Thoughts Media Forums: The Long Term Plan

[Jason Dunn]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://forums.thoughtsmedia.com' target='_blank'>http://forums.thoughtsmedia.com</a><br /><br /></div>When I started Pocket PC Thoughts in October 2000, it was a hobby blog born out of my passion to have a place to discuss everything about Pocket PCs. The first version was advertising-free, and paid for out of my pocket. I never would have envisioned that, six years later, I'd have four Web sites, a wonderful team of volunteer editors, moderators, and review team members just as passionate about their respective topics as I am, and be blessed with the ability to do this as my full-time job. Six years is a long time to amass experiences along the way, and to learn from them to make things better for the future.<br /><br /><b>Here's the short version if you're in a rush:</b> by the end of the year, the Pocket PC Thoughts forums will be merged into a new centralized set of vBulletin forums shared with other Thoughts Media sites. <a href="http://forums.thoughtsmedia.com">Go to the new "shell" our forums will be placed in</a> and register <i>using the same username and password you have here on this site</i> (that's really important).<br /><br /><b>Here's the long version if you want to understand why the above decision was made:</b> it's always been frustrating for me that the Thoughts Media Network has four different set of forums, requiring users to have four separate sets of username/password credentials. That's just plain stupid, and not something I ever intentionally set out to do. When we started the first set of forums on Pocket PC Thoughts, I knew nothing about online forum software. The helpful tech guy helping me out recommended phpBB, and at the time it seemed like a good idea so I didn't research any alternatives. The software was free, updated often, and would work with the custom front-page news system we created. When I launched Smartphone Thoughts, I realized having two sets of forums wasn't ideal, but with phpBB being unable to properly support sub-forums, it seemed like an even worse idea to try and combine everything together into one huge list of forums. Lastly, my content management system was designed to work with phpBB, so switching would require a complete re-design.<!><br /><br />When Digital Media Thoughts was launched later on, the problem was only getting worse, and there was the added concern of privacy issues involving data replication of the user database across three sites (which was one solution to not forcing users to have three separate logins). All in all, it was a mess. To make matters worse, the phpBB release schedule slowed to a crawl - bug fixes were all they were putting out. The often-promised phpBB content management system was nowhere to be found, one of the main developers left the project, and as a free product there was no tech support or even anyone to turn to when spammers flooded our board. Because our CMS was essentially a phpBB hack, every time a new version of phpBB came out, upgrading the software was painful and slow.<br /><br />See where this is going? Late last year, in discussions with all team members and my lead developer/designer Fabrizio Fiandanese, I decided to move away from phpBB. I investigated several forum solutions, and decided upon vBulletin for several reasons: some of the biggest sites out there were using it, and all seemed quite snappy and responsive despite their huge size. vBulletin is a commercial product with a yearly fee, which means I'd have access to real support. They update the product regularly, adding new features and security measures. The forum software itself wasn't quite as simple to use as phpBB, but much of that is because their default template isn't terribly good.<br /><br />Picking the forum software was only half the solution though: we had an entire content management system to re-write from scratch, and in order to not get trapped by this problem again, our CMS would have to be written in such a way that it was completely separate from the forum software. It would have to "float" above the forum layer, injecting the post into the forum at the right time. By keeping it separate, it would also allow us to avoid the snares of problematic software updates. So over the past year, Fabrizio and I (well, ok, Fabrizio did all the coding :-D) have been working on this new CMS. We have five years of built-up functionality to replicate and improve upon, so to say that it's a big project is a huge understatement.<br /><br />There are many advantages to the forum merger: with a single login to the Thoughts Media Network, community members will be able to comment on any story, on any site, without having to log in again. This will have the net result of increasing community posts across the network. It also allows editors to easily post a single story to multiple sites, and centralizes community commentary on those posts. Another advantage: subscriber services (once ported over to the new CMS) will be network-wide, meaning you'll pay once and have access to special services and offers on all four sites. It will take us a while to get implemented, but it's definitely a goal. <br /><br />It's important for me to stress that this move is about combining the <i>forums</i> and not the <i>communities themselves</i>. Each site has it's own distinct community, and I don't want to take that away. vBulletin makes it simple for someone to not even have to see the other forums. For instance, on the <a href="http://www.zunethoughts.com">Zune Thoughts</a> home page (yes, we soft-launched today), when you click on the FORUMS link, you are taken right into the <a href="http://forums.thoughtsmedia.com/forumdisplay.php?f=4">Zune Thoughts Forum</a> which is skinned to match the site. There's no need to even see the other forum sections. We'll have a centralized Off Topic forum for all the sites, which saves me from having to post the same thing four times. ;-)<br /><br />There's one disadvantage that I haven't figured out a way around yet: when a user clicks "View New Posts" in the forums, it will show them all of the new posts in the forums, not just the sub-forum they are in. So someone that only reads Pocket PC Thoughts will see new posts from the Smartphone Thoughts forums as well. One possible solution here is to find a way to colour-code or filter the results window, making it easy to quickly scan for the forum posts that interest you. When weighed against all of the advantages, I believe this issue is relatively minor, but I am aware of it.<br /><br />This is a big change, and while I expect some grumbling (few people endorse change) I hope this post explains how and why this decision was made. I value each and every member of this community very highly, and my goal is always to deliver the best possible community experience possible. I believe this move will, in the end, position Thoughts Media and all its communities for future growth and success. I will follow this post up with a short FAQ that will hopefully answer most questions you may have, but feel free to ask about anything I didn't cover.

[beq]

Hmm, I thought the separate thoughts sites had offered separate subscriber services. With the subscription now essentially combined, wouldn't you lose potential extra revenue (while at the same time having greater expenses by paying for vBulletin)?

[Jason Dunn]

Hmm, I thought the separate thoughts sites had offered separate subscriber services. With the subscription now essentially combined, wouldn't you lose potential extra revenue (while at the same time having greater expenses by paying for vBulletin)?

Yes, that's correct (though we never launched subscriber services on Smartphone Thoughts) - but I'm hoping that by having combined subscriber services I can focus more on building the value of subscriber services in general and make up for lost revenue. The number of people that subscribe to more than one site is in the low double-digits, so while I deeply appreciate their support, I'd rather offer them (and everyone else) more value.

[Nurhisham Hussein]

I investigated several forum solutions, and decided upon vBulletin for several reasons: some of the biggest sites out there were using it, and all seemed quite snappy and responsive despite their huge size.

I love this - quite a few forums I frequent use vBulletin, and it's better from an end-user perspective than what we have now (no more lost new posts!).

[Jon Westfall]

It's great to see this finally hit the front page! Knowing of the merger for a bit of time now (along with the other editors and moderators), I can assure any doubters that this will be extremely awesome for all 4(!) sites as well as the communities they serve!

Now I have to go - apparently my forum account on the new beta forums doesn't have my avatar. I gotta fix that!

[Wiggster]

I, for one, am happy to hear of this, and wish the team the best of luck in the logistic headache that lies ahead :D

[ctmagnus]

Go to the new "shell" our forums will be placed in (http://forums.thoughtsmedia.com) and register using the same username and password you have here on this site (that's really important).

Just out of curiousity, what happens if a given username/email address has different passwords for all of the Thoughts sites when that username/email address combo registers on Thoughts Media?

[bbarker]

Congratulations on this big move, Jason. I have been a member of PPCT sine February 2002. I don't participate as actively as I used to but it's still my favorite forum on the Internet. Good luck with the transition in with the future of Thoughts Media.

BTW, I sent you an email suggesting you define Zune at the top of that new forum's home page. I read your introductory comments there but had to look up Zune in Wikipedia to know what you were talking about.

[bnycastro]

this makes sense to me :) good luck with merging the services, i'm sure subscribers and non-subscribers alike will appreciate your efforts.

[Phoenix]

I think this is a really great move, Jason. I can see the logic behind this and I believe it'll not only increase community participation, but ease of use overall.

Great idea. :way to go:

[martin_ayton]

Well done Jason and team. Most of the people here love new toys so this will be right up our street: Something new to play with, to get frustrated by, to bitch about and, eventually, to love unreasonably.

[tregnier]

There's one disadvantage that I haven't figured out a way around yet: when a user clicks "View New Posts" in the forums, it will show them all of the new posts in the forums, not just the sub-forum they are in. So someone that only reads Pocket PC Thoughts will see new posts from the Smartphone Thoughts forums as well. One possible solution here is to find a way to colour-code or filter the results window, making it easy to quickly scan for the forum posts that interest you. When weighed against all of the advantages, I believe this issue is relatively minor, but I am aware of it.

I think this issue have more impact than you think. I think you need to look at ways of filtering or discriminating.

[Jason Dunn]

Just out of curiousity, what happens if a given username/email address has different passwords for all of the Thoughts sites when that username/email address combo registers on Thoughts Media?

I'm pretty sure when we do the database merge we'll ignore the old password in favour of the newer one. The username is the most important part.

[Jason Dunn]

I think this issue have more impact than you think. I think you need to look at ways of filtering or discriminating.

Yes, it's something that's at the forefront of my mind because I know the heaviest users of our forums tend to use New Posts a lot - I don't know what the "magic bullet" solution is, but I'm definitely looking out for it. ;-)

[mattbugz]

I manage an internal forum and recently made the conversion from phpBB to vBulletin. All I can say is I can't believe it took me this long to make the switch! The support at vB is excellent, the software is speedy and the database import process runs pretty well. I agree that phpBB was good to start, but development seriously began to lag and it seemed the developers were just stuck in a never ending cycle of bug fixes as opposed to development of the new platform.

The only disadvantage of vB is the fact that unless you're a developer that understands PHP and SQL, you must rely on the community to get hacks. The selection of hacks (or mods as they are called in phpBB) is not as wide as phpBB and if you need a custom hack, then you basically need to contract it out at vbulletin.org. In my forums, there are still a couple of features that I have been unable to replicate in vBulletin.

However, in the grand scheme of things, the admins/moderators will love the functionality and the users will appreciate the quickness and features such as WYSIWYG posting, built in RSS support, better search capabilities, etc.

[Janak Parekh]

The only disadvantage of vB is the fact that unless you're a developer that understands PHP and SQL, you must rely on the community to get hacks.
Fortunately, Fabrizio is an absolute wizard at PHP. :mrgreen: And I do think the out-of-box advantages of vBulletin are simply amazing.

I'm really looking forward to this integration, too. :)

--janak

[Gen-M]

Sounds like a good thing all around.

My only concern woulld be something having to do with eggs and baskets.

But I have faith that you have that under control.

Change is good for you :lol:

[Airscanner]

Good job Jason! It's a lot of hard work on your part to migrate, but we will all benefit from it!

We've been with you since the beginning, and we'll be there for you until the end!

Brad

[Twain]

One of the things I love about both Pocket PC Thoughts and Smartphone Thoughts is the ability to view everything (including the forums) well on my Pocket PC devices (currently HP HX4700 and Palm Treo 700w).

Will the new vBulletin forums be formatted for easy navigation and viewing on these devices? I visited the site today and noticed that it wasn't easy to read on my Treo 700w.

Thanks,
Twain

[Darius Wey]

Will the new vBulletin forums be formatted for easy navigation and viewing on these devices?

Yes, they will be, and in fact, even better than what we currently offer with Pocket PC Thoughts, Smartphone Thoughts, and Digital Media Thoughts.

I visited the site today and noticed that it wasn't easy to read on my Treo 700w.

A side-effect of the pre-alpha stage. Expect many improvements in the coming months. :)

[buzzard]

For some reason I never read this thread until Darius Wey pointed it out to me yesterday. I have only one concern with combining different interests (PPCT and Smartphones, or whatever) and that was already stated by others above.

Brighthand did this several months ago but they combined Palm and PPC (and another one or two products that I cannot recall anymore) and that site is now 90% Palm threads and posts. They developed some complicated way of getting new posts for specific topics but it didn't work as well as having a separate login for Palm and for PPC's. I rarely visit their site anymore for lack of interest in the Palm product and having to search the site for PPC topics.

Hopefully with the new PPCT there will be an easier way to get to "PPC only" with view new posts if that's what you prefer or the same for the other newly combined products. I don't have any issue with what's being done, I simply am concerned about a PPC centered website that I have a lot of interest in becoming bloated with other things and not have an effective filtering method that will ease the transition.

[Darius Wey]

Brighthand did this several months ago but they combined Palm and PPC (and another one or two products that I cannot recall anymore) and that site is now 90% Palm threads and posts. They developed some complicated way of getting new posts for specific topics but it didn't work as well as having a separate login for Palm and for PPC's. I rarely visit their site anymore for lack of interest in the Palm product and having to search the site for PPC topics.

Our sites will still be separate. Each will retain their own front-page and set of forums. So, what's changed? Behind the fence, we're integrating it all under a single CMS. So, one user name, one password, one subscription service. You can use your single account and post on all Thoughts sites. We're actually working to make access to news and forums easier for you, not harder. :)

[buzzard]

EXCELLENT !!! :werenotworthy: