Old Software Never Dies, It Just Becomes a Liability!

[Jon Westfall]

Recently one of the other editors here wrote to me in an email the following:<br /><br /><i>"[Manufacturer]'s website still shows [Version Number]. Talk about an old piece of software, it's almost one year old. ;-)"</i><br /><br />While one year doesn't seem too long to most, it is a bit long for updated versions of software. Usually around the one year mark, I also start wondering if the software has been abandoned (Thankfully it's a safe bet that the product in our email hasn't - or else my job would get a lot harder!). The discussion got me thinking about older software and how much I miss some of my old "friends" because they were abandoned by their authors. While most of them I still can download or have copies of, I'm leery of installing them as they either don't run as well as they used to, don't run at all, or pose a threat to my other applications and data due to their age.<br /><br />How old is too old for an application to live on your Pocket PC? At what point, without updates, do you feel the need to move on to another product that is updated - or do you simply stick with the old favorites until absolutely necessary? And for sentimental reasons, what application that has been "abandoned" do you miss the most?

[DaleReeck]

I use software (PocketPC, PC, whereever) until I don't need it anymore or something better cones along. Support after the fact is of little concern to me. Hey, I still use Windows File Manager (winfile) :D

[Tierran]

I can't even vote in this poll. If the software is doing exactly what I need and does it better than anything newer (which is the case for some of the software I have) then I don't care how long its been since the last update.

This question really doesn't make much sense to me. Do people really stop using superior software and go to something that doesn't do what they need simply because the developer no longer updates the program the currently use?

[brianchris]

Anyone know what happened to Two Peaks? They used to make the some of the best PPC software out there, but they've been dormant for years.....no upgrades, no Windows Mobile 5 compatability, no resposne to tech support requests.....yet their website's still running and still accepting orders.

[dma1965]

If it keeps working, I do not care how old it is. Microsoft's games pack version of blackjack has been on every pocket pc I have owned since the original iPaq, back in 2000. My 8125 barks at me when I install it, but it still runs perfectly, and is still my favorite version of blackjack on the pocket pc.

[PPCRules]

I don't think age by itself is that significant. On the same device, I wouldn't expect to see a problem if you use it forever.

But more of an issue arises when the OS changes, as when you get a new device (or for the privileged, get an OS upgrade) and the app doesn't work quite right in one way or another, or doesn't work at all. Then it is hard to say goodbye to something you have used previously. The wait for some application upgrades for WM5 has been way too long.

[Nurhisham Hussein]

If it keeps working, I do not care how old it is.

I agree completely - I've had NoteM on every PocketPC/Windows Mobile device I've had or have any input too, despite the fact that the developer has disappeared, as has his website. While showing its age, it still competes well with every voice recorder app on the market.

[Ilium Software]

I think this is a really interesting topic because as developers we are regularly faced with the "When is the next upgrade?" question.

It seems that there is a push (from customers) for more and more frequent upgrades. But here is an example of an all too common conversation for us:

Customer: "Why haven't you released an upgrade?"

Us: "Is there a problem you've run into or a new feature you would like to see?"

Customer: "No. I just wondered why you aren't upgrading it."

Although we're always working on our products, we only release an upgrade if we really need to. In fact, with software I purchase, I often associate frequent upgrades with lots of problems. Fewer upgrades means it works really well right out of the chute.

I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on the 'gotta upgrade' situation as well.

Marc Tassin
Ilium Software
--------------------
[email protected]
+1 (734) 973-9388
---------------------
http://www.iliumsoft.com

And be sure check out our new blog! http://blog.iliumsoft.com/

[yildi]

... if the soft is not buggy. In fact, I find that having an update every two days is rather painful. You must frequently check the updates, install the new version, etc.
This definitely makes the customer come back to the web site of the soft and creates some sort of psychological dependency but it is not very good for doing the business for which we use the PDA :-)

On my side I would prefer the following scheme with an efficient mail averting system (Handandgo takes forever to inform me about the updates):

- Quick updates when a critical bug is found;
- Slower but better tought updates concerning the features (every 3-6 months, for example), even grouping several new features in the same update and resisting to release a new update with every small new feature ou interface change.

I would like to be informed by mail about each update any way, then I can choose if I go to the web site or not...

I have the impression that Ilium is quite a slow updater (my e-wallet has not been updated for some time if I am not wrong, neither List Pro, and they could both benefit from new features) and SBSH is a terribly quick updater (you must past half of your life in their forums when Amit begins an update vague :-) ). I love softs from both company but the optimum must be somewhere between (Amit has slowed a little bit the pace of the updates and I think this is nice, since he can take more time to think about intelligent new features).

Anyway, we are some form of PPC junkies and this is just a maniac trait which is difficult to handle for all software companies :)

[crimsonsky]

If there is an upgrade available for a program, I will probably load it, unless it addresses a problem that I don't have or adds features for a device I don't own. (Perfect example is the last update to Laridian's PocketBible for Smartphones. The last update just addressed issues with the Motorola Q and really offered nothing else new, so I skipped that update). Pocket Informant is another example - they offer fairly frequent updates, but since the application meets my needs perfectly as is, I haven't botheed with the last couple of updates.

It's easy to get caught up in the "gotta have the latest and greatest" syndrome, but more and more I have to judge whether or not an update or upgrade really addresses a real need that I have, so I'm finding that I am starting to NOT download new updates just for the sake of doing so. Unless it adds a compelling new feature or addresses a stability concern that affects me, I'm finding that I'm less likely to update.

A fine example of a peice of software that hasn't been updated in two years is Pocket e-Sword. But as it is it works wonderfully and while I don't know this for sure, I suspect that the developer hasn't udpated it because there has not been a need to. And I'm perfectly satisfied with it as it is. Oh sure, I check the website every few months just to make sure nothing has changed, but if the application is never updated again, it works well and I'll use it for as long as I have a device that can run it.

Don

[iant54]

Anyone know what happened to Two Peaks?
but they've been dormant for years

Not exactly dormant - they did sell Flex Wallet to WebIS earlier this year (or was it late last year?).

[Underwater Mike]

I just wanted to chime in with my two cents, since I haven't posted in a while. Unfortunately, I'm just going to echo what everyone else said! :oops: That is, as long as the software does what it's supposed to do, I don't expect an upgrade unless there are bugs to be fixed.

That said, it's a very competitive industry, and improved/added functionality is generally a good way to secure the franchise, as long as the added stuff is relevant (i.e., not just thrown in for the sake of including something, as is the case with a lot of bloated software).

Okay, back to work for me. 8)

[Marcel_Proust]

[quote="Ilium Software"]I think this is a really interesting topic because as developers we are regularly faced with the "When is the next upgrade?" question.

.........................

Although we're always working on our products, we only release an upgrade if we really need to. In fact, with software I purchase, I often associate frequent upgrades with lots of problems. Fewer upgrades means it works really well right out of the chute.

I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on the 'gotta upgrade' situation as well.

Marc Tassin
Ilium Software
--------------------

http://www.iliumsoft.com

Sorry Marc, but I want you guys to keep working on making your programs faster, leaner, sleeker, prettier, and more useful but not overburdening features. If a developer won't do that, I'll jump ship. And the history of a developer is a consideration when buying software.
Look at PocketInformant, the new update of PI looks amazing. It's faster, but has many new features. Yes, there are frequent updates, IF you join the beta program. So updates don't necessarily mean bugs unless you want to be a tester. Ditto for the new Pocket Diary by Spb. more features but faster, in beta.
Your company does do a good job with some of its product line. ewallet is stellar, is ahead of the competition with its ability to sync at card level, and sync to storage card, and do it flawlessly. That's what I look for.

[Ilium Software]

Great feedback. We definitely take these sorts of comments to heart! We really appreciate it.

[albc1974]

I'm not an upgrade junkie. I guess I'm more of a feature junkie, though. I like seeing regular updates, but I can see the point that it can also be equated to buggy software. If I'm evaluating new software, though, I usually like to see regular updates and changelogs, and a responsive forum. That doesn't necessarily keep me away from 1- or 2-year old software, but I'm more wary of it, and will constantly be looking for a replacement that has what seems to be active and responsive development. It gives me a little assurance that if there is a bug, or an OS change, the program will be fixed or updated as necessary and in a timely fashion.

If the application works with all the features that I want, then I won't necessarily upgrade to the latest version, especially if it is important software. Pocket Informant, like crimsonsky mentioned, is something that I'll skip a few updates, because it works great for me. For other software, especially when they are not quite up to the feature set that I'd like to see, or has an annoying bug, or a competing program has a great feature, I wait impatiently for updates. I don't usually jump ship, though, unless, the problem is really bad, or the other program is really compelling. List Pro, for instance, took a long while between updates, but I would like to have seen some things addressed sooner (some VGA quirks, fitaly keyboard issues - both fixed now as far as I can see - I admit I didn't report either of these issues). I didn't see any good alternatives to this program, and it otherwise worked great. SPB Imageer took a long time for an update as well. But it was a bit slow, and had some crashing bugs, that forced me to look elsewhere (but it works great and fast now though after the latest update - finally!). If either of these programs were from a developer that issued more frequent updates, the issues may have been addressed sooner (perhaps months instead of years), and I also get the feeling that the developer is listening. I do realize that as a developer's software line gets larger, they will not be able to spend as much time on a particular program, but it is still nice to see that certain items are being addressed or new features are planned. There have certainly been some programs that I have abandoned because there did not seem to be any movement on it.

[Hx4700]

Does anyone remember Star Tap by ThumbsUp??? That program had so many modules and functions I don't think I ever did find them all.
I have used the Explorer module since my first windows pda (iPaq 3600) (when was that - about 2001?) and continued on Jornada, Axim, and HP4700 until the WM5 upgrade when Tweak2k2 Brute Force wouldn't even enlarge the icons. It's Explorer is the closest I've found to the Desktop Explorer. I now use Total Commander for the same reason.
And I still use the StarTap Themes module today on WM5 2.01.
Ron...

[PPCRules]

... Oh sure, I check the website every few months just to make sure nothing has changed, ...
ChangeNotes.com.

I have a watch on 'www.e-sword.net/pocketpc/downloads.html'. Works great, albeit not very often, as you note.

[paschott]

I agree with most of the other posters here - I don't tend to upgrade unless there's a new feature I'm missing, a major bugfix, or the software no longer meets my needs. Games are a good example - sure there are updates to run better under WM5, but if the old version suffices, I have no reason to upgrade. I like PI2005 - it works. I have little reason to upgrade within the version most times. I wish I could say the same about FlexMail 2006 - it doesn't work the way I need it to and in order to fix that, I'd have to upgrade to FM2007. After my experience not getting a missing/broken feature resolved, I'm reluctant to upgrade and will look for alternatives.

Also - while I agree that quite a few programs are good as they are and don't need much updating, some value-added stuff would be nice. ListPro comes to mind - there's a user community for lists, but adding a new template or two once a month or every other month would be kind of a nice to have - keep us excited about using the product in that sense.
Same for PocketBible and even PocketInformant. There are so many new features in both of their latest versions (or just features in PI's case :) ) that it would be great having some sort of "Hey, look what I can do" type articles or posts in an easy to find place (not forums, except possibly for historical and commenting purposes).

In general, if a new version offers me something, I'll tend towards upgrading if the value is great enough. If not and the older version works, I'll keep on using it.

-Pete

[disconnected]

In general I only upgrade when there's a new feature I want or when I'm getting a new PPC (which doesn't seem to happen anymore......where are the new VGA PPCs??, but that's another subject). I do appreciate email notification when an upgrade is available. Seeing that the developer is still actively supporting a product is reassuring because it gives me confidence that when I do need an upgrade or support it will probably be there.

[Marcel_Proust]

... Oh sure, I check the website every few months just to make sure nothing has changed, ...
ChangeNotes.com.

I have a watch on 'www.e-sword.net/pocketpc/downloads.html'. Works great, albeit not very often, as you note.

I don't know if PocketSword is such a good example for this thread. I've just checked their site and apparently they haven't had an update for almost 2000 years, and some users feel the new version is very buggy and the first still the best.
(can't find it, but insert wink, tongue in cheek, couldn't resist, emoticon here.)

[Marcel_Proust]

[quote="albc1974"] List Pro, for instance, took a long while between updates, but I would like to have seen some things addressed sooner (some VGA quirks, fitaly keyboard issues - both fixed now as far as I can see - I admit I didn't report either of these issues). I didn't see any good alternatives to this program, and it otherwise worked great. [/quote

Yeah I didn't it in my earlier post, but I don't think ilium has done as good a job with ListPro as with eWallet. They need to add more grahics and icons to the programs, imho, and make it more visually friendly, as well as making those fixes you've mentioned earlier. That goes a long way for these type of prgrams. So for that program, I've moved on, although might be willing to come back.

[Gerard]

I still use Ilium's PhoneTone daily. Nice program, though it's not been supported for a couple or more years.

I managed to trick ThumbsUp!'s GigaPad into working on my WM2003SE e800, but had to give up on GigaBar... with great sadness. Just doesn't work on this machine.

Kenny Goers' FtpView is still in constant use. A favourite of mine since 2001.

I still use software from every year since 2000. So long as it works well, why toss it?

[Ilium Software]

there's a user community for lists, but adding a new template or two once a month or every other month would be kind of a nice to have - keep us excited about using the product in that sense.

I agree. I think that's a great way to add functionality without adding features just for the sake of adding features.

BTW, do you go here? http://iliumsoft.com/site/lp/lp_lists.php

We try to add new lists every week. Sometimes just one but often more.

[Ed@Brighthand]

I generally only load updated applications on my handhelds or smartphones when I have to. Often this is because updates seem to grow exponentially in size. Seem to me that when a new version has about 10% more features than its predecessor it's twice as big.

Also, I'm a strong believer in "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." New versions mean new features, and new features mean new bugs. Unless it's a new feature I really want, it's usually not worth the risk.

Also, the pressure to come out with frequent updates leads companies to include features of dubious worth. Anyone remember MS Word from 15 years ago? That was a great word processor and it fit on one floppy disk. Since then, Microsoft has kept shoveling in new features to the point where Word has become this gargantuan hulk of bloatware capable of doing everything from calculating the national debt to making acres of coleslaw.

That's not to say that all updates are unnecessary. I love it when a feature I really want is added to one of my favorite apps. And I understand that new Windows Mobile versions almost always require updating apps.

Just please don't add a turnip twaddler to your app for no better reason than because someone says it has been too long since the last update.

[Damion Chaplin]

Seem to me that when a new version has about 10% more features than its predecessor it's twice as big.

You hit the nail on the head there, Ed. It used to be that the very first program I loaded on a new PPC was Snoopsoft's Dashboard. Unfortunately, with every new version, the program gets larger and more complex, finally overwhelming my poor 200mhz machine.

So I miss it, not because it was orphaned, but because so many bells and whistles were added to increase its perceived value that it was no longer the sleek program it used to be and I had to remove it. Too bad too as they give you free lifetime upgrades... :?

[Gerard]

I'm glad you mentioned Dashboard. I too was a very loyal user of Dashboard, from the very first version which I paid for happily, back in 2000. In 2001 I started beta testing for Snoopsoft, and more in-depth testing in 2002. Often the updates were full of bugfixes and it was a delight to have an already great plugin do its job so much better. The add-ons such as Tapani J Otala's 'Freespace' were great too!

But in the middle of 2004 I started seeing my device bogging down, not responding at times. Uninstalling other things didn't help. Uninstalling Dashboard did. With regret, I wrote to Chris saying I'd no longer be able to test Dashboard. A shame, as I seemed to have a lot of luck spotting bugs... but several tries since failed to show improvement, and I just use my PPC far too much for work to afford having it go south all the time.

On the subject of bloated word processors, it's very nice seeing that SoftMaker is managing not to go this route with Textmaker. The program may get a bit larger now and then, but it's still less than a 10MB folder on my SD card... barely. It's also much faster than it was initially, taking a few seconds to load from a card compared to almost a minute with the earliest version. On my PC Textmaker is an absolute delight to work with, rendering complex layout and other word processing chores easily. It's fun to use. Word never was for me, but then I only started using it in 2002, when it was already a battleship. Textmaker does everything a word processor needs to do and more, without the bloat even on a PC where one might expect it to appear.

[fireflyrsmr]

I am currently struggling with upgrades. I'm still on a windows 2000 machine and I'm still on a 2002 pocket pc. I don't see a need to upgrade either if they would just keep working. The problem is that I get the security deals pushed from Microsoft that I feel have to be done. Then nearly always something breaks in the process. I just switched to Firefox because IE on the desktop kept crashing after the last big upgrade push.

It also happens with the pocket pc as I'm notified of a free upgrade (spb weather is my latest headache) and then it's busted. Literally, the help desk sent me a letter that the fix was to roll back to 1.5 from the 1.6 they had offered. I'm guessing that the march of "progress" causes the stuff to start crashing when the baseline becomes that old. I understand the pocket pc developers are a lot of mom and pop operations but in relation to this thread ...... a lot of us have gotten to a place where the technology is doing what we want. We just want it to keep working. I work within a multinational engineering/manufacturing company. Even though the groups I interact with are highly technical the handhelds I see are either old palms or old pocket pcs. this forum is way off the charts with uber geeks spending money on a passion that is not representative of the population. I know it doesn't sound good from a business case perspective but that is the reality of the situation I see around me.

Bottomline - if you want me to buy from you more than once make sure the required enviornments are well tested and spelled out. If the upgrade doesn't work with the old stuff - let me know please.

[BugDude10]

I, too, will continue to use an app until it doesn't work anymore or until I find something better: if it continues to do the job without any updates, why worry about it? At the same time, I will periodically go looking to see if there are any updates to the programs on my device, and will usually update whenever I find a newer version; I wouldn't want to miss the last free update I'm entitled to, if the developer releases a new version that I have to pay for, and stops making the older versions available somewhere online.

And I, too, am curious about Two Peaks. I think I've seen reference to Mel working at Microsoft now, so that would explain why there hasn't been a flurry of new releases; but is the company just dead now, with no hope of new releases or updates?

[WyattEarp]

I must also agree with many here. I don't put a time table on software as I will use it as long as it works on my device. I usually stop using a piece of software when it can not run on a newer OS I upgraded to, the updates offered have made the software unuseable (usually just bloated with functions I don't need or has increased to an unreasonable size) or find a truely superior replacement.

I do like having the latest software updates but will skip ones that offer no added value or bug fixes for my device. I always read the history revisions and check the forums to see what's going on before installing updates. Hence my relucantance to update to WM5 until HP offered a fix.

What does bother me is seeing software that is never updated to actually perform better. There is almost always room to make software sleeker looking, operate more efficiently, and perform faster. After that and there is no more room for real improvement (not including adding new features which isn't always an improvement) then maybe just updating the look of the software to keep it from at least looking old.

[mmidgley]

I usually use a program for as long as possible. I do give up on programs when they no longer work. For me risk of software failure seems to be highest when upgrading hardware, especially since I cannot financially afford a new PPC as often as some of you, so the jump is usually bigger (new OS, etc).

I try to keep my installed software updated as developers update, even if there isn't a problem or new features I really need because I like to support the developer and also I feel it leaves me with more hope for it to work on the latest hardware and OS versions (in the event I am lucky enough to upgrade).

I am a developer by profession, but not for handhelds. Regardless, I feel a bit of guilt as a developer who has not kept software updated--my VNC port is old (even though I finally have a WM5 device I still haven't made it WM5 friendly). At least I do it as a hobby only, and not for my financial being (so my guilt is not overwhelming :) )

m.

Apple Newton 120, Newton 2100, iPAQ 3650, iPAQ 5555, i-mate JAMin

[ctmagnus]

If it's a program I use fairly often, I try to keep it up to date. But something like Spb Freecell, while I use it sometimes daily depending on my workload, tends to not get updated as often. The fact that Spb hasn't updated it in a while just helps me out there. ;)

[Daniel Webb]

I'm really pleased with the general consensus here that good software doesn't have a shelf life.

Good software reaches a sweet spot between size/speed and functionality and then has the good sense to recognise this and stop growing.

[Marcel_Proust]

I'm really pleased with the general consensus here that good software doesn't have a shelf life.

Good software reaches a sweet spot between size/speed and functionality and then has the good sense to recognise this and stop growing.

This consensus is odd as it doesn't reflect market reality or general trends in technology.
Look at the top sellers, this must reflect something.
What year was your car designed? Your TV? I bet at the time you got it you thought it had hit the perfect sweet spot.
Wasn't the first Palm perfect in its own way?
Saying all that, you do have a point. I hate bloatware. Someone mentioned the new Textmaker update is faster. I hope so. Although initially excited by the program, I've found it so slow, even on fast machines, to make it unusable. There are many many functions, but high memory consumption, frequenty crashes, and a frustrating key lag time, make all those feature unusable. So let's hope they didn't add more features and make it slower. Sometimes, a diet is good progress too.

[fireflyrsmr]

http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/

Note his comment on why he is forced to buy a new computer. I feel like we are in a vehilce that some of us would just as soon get out of. Maybe that is one appeal of Linux? Don't know - haven't checked it out but I might go there soon because this upgrade to break it path doesn't make sense.

I think Proust is missing something. With pocketpc software I think there is a point of diminishing returns. that is the sweet spot. With other software (high end engineering cad/cae for instance) there aren't near fast enough for some tasks so the development must continue.

I too use ewallet - love it - use it every day. It works, no delay, keeps all my info. I don't see a reason to change.

[Gerard]

I've tested every Textmaker version for PPC, in RAM and in SD memory, and a couple of versions in CF cards. The current beta of TM2006 (rev 452) opens in 12 seconds from SD on my WM2003SE Toshiba e800. That's by far the slowest thing it does. Keyboard lag via my Belkin IrDA keyboard is slight, about one to two characters at 60WPM. Via a soft input panel I see no lag. There is still the odd bug, of course. I've not seen this version spontaneously close in all my testing so far, which was the most obnoxious thing TM ever did to me - though it ALWAYS offered to restore the doc on the next opening, and by this method rarely cost me any significant amount of writing. The worst I've seen with this version is that page re-flow needs to be toggled to work on document opening, to get it to work. That takes two seconds.

Pocket Word is often slower, and it's built in.

I don't drive.... but my Tom Ritchey mountain bike frame was built in 1983. I saved for its purchase for many months, as it was the best of its kind and seemed a worthy investment. In 1992 I crashed it into the back of an unexpectedly stopping car (two guys having a bitter argument, the driver suddenly slamming the brakes in the middle of a block) and snapped the front end off... so that was replaced with a nice new front end by a local builder of first class. He slihtly quickened the steering and raised the b.b., per my preference. I still smile every time I get onto that bike, as it's a joy to ride. I have no newer bicycle.

My TV is a 5-yea-old Toshiba 14". Good enough. It'll likely last as long as my previous TV, which was a 1986 Sony Trinitron. I don't ask much from a TV, and though one of my brothers has a big screened thing, I still don't understand why one would want such nonsense.

My notebook is a crappy notebook made in 2000. It was a nightmare until this year, when I installed a very stripped-down version of XP Pro on the thing, and since then it's been practically error free. I'll use it until it drops dead.

There's a thing called common sense. Perhaps forum members here have more of it than the average American Idol or Survivor fan? I dunno, just guessing. I know the difference between necessity and desire.

[paschott]

there's a user community for lists, but adding a new template or two once a month or every other month would be kind of a nice to have - keep us excited about using the product in that sense.

I agree. I think that's a great way to add functionality without adding features just for the sake of adding features.

BTW, do you go here? http://iliumsoft.com/site/lp/lp_lists.php

We try to add new lists every week. Sometimes just one but often more.

I have looked there, but it's been a while. I'll have to put it on my watch list to see what's added regularly. I need to do some creating and add to the posts, but I'm not completely satisfied with my current templates. They work well for desktop, but not so well for PPC/WM devices (just layout issues for the most part).

-Pete

[Pete Wilson]

I don't think good software dies - and since none of the new Pocket PC's appeal, my 5450 keeps me going fine.

Though, my car is a 1991 (Acura NSX), my TV is almost 10 years old (35" RCA) and my favorite PDA is the Newton MP 2100 - the software on it is ancient!

I think PC software needs updating to keep up with Windows but there are some concepts that I am sad dropped away - ThinkTank, MemoryMate, Lotus Agenda. Strange, I can't think of an early Windows program I miss, except maybe SmartPad.

[rdmeyers]

As a developer I thought I would chime in on this topic. There is nothing I like more than writing code, but there is nothing I dispise more than writing to code to work around bugs that M$ introduces with their latest upgrade/patch/etc.

Case in point, WM5 broke so many things that worked well in 2002/2003 that I cannot even rewrite the program to have the same functionality that the current version has. I have even thrown code over to M$ developers to try and fix, and that has resulted in them scratching their collective heads.

What is the point in updating a program that works just fine, when the best you can do is introduce a new version that doesn't work as well!

Sometimes the problem is the operating system! It seems even the hardware vendors are slowly walking away from this one.

[Rob Alexander]

I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on the 'gotta upgrade' situation as well.

Marc Tassin
Ilium Software


Marc, eWallet and ListPro were two of the first applications I bought for my earliest WinCE devices and they are still the first things I put on my PPC when I rebuild it or buy a new one. But here's the thing. They already do so much more than I need that I just feel no pressure about upgrades.

Whenever I have upgraded, it's been because I've upgraded to a new WM version and need to be sure it's supported, or I read about it here and just wondered if there's anything new you've thought of that I might like. I've never that I can recall come along looking for an upgrade because the software is already that good. (I know that's not always good for you.)

The last time I upgraded one of your apps was moving from ListPro 3.x to 4.x about 6 months ago or so and I did it only because PPC Thoughts said you were having a one-day sale for $9.99 (or whatever). That was cheaper than the usual upgrade so I just went ahead and did it. It's not that your regular upgrade price is too high, it's just that the sale nudged me to action because I always figured I'd upgrade it eventually anyway. If that hadn't happened, I'd still be using 3.x and would still be happy.

So, like lots of others here, it's all about function to me. If a piece of software is missing a specific feature I need, then I hover around the developer's forums, check for upgrades, etc. But when I'm happy with something, I just keep using it and never think about upgrades at all. If you guys went out of business (heaven forbid), then I'd just keep using your applications until I finally moved to a device that wouldn't run them.

[Rob Alexander]

I also wanted to add that, to me, one of the greatest offenses a developer can commit is to nag me to upgrade. I use Pocket Weather and a few months ago it started showing me this box right across the face of the weather icons saying an upgrade to version x.x.x was available. Now if it came up once and disappeared, then I wouldn't care, but it bugged me every day.

I didn't want to upgrade as the program did exactly what I wanted. And I hate upgrading today screen plugins because (unlike some others here) I still use Dashboard and it's a pain to turn off the application, reboot, unload it, reboot, load it, reboot, etc. But I finally gave in and upgraded the thing and what happens? It STILL gives me a message every daythat there's an upgrade available to version x.x.x even though that's the exact version I'm using.

What's worse, this new version is unreliable and doesn't show the weather half the time, or it shows the weather, but not the icons. I had a perfectly good application that did just what I wanted and now I've been forced to screw it all up just because the developer wanted to do me a favor. (Or so I assume since the upgrade was free.) Thanks a lot! Now I'm in the market for a new weather app if I ever find the time to search one out.

[Marcel_Proust]

I've tested every Textmaker version for PPC, in RAM and in SD memory, and a couple of versions in CF cards. The current beta of TM2006 (rev 452) opens in 12 seconds from SD on my WM2003SE Toshiba e800. That's by far the slowest thing it does. Keyboard lag via my Belkin IrDA keyboard is slight, about one to two characters at 60WPM. Via a soft input panel I see no lag. There is still the odd bug, of course. I've not seen this version spontaneously close in all my testing so far, which was the most obnoxious thing TM ever did to me - though it ALWAYS offered to restore the doc on the next opening, and by this method rarely cost me any significant amount of writing. The worst I've seen with this version is that page re-flow needs to be toggled to work on document opening, to get it to work. That takes two seconds.

Pocket Word is often slower, and it's built in.


Well Textmaker is a program where I do wish they've made it more stable rather than add more features. It's probably one of the most disappointing programs that I've purchased. I had high hopes but found it too buggy to ever use reliably. I too have had the same problems. The spontaneous closing problem, is unacceptable. You will get the last autosave recovered, so you better autosafe frequently, like every 5 minutes, and then get tht piece of work lost - which if you're editing a document, is hard to quite redo. I found that quite frustrating. As well, I find the keystroke lag just saps something out of the experience, and this is with a bluetooth keyboard.
So onyour advice, that the new beta isn't just more bloatware but adds speed and stability, I'll try the newest version, and hope they've fixed these bugs. I've noticed on the site we'll have to pay for the upgrade, and quite a bit as well, for what imho would be a bug fix that never came. And support from them was never great...."it'll be fixed in the next version."
If a high speed game that stretches the graphics boundaries of a machine crashes once in a while, I can be ok with that. But for a serious app like Textmaker, I think developers have to make sure it's stable in the final release before adding features.
I'm surprised, (or at least wishing), that nobody has ever made a nice lean word processor for ppc. One that has more features than the built in one, but doesn't try to be full feature and is then unreliable like Textmaker.

[Twain]

No one has commented on the fact that the sheer number of device types, screen sizes, etc., makes supporting Pocket PC and Smartphone software a daunting challenge.

Anyone know what happened to Two Peaks? They used to make the some of the best PPC software out there, but they've been dormant for years.....no upgrades, no Windows Mobile 5 compatability, no resposne to tech support requests.....yet their website's still running and still accepting orders.

I think that the original owner of Two Peaks, Mel Sampat, now works for Microsoft somewhere in their Mobile Devices division. I kept waiting for over two years for Two Peaks to upgrade their Trip Tracker software. As a business traveller, it was the best software out there and I used it all the time. They had numerous requests for features, fixes, etc., all to no avail. While the company sold off their wallet software, FlexWallet, Two Peaks kept the rest of the applications, including Trip Tracker.

Mel used to be a frequent poster on this site, and I'm wondering if he can comment, as a developer, on the difficulty of maintaining applications in the current multi-device type environment? This difficulty may have something to do with why software applications appear to be "abandoned".

Twain

[Steve Jordan]

For me, trying to keep track of the latest upgrades is more of a pain than it is worth. Once you've got something that works, stick with it. I'm still running a WM3 PPC, and like my Win2K PC, if it's doing the job, it's cool. The software is (mostly) still doing what I want... at the moment, there is only one app I'm unhappy with, but I suspect the tired unreplaceable battery in my PPC is really the culprit of those problems. Everything else is doing its job. Why replace 'em?

Since my house has got 2 PCs, 1 laptop, 2 Macs, 1PPC, and they're all older than 3 years (the laptop and PC's older than 5), I don't know what Adams' problem is with his... he said he checked for viruses and spyware, but a badly needed defrag can turn a computer into a brick inside of 2 years, too.

[rorithoughts]

this 2 very useful pieces of software were of my favorites, now I doubt at installing 0X

[brianchris]

I think that the original owner of Two Peaks, Mel Sampat, now works for Microsoft somewhere in their Mobile Devices division. I kept waiting for over two years for Two Peaks to upgrade their Trip Tracker software. As a business traveller, it was the best software out there and I used it all the time. They had numerous requests for features, fixes, etc., all to no avail. While the company sold off their wallet software, FlexWallet, Two Peaks kept the rest of the applications, including Trip Tracker.

Thanks for replying Twain!!

I couldn't agree more, with you and others, that Trip Tracker was the best travel itineray manager availible, BY FAR. WorldMate Pro, while offering many other useful features, has poor itinery management capabilities. I've found Trip Tracker to be completely incompatible with Windows Mobile 5......has anyone found a way to make it work?

Twain, what do you currently use for Itinerary management now?

WebIS or Ilium, or some other software manufacturer should consider purchasing Trip Tracker as it seems to have a loyal following, AND there's nothing else like it on the market (does one thing, itinerary management, and does it well).

[ctmagnus]

WebIS or Ilium, or some other software manufacturer should consider purchasing Trip Tracker as it seems to have a loyal following, AND there's nothing else like it on the market (does one thing, itinerary management, and does it well).

I agree. I've tried others but none of them have even compared to Trip Tracker in my opinion.