EU Considers Tax On Email and SMS Messages

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=internetNews&amp;storyID=2006-05-26T121239Z_01_L26740888_RTRIDST_0_OUKIN-UK-TELECOMS-EU-FUNDING.XML">http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=internetNews&amp;storyID=2006-05-26T121239Z_01_L26740888_RTRIDST_0_OUKIN-UK-TELECOMS-EU-FUNDING.XML</a><br /><br /><i>"European Union lawmakers are investigating a proposed tax on emails and mobile phone text messages as a way to fund the 25-member bloc in the future. A European Parliament working group is reviewing the idea, tabled by Alain Lamassoure, a prominent French MEP and member of the centre-right European People's Party, the assembly's largest group. Lamassoure, a member of Jacques Chirac's UMP party, is proposing to add a tax of around 1.5 cents on text or SMS messages and a 0.00001 cent levy on every email sent."</i><br /><br />Commies. :evil: Of course, they will never be able to collect from the spammers. I personally wouldn't mind a hefty charge, like 10 cents per email, but you get to send around 5,000 free a month. That would take care of all but the most chatty of email users and even some small businesses. But again, no way to ensure it is collected since most spammer's email servers are in the form of malware on user's machines, and that isn't what this tax is about anyway. Just another way for politicians to raise money so they can spend it. :roll:

[Duncan]

Ed - using the term 'Commies' here is beneath you. Putting aside how offensive it could be to many Europeans who have actually experienced Communist rule - it makes you sound like one of your more ignorant countrymen who routinely refer to Europeans, any form of left winger and just about anyone they don't approve as a 'Commie'.

It is also a little ironic that you haven't noticed that this measure has been proposed by a right-winger. Hardly suprising as left wing governments in Europe are getting rarer.

Of course this is only a proposal and stands little chance of getting passed - never mind actively adopted.

Perhaps your bile would be better directed at your own politicians - who are on the knife edge of allowing a two tier internet (with two opposing measures set to battle things out) - something that will affect not just Europe but the world? The same people who allowed the DMCA to get passed and will no doubt look at this EU proposal and be thinking - 'good idea'.

It is also worth pointing out that the majority of spam that enters my PC, and doesn't come from Russia, originates from the USA (with spam sent to non-business addresses being illegal and attracting high fines in the EU) - so no - odds are a tax on emails wouldn't be collected from spammers.

[Christopher]

Thanks Duncan, for putting this in a polite manner. I might have used stronger words.

Using political labels, and particularly wrong ones, will not serve a community as the Pocket PC Thoughts. (This includes the last sentence in the original post.)

Take care.

[Ed Hansberry]

Ed - using the term 'Commies' here is beneath you...It is also a little ironic that you haven't noticed that this measure has been proposed by a right-winger. Hardly suprising as left wing governments in Europe are getting rarer.
I pretty much categorize all politicians as commies, right and left, because they are only right and left of a line that I generally think is way out in left field when it comes to the government's role in my life.

I also don't care much about what people think about me staying inside their definition of political correctness. :)

[Ed Hansberry]

Just another way for politicians to raise money so they can spend it. :roll:
Using political labels, and particularly wrong ones, will not serve a community as the Pocket PC Thoughts. (This includes the last sentence in the original post.)
:?:

Who would you have me direct my anger towards? The politicians that dreamed this up, the people that administer it should it pass, the ISPs that process the email? I think I'll take what's behind door number one, the politicians. :?

[Duncan]

Ed - using the term 'Commies' here is beneath you...It is also a little ironic that you haven't noticed that this measure has been proposed by a right-winger. Hardly suprising as left wing governments in Europe are getting rarer.
I pretty much categorize all politicians as commies, right and left, because they are only right and left of a line that I generally think is way out in left field when it comes to the government's role in my life.

I also don't care much about what people think about me staying inside their definition of political correctness. :)

I apppreciate you have that odd (uniquely American?) view of government - but that really isn't enough Ed. This isn't about being PC. This is about badly abusing a word that is, frankly, offensive in context when talking about EU politics.

Not being PC is one thing - not caring that the words you use can offend for good historical reasons - that's just thoughtless. Not to mention inaccurate. Words have meanings and I would hope that people would want to se them correctly. Would you refer to people as Nazis so easily?

Or will you happily tell an East German poster - someone who experienced real 'Commie' politicians that they are just PC if they find your trivial use of the term offensive? That the actual meaning of the term doesn't matter and you can use it as you want?

Trust me Ed - I'm no PC'er - but in this instance I'm afraid you are simply wrong.

[Ed Hansberry]

I apppreciate you have that odd (uniquely American?) view of government - but that really isn't enough Ed.
I find it offensive you criticize my view as odd and then categorize that as American thought in general. :roll:

Do you have any comments on the article, or are you just here to preach again Duncan?

[Duncan]

I apppreciate you have that odd (uniquely American?) view of government - but that really isn't enough Ed.
I find it offensive you criticize my view as odd and then categorize that as American thought in general. :roll:

Do you have any comments on the article, or are you just hear to preach again Duncan?

I'm not going to repeat myself - I'm just sorry you can't see the point. Or that you see my words as preaching or offensive.

As to comments on the article - I made them above. You need to be focussing on the real dangers to the internet closer to home - not worrying about this proposition that stands a cat's chance in hell of getting anywhere.

[unxmully]

I apppreciate you have that odd (uniquely American?) view of government - but that really isn't enough Ed.
I find it offensive you criticize my view as odd and then categorize that as American thought in general. :roll:

Wow! Spooky! Two people make sweeping and potentially offensive generalisations and offend eachother. I never thought I'd live to see that.

Problem is Ed, Duncan's right and you're wrong.

Do you have any comments on the article, or are you just here to preach again Duncan?

And there was me thinking that when I pay my ISP for a connection that includes access to an smtp and pop/imap server, I'd paid my dues and any taxes. Oh well, wrong again.

[Ed Hansberry]

Problem is Ed, Duncan's right and you're wrong.my opinion about something that isn't black and white is wrong? interesting...

And there was me thinking that when I pay my ISP for a connection that includes access to an smtp and pop/imap server, I'd paid my dues and any taxes. Oh well, wrong again.
Ha! never underestimate the government's ability to tax you again. :)

[Christopher]

"I pretty much categorize all politicians as commies, right and left, because they are only right and left of a line that I generally think is way out in left field when it comes to the government's role in my life."

I had to check the age of the person writing these lines. Sorry.

Well, I think an editor should consider how to write on issues he is familiar with and I think an editor should promote the interests of the site he writes on.

Besides that, thanks for an interesting reference to a proposal by someone in the EU! Still, Duncan provided a satisfying answer in the second post to that proposal.

[Ed Hansberry]

Well, I think an editor should consider how to write on issues he is familiar with and I think an editor should promote the interests of the site he writes on.
you seem to be new here, at least as a poster. let me introduce myself. I am Ed Hansberry and of all the editors here, my posts have the dubious distinction of being most likely to stir things up. The site subtitle is Daily News, Views, Rants and Raves. I tens to fall on the right half of that slogan. Welcome to Pocket PC Thoughts! :D

and to your other point, duncan didn't answer anything. He replied with a red herring, invoking a logical fallacy rather than discussing the issue at hand.

[Duncan]

and to your other point, duncan didn't answer anything. He replied with a red herring, invoking a logical fallacy rather than discussing the issue at hand.

No. He replied by pointing out that the propostion wasn't likely to get passed and that there were real issues to do with the future of the internet more worthy of focussing on. An actual internet threatening measure actively at risk of passing in the effective home of the internet does rather trump one EU politico making a suggestion...!

I did also respond to your rather silly point about taxing spammers by making the accurate observation that the US supplies one of the biggest groups of spammers. I'd say that was a fair response to the point made.

There really isn't anything more to say about it. This isn't a draft law, or government policy, or EU policy, or party policy. This is one person's suggestion of a possible solution to a perceived problem.

Should this ever become something real - an actual risk - then I'll offer further opinion. Right now, however, you are asking us to discuss Chicken Little's observation that the sky is falling.

No red herring or logical fallacy I'm afraid. Just a pin prick to an attempt to raise panic about something there is no need to panic about (seriously - when Bill Gates suggested paying for emails - did people worry? I don't recall anyone panicking...!).

[JonnoB]

Sometimes I think it would have been better to leave the ownership and control of the internet (ARPANET) to the US-based institutions... just as the US has continue to control the domain naming system. 8)

[joker]

I might have used stronger words.you use nothing here, all laugh at you.
stop being an idiot or i will crush you with my qtek.

(This includes the last sentence in the original post.)even my 5 years old kid knows this FACT. now we both laugh at you.

I'm just sorry you can't see the point.i'm just sorry to see that you try to teach others some manners which are not needed and i demand from you that you stop it.

just this to you, duncan: i live in east berlin/germany since my birth and i have absolutely no problems with ed's article. but i do find it funny that you even came with a "nazi" phrase. OMG!

I had to check the age of the person writing these lines. Sorry.please go away idiot, you have no clue.


whoever freed the freak above me should bring him a truckload hamburgers to make him happy and stop thinking (in the "we are mighty america"-way).

have a nice sunday.

[iant54]

My view on the story? I note with interest that it's being proposed by a French politician! The French government seem to cherrypick the edicts passed by the European Union (come back the EEC!) as to which they'll obey and which they'll totally ignore!

[x51vuser]

Problem is Ed, Duncan's right and you're wrong.my opinion about something that isn't black and white is wrong? interesting...

And there was me thinking that when I pay my ISP for a connection that includes access to an smtp and pop/imap server, I'd paid my dues and any taxes. Oh well, wrong again.
Ha! never underestimate the government's ability to tax you again. :)

I am from EU and not offended how you called those pols :-)
In fact in many areas EU imposed double or even triple taxation -
take gas price for example. The amount of different taxes at the
pump is well over 300% in some EU countries.
Or another example: They made Handango US website to collect sales
tax on software sold online to individuals in EU countries.
AFAIK US individuals do not pay sales tax even when they buy
something from different state not to mention from different country.

[bjornkeizers]

I also don't care much about what people think about me staying inside their definition of political correctness. :)

Nice one Ed, I'll have to remember that one next time anyone has a tantrum over political discussions :D

Back on topic, taxing the internet and email would be like trying to hold water in a sieve. You can't tax spammers in other countries, and most users with more then basic computer knowledge know how to use things like proxys and encryption to mask any traffic. Then there's web-based mail services like Hotmail or Gmail... there's simply no way a general email tax could be enforced.

[Sven Johannsen]

Back on topic, taxing the internet and email would be like trying to hold water in a sieve. You can't tax spammers in other countries, and most users with more then basic computer knowledge know how to use things like proxys and encryption to mask any traffic. Then there's web-based mail services like Hotmail or Gmail... there's simply no way a general email tax could be enforced.

This is something that surfaces every year or so. I think bjornkeizers is right that it would be virtualy impossible to implement...for e-mail. SMS I think is a different story. The phone companies have already figured out how to bill that, and if you have a billing system, you can add a tax system. This I would be concerned about...if I used SMS. I don't. I use either IM or e-mail, neither of which are particularly easy to extract from general data transfer for the purpose of billing...or taxing. That's sort of why I gravitate to those methods. I have an unlimited data plan, so I can send all the e-mail, with media attachments even, and IM that I want. SMS and MMS my ISP hits me by the item.

For the PC side of this I really don't see this as a 'commie' thing. Sounds emminantly capitalistic to me. Someone would be making money off of it ;) Guess there has always been some disparity between the promise of various social/political/economic sytems and their implementation by people.

[Christopher]

My interest in Pocket PC Thoughts has been reduced after the prejudice Ed showed, withouth any substantial link to the issue discussed.

(Avoiding political correctness and making statements that are plain wrong is not the same. And we should learn form that.)

Anyway, the one person [!] from the centre-right [!] European People's Party has now made comments on what he claims to have said:

http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2157449/eu-tax-sms-email

Apparently, the whole thing got wrong from the very beginning and it seems media are more to blame than the person considering links between taxation and new technologies.