Dell, What's the Story?

[Darius Wey]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.digitimes.com/systems/a20060801PR209.html' target='_blank'>http://www.digitimes.com/systems/a2...60801PR209.html</a><br /><br /></div><i>"Dell halted R&amp;D development of PDA products since the middle of 2005, when Dell's Taiwan Design Center (TDC) completed development of the PC vendor's last Axim-series device, which was manufactured by High Tech Computer (HTC), according to market sources. According to the sources, Dell's TDC switched all PDA-related R&amp;D resources to the notebook segment in the middle of 2005, following the company's plan of reducing the number of its R&amp;D staff at its handheld device division at the end of 2004. Dell has not announced new PDAs for almost a year and PDA products that it currently offers are old models that were introduced in 2004, indicated the sources. In addition, the PC vendor has not shown any moves in the PDA phone and GPS-enable PDA segments, the sources noted."</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/wey-20060419-Dell.jpg" /><br /><br />In April, there was a <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=48127">rumour</a> that Dell ceased PDA R&amp;D. Well, <a href="http://www.digitimes.com/systems/a20060801PR209.html">more rumours from multiple sources</a> (as posted by DigiTimes today) is now making this bit of news seemingly more factual.<br /><br />We haven't seen much from Dell lately. The company pleased X51/X51v users recently with a ROM update, but X50/X50v users running the poorly implemented Windows Mobile 5.0 were still left out to dry. As for the device itself, while being a top-notch PDA, the X51/X51v is still regarded as a dot upgrade. We haven't seen anything revolutionary in the past year or so, and with all the news floating around these past few months, it looks to stay that way for an indefinite period. Come on, Dell - be upfront and tell us, your valued customers, what's going on... :roll:

[Clinton Fitch]

I couldn't agree more.

I keep hearing rumors about Dell releasing a convered device but have yet to see anything that backed that up as fact.

Personally I think it would be a shame for Dell to completely drop out of the market. I like the devices and have been quite pleased with them.

[r@dimus]

I wonder if the reduction in R&amp;D is due more to the fact that pace of development in the PPC segment has greatly slowed rather than anything else. Perhaps Dell has been relatively silent on this point for just that reason. Maybe they are no less committed to the Axim, but with the reduction in the rate of progress they think it would be prudent to redirect resources to other projects for a time.

Just some thoughts.

[x51vuser]

Sony did exactly the same to CLIE PDAs - no support announcement
in just two months after new PDA model release.
I would never buy anything from Sony or DELL.
AFAIK DELL Axim users prepare now class action lawsuit.

[drowe]

Sony did exactly the same to CLIE PDAs - no support announcement
in just two months after new PDA model release.
I would never buy anything from Sony or DELL.
AFAIK DELL Axim users prepare now class action lawsuit.

Suing for making business decisions you don't like????

[signothefish]

Come on, Dell - be upfront and tell us, your valued customers, what's going on... :roll:

Dell doesn't have "valued" customers (emphasis added in above quote). You are nothing but a past $ figure to them. And by $, I mean they made very little off a lot of people. With coupon codes and deals forums all over the place, many people got the Axims at rock-bottom prices. If anyone paid more than $300 for an Axim, they overpaid. Dell is simply in it for the money, and they have no interest in communicating their intention to kill a product, no more than they have an interest in you as a valued customer. One thing we can all agree on... the stand-alone PDA is dead in the US market. Sad, really. :(

[andreabarbera]

I don't understand why people are upset with Dell for killing a product or productcategory (non-connected pda's) that clearly seems to be going rapidly down in salesfigures anyway. Dell is killing it because people aren't buying them anymore, it's just as simple as that.

One could argue why they don't step into the phone/pda-combo market, but I can understand why they don't do that because those are sold mainly through completly different channels (network-operators ecc.) than the usual pda's they have been selling so far.

[crispeto]

I think it comes down to this whole cell phone scam. Why can't I just buy my dream device for around $300 and use it with any carrier I want without any contract or at the most, a 1 year contract. Unlocked phones are waaaaay over priced just to get people to buy into this whole contract scam. There is no way to justify an unlocked pocketpc phone for $800 when you can buy a more powerful Axim for less than $300. I just think that the phones and the carriers should be separate. Dell would probably create a converged device then. But why should they when you will have to belong to a specific carrier for 2 years just to be able to afford it and use it.

[ADBrown]

With coupon codes and deals forums all over the place, many people got the Axims at rock-bottom prices. If anyone paid more than $300 for an Axim, they overpaid.

$300 is still profitable for Dell. If it weren't, they wouldn't be selling that cheap.

Honestly, I think everyone's getting paranoid. "Dell Axim X51v goes unreplaced for 300th straight day--fall of western civilization imminent"? A slower replacement cycle would be better for them, because the longer a unit is in service the more profitable it is, having paid back the R&amp;D cost.

If they really are ditching the market, I'll yell at them louder than anybody, but until there's some kind of solid evidence of that, I'm not going to sweat too much.

[azhiker]

Well, my first PDA was from Toshiba and they went out of the PDA business, so I switched to Axim from Dell and now they are getting out of the PDA business. It looks no better from HP.

I am far more happy with my X50V from DELL but now feel that when this dies it will be an end of an era. None of the MS mobile phones seem to have anything close to the power and ability of the X50V. So it seems there may be less alternatives.

I am considering a small tablet pc instead.

[drowe]

Honestly, I think everyone's getting paranoid. "Dell Axim X51v goes unreplaced for 300th straight day--fall of western civilization imminent"?

I agree! There is so much hand wringing and gnashing of teeth that you would think the PPC police were coming to take their Axim's away!! As much as I love new toys, if Dell decides today to discontinue all sales and support for Axim's it wouldn't affect me. My x50v is out of warranty so I wouldn't ask them for support. It does what I need it to do and runs just as well as it did when I decided to buy it and when I decide to replace it, I'll do my research then and pick the best value I can find.

[TheOfficeMaven]

... If anyone paid more than $300 for an Axim, they overpaid. ...

Oh wise one please tell me where I can get a ("legit") Axim x51v for $300 (or less) today and I'll buy it! 8O

[signothefish]

Well you can count on stand-alone PDAs being on eBay for several years. Maybe by that time, you can get hold of an affordable ultraportable. Right now, if my e800 breaks, I just send in $130 to get a replacement. That will go on until Toshiba runs out of them, and eBay will be my backup.

[x51vuser]

Sony did exactly the same to CLIE PDAs - no support announcement
in just two months after new PDA model release.
I would never buy anything from Sony or DELL.
AFAIK DELL Axim users prepare now class action lawsuit.

Suing for making business decisions you don't like????

Rather for cheating clients.
Are people from DELL authorized to use this forum ?

[signothefish]

... If anyone paid more than $300 for an Axim, they overpaid. ...

Oh wise one please tell me where I can get a ("legit") Axim x51v for $300 (or less) today and I'll buy it! 8O

$224:
http://www.fatwallet.com/t/74/604310
http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=32912&amp;t=159720
http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=32912&amp;t=235355

$256:
http://www.fatwallet.com/t/18/608147

$280:
http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=32912&amp;t=168509

Of course, all these deals are dead now.

[Gerard]

How would their quitting PDA development be cheating clients? In 6+ years using PPCs, I have yet to see one company promise indefinite development of PDAs. I've yet to see any promises, beyond basic warranty coverage. My first PPC was a Casio, so was my second. Casio stopped supplying English-language PPCs, so I got a Compaq-branded iPAQ. Then an Axim. Then a Toshiba, long after the e800 went out of production. I'm very happy with this device and couldn't care less that it's no longer made... so long as I can still buy one new on eBay. It'll tide me over until a) a better PPC is made (I'm having doubts) or b) the UMPC matures enough to be tempting. I'm beginning to lean towards the latter.

Would I yell at Casio for quitting? Of course not. That's their stupid decision, leaving just when they could have made major inroads. Do I care if Dell pulls out? Nah. The x50 type devices don't interest me.

[x51vuser]

How would their quitting PDA development be cheating clients?

To get some grip you should fly for example A380 when Airbus cuts off support.

[ADBrown]

... If anyone paid more than $300 for an Axim, they overpaid. ...

Oh wise one please tell me where I can get a ("legit") Axim x51v for $300 (or less) today and I'll buy it! 8O

Keep an eye on the online deal sites. FatWallet.com has email alerts you can configure, where it will shoot you an email whenever there's a hot deal that includes the word "Axim" or the like. These deals usually come around every 2-3 weeks or so.

[MBurch]

I went down with Casio - the E100 was the hottest device ever, and then they got out of the PPC market with their purple device that ran WM2003.

I went down with Toshiba - still using my e405. Still mad that they quit the market with such a hot design and form factor!

Dell was on my "possible replacement" list if my Toshi ever gives up its life. But not any more. Believe it or not, I think the Palm TX looks inviting these days!
8O

iPaq anyone?

[Paragon]

Dell, is, was, maybe still, maybe no longer, one of the best things to happen to the PPC market. When they came out with the X5 they shattered price levels, while providing a full featured device that out performed many devices at the time. They continued to provide excellent products at very reasonable prices. I still have a couple of Axims that are used by family and friends. Several times over the years I have had to use their customer support which was superb. Each time I had a replacement device on my desk the next day.

I'm happy with what Dell has provided me for the money I have invested in their product. They owe me nothing. If they wish to leave the market because it is not profitable enough for them, they have that right.

Dave

[Paragon]

How would their quitting PDA development be cheating clients?

To get some grip you should fly for example A380 when Airbus cuts off support.

I'd be curious to know.....how long do you think the law should state that a company must continue making a product after YOU buy it, in order to provide support? And what products should be included in this list? Airbus, GM, Dell, Fruit of the Loom? Obviously Airbus and the like need to provide support down the road, but where is the line to be drawn? Is it right to put a 200-300 gadget in thet same category as a multi-million dollar aircraft? ;)........AND who has said that Dell is not going to provide support for the Axim line IF they device not to continue?

Dave

[TheOfficeMaven]

signothefish &amp; ADBrown,

Too bad that there's no deals like that right now... However, I do appreciate the info on where to find them. I'll keep an eye out on those sites (and sign up for an Axim deal alert on FatWallet.com).

Thanks!

[x51vuser]

How would their quitting PDA development be cheating clients?

To get some grip you should fly for example A380 when Airbus cuts off support.

I'd be curious to know.....how long do you think the law should state that a company must continue making a product after YOU buy it, in order to provide support? And what products should be included in this list? Airbus, GM, Dell, Fruit of the Loom? Obviously Airbus and the like need to provide support down the road, but where is the line to be drawn? Is it right to put a 200-300 gadget in thet same category as a multi-million dollar aircraft? ;)........AND who has said that Dell is not going to provide support for the Axim line IF they device not to continue?

Dave

At least until all units disappear from the retail stores - which should be easy to figure out if DELL knew how to keep track of serial numbers.
With Sony and with DELL we had a situation that products were in retail when support dropped with no warning to clients.
Let's say hospital bought some Axims for patient care system.... and
human life depends on that gadget ..... is 200-300 gadget worth now the same as multi million aircraft ?
FMCG do not count of course.

[Paragon]

Let's say hospital bought some Axims for patient care system.... and
human life depends on that gadget ..... is 200-300 gadget worth now the same as multi million aircraft ?

Dude, you're stretching.....a lot. :) I'm not sure I can see how any lives could depend on an Axim. They may be used to handle some information about patients, but life threatening......I can't imagine a conversation like this ever arising......" I'm afaid I have some bad news for you, Mr. Smith, my Axim died, I don't think you will make it through the day. :)

AND, as I said before, who said Dell is not going to continue support if they should decide to leave the market?

[foldedspace]

Must be the new Dell tablet

[jamesbe2759]

"Dell halted R&amp;D development of PDA products since the middle of 2005, when Dell's Taiwan Design Center (TDC) completed development of the PC vendor's last Axim-series device, which was manufactured by High Tech Computer (HTC), according to market sources. According to the sources, Dell's TDC switched all PDA-related R&amp;D resources to the notebook segment in the middle of 2005, following the company's plan of reducing the number of its R&amp;D staff at its handheld device division at the end of 2004. Dell has not announced new PDAs for almost a year and PDA products that it currently offers are old models that were introduced in 2004, indicated the sources. In addition, the PC vendor has not shown any moves in the PDA phone and GPS-enable PDA segments, the sources noted."

http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/wey-20060419-Dell.jpg


In April, there was a rumour (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=48127) that Dell ceased PDA R&amp;D. Well, more rumours from multiple sources (http://www.digitimes.com/systems/a20060801PR209.html) (as posted by DigiTimes today) is now making this bit of news seemingly more factual.

We haven't seen much from Dell lately. The company pleased X51/X51v users recently with a ROM update, but X50/X50v users running the poorly implemented Windows Mobile 5.0 were still left out to dry. As for the device itself, while being a top-notch PDA, the X51/X51v is still regarded as a dot upgrade. We haven't seen anything revolutionary in the past year or so, and with all the news floating around these past few months, it looks to stay that way for an indefinite period. Come on, Dell - be upfront and tell us, your valued customers, what's going on... :roll:

I was one of the unfortunate owners of a Axim X50v who tried the Dell ROM 5.0 upgrade and experienced nothing but problems. I finally downgraded back to the 2003 ROM again so I could use my PPC again. I then bought the X51v with 5.0 already installed and haven't had any problems.
Over the years I've owned almost all of HP PPC's and others but I've never had a BETTER PPC than the Axim X51v. It may be 2 years old, as you pointed out above, but nobody else has manufactured a unit yet to compare with the X51v. It may cost a little more but high end users get their money's worth. :wink: MHO.

[Willmonwah]

It may be 2 years old, as you pointed out above, but nobody else has manufactured a unit yet to compare with the X51v. It may cost a little more but high end users get their money's worth. :wink: MHO.

Check out these VGA alternatives (Asus, Acer, etc) here (http://www.firstloox.org/VGAppc.htm). As far as VGA resolution PDAs go, they seemed to be a passing trend that become my killer feature (except I haven't upgraded due to their price).

I think it's interesting that the transition from the original brick-like X5 to the sleek X3 and beyond seems to correlate with the in-house design and HTC manufacturing.

[juni]

I never got around to getting a Dell, although it was on the list for next device. I guess that'll never happen now.

The FS devices are starting to look interesting again (after being burned once by the very unstable 600).

I guess I'll wait around and see what comes out. The newly released rom upgrade for the hx4700 seems to have breathed new life into the device. :)

[x51vuser]

Let's say hospital bought some Axims for patient care system.... and
human life depends on that gadget ..... is 200-300 gadget worth now the same as multi million aircraft ?

Dude, you're stretching.....a lot. :) I'm not sure I can see how any lives could depend on an Axim. They may be used to handle some information about patients, but life threatening......I can't imagine a conversation like this ever arising......" I'm afaid I have some bad news for you, Mr. Smith, my Axim died, I don't think you will make it through the day. :)

AND, as I said before, who said Dell is not going to continue support if they should decide to leave the market?

Dude, read initial article, read community forums, there is already
less support.
Plus try to develop some imagination. What if your dad was Mr. Smith ?
Still funny cause you never liked him ?

[x51vuser]

It may be 2 years old, as you pointed out above, but nobody else has manufactured a unit yet to compare with the X51v. It may cost a little more but high end users get their money's worth. :wink: MHO.

Check out these VGA alternatives (Asus, Acer, etc) here (http://www.firstloox.org/VGAppc.htm). As far as VGA resolution PDAs go, they seemed to be a passing trend that become my killer feature (except I haven't upgraded due to their price).

I think it's interesting that the transition from the original brick-like X5 to the sleek X3 and beyond seems to correlate with the in-house design and HTC manufacturing.

check out these on your Asus:
http://www.imgtec.com/downloads/DocumentDownloads/Demos/Index.asp

[Nurhisham Hussein]

One could argue why they don't step into the phone/pda-combo market, but I can understand why they don't do that because those are sold mainly through completly different channels (network-operators ecc.) than the usual pda's they have been selling so far.

While I largely agree with (it's their product), I have to say that the situation you describe may be the norm in the States, but not in Asia - where Dell is just as popular.

[x51vuser]

One could argue why they don't step into the phone/pda-combo market, but I can understand why they don't do that because those are sold mainly through completly different channels (network-operators ecc.) than the usual pda's they have been selling so far.

While I largely agree with (it's their product), I have to say that the situation you describe may be the norm in the States, but not in Asia - where Dell is just as popular.

It is the issue of competence not popularity.

[PPCRules]

... I've never had a BETTER PPC than the Axim X51v. It may be 2 years old, as you pointed out above, ...
Please, guys. Less emotions and more careful thought.

The X51v is NOT 2 years old. It had been less than 1 year, released September 20, 2005. It was the first non-phone WM5 device anyone released, so you're probably thinking of the timing of the WM5 release by Microsoft, which was earlier last year, but it was a long time after that when the X51v was released.

Secondly, Dell just just got this device working in the past month, with the A12 ROM release.
Two things there: 1) I'm glad they didn't rush another device out before they fixed the previous one, as this would have distracted from fixing the X51v problems, and 2) it shows their PDA development/support efforts were active as recently as a month ago. There was a long time I was concerned that they would never fix things. As someone noted, the long time lag may shows there are less people working in PDA development, but the continuing work shows support hasn't stopped.

And I agree that, by necessity, it is all about making money, at least in the overall picture.

Dell first got into PGAs so they could get corporate accounts (package deals) without having to supply iPaqs (from the newly combined HP/Compaq competitor). If that imputus still exists, there will be a refreshed device when the market demands it. If not, there will probably be no more Dell devices. I don't think there has been a need to package phones in the same corporate contract with the PCs and printers, so the probability of a combo device from Dell seems slim.

[Paragon]

Dell first got into PGAs so they could get corporate accounts (package deals) without having to supply iPaqs (from the newly combined HP/Compaq competitor). If that imputus still exists, there will be a refreshed device when the market demands it. If not, there will probably be no more Dell devices. I don't think there has been a need to package phones in the same corporate contract with the PCs and printers, so the probability of a combo device from Dell seems slim.

Excellent point. It really does put Dell's position in the mobile market in proper perspective.

Dave

[PPCRules]

Dell first got into PGAs ...
I of course meant 'PDAs'. I have not idea when they started sponsoring golf tournaments.

[MPSmith]

...I have not idea when...

You type in the same ham-fisted manner as I do!!! :lol:

[TimFountain]

How would their quitting PDA development be cheating clients?

To get some grip you should fly for example A380 when Airbus cuts off support.

Come on, there is no comparison, you are being argumentative for the sake of it. You need to realize Dell is a company, who don't know or care about you, and whose aim in life is to make a profit. Why don't you ask Ford why they aren't still making the Pinto, or why Boeing rolled the last 757 off the line a while ago, or why Dell no longer make the Lattitude CPi line of notebooks? Products come and go, customer/consumer buying habits change, markets change. The era of the stand-alond PDA is ending, converged devices are what people are demanding (including me - HTC Wizard currently in my pocket). If you like your v.51, great, stick with it. If not look around, there are other choices, and no I am not going to do you homework by listing them all, that's Google's job.

- Tim

[Paragon]

Plus try to develop some imagination. What if your dad was Mr. Smith ?
Still funny cause you never liked him ?

Dude, that's just plain rude. My dad died about 4 years ago. 48hrs after my mother died.

I spent the last evening sitting by his bed reading on my Jornada....my discontinued Jornada...maybe if I had an Ipaq he'd still be here. :)

[x51vuser]

Plus try to develop some imagination. What if your dad was Mr. Smith ?
Still funny cause you never liked him ?

Dude, that's just plain rude. My dad died about 4 years ago. 48hrs after my mother died.

I spent the last evening sitting by his bed reading on my Jornada....my discontinued Jornada...maybe if I had an Ipaq he'd still be here. :)

Dude, I am really sorry but you know very well I did not mean to offend anybody. If you are really so offended you can put my dad for Mr. Smith.
Please stop provoking people to being rude and I am glad you kind of getting there .....
I bought Axim 8 months ago and now DELL has to clean all the bugs.
My dad taught me: you take money - you work. Please do not insult
my dad by questioning this rule.
I do not care what are DELL's "business decisions", whether it made
device for some corporate bozos or for rude, rednecks Smithes.
Can we end this subdiscussion ?

[RobertCF]

I've stuck with my X5 because it was--and still is--a top notch machine. The X50 was, in my considered opinion, a piece of junk by comparison---based on the fact that it had extremely little to offer compared to the X5 in exchange for the ridiculously high price. The X51--which really was just an update of the X50, NOT a new device--was precious little improvement over the X50. Again, too much price for too little improvement over the X5.

Now, someone posted that there are plenty of other choices. On this I completely disagree. I can't stand the stupid converged devices. I don't need a phone. I don't need a built-in thumboard or whatever you want to call that stupid excuse for data entry. The screens are getting smaller, and the devices are getting flimsier. As far as I'm concerned, a "choice" is a straight PDA. A screen with the same real estate I'm use to, with generous memory and dual slots. I don't even want built in wifi. Why? Because I want to put whatever wireless capability I want on the device via a card, thank you very much. Paying for some outdated wireless tech is just ridiculous. I look down my nose at all other kinds of devices. Toys. Useless, wasteful toys.

[Miz]

A few pages back, somebody said something to the effect that Sony stopped support without an announcement. I would like to tell you a bit about what support I had after Sony stopped making CLIEs.

Several months after it was official that Sony stopped making PDAs, my NX80V had power button failure. I took it to the service center and they were able to fix it. Charged for labour only. (It was out of warranty.)

A few months later, there was an issue about damp CCD sensors that affected several camera models, which unfortunately included several PDAs including the NX80V. Of course the camera on my NX80V died some time ago, but I didn't know it was because of this issue. So I took it in and they repaired it, this time for free.

Companies don't simply stop servicing products after they stop making it. If anything, they continue supporting them for years after almost everybody forgot it ever existed. It was sad when Sony stopped making Palm-based CLIEs, but if I were them I would've done the same.

[Richard76]

Me thinks Dell had to move all of their R&amp;D resources into designing batteries that don't go BOOM!