Yeah, The Zune Firmware Update is Late. So What?

[Jason Dunn]

I'm a little stunned to see stories like <a target="_blank" href="http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,130038-c,mp3players/article.html">this one</a>, and <a target="_blank" href="http://arstechnica.com/journals/microsoft.ars/2007/03/21/zune-users-angry-over-lack-of-firmware-update">this one</a>, where sites are spreading the news that some Zune owners are ticked off that the firmware update didn't arrive as scheduled. I've been fortunate enough to not have had the problem with the Zune skipping when listening to Marketplace tracks, so perhaps I'm biased, but I think this is getting blown out of proportion. First off, we (the Zune community) have been urging (begging?) the Zune team to be more open with us about what they're working on, updates coming, etc. So they finally are: they give us a rough release date (mid-March) and a proposed list of fixes for the Zune. That's big progress! But when they're a bit late (we're now in the latter part of March) everyone is up in arms.<br /><br />Should the Zune team have fixed this skipping problem months ago? Yes, absolutely: in fact, the product shouldn't have gotten out the door without this fix, but my hunch is no one saw it because they were testing the Zunes with their own ripped music. Even so, I have a hard time believing that a few days (or even a couple of weeks) makes that big of a difference to Zune owners that have put up with the problem for a few months. Irritating to even have the problem in the first place? Sure. Frustrating that the release isn't out yet? Yes. The end of the Zune world? Hardly. Let's keep things in perspective. Feel differently? Let me know...<br /><br />[As a sidebar on this issue, I'm more concerned with the fact that the three firmware updates thus far have all been focused on bug fixing - do they have another team working in parallel on new features? Or are we months away from being able to do anything new with our Zune because the one and only Zune firmware team is still in bug-fixing mode?]

[David Tucker]

1) I think that it got out the door with the skipping issue because its rare and not easily noticed. I wasn't aware of the issue until I was told about it. I honestly just didn't ever notice it happenning. Now that I know abotu it...I sometimes notice. But I took my Zune skiing (went for a week...got back not too long ago! IT was sweet :) ) and I had it playing 8 - 9 hour daily for about a week. Did I notice skipping? Once that I can recall. Did it skip more? I guess its possible...but I just don't notice it. Its not that big of a deal to me. I know it will be fixed so I couldn't care less.

2) I forgot about the patch until I saw the stories about it being late. So agian...whatever ;)

[vlefur]

I haven't experienced yet the skipping problem since 3 months, I wait for the new firm ware to bring more features that use the wireless capacity of the Zune or to enhance te resolution or to make the fast moving videos more fluid.
What do you wish - everybody :) - to have like for new featrures ?

[Jason Dunn]

What do you wish - everybody :) - to have like for new featrures ?

Me? I'd like to see:

A better on-device image scaling system to my 640 x 480 photos don't look so ugly when they're resized down to 320 x 240.
A clock
Support for Divx and h.264 directly on-device
Support for WMA Lossless, FLAC, and even OGGThe Zune needs to be more than just a pure Microsoft play if they want to attract people from outside the Microsoft ecosystem.

[USArcher]

I think if there is any disappointment its the fact they haven't released any new features yet. Thats probably the thing that is largerly behind the delayed firmware uproar. Microsoft could have handled this better with communication. Instead of giving us a new estimated date, they only said that it will be "soon".

[David Tucker]

A clock? :p

The ability to connect to Zunes that aren't local?

WiFi DJ idea?

Synching via WiFi?

Buy music on the zune?


That's what I want!

[vlefur]

A friend of mine is all Mac (MacBook Pro, iPod Nano) wouldn't want to hear about Zune just because of M$ !
I think here in Europe as people are not really pro-M$ and one of the possible ways for the Zune to have a better chance is to have its software to be opensource (or at least customized applications can easily be deployed).
Apple doesn't think about this yet, that's why M$ should consider this.
What do you think about this ? :)

[rzanology]

update? who cares. the zune is working well.

what i do want is some new features.
1. i want to be able to send videos.
2. really wish they would take the 3 day 3 play rule off the music.
3. more video codecs.
4. custom EQ on the device itself.
5. ability to record form radio

i know they can do these things...i wish they would get on the ball!

[Jason Dunn]

I think here in Europe as people are not really pro-M$ and one of the possible ways for the Zune to have a better chance is to have its software to be opensource

What would Microsoft gain by making their software open source? What advantage would there be in having 100's or 1000's of people doing their "own thing" with the software?

[rzanology]

What would Microsoft gain by making their software open source? What advantage would there be in having 100's or 1000's of people doing their "own thing" with the software?


think "smartphone" jason....hmmmm...smartplayer? lol. If microsoft is lazy (the god damn X button in the OS) then the community will provide. its really isn't a bad thought.

[Jason Dunn]

think "smartphone" jason....hmmmm...smartplayer? lol. If microsoft is lazy (the god damn X button in the OS) then the community will provide. its really isn't a bad thought.

But that's opening up the platform to third party development - not making the entire thing open source, which is throwing open the doors to the core OS code. Two very, very different things.

[rzanology]

But that's opening up the platform to third party development - not making the entire thing open source, which is throwing open the doors to the core OS code. Two very, very different things.

i see...point taken. i can't answer your origninal question...but opening it up to third party would be hella cool.

[vlefur]

What would Microsoft gain by making their software open source? What advantage would there be in having 100's or 1000's of people doing their "own thing" with the software?

Jason,

I see several advantages for M$ :

1. More developpers will be attracted to compete in imagination to develop the Zune application market.

2. Apple won't go opensource pretty soon because lack of developpers knowing their programming model. If M$ starts now before the Zune arrival in Europe by Septembre 2007, there's still be time to expect some inovative application.

I may be wrong :( , but what do you think of what's happening in the Java world : Sun makes Java6 Opensource, Oracle makes Toplink, and more ...

[David Tucker]

If people want a portable device that's an open platform and can play music and install software...get a WM PDA.

I like my Zune because its NOT an open platform. I know what I'm getting.

[Adam Krebs]

I think I recall David (Zunester) saying something about the fact that we won't be seeing a major firmware update (cool features and the like) until June. In the meantime, I just wish the album art wouldn't look so ugly. It's one of the greatest features Zune has going for it, and it's a shame that the marketplace is pretty much comparable to any other PlaysForSure store.

Even the company that rips the catalogs for Zune is the same as the one that rips for Urge and iTunes (and a host of other stores, including, I believe, eMusic). It really shouldn't be too big of an issue to get the files in the library, as iTunes already has them, but it's probably more of an issue of working with the Big Four.

[Damion Chaplin]

A clock? What a novel concept! ;)
In fact I just got a message this morning when I synced my Zune that my Zune's clock needed to be updated. And I'm thinking "My Zune has a clock?"

I would trade all the bug fixes in the world for a global Resume function and gapless playback. Well, one can always hope...

[rzanology]

gapless playback....i got forgot to add that one. oooooh how we need gapless playback!

[Adam Krebs]

And I'm thinking "My Zune has a clock?"

I think I read somewhere that the Zune doesn't have a dedicated battery for the clock, and it's pretty damn hard to have a clock without an extra battery (and without draining the main battery).

[Jason Dunn]

I think I read somewhere that the Zune doesn't have a dedicated battery for the clock, and it's pretty damn hard to have a clock without an extra battery (and without draining the main battery).

Hmm. That may be true, but on the other hand I have to wonder how much power a clock really needs to have to operate (I think not much). And wouldn't it be a fairly simple matter to just re-sync the clock with the desktop PC clock in the event of a 100% flatlined battery? Maybe I'm just being a wishful thinker, but I have to to hope that getting a clock on my Zune won't require a new hardware design. :confused:

Besides which, there's definitely an internal clock of some sort to measure the three days for shared music...

[Vercin]

I'm happy to hear that not everyone was having the skipping problem. Unfortunately, not everyone is that lucky. To the fellow who said he didn't really notice the skipping until it was pointed out: either you weren't having the skipping problems I was, or you had the volume turned all the way down. For me, the beginning of EVERY SINGLE SONG in a large playlist (like a random play-all, which, let's face it, is what a lot of people use media players for) would skip HORRIBLY for at least ten or fifteen seconds. It was unbearable. It was the sort of thing that you get FURIOUS at after spending $250 on a product (especially for a poor college student like myself). Before the firmware update that will supposedly fix this problem was announced, I gave up. I couldn't stand the long car trips I have to take wherein every single song would skip to the point of angering me. I returned it and bought an iPod. I said I'd never buy an iPod. They're ugly and they're overrated. But it works. I couldn't be happier with my decision. I hope that when Microsoft (a company I actually usually have a fair amount of respect for) rolls out other products of this sort, they test it extensively first to make sure that it doesn't have such inexcusable flaws.

On a side note, I kept my Zune Pass and have been using Tunebite to turn the songs into files I can use on my iPod. Unfortunately, the Zune Marketplace seems to be just as unfinished as I found the Zune, and it is slow and unresponsive in every possible way. Sometimes the marketplace doesn't show up and just my library is visible, in which case, I have to navigate through some menus until a link to the marketplace is showing somewhere so I can click on it. Very user-unfriendly. I'm probably going to switch to a different all-you-can-eat music service, because I'm sick of this. I hope Microsoft starts treating this division as more than a side-quest and decides to really take it seriously, because I was really disappointed in my original Zune purchase.

[eufreka]

I'm a little stunned to see stories like this one (http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,130038-c,mp3players/article.html), and this one (http://arstechnica.com/journals/microsoft.ars/2007/03/21/zune-users-angry-over-lack-of-firmware-update), where sites are spreading the news that some Zune owners are ticked off that the firmware update didn't arrive as scheduled. I've been fortunate enough to not have had the problem with the Zune skipping when listening to Marketplace tracks, so perhaps I'm biased, but I think this is getting blown out of proportion. . .

If you don't know the problem, it is no surprise you are bothered by it.

But the *reality* for ZunePass users who actually use their devices as intended (filled up with subscription content) is VERY DIFFERENT.

The skipping issue is persistent and unrelenting. Every song....

Granted it is only a problem if you exceed 60-70% storage of subscription music...but once you cross that threshold, the zune is utterly BROKEN.

The only legitimate thing Microsoft could have done at this point was put a warning sticker on every box! (Full capacity of device is NOT available for subscription music).

At this point, promising and missing deadlines is putting many people over the return threshold for their devices...it is really irresponsible for Microsoft not to specifically correct this ONE ISSUE.

Would you consider it "blown out of porportion" if EVERY Windows Mobile phone user could demonstrate that EVERY CALL started with 10-12 seconds of unintelligible stutter/echo? (Well, what if it only affected EVERY CALL to another Windows Mobile device?)

Conceptually, I consider the ZunePass THE iPod KILLER feature. It is the ONLY reason I bought the Zune.

[eufreka]

If people want a portable device that's an open platform and can play music and install software...get a WM PDA.

I like my Zune because its NOT an open platform. I know what I'm getting.

Well, see, that's part of the problem: A ZunePass makes very little sense on a limited storage device. I considered signing up with Yahoo Unlimited To Go on my Cing 8125, but for the storage issues.

What good is unlimited access to mobile music on a device with extremely limited mobile storage? Now, when they give you a host usb connection, or start stuffing the same drives in the phones, sure. But until then, it just doesn't make any sense. (This is doubly true due to the absence of untethered--OTA--syncing...)

I bought the Zune specifically for the Zune/ZunePass combo...big storage, photos/video (I have an MCE at home too), unlimited subscription. And the reality is that 100 gig devices are probably going to be the sweetspot for storage size...it is ridiculously easy to fill 27 gigs in a weekend...

[Jason Dunn]

At this point, promising and missing deadlines is putting many people over the return threshold for their devices...it is really irresponsible for Microsoft not to specifically correct this ONE ISSUE....Would you consider it "blown out of porportion" if EVERY Windows Mobile phone user could demonstrate that EVERY CALL started with 10-12 seconds of unintelligible stutter/echo? (Well, what if it only affected EVERY CALL to another Windows Mobile device?)

You're right - I hadn't quite thought of it that way. I agree it's completely unacceptable - in fact I'm very disappointed that the Zune team didn't notice this problem before they shipped the product. Makes you think that none of them bought a Zune and filled it up with Zune Pass music doesn't it? That's what testers are supposed to do - use the product the way a customer would.

All in all, the whole thing is quite disappointing and not a black eye that the Zune needed given all the other problems it's having gaining traction in the market.