Handango closes Omnisoft account?!

[Sogarth]

Disclaimer: I found this through MoDaCo (http://www.modaco.com/index.php?showtopic=247753), who got this information from MSMobiles (http://msmobiles.com/news.php/5692.html), but this is just too ridiculous not to post.

A quick summary of the story: Handango, when dealing with Omnisoft (developer of John Cody's Alerts and a few other nifty programs), decided it would be more expedient to close the account rather than honouring an ad allowance prize! And they did this to an affiliate who had been with them for years! Honestly, I have no idea what they're thinking when they pull stunts like this off, and just adds to the reasons on why buying from Handango is just, well, stupid. Thank god that the Thoughts Media store is now using MobiHand, rather than Handango!

Original announcement here (http://www.omnisoft.com/articles/handango/default.asp), where John Cody has all the gory details, including the rather ridiculous responses from Handango.

And no, I'm not affiliated with anybody in particular - I'm just outraged at this kind of behaviour by the largest mobile software distributor.

[salem]

oops, i just wanted to post this too.

I didn't realize that Handago has got so big market advantage now, so big to threat others not to distribute their products, so big to force small developers out of business and shut their mouth up. Their action this time is definitely worrying.

There're many alternative places to buy PDA software. I'll boycott them forever. Never click their ads , never buy anything from them.

[Catman51]

Bravo. I'm sick of Handango, and their rip off download protection. I am not buying from them either. Everyone should join in and not buy from Handango.

[martin_ayton]

That really is the limit. No more purchases via Handango from me. And I used the link on the Omnisoft forum to send Handango an email to tell them so. Come on - let's get something going here: It's about time that Handango felt the power of the consumer.

[pheral]

Handango really have been rediculous here. In our company we have plenty of 'high maintanance' (as John calls himself) clients, but we have all the time in the world for them if they are pleasant!
I'll certainly be avoiding Handango from now on.

[bystander]

Having read ALL the email, it seems to me that the developer was being quite detailed and careful with his Ad campaign and that Handango was capricious and acted in a manner that I would say borders on Dictator like.

Handango is not a company that one should trust with the sales of your product.

Business Decisions should be based upon mutual trust and mutual benefit. The Company should not be able to prosper with out prosperous developers. It is a symbiotic relationship.

:(

[SHC]

I had an argument with Handango over download protection and found them totaly inflexible and unhelpful. They have such a dominant market position they don't really care a hoot about customers.
I told them to close my account (7 pages of purchases). I will now buy from the developer direct if I can but never ever from Handango.

[gavinfabl]

I sent a complaint off to Handango. I am one of their largest buyers of software and I was appaulled by this.

We need the small developer. All the developer was doing was what anybody who cared about their products would do , and take time and attention to an ad placed.

My view of handango is very tainted. I am positive the competition will take arm and eventually Handango will take notice.

[CorporateJay]

I am not a developer but I don't think Handango chose the right actions. I only hope there is more information surrounding there decision that we are not aware of.

I stopped buying from Handango when I found out about the commission rates they charge developers. I don't have a problem with the commissions especially since a lot of very well known developers still use Handango and depend on them for most of there revenue. If I can purchase directly from the developer, hopefully that is more money in there pocket and maybe a lower price for me in the future or a better product.

It's always business, good or bad - but this seems really bad.

[karen]

No more Handamnya for me, either.

I know Microsoft sells their PDA sofware through them, but I refuse to hand over a credit card number to a company that can use such unethical business practices.

[daS]

It is certainly possible that the email thread posted by Omnisoft does not provide the complete story here. However, if Handango is electing to invoke the terms of Section 1c of their distribution agreement, I would assume they are obligated to disclose their reason to the Software Owner. If they have done so, this information has not been made public by Omnisoft. If they have not disclosed their reason, then they give the appearance that the reason is that Handango does not wish to fulfill their obligation to provide the ad credits owed to Omnisoft and would certainly be a bad faith action on their part.

Again, not knowing all the facts, it's not possible for me to pass judgement, however, all appearances are that Handango is not acting in good faith in their relationship with this vendor.

In any case, I certainly hope that this issue can be resolved in a mutually agreeable way, since such publicity is not in anyone's best interest.

[CTSLICK]

I drudged through the email trail. It has all the appearances that, when presented with detailed questions and logical question, Handango simply took their ball and went home. Words like childish, callous and draconian come to mind. It would have been so much better to work with the developer and gain some positive spin out of this. Instead I have read about this on 4 websites already and the day is young. Bad press travels fast on the internet.

Business must be good at Handango for them to behave in this fashion. But I seem to hear rumblings about bad things with Handango regarding policy changes/enforcement and royalties on a fairly regular basis. I can't put my finger on it but I am getting the feeling that perhaps Handango's behavior was not an isolated offense.

In any case I make every effort to buy directly from developers if possible using PocketGear as a backup to that. I hope PocketGear is treating developers better. I know they have certainly treated me better than Handango did as a customer.

[Mark Kenepp]

It is certainly possible that the email thread posted by Omnisoft does not provide the complete story here. However, if Handango is electing to invoke the terms of Section 1c of their distribution agreement, I would assume they are obligated to disclose their reason to the Software Owner. If they have done so, this information has not been made public by Omnisoft. If they have not disclosed their reason, then they give the appearance that the reason is that Handango does not wish to fulfill their obligation to provide the ad credits owed to Omnisoft and would certainly be a bad faith action on their part.

Again, not knowing all the facts, it's not possible for me to pass judgement, however, all appearances are that Handango is not acting in good faith in their relationship with this vendor.

In any case, I certainly hope that this issue can be resolved in a mutually agreeable way, since such publicity is not in anyone's best interest.

Well put.

I too feel it is unfair to make a judgement just on the posting at Omnisoft. When added to the other issues that have recently been posted about Handango (and to be fair, some negative posting about other online software distributors was thrown in there as well), it is easy to jump on the Handango bashing bandwagon.

Handango is entitled to run their business anyway they want but seeing things like this, make me think that they don't really know how to run a business. Turn a profit, maybe, but run a business, no.

To me, running a business is about the people, not the product. If you manage the people well, everything else should fall into place. Businesses prioritizing product or profit over the people seems to be all too prevalent nowadays.

[Don Tolson]

I also read through the entire email trail, and from what I see, OMNISOFT is just trying to be sure they and Handango are clear about what is being requested.

I didn't see them as 'high maintenance' at all. This is exactly what all of our clients (as we ourselves) want in our line of business -- clarity as to exactly what is to be delivered, for what cost.

I haven't bought anything from Handango for a while now, but I'm very disappointed in the Customer Relations department. If it were my company, we'd be falling all over ourselves to make sure OMNISOFT used their 'gift' and kept spending more $$ with us!

[iPAUL]

8O Today after reading this I opened a ticket over at Handango to have my account cancelled. I fully support John Cody (Omnisoft) on this issue.

I urge other Handango members to put their money where there mouth is in hit Handango where it hurts most by cancelling your account - saying that you're never shopping there again is just pillow-talk. DO IT!

iPAUL

[dequardo]

Do they not have adults working there? Would it kill someone to pick up, gasp, a telephone and actually talk to one of their customers. Appalling customer 'no service'.

I wrote them and will cease doing business if this isn't at least attempted to be mediated.

[jaytee]

Hey, hate to hear something like this happen between Cody and Handango. To be honest I wish they had been patient with him and not just throw him out the window. I never had a problem with Handango, even asking them for help from my mistakes. And, they're the only vendor I know of that uses Paypal for all the products. But I hope this gets resolved. When you're big, it's almost too easy to be arrogant.

[Paul Martin]

After reading the thread, I've cancelled my account with Handango. I've never had a personal problem with them but sounds like John may be just a symbol of their way of doing business.

[Jason Dunn]

So, uh, have I mentioned that our primary software affiliate store is with Mobihand (http://www.mobihand.com/pocketpcthoughts/homeSoftware.asp) now? ;-)

[Paul Martin]

:)

Beyond the affiliate connection, in what ways is mobihand different/better than the other mobile software sites? Thanks!

[aquanaut]

As a PPC user since my first Pocket LOOX in 2002, I thought Handango was a great place to load up on apps. When I got sick of all the problems with my LOOX running ppc2002, I upgraded to an h4150. Time to visit Handango again -- wm2003SE... on two separate occasions in Aug/Sep 2004 my credit card was debited twice and the developers never received a penny. After exchanging several weeks of email with handango's "customer support" person, I was told there was no way to confirm my transaction and no way to obtain the registration code from developer. I explained this to the two developers who subsequently shared similar experiences from other clients -- gave me the registration code and wished me good luck. I then notified my credit card company who graciously refunded both duplicate charges. So in the end, I paid for 1 program each and the developers got nothing. Handango sucks and I avoid them at every opportunity. Now, with my new TyTN (dopod 838Pro), I've filled it up with software purchasing direct from developers -- PI2007, PocketBreeze, PocketContacts, Mobem CE-STAR, Papago, PocketPlayer, Smartphone GPRS Traffic Monitor, FlexWallet, Resco Suite... all purchased either directly from the developer's own site or via an alternative supplier. I've even written to microsoft that making voice commander only available through handango is my #1 reason for not purchasing this program. My rant is over for now... I feel much better now.

Cheers,

[phatware]

I rarely express my opinion in the public forums, but after reading all this, I felt like I should.

I am, as many of you, outraged by the unprofessional business decision by Handango. I've read and reread the original emails between the developer and Handango and still could not understand what had caused this decision. We've been working with Handango since the very beginning, being one the very first developers to distribute the software through their store, and I personally know many people at Handango. I can't actually imagine that any person that I know has made such a stupid decision... But obviously somebody did!

I would be also very surprised if, after this issue was escalated to this level, Handango does not restore the developer's account and through some extra bonus within next 2-3 days, because I believe that Handango have violated their own agreement (our legal advisor is currently reviewing the situation) in the following way:

Section 1c of the Handango distribution agreement states that:

"1c. Distribution. Publisher, at its sole discretion and at any time, may refuse to distribute any piece of Software from Software Owner that it deems inappropriate for any reason. In addition, Publisher, at its sole discretion and at any time, reserves the right to choose which channel(s), as described in Exhibit B ("Channels"), if any, to distribute the Software."

However, Handango closed the developer's account completely, which effectively means contract termination, not a refusal to distribute a specific piece of software as it is stated above. In this particular case, the section 6 (Terms and Termination) of the agreement should be in effect and it states:

"6a. General.... Either party may terminate this Agreement by giving the other party thirty (30) days prior written notice based on any of the following: (i) the other party's failure to comply with any term of this Agreement within thirty (30) days after written notification; or (ii) the other party's insolvency or the filing of any proceeding by or against that party seeking relief from creditors."

And

"6b. Termination. Either party may terminate this Agreement at any time by giving the other party ninety (90) days prior written notice based on any reasoning not listed in 6a (i) or 6a(ii) of this Agreement."

Handango could have either issue a 30-day written statement about the agreement termination or remove a particular product (or products) from the store but without closing the developer's account (as per 1c). Based on the above, Handango actually violated their own agreement with the developer which is a very scary thing to all developers who have this agreement in place with Handango.

At the same time, there are many developers who currently use Handango commerce engine as the primary online store, as we do. Since we currently have an exclusive agreement with Handango for all sales from phatware.com all links on our web site point to Handango store and, indeed, we've noticed drop in sales when this issue has been escalated.

So, basically I just want to remind all of you that by refusing to purchase software through Handango, customers, first of all, punish these developers who use Handango commerce engine for online stores. I think it will be wise to take this in consideration when making this decision.

Well, in our particular case, we can't even include links to other stores on our web site because of the exclusivity of our distribution agreement with Handango (at least at this time). But just in case, if you wanted to purchase our software and did not do it because of Handango, you can always visit a store or a good friend of mine - Alex Kac at https://www.webis.net/ who, in addition to WebIS products, also sells Iambic, Ilium, SBSH and PhatWare titles.

[Jason Dunn]

Since we currently have an exclusive agreement with Handango for all sales from phatware.com all links on our web site point to Handango store and, indeed, we've noticed drop in sales when this issue has been escalated...

Being exclusive to Handango makes you very vulnerable to movements in the market - perhaps it's time to re-think that partnership?

[Jason Dunn]

Beyond the affiliate connection, in what ways is mobihand different/better than the other mobile software sites? Thanks!

I can't say for sure, because you'd probably need to ask a developer that works with Mobihand. I know that they work REALLY hard to make sure I'm happy and are always willing to go the extra mile, so assuming that they treat their developers the same way, I'd say they'd be a great company to work with.

[John Cody]

I just posted an update to this issue:

http://www.omnisoft.com/articles/handango/default.asp

I created a Newsletter on this topic that you can subscribe to for email updates on this issue.

[Will Pinnell]

Hey all-

My name is Will Pinnell, and I am the Senior Director of Content at Handango. In light of the recent posts about Handango seen on Pocket PC Thoughts, I wanted to provide an update. I visited Omnisoft's site myself last week and read the available thread between John and members of our team. I also spoke with him on the phone.

I'd like to assure you that Handango does not discontinue partnerships without cause, nor did we come to this decision lightly. In my nearly seven years at Handango, I've served as an advocate for small developers and appreciate the passion shown in your posts. As a standard business practice, we strive to ensure productive and successful relationships with all our thousands of content provider partners. Without divulging specifics to the community, our collective decision to not distribute Omnisoft's content was based on additional information not publicly shared.

I do admire John Cody's drive to make customers aware of his applications and wish him the best of luck in the future. Although we stand by our decision to not distribute his company’s content at this time, we have issued a payment to Omnisoft in the amount of the remaining marketing credit.

Thank you for your continued enthusiasm about the smartphone content space. We look forward to continuously improving our communications with our valued customers and content provider community.

Will Pinnell
Senior Director of Content
Handango

[Paul Martin]

FYI...this is the EXACT SAME form response he sent to anyone who wrote in to Handango to complain. At least a unique response on this very influential board would have been nice.

[Perry Reed]

Without divulging specifics to the community, our collective decision to not distribute Omnisoft's content was based on additional information not publicly shared.

So how about it, John? What is the "adidtional information not publicly shared"?

Because Handango has been very tight-lipped about this whole deal, we know pretty much only what you've told us. I'm not suggesting that I don't believe you and from what I've read Handango appears to have behaved extremely badly, but I would like to hear the entire story, or as much of it as is possible.

So if they won't divulge the "additional information," will you?

[Paul Martin]

Not that it's much more detail, but now on his site, he does have an update...linked above. For the time-impaired:

I spoke with Mr. Will Pinnell of Handango on the phone. I feel that the contents of that telephone conversation, along with his official response, will only serve to significantly strengthen this issue and has actually created new paths that I can pursue.
All I can say for now is that this is no where near over and I am currently evaluating all my options and will post any updates on this page and will send a notice via the below newsletter:

What to keep updated on the status of this issue?
Subscribe to the "Handango Closed My Account!" newsletter (http://www.omnisoft.com/newsletter/default.asp)

[Perry Reed]

I read that, but unfortunately, it didn't seem to add much light on things.

Again, I want to emphasize that I don't doubt John or take him at his word, it's just that all we have pretty much is his side of things and I find myself wanting more information before I decide for myself to condemn Handango for their actions (although I'm certainly leaning that way).

[Paul Martin]

I agree. I'm not normally a fanboy and don't even own any of his products; the story just seemed particularly egregious. Since I'd already been seeing other complaints from developers over time, I just decided to personally quit buying from Handango. That said, more detail and less innuendo would be helpful.

[ZodiacfreaK]

I just received the following reply from handango after me sending them a scorching email. The full text is as follows *my email then his*

Hello Handango,
I just would like to let you know that after reading this article. http://www.omnisoft.com/articles/handango/default.asp
this company will no longer be purchasing our yearly software from you. I want you to understand from this that you cannot just screw the little guy whenever you want. Now I am letting you know that since you did this and got away with it. We are going to effectively screw you by boycotting your entire company. You will lose much more money because of us than you gained with him. And we will never come back again unless you correct your mistakes. Which can truly never be done for you have shown your lack of class or quality in the highest possible maner. Don't think that I am the only one, there are hundreds of others that will be momentarily emailing you about this and I hope this hurts your business profits to its full extent. Good day and we will never sell our applications with you. At least palmgear is civilized, unlike you.

Steve Davis,
Google

Dear Steve,

My name is Will Pinnell, and I am the Senior Director of Content at Handango. I visited Omnisoft's site myself last week and read the available thread between John and members of our team. I also spoke with him on the phone.

I'd like to assure you that Handango does not discontinue partnerships without cause, nor did we come to this decision lightly. In my nearly seven years at Handango, I've served as an advocate for small developers and appreciate the passion shown in your posts. As a standard business practice, we strive to ensure productive and successful relationships with all our thousands of content provider partners. Without divulging specifics to the community, our collective decision to not distribute Omnisoft's content was based on additional information not publicly shared.

I do admire John Cody's drive to make customers aware of his applications and wish him the best of luck in the future. Although we stand by our decision to not distribute his company’s content at this time, we have issued a payment to Omnisoft in the amount of the remaining marketing credit.

Thank you for your continued enthusiasm about the smartphone content space. We look forward to continuously improving our communications with our valued customers and content provider community.

Will Pinnell
Senior Director of Content
Handango

[ctmagnus]

Will Pinnell seems to be posting a form letter as all replies to any questions to Handango regarding this.

[Catman51]

After everyone has written to them, that canned response over and over and over is getting really agitating.
Maybe they can produce a new form letter?

[John Cody]

I am still pursuing this issue, so please hang in there...

It also just got a big boost with official news coverage:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/31/handango_kicks_omnisoft/

[Paul Martin]

From the article...."In the case of Omnisoft, we stand by our decision to not distribute the company's content at this time, and we have issued a payment to John Cody at Omnisoft in the amount of the remaining marketing credit."

That's good news....I think. Is this a "the checks in the mail" kind of story, or have you received the cash, John?

[Pixelnose]

Well this has certainly affected our bottom line in a huge way. :(

The bad thing is, there aren't a lot of alternatives to Handango for a skinner who lives not in the US. Pocketgear has gotten in trouble in the past for not paying developers, and pays by check, which can't be cashed here. We've received two emails from Pocketgear asking us to sell through them but when we ask them questions they never respond. Doesn't bode well, then. Seriously, you need to be professional and respond to emails, especially when it's you who intiated contact. :|

Then there was some other site that I can't remember the name of, but their thing is reselling mainly to Europe. They offer translation services and all that good stuff, but we have a problem right now as it is offering support to non-English speaking customers. I'd hate to have to deal with a customer who somehow misunderstood and thought we could offer support in, for example, French as a first language. Right now they realize we're trying our best, and we welcome customers who speak whatever language of course. But imagine thinking that we spoke a language we didn't. Of course this company also offers support, but I don't think they can for skins. Sometimes there are questions that only the skinner can answer.

Then there was another company that we actually signed up with, but turns out you can only have like 5 screenshots on your order page. They upped it to some small amount like 11 for us, but it's nowhere near enough to fully show a skin suite. That and they want full control over doing some of the graphics for you, and no way is Juni going to allow that.

So next there's Mobihand, and we'll see what happens there.

I appreciate why people don't like Handango, and we got an email tonight from them out of the blue that was the height of unprofessional. The email basically threatened to cancel our account if we don't say nice things about Handango. I'll post more about that in our blog once we have another solution ready to go.

But understand that the decision to boycott also hurts us. We understand it, but it hurts us too.

[John Cody]

From the article...."In the case of Omnisoft, we stand by our decision to not distribute the company's content at this time, and we have issued a payment to John Cody at Omnisoft in the amount of the remaining marketing credit."

That's good news....I think. Is this a "the checks in the mail" kind of story, or have you received the cash, John?

Hi PmRadio,

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

I did receive $4250 of the $5500 total of my ad allowances. I will be making an update post in a few days with some more details.

[John Cody]

Well this has certainly affected our bottom line in a huge way. :(

Hi Pixelnose,

I am sincerely sorry that this is affecting you - that was never my intention. :roll:

If you want, when you have another solution setup, I could post it on the story page.

[Pixelnose]

It's tough to prove really, but sales have taken a nosedive in the past couple of days. I mean so much so that we've gotten like two sales in as many days. That's not normal for us. But I don't blame you, John. Hardly. I know firsthand how nasty Handango can be, and the more people who speak out, the better. Absolutely, tell your whole story. It's just an inevitable side-affect of boycotting. It's not like we don't have our own paypal store setup, but most people do find us through Handango.

I don't think it's going well for them either. Can it be a coincedence that some small time sellers like us get a nastygram for no reason? Informing us that our account will be canceled if we don't stop disagreeing with their "download protection scheme" - when customers specifically email us to complain about it, and to ask for alternative download methods? And I'd like clarify that of course we don't speak in an inapropriate way to customers. Well, it's in the email anyway.

If they simply chose to enforce a policy, then fine, they can do that, but the nasty way in which they did it would have me demand an apology if I wasn't afraid that simply by doing that, they'd cancel our account.

I'll post the emails once we have a better site to sell through, but I bet a bunch of these nastygrams went out at the same time, and they want to keep us through fear. What is going on at that company?

So yeah, you can add it to the story, I'll just PM you the emails after we have a backup plan, in the event they see this and actually cancel our account. :roll:

update - Woot! Looks like we have a little weekend project moving to Mobihand. :D I'll PM John with email info if he thinks it's worth including in his story. If other developers have been bullied with these nastygrams, please do what you can to setup alternative store fronts, and step forward.

2nd update - not-so-woot! :( What is it with download sites that only allow 6 screenshots and no html? Has anyone seen Juni's site? We need over twice that, and html support. :( Why? Because for pocketpc newbies, they see a screenshot of a skin suite and believe it's a program. So we need the isolated screen of each skin, and the text right there beside it.

Juni's seeing what he can do with 6 screenshots, but from past experience, this isn't going to go well. We need more.

On the plus side, Dave at Mobihand has been a stand-up guy. :)

[Paul Martin]

I did receive $4250 of the $5500 total of my ad allowances. I will be making an update post in a few days with some more details.

Wow! That's at least better than when you started, with a swift kick in the pants and don't let the door hit you on the way out! I look forward to the update and will be checking your site as well, John. Thanks for the follow-up.

[John Cody]

I just made probably the last post on this issue, and I have a big thanks for everyone that helped :)

http://www.omnisoft.com/articles/handango/default.asp

-John Cody

[lapchinj]

I just made probably the last post on this issue, and I have a big thanks for everyone that helped :)

http://www.omnisoft.com/articles/handango/default.asp

-John Cody

I'm sorry, but not so fast, you didn't make the last post (yet). I've just spent the last half hour reading this tale of woe. I think (and your case confirms it) that Handango has forgotten its roots. Companies that forget deals made with a handshake may as well also forget my business. Deals made by former employees of companies should not be written off because someone left for better opportunities. They should have swallowed the entire incident and given you everything Noah said he was giving. After all he had the power to give away that stuff and Handango should have swallowed it. They would have gained a happy dev and a lot of good air time on the forums for being a great group of guys still looking out for the developer. Instead they decided the opposite so here we all are dumping on them instead :splat:

After a couple of personal incidences with them where I got the impression that they had this attitude of 'to hell with the customer' I decided to find other sites to buy my software - at least until they loosened their pants a little. But this tale of woe has made me jump ship never to return to handango. Your not the only dev that I now know of that's been hassled by them. I thought at first that they were just not nice people to do business with but what the heck since I only see an e-commerce site I still bought by them. But I did try to find other places to shop. But your story was the straw that broke the poor camels back. I'm outta there finally :beer:

Jeff-

[John Cody]

Thanks guys (and gals) for all your support. I would not have even received the $4250 if it wasn't for your comments being sent to them!