an awful lot of money and commitment right out of the gate for the average person just so they can get their hands on this thing. I think when people spend a lot of money on any one device, expectations are much greater.

People aren't used to loading software onto a phone because as you suggest, the majority of phones people are sporting are dumb phones that don't have the capability in the first place. But many, many people are used to ripping, downloading, and uploading songs, photos, and videos to iPods, which this iPhone offers. They'll be using this device as a PIM and an email client, so there will be the uploading and managing of new data sets there. So I don't think the idea of loading software is much of a stretch beyond that. Not to mention, this iPhone and its given feature set are going to free peoples' minds and very possibly increase their desires and expectations yet even more, as a result.

Remarks about this device being marketed to "mom and dad" requires some clarification, as moms and dads come in all ages. But to be more specific, and although there are exceptions to the rule, I don't see this device as receiving a big response from most who are forty and older. Not initially, anyway; later on I think this will change more. Along with that age group, I just don't believe as many people as some think, are going to consider it so crucial to have iPod and internet functionality in their phone that they'll commit to a great cost and a two year contract and an expensive data account and a potential switch to a new service provider they may not even like or be ready to switch to (cancellation fees, anyone?); especially considering that most people own dumber phones that they may already be satisfied with. So for starters, I don't see this iPhone as being marketed to the average person who's currently satisfied with their RAZR or fashion phone; I see this iPhone as being catered to a group somewhere in between the average RAZR owner and us - a group who will have a bit more knowledge and higher expectations from the start (although not quite at our level).

As this iPhone will undoubtedly increase peoples' awareness (including even those who don't own one) of the possibilities and other similar devices such as WM phones (as frequent comparisons will arise), and which I don't think will take long, this could provide yet another opportunity for their expectations to increase. And once they realize that their precious iPhone won't allow for the kind of customization WM allows for the same price, I believe they're going to be disappointed.

I would think the iPhone would evolve in response to this, which is not out of the question considering that this is the most technologically advanced portable device Apple has ever released. They must have realized there's a group of people out there who aren't geek-classified, but whose expectations are increasing beyond that of what a RAZR can fulfill, otherwise, I don't believe Apple would've spared the time and expense of making the iPhone in the first place. So it's conceivable to think that they would adopt that line of reasoning with its evolution, as well.

As technology continues to evolve, becoming more pocketable and affordable, and as a result, more commonplace, larger amounts of people these days are increasingly becoming technologically aware. I don't think the idea of data uploads, customization, and management is as big of a deal for many people as it once was. And this iPhone, with all of its features, will help to prove some of this. Software downloading isn't much of a stretch beyond that. So although this is a great first effort from Apple, I think peoples' expectations will very possibly be greater than we sometimes realize.

But we'll see. If not at first, I believe they will be very soon after people have a chance to use the device for awhile. The honeymoon will end and they'll long for more capability.

[haesslich]

Well, to respond to some of your points...


It may very well be as you and others have suggested, but that's going to be an awful lot of money and commitment right out of the gate for the average person just so they can get their hands on this thing. I think when people spend a lot of money on any one device, expectations are much greater.

People aren't used to loading software onto a phone because as you suggest, the majority of phones people are sporting are dumb phones that don't have the capability in the first place. But many, many people are used to ripping, downloading, and uploading songs, photos, and videos to iPods, which this iPhone offers. They'll be using this device as a PIM and an email client, so there will be the uploading and managing of new data sets there. So I don't think the idea of loading software is much of a stretch beyond that. Not to mention, this iPhone and its given feature set are going to free peoples' minds and very possibly increase their desires and expectations yet even more, as a result.

You know, the iPod's been doing VERY well for a device which 'only plays music' and only recently started offering video AND game functionality on top of the built-in alarm feature. The majority of phones sold these days are NOT smartphones; they tend to fall into either the category of fashion phones (RAZR, KRZR, various RAZR knockoffs), camera phones (the Sony Ericsson Cybershots, etc), and MP3 phones... or the very, very basic phones that are harder and harder to come by these days that have none of the above features. Most of the phones you'll see in the stores are either basic camera phones, basic MP3 phones, or phones which combine the above three categories to some degree or another.

What do people use their phones for on the bus, in public while waiting for someone, or otherwise when they have a moment? From what I've seen, their usage tends to fall into one of three categories:

1) Phone use: this is obvious. Chatting on the phone, talking to friends, looking up phone numbers.

2) Text Messaging: Text messaging is pretty cheap on most plans, and it's a lot faster than phoning, plus doesn't require real-time interaction so you can send a quick message to a friend '@ the park', 'lol', 'k, c u soon', and so forth.

3) MP3/Camera use: I've combined these activities into one category, as they represent the employment of a secondary feature of most phones; I've seen people using these in place of an iPod Nano (rarely), or else to take photos or scan through photos they've taken.

How long has the iPod been around? Since 2000 or so: I remember when the computer store I worked at first got these, about two years after the Nomad Jukebox and Archos had come out. Downloadable games became available for the iPod since 2004-2005ish, when the 5th Gen iPods came out supporting video and color screens. Prior to that, it was possible to flash Linux onto an iPod or even run a (slow) version of Doom on them but for the bulk of users, it wasn't really a big thing. Now, how many people do you see playing Solitaire or Bejewelled on their iPods? How many people now are playing games on their iPods, compared to the people who use them for music? How many are using these to store photos (a capability which has been around for the past two or so generations) and view them?

Just because they're uploading music to the thing doesn't mean they'll use it for other purposes, even if it's possible to do so. The addition of video playback to iPods hasn't resulted in a rush of people (aka: the non-technogeeks) trying to install applications to them. Their desires and expectations seem rather low, or else they just want the damned thing to play music and don't care about the other possibilities.


Remarks about this device being marketed to "mom and dad" requires some clarification, as moms and dads come in all ages. But to be more specific, and although there are exceptions to the rule, I don't see this device as receiving a big response from most who are forty and older. Not initially, anyway; later on I think this will change more. Along with that age group, I just don't believe as many people as some think, are going to consider it so crucial to have iPod and internet functionality in their phone that they'll commit to a great cost and a two year contract, as well as a potential switch to a new service provider, especially considering that most people own dumb phones. So for starters, I don't see this iPhone as being marketed to the average person who's currently satisfied with their RAZR or fashion phone; I see this iPhone as being catered to a group somewhere in between the average RAZR owner and us - a group who will have a bit more knowledge and higher expectations from the start (although not quite at our level).

The contract issue is where things get sticky - if I was a Cingular user, I MIGHT be tempted to get one, just because my current Nokia's a 'not-so-smartphone' which the iPhone would easily take the place of, having similar features (camera, music capbility, web browsing) along with a few bonus features mine currently doesn't have (WiFi, touchscreen interface, Widget capability). However, some articles have stated that the estimated 'price-to-build' for the iPhones, based on the parts involved, is around $250... which leaves Apple a lot of headroom should the item sell poorly, to do price cuts to encourage adoption. Motorola's been doing this with the RAZR v3's and v3i's over the past few years, to the point where the once-expensive fashion phone ($399 with contract) has dropped to bargain-basement prices... and the $500 pricetag doesn't seem so excessive in a marketplace that recently saw people shelling out $600 for a PS3 that didnt' even have a lot in the way of games available for it.

Considering that this unit theoretically replaces a $250 iPod Nano 8GB (price from the Apple store) that cost the same, plus whatever phone they may have had prior, it's not THAT horrible a deal. Expensive, yes, but not completely out of the question.




As this iPhone will undoubtedly increase peoples' awareness (including even those who don't own one) of the possibilities and other similar devices such as WM phones (as frequent comparisons will arise), and which I don't think will take long, this could provide yet another opportunity for their expectations to increase. And once they realize that their precious iPhone won't allow for the kind of customization WM allows for the same price, I believe they're going to be disappointed.


There are personal media players which do a lot more than the iPod do, but look at what people are buying - iPod, iPod Nano, iPod Shuffle 2nd Gen, etc. I don't see a lot of disappointment there - you're projecting your expectations on others. Those who WANT the extra customizability, and are willing to invest the extra time (and money - remembering that most of the applications you're talking about are often commercial) to customize said units tend to know enough to go right for a smartphone based on Windows Mobile or Symbian Series 60.

Being simple but stylish has NOT hurt Apple's bottom line any the past 6 years.


I would think the iPhone would evolve in response to this, which is not out of the question considering that this is the most technologically advanced portable device Apple has ever released. They must have realized there's a group of people out there who aren't geek-classified, but whose expectations are increasing beyond that of what a RAZR can fulfill, otherwise, I don't believe Apple would've spared the time and expense of making the iPhone in the first place. So it's conceivable to think that they would adopt that line of reasoning with its evolution, as well.

As technology continues to evolve, becoming more pocketable and affordable, and as a result, more commonplace, larger amounts of people these days are increasingly becoming technologically aware. I don't think the idea of data uploads, customization, and management is as big of a deal for many people as it once was. And this iPhone, with all of its features, will help to prove some of this. Software downloading isn't much of a stretch beyond that. So although this is a great first effort from Apple, I think peoples' expectations will very possibly be greater than we sometimes realize.

But we'll see. If not at first, I believe they will be very soon after people have a chance to use the device for awhile. The honeymoon will end and they'll long for more capability.

It's been six years, and I don't see people talking about how limited their iPods are - they offer JUST enough functionality to satisfy them, without getting needlessly complex. Remember; the more that a device can do, the more complicated and problematic the interface usually becomes. There's a reason that PDA phones usually come with a slide-out keyboard, touchscreens, or end up having special launchers and docks; they NEED them to operate most of the functions, and thus have menus which go 3-4 levels deep in order to allow users the ability to access every one of their functions. In comparison, a simple phone usually has a main menu, and maybe 2-3 layers if you're going into the guts of it to adjust something highly advanced for it, if that.

We'll see where Apple's decision to make application development in-house will lead it; it's hurt the Mac OS X series as a whole, although whether the lack of software for that platform relative to Windows is due to the relative expense of the hardware up till recently or due to the position Apple takes with content creation is a question that will take time to resolve. Previously, the problem was due to the expense of the hardware as well as the fundamentally different processor architecture provided by the PowerPC and earlier 68000-series platforms versus the relatively uniform x86 environment; now... we'll see.

Seriously, though - how many people do you know willingly download applications to their phones, even when they're able to do so? And the way Jobs targeted the iPhone launch goes against your assertion that it's aimed for people who have 'higher expectations of a phone' beyond dialing out and listening to music; the presentation he made suggests it's for thsoe people who want a phone that's relatively easy to use, can sync with iTunes, and which can browse the web... not for the heavy-duty gearheads who want to be able to modify every part of the OS.

I DO know a lot of people who have problems with smartphones primarily because of the menus you have to go through to do anything, and because Windows Mobile tends to be a tad clunky even in Smartphone version for basic usage. Palm has made great strides with making Windows Mobile usable in a phone situation (look at how many people cheered the simpler interface, ease of looking up items in the address book, ease of dialing), but it has a long way to go to be simple enough for most users while retaining the power that the OS promises. Plus, I'll readily admit that I HATE converged PPC/phone devices because of the menus; even with the addition of softkeys, I find that WM isn't very usable as a phone and almost always requires two hands to do anything unless it has a touchscreen.

A big complaint I hear about most phones is that they're getting too hard to use, which is probably why Alltel's CellTop experiment is so interesting; they're unifying the menu structure, and setting things up so that most of the phone features are easily accessible with little more than two or three button presses. The other way around this is to put dedicated application buttons on the phone, such as camera phones which have dedicated camera buttons or easy ways to enable the camera feature (the Sony-Ericsson k790i/k800 allows you to activate the camera with the camera button, or just sliding down the lens cover)... but this results in an ugly, overbuttoned phone (the more buttons on there, the easier it is to inadvertantly activate something). One of the iPhone's interesting features in this respect is what appears to be a simplified interface to most of its features... and I do wonder how they'll do.

[SteveHoward999]

The majority of phones sold these days are NOT smartphones; they tend to fall into either the category of fashion phones (RAZR, KRZR, various RAZR knockoffs), camera phones (the Sony Ericsson Cybershots, etc), and MP3 phones..

I have to say that by my definition, RAZR etc are smart phones. Provided, that is, you are talking lowercase smart phone, rather than Smartphone :-)

It is almost impossibe to find a phone that doesn't have most of the following features:-

camera
email
calendar
sync with PC features
web browser
feature expansion via Java or Flash
music player
video player

Flash and Java have the ability to give the phone applications that can do almost anything.

These add up to a smart phone. In other words, the vast majority of new phones acquired in the last two years are 'smart'.

I don't doubt for a second that lots of people are now used to downloading ringtones, pictures and video. Downloading and installing applications is a less common thing, but it would be wrong to imagine tha tis not a growing market.

I strongly believe Apple are marketing the iPhone at consumers who like the canned device model - a device that switches on and works. It will come with plenty of software and toys to keep the majority of users happy, but over the next couple of years the more adventurous users will demand more expandability. Then the iPhone will be forced to evolve into something that can challenge Symbian and Windows Mobile for versatility and expandability.

[haesslich]

The majority of phones sold these days are NOT smartphones; they tend to fall into either the category of fashion phones (RAZR, KRZR, various RAZR knockoffs), camera phones (the Sony Ericsson Cybershots, etc), and MP3 phones..

I have to say that by my definition, RAZR etc are smart phones. Provided, that is, you are talking lowercase smart phone, rather than Smartphone :-)

It is almost impossibe to find a phone that doesn't have most of the following features:-

camera
email
calendar
sync with PC features
web browser
feature expansion via Java or Flash
music player
video player

Flash and Java have the ability to give the phone applications that can do almost anything.

These add up to a smart phone. In other words, the vast majority of new phones acquired in the last two years are 'smart'.

I don't doubt for a second that lots of people are now used to downloading ringtones, pictures and video. Downloading and installing applications is a less common thing, but it would be wrong to imagine tha tis not a growing market.

I strongly believe Apple are marketing the iPhone at consumers who like the canned device model - a device that switches on and works. It will come with plenty of software and toys to keep the majority of users happy, but over the next couple of years the more adventurous users will demand more expandability. Then the iPhone will be forced to evolve into something that can challenge Symbian and Windows Mobile for versatility and expandability.

I wouldn't call the a smart phone - smart phones, at least from the old definition I'm used to, allow you to run and install productivity applications which don't need Java to operate: my s60 phone, for example, can run OggPlayer and a photo editing suite, although the latter takes up a LOT of system RAM and I don't really use it.

Applications have been a bit of a non-starter since the Java/BREW platforms were deployed 3 years ago mostly because of two things, from what I can tell: expense of program, and limited utility of said programs. Most of the 'applications' I see are either games, or else things like movie listings or similar which don't do all that much. AIM and other programs for instant messaging have to be already part of the ROM, and can't be added like they can in Windows Mobile or Palm devices... which means that if your phone doesn't come with that type of client built in, you're not going to be able to use it. Plus, the data charges on TOP of the purchase prices for those limited-purpose applications tends to be a bit of a drag on widespread usage of them.

Or, to put it another way, how many people do you know who download more than one or two free games onto their phone, or are willing to pay to do so? Yes, they're available, but how many people really do it, compared to those who are happy to drag out a GBA, DS, or PSP and then play those while on the go?

I do agree that the iPhone is directed towards people who want a limited, but simple to use, device; I'm one of those people, in all likelihood; my PDA takes over most of the functions that the 'smart' phone would do.. and it's easier to use than Windows Mobile SP because of the touchscreen and more powerful processor. PLUS it means that I don't kill my phone's charge handling PDA-based activities, which is an important consideration most smartphone designers don't take into account: the more functions you have, and the more they're used, the greater the drain on the phone's battery... which means no calls can be made if it's out of juice - negating the phone's utility.

This MAY drive a development of the iPhone towards more 'open' application development, but it may also set things up so that Apple will start selling widgets directly to consumers or allow others to create Widgets which will run on the iPhone, which would increase its utility while avoiding the so-called security issues that the closed OS is supposed to protect carriers from. Heck, Cingular and others may start selling Weather and Traffic widgets of their own, designed to interface with their own networks... and this may well succeed better than the Java-based applications they've been trying to sell to date.

One more problem with Java-based apps: a lot of phones have different specifications, hardware-wise, which makes deployment a PITA when it comes to programs. Smartphones have one advantage in that they tend to have fairly standard requirements to run the OS the phone uses in the first place, which makes programs a little easier to code for them (and Palm and MS along with Nokia make their SDK's available, which eases the development process a bit) and the environments are a lot more homogenous than they'd otherwise be.. so you don't have to worry about whether you've got X or Y feature on the phone; it just has to have Windows Mobile 5 and 32MB of RAM (a minimum for WM Smartphone, it seems) and you're good.

[SteveHoward999]

Most of the 'applications' I see are either games, or else things like movie listings or similar which don't do all that much.

I think you would see things differently if you actually had one of these phones. I took a little time trying to find software for my wife's RAZR and found applications that can replicate pretty-much everything I do with my PocketPC - not that I know if they are better/worse/same as the PPC software, but the applications are there. Same for my Nokia 6682 and E62, except that for these I can say for sure that the applications are at least as good as the PPC equivalents.

I have little doubt that your average teenager is more interested in ringtones and soft-porn images of their favourite movie stars than PIM clients. Never forget, though, that today's teenager is tomorrow's business user. Just because it may be true that your typical phone user TODAY is not so interested in installing applications that this makes such a feature irrelevant or undesirable, because you can be sure they'll be using their phones for more things tomorrow.

[haesslich]

Most of the 'applications' I see are either games, or else things like movie listings or similar which don't do all that much.

I think you would see things differently if you actually had one of these phones. I took a little time trying to find software for my wife's RAZR and found applications that can replicate pretty-much everything I do with my PocketPC - not that I know if they are better/worse/same as the PPC software, but the applications are there. Same for my Nokia 6682 and E62, except that for these I can say for sure that the applications are at least as good as the PPC equivalents.

I have little doubt that your average teenager is more interested in ringtones and soft-porn images of their favourite movie stars than PIM clients. Never forget, though, that today's teenager is tomorrow's business user. Just because it may be true that your typical phone user TODAY is not so interested in installing applications that this makes such a feature irrelevant or undesirable, because you can be sure they'll be using their phones for more things tomorrow.

I use a Nokia running s60. My sister runs a Motorola RAZR... and outside of the games which come on it, she doesn't seem much into downloading them. The other phones I've seen used in public (on the bus, waiting for things in line, etc) are usually being used for IM or maybe Snake or similar simpler games which are usually built into the ROM. As I noted, Symbian s60 phones from Nokia are among those I consider a smartphone, primarily because they're easier to install productivity applications to. The RAZR ones I've seen, but tend to discount due to the observations I've made in public. You and your wife may be using these, and the programs ARE there and available... but I dont' see them being used often in public.

Most BUSINESS people, on the other hand, are using HP iPaq phones, Blackberries, or Treos, or at least the ones I usually run into at work or downtown. :D Most of them don't seem to be using their RAZRs for heavy PIM work, from what I can tell - contact lists, the odd alarm or appointments, and so forth seem to be the limit there.

With the convergence of PDAs into phones, you're right in one area - it's almost inevitable that people will be using their phones for much more than just taking calls in the future. At the same time, the iPhone isn't apparently intended for people who'll be wanting 50 things running on their phone at once; those people tend to be the ones who know enough to get a Treo or some flavor of Windows Mobile phone (thanks to HP, Asus, etc). Also, as noted, I suspect that the Widget functionality the iPhone offers may actually take over for a lot of applications for the less-technologically savvy users; they're relatively safe as they're scripts (in other words, they're doing the same thing Java is supposed to do: run in a sandbox which doesn't interfere with the rest of the system's operations), and they potentially provide a lot of light functionality without going too far into the OS.

One thing a phone CANNOT afford to do is crash - the early RAZRs have a reputation for crashing, from what I've seen personally (my sister) and from what I've garnered talking with multiple people who sell the buggers at various cell phone companies. Closing the OS development a bit MAY prevent issues with 'bad apps' crashing the phones (which is good)... but it may not. We'll see how the market votes in a year or so, to see if Apple's stance is borne out or not.

I can say safely that the iPod's popularity has NOT been hurt by its relative lack of applications or the ability to install new features/programs short of changing the OS that operates it. Simplicity has its virtues, as much as we laud versatility.

[SteveHoward999]

You and your wife may be using these, and the programs ARE there and available... but I dont' see them being used often in public.


I didn't gather your emphasis on see as in 'on the bus with my own eyes' from your previous post. I agree totally that you rarely see people out in public doing anything but amuse themselves with their phones.

Well ... not like that, you understand :oops:

I think you and I are in agreement over how we see the iPhone and the use of phones in general. Really our only point of disagreement is in the definition of a 'smart' phone.

[haesslich]

You and your wife may be using these, and the programs ARE there and available... but I dont' see them being used often in public.


I didn't gather your emphasis on see as in 'on the bus with my own eyes' from your previous post. I agree totally that you rarely see people out in public doing anything but amuse themselves with their phones.

Well ... not like that, you understand :oops:

I think you and I are in agreement over how we see the iPhone and the use of phones in general. Really our only point of disagreement is in the definition of a 'smart' phone.

I define smartphone as having an OS which is fairly standard across devices: this means that a WM phone is a smartphone, a Nokia s60-based phone is a smartphone, while a Nokia using the older S30 OS or a Motorola or LG are not; the OS is the key here, since otherwise you've got programs which say "Requires: Nokia 6000, Samsung a720, Motorola v660" instead of "Nokia s60 OS, 3MB storage". That's a LOT easier to write programs for; Java does its bit in allowing usage of the same source code across platforms with minimal rewriting... but being able to write and know that the platform you're writing the code for has the same capabilities (or at least, the same MINIMUM capabilities) encourages more development. Like I said, my s60-based phone has a photo editor loaded into it, along with a music player... and the advantage is that by doing so, I've added OGG support (including ringtones) to a phone which didn't natively support it (it only does MP3 natively). That's expandability for you, and that's a smartphone (or in my case, a not-so-smartphone).

One thing which may encourage application adoption beyond standardizing OS's and interfaces across phones may be a marketplace-wide reduction in data pricing, however; right now, if I intended to download software to my phone, I either have to download it onto PC then send the application to my phone with BT or else I have to buy it from the phone company and THEN pay extra for the data charges. Reducing the cost of a voice-and-data plan would probably encourage me to buy more programs online, or at least to make use of the web functionality that it offers.

Cingular's pricing for the voice-and-data plan that has been proposed for the iPhone SHOULD be of some concern to Apple; too costly a plan, and the phone itself may become an albatross around Apple's neck, no matter whether or not it can sync with iTunes: if I have to pay $80 a month for the voice-and-data package on TOP of the $500 I shell out for the phone... well, I could get a $250 iPod Nano and import an LG phone and be done with it.

Incidentally, the above rumor (I've seen prices as high as $100/mo for a combined voice/data package quoted for the iPhone) is one reason I believe that Apple made a BIG mistake tying itself to one provider. If they'd sold the phone by itself for $500 or so, and made it quad-band PLUS 3G capable (reducing the need to have separate phones for EU/Asia and North America), they'd probably be in an even better position. It's a bit like if they'd sold the iPod back in 2000 but tied it to AOL so you had to get an AOL membership to download music and ALSO had to pay extra data fees because you'd have to dial up AOL to get to the iTunes store... and couldn't rip your own music. I suspect that the iPod would've tanked if they'd tied it the way the iPhone is currently locked down to one provider.

[SteveHoward999]

If they'd sold the phone by itself for $500 or so, and made it quad-band PLUS 3G capable (reducing the need to have separate phones for EU/Asia and North America), they'd probably be in an even better position. It's a bit like if they'd sold the iPod back in 2000 but tied it to AOL so you had to get an AOL membership to download music and ALSO had to pay extra data fees because you'd have to dial up AOL to get to the iTunes store... and couldn't rip your own music. I suspect that the iPod would've tanked if they'd tied it the way the iPhone is currently locked down to one provider.

Yeah but you know fine well this is targetted at the US maket first, then the rest of the world will have to be second. That's US-centric shot-sightedness so far as anyone else is concerned. But it's not as if the US market is not big enough to turn a healthy profit :-)

Plus creating a phone for the World market is rather more hassle - multi-language, multi phone systems, different legal requirements on warranties ... there's a whole slew of things that we will probably never know about and (hopefully) never need to care about to make a device for the wold market, instead of the domestic one.

Also, the US market is used to being tied into their cell-service providers and a closed market is going to be much easier for Apple to work with than a wide open one. As a consumer I think the deal with Cingular sucks. But from a business perspective, I think they did the right thing for themselves.

Apple are going to get a mountain of free advertising over the next few months. Not just because the press has it's lips firmly attached to Apple's rosey behind, but also because Cingular is about to be revamped as AT&amp;T, so you can bet the iPhone is never going to be out of the limelight for 6 months solid before it hits the streets.

[haesslich]

If they'd sold the phone by itself for $500 or so, and made it quad-band PLUS 3G capable (reducing the need to have separate phones for EU/Asia and North America), they'd probably be in an even better position. It's a bit like if they'd sold the iPod back in 2000 but tied it to AOL so you had to get an AOL membership to download music and ALSO had to pay extra data fees because you'd have to dial up AOL to get to the iTunes store... and couldn't rip your own music. I suspect that the iPod would've tanked if they'd tied it the way the iPhone is currently locked down to one provider.

Yeah but you know fine well this is targetted at the US maket first, then the rest of the world will have to be second. That's US-centric shot-sightedness so far as anyone else is concerned. But it's not as if the US market is not big enough to turn a healthy profit :-)

Plus creating a phone for the World market is rather more hassle - multi-language, multi phone systems, different legal requirements on warranties ... there's a whole slew of things that we will probably never know about and (hopefully) never need to care about to make a device for the wold market, instead of the domestic one.

Also, the US market is used to being tied into their cell-service providers and a closed market is going to be much easier for Apple to work with than a wide open one. As a consumer I think the deal with Cingular sucks. But from a business perspective, I think they did the right thing for themselves.

Apple are going to get a mountain of free advertising over the next few months. Not just because the press has it's lips firmly attached to Apple's rosey behind, but also because Cingular is about to be revamped as AT&amp;T, so you can bet the iPhone is never going to be out of the limelight for 6 months solid before it hits the streets.

Well, there's going to be ONE major issue - if the data plans are outrageous, I can see the iPhone becoming a 'lame duck' along the likes of the Newton and Pippin, followed only by the faithful who are willing to mortgage their houses and sell their children to the Russian mafia in order to keep the phones.

Now, if they're $40/mo, I can see people accepting that a lot more easily, which would help adoption of the phone somewhat. I do wonder how they'll do overseas, which is where the bulk of the GSM market is (1.4 billion users in EU and Asia versus maybe the 86 million GSM users all across North America, according to some of the statistics I've seen on the GSM Association (http://www.gsmworld.com/technology/what.shtml) website). Of that 86 million, approximately 50 million of them are Cingular users, from what I recall - there are about 5 million Cingular users still 'stuck' on TDMA phones, out of their 55-60 million total customers. Of course, if even just 5% of those subscribers can afford the iPhone, that's about 2.5 million iPhones sold that first year alone... which would beat the 1.4 or so million iPods sold from 2001-2002 (refer to Wikipedia for those figures).

As you suggest, the North American market really IS pocket change. ;)