Did You Get The Urge?

[Jon Westfall]

<img src=http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/wey-20060518-WMP11a.jpg><br /><br />Microsoft &amp; Viacom's new music store, URGE, integrates itself into Windows Media Player 11, a fact Darius highlighted in his recent <a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/articles.php?action=expand,48738">write-up</a>. With more than a week between then and now, I'm wondering how many of you felt the urge to try Urge. Personally I'm ready to ditch my Rhapsody subscription for Urge, ridding myself of a piece of software I'm not particularly thrilled with from a company I don't particularly like in favor of software that is already integrated into my media player of choice. So have you gotten the Urge? Are you already hooked? Or are you planning to continue with what you've been doing already, taking the "If it ain't broke" approach?

[Darius Wey]

If URGE was available outside of the United States, I'd probably subscribe. Of course, it's not that easy with all the different laws in each and every country - but that's not to say it can't be done. Apple moved heaven and earth to get iTMS in twenty-one countries, and I'm sure Microsoft and MTV could do the same if they tried. Sure, they might not be able to offer a subscription-based music service outside of the United States, but even an individual track/album purchasing service (like iTMS) would help draw additional customers.

[Phillip Dyson]

Okay,

Did I miss the "WMP 11 Now Released" annoucement? He said scrambling to check Windows Update.

[Ed Hansberry]

I plan on it, but I am going to wait for the final release. I have no desire to mess with beta software right now, much less beta DRM software. :?

[Darius Wey]

Did I miss the "WMP 11 Now Released" annoucement? He said scrambling to check Windows Update.

Well, if you're referring to the final release, then no. WMP 11 is still in beta, though available publicly: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/player/11/default.aspx

[MonTemplar]

Hmm... to be honest, the only music services that stock most of the music that I like are places like EMusic, Bleep and (yes) AllofMP3. And because I can get the tracks as bog-standard MP3, I've had no problem transferring my music collection around, between WMP10 and iTunes 6, onto my iPod, and to my HP iPAQ hx4700 (with 8GB CF card).

[Jason Dunn]

...AllofMP3....

Arrr matey, ye be delusional if ye thinks that be legal! :twisted:

Myself, I'd love to try out Urge, but it's US-only, so I can't even answer the poll. :?

[MonTemplar]

...AllofMP3....

Arrr matey, ye be delusion if ye thinks that be legal! :twisted:

Legal? Seems to be, certainly as far as the Russians are concerned. Ethical? Well, that depends on how much you believe the rumours about the site, and how much you hate the big record companies.

Personally, I'd only give them as much money as I'm prepared to shell out for the music I'm after right now. Which can work out to be quite a lot of music - I reckon I managed 8 albums, ripped to 128Mbps VBR coded MP3s, for just under $10. Can't find much fault with that kind of deal.

Myself, I'd love to try out Urge, but it's US-only, so I can't even answer the poll. :?

I'm actually more interested in Pandora (http://www.pandora.com), but that is also currently US-only, which is a shame as I like the idea of a music service that adapts to your tastes, rather than just shove what's "hot" in your face.

[Ed Hansberry]

...AllofMP3....

Arrr matey, ye be delusion if ye thinks that be legal! :twisted:
You mean it isn't legal to get Shakira's "Oral Fixation" for $1.14? I thought that was just the cost of the music sans the CD, freight charges, packaging, etc. :wink: :lol:

[Ed Hansberry]

I'm actually more interested in Pandora (http://www.pandora.com), but that is also currently US-only, which is a shame as I like the idea of a music service that adapts to your tastes, rather than just shove what's "hot" in your face.
You should take a look at Music Plasma - http://www.liveplasma.com/

It all links back to Amazon, but they do a great job of picking artists based on your tastes.

[Ipaqian One]

The only service I've found that sells high enough quality downloads for my tastes currently is Music Giants which sells everything in WMA lossless. If Urge gets around to lossless downloads I'll check it out but if they don't I'll stick with Music Giants.

I love and listen to music TOO much to be limited to only a lossy-compressed version of the download and since MTV (Urge's owner) tends to lean towards the lowest common denominator I don't anticipate them offering high quality downloads any time soon. I can get by with a compressed version on my Zen Vision but I need either the original or a lossless-compressed version of my music to listen back to on main stereo.

[MonTemplar]

You should take a look at Music Plasma - http://www.liveplasma.com/

It all links back to Amazon, but they do a great job of picking artists based on your tastes.

Just tried it, and it looks like it could be just the ticket! Best of all, you can select which Amazon site is nearest to you (I'm in the UK). Just ordered three CDs as a result. Thanks for pointing it out! :D

[JMountford]

I use Vcast Music for my store. Huge Library and convenient billing.

[x51vuser]

I request latest movies to be available for downolad or streaming from
outside US.
There are absolutely no legal issues preventing such service.

[Jason Dunn]

There are absolutely no legal issues preventing such service.

There are no TECHNICAL issues preventing it, but there are legal ones. Movies are licensed for distribution in each country. No license, no distribution.

[Jason Dunn]

Legal? Seems to be, certainly as far as the Russians are concerned.

You may tell yourself that make yourself somehow feel better, but it's simply not true.

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/7591.cfm
http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/13425

Ethical? Well, that depends on how much you believe the rumours about the site, and how much you hate the big record companies.

Rumours? The facts are that none of the money you pay gets to the artists that recorded the songs. Period. I've never read/heard about any artist or record label ever getting payment from AllofMP3.com. And hating big record companies doesn't may not paying for music ethical - it's the artist you're stealing from.

I reckon I managed 8 albums, ripped to 128Mbps VBR coded MP3s, for just under $10. Can't find much fault with that kind of deal.

The fault I find is that it's stealing. AllofMP3 is absolutely, positively, and utterly no different than using Bittorent or any other P2P tool. :?

[MonTemplar]

Jason, I consider myself duly enlighted. :oops:

[Jason Dunn]

Jason, I consider myself duly enlighted. :oops:

Happy to oblige. ;-) I see from your above message that you still purchase CDs, so there's hope for you after all. ;-)

[Golfer]

I have just downloaded the beta, and it looks good albeit that there is no online store for the UK.

I have a basic question, is it possible to setup a podcast folder and sync it with my ipaq 5550? Is it similar to iTunes where you can select your podcasts and update/refresh the downloads; and then sync with the pda? This may have been possible with earlier versions of WMP, but how would you do it?

Thanks in advance.

[MonTemplar]

Happy to oblige. ;-) I see from your above message that you still purchase CDs, so there's hope for you after all. ;-)

I estimate that CDs still make up at least half of my music purchases in the last year - I also use download services such as EMusic or Bleep, particularly for stuff that would be hard to get hold of via Amazon and the like. I've even started to buy music directly from artists, or the indy labels that they belong to - in some cases, that is the only way to get hold of the music. That is one trend that I'd like to see more of in the future! :)

[Jason Dunn]

I have a basic question, is it possible to setup a podcast folder and sync it with my ipaq 5550? Is it similar to iTunes where you can select your podcasts and update/refresh the downloads; and then sync with the pda? This may have been possible with earlier versions of WMP, but how would you do it?

Sort of. If you create a folder (/podcasts) in your My Music folder, and Windows Media Player is set up to monitor that folder, you should see the Podcasts appear in your library. From there you can set up playlists or rules to sync the content over to your Pocket PC. It won't be as seamless or as slick as iTunes though...

[TomB]

Jason, at one point I would spend a lot of time explaining all the points you make about content. It always amazed me that people somehow never thought that helping themselves to others' work without paying or for a nominal bandwidth fee was wrong. I finally gave up because nobody ever seemed to listen and I was starting to feel like an RIAA pimp. I am glad to see that has changed, otherwise there would be no reason for being a musician, filmmaker or author. Kind of like anyone here not getting a paycheck because their employer didn't feel like paying them for that week's work.

For the record, any temporary timeshift of broadcast music, film or video that is not copy-protected (US broadcasters are fighting for copy protection now), is absolutely legal for the personal use of the individual timeshifting. Any other unpaid use of content is wrong. That certainly includes P2P and all subscriptions where you are paying for bandwidth not the content. In the USA (not Canada or France) it also covers ripping content you own! HOWEVER on rips for PERSONAL use in the USA, we are talking "enforceable" since no one but you knows you are ripping - right?

In an interesting sidenote, most people don't know this but Steve Jobs pretty much made legal internet content distribution happen. The music industry is made up of hundreds of thousands of indie "publishers." Up until Steve, only a fraction were represented by major publishers like EMI. That is one of the reasons why Napster flourished for as long as they did!

[Golfer]

I have a basic question, is it possible to setup a podcast folder and sync it with my ipaq 5550? Is it similar to iTunes where you can select your podcasts and update/refresh the downloads; and then sync with the pda? This may have been possible with earlier versions of WMP, but how would you do it?

Sort of. If you create a folder (/podcasts) in your My Music folder, and Windows Media Player is set up to monitor that folder, you should see the Podcasts appear in your library. From there you can set up playlists or rules to sync the content over to your Pocket PC. It won't be as seamless or as slick as iTunes though...


Thanks. In that case, a little off topic, but is it easy to sync the podcasts in iTunes with a pda?

[Jason Dunn]

Thanks. In that case, a little off topic, but is it easy to sync the podcasts in iTunes with a pda?

I don't think it's possible - Apple wants you to do you listening on an iPod, not on a Pocket PC. ;-)

[TomB]

Jason is right, however France is trying to force Apple to open their players to all music, especially French music labels that don't have contracts with Apple. On the face of it that sounds great, but the truth is without a 2,000 pound Gorilla like Apple in the industry forcing compliance and keeping record companies from doing stupid things like raising their pricing on a zero cost distribution channel, we would be back in the dark ages. That is no good for a healthy creative community. We can see some of the effects of "free" or traded content already - Sam Goodies and SunCoast Video went out of business last month. SG was around from the fifties and both closings took out 1200 stores and 10,000 retail jobs - to say nothing of major walk-in hands-on access to content. The only major player left in the USA is Tower Records and they are in trouble too.

[jlp]

Legal? Seems to be, certainly as far as the Russians are concerned.

You may tell yourself that make yourself somehow feel better, but it's simply not true.

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/7591.cfm
http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/13425

Ethical? Well, that depends on how much you believe the rumours about the site, and how much you hate the big record companies.

Rumours? The facts are that none of the money you pay gets to the artists that recorded the songs. Period. I've never read/heard about any artist or record label ever getting payment from AllofMP3.com. And hating big record companies doesn't may not paying for music ethical - it's the artist you're stealing from.

I reckon I managed 8 albums, ripped to 128Mbps VBR coded MP3s, for just under $10. Can't find much fault with that kind of deal.

The fault I find is that it's stealing. AllofMP3 is absolutely, positively, and utterly no different than using Bittorent or any other P2P tool. :?

Let's see this information that comes from TechLawAdvisor:
http://techlawadvisor.com/blog/2004/04/is-allofmp3com-legal.html

[jlp]

And I'm sorry lads, but DRM is inaDRMissible and UNethical:

To be considered ethical it HAS to be ethical for ALL parties involved:
1) musicians: it's quite ethical for them
2) publishers: it better be "ethical" to them since they had the main words on the matter (tho I find -and most will find- the words business and ethical to be antinomic :twisted:)
3) endusers: DRMatically it is absolutely unethical, unpractical, and too complicated.

On step one, buying a DRM protected song is easy... untill you reach step 2:
you can't read it on the player (sofrtare and hardware) you want, you HAVE to make sure to get the player that supports it. How many people found out too late theirs didn't support the DRMatic scheme and HAD to buy a new player?!
you have very limited usage rights, those are constraining, they change from song to song, etc. I've had 3 HDDs dying on me or giving me trouble in the past 2 years. How many times will that happen again in the dozens of more years I expect to live?!
I wouldn't be surprised to know Apple and Microsoft &amp; allies have 10+ times more support people since they started their DRMatic schemes, and that's NOT ONLY due to increased sales, BUT to help thru DRMatic nightmares.
AND that will only get worse as people will upgrade their machines or change key components, like mainboards, CPUs and HDDs, whether they failed or not.

France's lawmakers attempted to make it easier on the endusers... time will tell if they succeed... the law is not yet into effect as I understand. Anyway thing have changed over and over since Q4, 05 so who knows what will come out of it 8O.

I've had too many problems with computers and parts in my quarter century of computing to mess up with yet another unnecessary layer of SH!T.

I just buy CDs and make sure they're NOT crippled either or I get around.

I may, I'm not in the US nor in EU :twisted:!!

[Don't Panic!]

Let's see this information that comes from TechLawAdvisor:
http://techlawadvisor.com/blog/2004/04/is-allofmp3com-legal.htmlThat 2 year old TechLawAdvisor information basically said it might be legal. While Jason's post with link to afterdawn.com is from last week and allofMP3 is declared unequivocally illegal in that one.

I'm sticking with CDs and personal use ripping.

[ale_ers]

I'm a current Napster-to-go subscriber and I want to switch to Urge. Has anyone found an easy way to do this? I want to find all my songs that were downloaded as subscription tracks, so that I can just re-download them as Urge tracks, but it doesn't seem easy.

The problem is if I make an Auto playlist of Napster Tracks, it mixes Napster purchased tracks with subscription tracks. I guess I could switch and try to reconcile them after, but I just wondered if anyone had a better idea, or has gone through the process themselves.

[TomB]

jlp you are 100% right, DRM sucks, but that is pretty hairbrained justification for stealing. Look, if you have problem with music services and their clearly stated terms of use, don't use them or find a service that most fits your needs. Or, as Bobby says, stick with buying unprotected CDs and ripping them in the privacy of your own home.

Of course, if you really feel strongly about all this, support the Electronic Frontier Foundation at eff.org. They are trying to fight DRM through legal venues.

[jlp]

jlp you are 100% right, DRM sucks, but that is pretty hairbrained justification for stealing.

I don't understand why you're bringing this word into the discussion?? I haven't talked about such a behavior, nor did anybody here (or somebody else did??)

Look, if you have problem with music services and their clearly stated terms of use, don't use them or find a service that most fits your needs. Or, as Bobby says, stick with buying unprotected CDs and ripping them in the privacy of your own home.

That's what I do... mostly. As far as protected CDs are concerned there are legal ways around that... for those of us priviledged enough to live outside of the US and the EU :twisted:.

Of course, if you really feel strongly about all this, support the Electronic Frontier Foundation at eff.org. They are trying to fight DRM through legal venues.

Good idea. Good thing that there are people against something inaDRMissible :twisted:.

[Ed Hansberry]

jlp you are 100% right, DRM sucks, but that is pretty hairbrained justification for stealing.

I don't understand why you're bringing this word into the discussion?? I haven't talked about such a behavior, nor did anybody here (or somebody else did??)
By trying to justify allofmp3, you pretty much did. It steals from the artist and copyright holder by not paying them. Worse, it charges you. That makes it worse than p2p.

[k1darkknight]

Curiously, I'm one of those backward freaks who MOSTLY listens to music on the radio! :lol: And not even XM or Sirius! Granted, I have a LOT of MP3's (all 'perfectly legal'...or something...), but I actually listen to them very little. I even have shortcuts to streaming audio of a couple local radio stations...so, maybe I'm not TOTALLY 'backward' after all...
Well...just my 2c