Return of the Mobile Madman: It's a Love-Hate Relationship

[Raphael Salgado]

Ever feel like a "paying beta tester?" Ever think that manufacturers are just not listening to the customer? Ever wanted to jump ship and leave the Windows Mobile platform behind... but just couldn't?<br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/salgado-stompjasjar.jpg" /><br /><br />I'm convinced that I'm in a love-hate relationship with Windows Mobile devices. If you recall my previous article, "<a href="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/articles.php?action=expand,47921">Is This The Diary of a Mobile Madman?</a>" I explained how I went through a total of ten devices in a continuous 16-month period and ended up with a Treo 700w on Verizon Wireless. Some of you predicted I'd abandon that device soon enough. In all honesty, I had no idea that those individuals would be right. Read on for the rest of the story.<br /><!><br />I'd like to think that, like Elizabeth Taylor with all her past husbands, the "honeymoon period" that most people experience with their freshly-unpacked mobile devices would have eluded me by now. If that's the case, having the Treo 700w was undoubtedly a bittersweet experience.<br /><br />As much as I hate to admit it, whoever said that the Treo 700w was "memory deficient" was absolutely right. <i>Palm, if you're listening,</i> it was very clever marketing to say, "128MB memory (60MB user accessible)" without ever mentioning that it was all Storage Memory. In my experience, up until its initial release, many were speculating how much RAM was actually available on the 700w, <b>because that information was never officially given!</b> It would appear that the 32MB of RAM (of which less than 15MB of it is free after bootup) would become the "grand field test."<br /><br />To their credit, every application that's compatible with the Treo 700w and other square-screen devices runs as it's supposed to. It's when you want to run them together that you'll find tremendous difficulty and frustration. For example, with my unlimited data plan, the first program I want running is <a href="http://www.agilemobile.com/agile_messenger.html">Agile Messenger</a> for my instant messaging. Of course, that program will be running in the background, waiting for chats, while I go off and do my normal routine - surfing the net, playing music, etc. I launch Internet Explorer and surf for a little bit, then go back to Agile Messenger, only to find that it quietly shut itself down somewhere along the line. If I relaunch it, then return to Internet Explorer, my current surfing session is gone and I'm back to my homepage. Add the fact that Microsoft Voice Command can take up to an additional 2MB of precious memory to sit patiently waiting for instruction, and you'll see why Palm quietly disabled Voice Command by default.<br /><br />It's even been noted that with the latest 1.10 firmware update from Palm, the threshold/sensitivity for Internet Explorer Mobile has been increased from 2MB to 5MB, meaning that if there's less than 5MB of RAM available (which will happen quite easily), it'll shut down to prevent memory errors.<br /><br /><b>The bottom line is, if I wanted a device that's not going to be able to multitask, I might as well have gotten a Palm OS device.</b> Good news (sarcasm) - the Treo 700p is being released as we speak. :roll:<br /><br />On a sidenote, the kicker that did it in for my Treo 700w was the problematic Bluetooth implementation. I have a Motorola H605 headset, and if another device, such as a Bluetooth GPS, was registered and listed as a paired device, less than half my calls would actually route to the headset. My 700w also crashed often when trying to do the initial pair to any device, requiring a soft reset. As mobile as I am, not being able to use the Bluetooth headset and a Bluetooth GPS (not even simultaneously, mind you) is a big 'no-no' for me.<br /><br /><i>So, where am I now?</i> Luckily, the people at the Verizon Wireless store in Jersey City know me so well that they were able to change out my device (for the last time) for anything else in the store. I spent over an hour with the XV6700 again, and the Samsung i730. While the infamous "DSOD issue" plagued my previous XV6700, I read numerous reports by DSOD-free users who bypassed the Verizon customizations or even removed the contents of the device's Extended ROM. On the other hand, the Samsung i730 recently received its "official" Windows Mobile 5 upgrade.<br /><br />Frustrated, I had even considered dropping the Pocket PC platform altogether and go for a RAZR V3c or even an LG VX9800, and possibly tether it to a crazy-expensive device I was planning to get - the Sony VAIO UX180P Micro PC. But, the battery life and hard drive speed of a notebook PC is still no match for a Pocket PC, so I had to stay with a Windows Mobile device. Yes, I know, Verizon Wireless has an extremely limited selection compared to the GSM world, but dreading all the proprietary accessories I'd have to buy for the i730 (car charger, additional sync cables, AC adapters, etc) and the bulky form-factor, I decided to cross my fingers and return to the XV6700.<br /><br /><i>If there are any manufacturers out there who are reading this,</i> I would like to point out a few simple yet helpful points in order to make your future devices successful, and your future customers happy (yes, cha-ching cha-ching, money money, sales sales - apparently the only language they speak):<br /><li><b>Standardize.</b> Would it kill you NOT to choose your future device's specifications by writing them on index cards and throwing them up in the air? HTC's Hermes is a perfect example. Beautiful device, decent specs... <i>but a microSD slot?</i> :? What company paid you to influence that decision? Why do I have to keep buying new accessories each time? Samsung and E-TEN: I have a new word for you: <i>"mini-USB."</i> It's only five pins, it's tiny, it's cute, and it's easy. Quit making up new connectors for the same old thing. I don't want to have to buy my accessories from some Hong Kong dealer on eBay when my local CompUSA sells mini-USB cables by the truckload. And if you're going to keep denying us 3.5mm audio connectors, at least keep the 2.5mm pinouts the same.<br /><li><b>Keep up.</b> E-TEN gives a perfect example. They manage to squeeze out yet another quadband device (M600+) that still crawls at GPRS speeds. :evil: Is EDGE that hard to implement? I'm told that it's as simple as a <a href="http://www.3gamericas.org/english/technology_center/articles/close_to_edge.cfm">software upgrade on the tower's end</a> - can't it be done on the device's end? And for those who still release tri-band GSM devices, shame on you and everyone who you're associated with. You may deny an entire country the proper use of your device, but hey, it's your monetary loss. And, if 64MB has been working for everyone else, the least you could do is provide the same (hint hint, Palm).<br /><li><b>Support.</b> 8O Yes, I know. I can hear the violins playing, too. God forbid you have to answer to someone who has already paid you. But, this is the reason why you're in business in the first place, or have you already forgotten that? If the device can handle an upgrade, give it an upgrade path. Not everyone can toss a PDA aside (even me) for the next one because it has the latest 0.002.01 patch we need to make our current device worth keeping. And, if you hear rumors that your support team is not doing a good job, it's probably accurate. Perhaps if you gathered up some active forum members (present company included) and gave them a salary and a spot on your support staff, your reputation may be remarkably different than what it is now.<br /><li><b>Innovate.</b> I hear Blackberry is doing well with a "scroll wheel." :roll: You'd be surprised that some people would pay just a little bit extra cash for just a little bit extra effort. Innovation can be on the software side, too. Palm did a great job in really making their first Pocket PC device actually user-friendly and intuitive, that even my 4-year-old daughter could pick it up and dial without my intervention. Scary proposition, isn't it, guys?So, I say to manufacturers: I've been a "paying beta tester" for so long, how about giving people like me a chance to beta test your upcoming devices in a "real world" setting, with "real world" applications and in "real world" situations? If that was the case, the Treo 700w would have been released with at least 64MB of RAM and Bluetooth 2.0 with A2DP, the HTC Universal would have been at least quadband EDGE, the HTC Hermes would have had an SDIO slot that it deserves, and lastly, the HTC Wizard would have had a real XScale processor at 400MHz. The world would be a better place then, and many of us might not be in a love-hate relationship with these devices... Wouldn't you agree? ;)<br /><br />Now, I gotta go cancel that preorder on SonyStyle.com... :|

[Jeff Song]

Nothing is, nor will it ever be, perfect. This isn't just for our beloved PPCs - it goes for our cars, food, clothes....even our loved ones. The point I'm trying to make is that there are faults in EVERYTHING - manmade or not. What we have to do is to first UNDERSTAND that a device has shortcomings and decide if it breaks the deal. If it doesn't, we have to learn to live with it. Otherwise, you might as well go back to a basic Nokia cell phone and carry around a Dayplanner. It might not be technologically advanced, but it'll do its job. I for one believe that you're just very hard to please and you might never be satisfied.

[Jon Westfall]

Wow Raphael, I think you truly are a mobile madman - and being one myself, I completely understand. Embrace your inner geek, be strong, and never be embarassed by friends who role their eyes and say "Another new phone???". They're just jealous that your device can do ten times more than their ringtone laden, nickle and diming for downloads, pretty DUMBphones ;)

[msafi]

I agree with the points that Raphael made. Because there is no standadization in the PPC world, believe it or not, I couldn't even find a proper 2.5mm headset. I tried about 10 headsets at different cell-phone stores, non of which worked. I finally had to take my original OEM stereo headphones and turn it into a sing-earpeice headset. Now, if I want to buy another OEM stereo headphones, I don't know where to do it, which leads me to the support issue.

I own a Mitac Mio A701, and I have no idea how to get in touch with the makers of the device. It's full of quirks and problems but it basically works, so I decided to keep it. Why? Not because I don't have enough money to keep trying different devices, but because I don't really need another phone right now. May be by the time I start working, Mitac will have released a ROM update that fixes the issues I have with the device. A similar situation happened to me with the Treo 650. Shortly after I abandoned the device, Palm released fixes for faulty dial tone problem which prevented phone menu navigation and Bluetooth. That made me wish I had stayed with the Treo.

As for innovation and keeping up, I don't think it's as easy as we think. There are so many different features out there, there is no way one device can have them all. Unless of course it has some form of modularity that allows you to choose different features at different times. But even this may not be very technically feasible.

BTW, I don't think that PPC companies choose not to implement certain features just to have something to improve in the next generation. It doesn't work this way in a free global market.

[xdev]

companies sell products to make money and thus they will create their products to suit a large a market as possible.

well most of them anyway, some product lines like some at sony are just there to show off the companies technical powress

anyway my point is, if you want a device that suits you perfectly, just like a tailor made suit, you;re going to have to custom make one!

[alese]

Nothing is, nor will it ever be, perfect...

Could not agree more, but...
I also understand and agree with Raphael.
The problem here is not so much that every man made thing/device is not perfect, the problem is that too many devices, especially mobile devices are manufactured and sold to users with, to put it mildly questionable decisions (features).
Stuff like 32 Mb RAM in Treo, strange connectors, missing features (A2DP) and most of all rushed ROM images full of bugs really give the impression that if you buy early device, you are going to pay the manufacturer to be it's beta tester.
Like many of you here I would not mind to beta test stuff, if I would get something in return, but when I buy 500+ EUR device I would expect it to work wihout waiting for ROM update...

[Silver5]

I think I may have been one of those warning you about the memory (among other 700w trouble spots) over at Howardforums. I have never been interested in it because I heard about all of the changes Palm made to the software as well as the lack of RAM. They knew it would be a problem and they didn't care.

I really thought that if Palm made a Treo that was capable a running Windows Mobile it would be the best WM device released. Palm decided to take most of the great advantages usually available in WM and make them more like in Palm-OS, thereby ruining the advantage of the OS change, and making it seem as if WM just wasn't up to the job. I'm tempted to say that they may have done this purposely in some backhanded way! I wonder if some of the loyalists over there knew the 700w would be lacking by putting it together the way they did. This would let them keep their pride and make the 700p (which is barely any better than the 650, if at all) look like a big deal.

I really love Palm OS devices. The Treo was one of two devices I kept for over 10 months in the last 3 years or so (the i-mate JAM came next). I really don't have a bias towards one OS like most here might, but I do have a strong bias towards what works, over those things that don't. The Treo 700w doesn't work. Yet, the HTC models all seem just fine as do the Eten devices and many others. It looks like PALM is the problem. They are the best with the form factor of the Treo but they really screw the pooch when it comes to making it all work properly...at least as of late.

[Jeff Song]

Nothing is, nor will it ever be, perfect...

Could not agree more, but...
I also understand and agree with Raphael.
The problem here is not so much that every man made thing/device is not perfect, the problem is that too many devices, especially mobile devices are manufactured and sold to users with, to put it mildly questionable decisions (features).
Stuff like 32 Mb RAM in Treo, strange connectors, missing features (A2DP) and most of all rushed ROM images full of bugs really give the impression that if you buy early device, you are going to pay the manufacturer to be it's beta tester.
Like many of you here I would not mind to beta test stuff, if I would get something in return, but when I buy 500+ EUR device I would expect it to work wihout waiting for ROM update...
I agree that palm giving users only 32mb (and only 15 free) was a complete mistake on its part that should have never happened.

But things like A2DP - well this usually isn't advertised and its more or less a nice feature to have for some, but most users probably won't take advantage of it anyways. Now of course it would be great for us if every company just adopted the use of miniUSB plugs for everything, but then companies wouldn't have anything left to sell to us, and you know that they make a lot of money on accessories. Also, there are usually reasons for the choices these companies make - the 200mhz processor in the wizard/prophet for example, was used to give better battery life. As I was saying, a device that is perfect to you might be quite the opposite for me - as companies are trying to appeal to a broad market and trying to make a profit, we as consumers/end users have to get used to the lack of some features (or design flaws) until we're in a position to change them.

[adamz]

The Hermes doesn't even have an audio connector! How difficult do you think that will be to connect to a car stereo? *sigh*

[nosmohtac]

Nothing is, nor will it ever be, perfect. This isn't just for our beloved PPCs - it goes for our cars, food, clothes....even our loved ones. The point I'm trying to make is that there are faults in EVERYTHING - manmade or not. What we have to do is to first UNDERSTAND that a device has shortcomings and decide if it breaks the deal. If it doesn't, we have to learn to live with it. Otherwise, you might as well go back to a basic Nokia cell phone and carry around a Dayplanner. It might not be technologically advanced, but it'll do its job. I for one believe that you're just very hard to please and you might never be satisfied.

I think you may have missed the point. We all understand that nothing is ever going to be perfect, but with the number of Windows Mobile devices already manufactured, we have a very wide range of options when you put all of their features together. I seems that none of these manufacturers are taking notes on what the consumer wants. Palm's Treo 700w is a perfect example. While 32MB of RAM may be plenty in a Palm OS device it isn't enough for many on a Windows Mobile device, not to mention that there are very few Palm OS devices still being sold with only 32MB of RAM and no other Windows Mobile device has only 32MB of RAM.

I understand that 32MB may be enough for most people, and I might have bought a treo 700 had it really had 32MB of RAM. But, as Raphael pointed out after booting, there's only about 15MB of RAM available. I personally don't know how you lasted so long with this device Raphael.

I also agree with all of your other points Raphael, although I haven't been in a position to be a paying beta tester with near the number of devices you have, I'm tired of the inconsistancies and unstandardized offerings out there today. So I sit patiently with a FS Loox 720 paired to a BT phone using DUN at around 115K until one of these manafacturers gets it at least close to right.

I've had the opportunity to play around with many of the devices you mentioned Raphael, and I haven't had the urge to buy any of them because of their shortcomings. The only one I really considered was the Treo 700. I didn't think that 240x240 would be good enough for me after using a vga PPC, but with the screen being considerably smaller, it really looked good. I just couldn't beleive it whaen I saw that only 15MB of RAM was available to the user. Definite deal breaker!

[alese]

[
...But things like A2DP - well this usually isn't advertised and its more or less a nice feature to have for some, but most users probably won't take advantage of it anyways. Now of course it would be great for us if every company just adopted the use of miniUSB plugs for everything, but then companies wouldn't have anything left to sell to us, and you know that they make a lot of money on accessories. Also, there are usually reasons for the choices these companies make - the 200mhz processor in the wizard/prophet for example, was used to give better battery life. As I was saying, a device that is perfect to you might be quite the opposite for me - as companies are trying to appeal to a broad market and trying to make a profit, we as consumers/end users have to get used to the lack of some features (or design flaws) until we're in a position to change them.

A2DP is nice feature, that works quite well if you hack your HTC WM5 device, but it's excluded from every ROM except Qtek 9000 ACU2, why?
I would love to have one standard connector, but that's really hard to expect from all the different manufacturers, but why can't manufacturers at least use the same connector between their own devices?
But my main gripe is that, it became normal for first batches of devices to have beta ROMs (Universal, Atom, not to mention Axim x50 and iPaq 47xx WM5 upgrades...) with both performance problems and a lots of bugs, that only get ironed out in future ROM releases - why?
I know we all have different priorities and wishes and that manufacturers have to make money, but I think we deserve fully working devices without beta test period.

[hamishmacdonald]

I realise the discussion so far has been about Windows Mobile devices in a phone form factor, but I've been using the Acer n311 for a few months now, and I have to say that I'm completely happy with it. There's nothing I bump into on a daily basis and think "Now that's not how that should work!" or "How could they leave that bug in there?"

I guess convergence is where things start to rattle apart. My phone is still a separate device. I do work on my Pocket PC and need a big VGA screen, yet don't want a giant hulk of a machine wrapped around it, so none of the converged devices work for me.

Give it a year or two, I suppose.

[Gex]

Are you opposed to using WM5 Smartphone edition?

I too have a 700w and love it... except the memory issue is bad...its sooo frustrating...

I will be getting my Motorola Q tomorrow :)

[Mick]

While I haven't been through as many devices as Raphael, I agree with him that users continue to pay for the privilege of acting as beta testers. It is only through the efforts of those who combine their collective knowledge in this and other forums that any PocketPC can be made to realize whatever potential it may have.
I continue to use the PPC-6601 I have had for over a year, simply because I don't see anything that is now available as being an improvement. As Raphael pointed out, the Treo 700w is memory-deficient. Even with the 6601, I sometimes run into memory problems when I am streaming music from internet radio through PocketPlayer to my Plantronics BT stereo headset, while downloading email and browsing the web.
While I must admit I have yet to try a WM5 device, the many threads on various forums suggest that they all have problems--whether it's a DSOD, lack of memory, insufficient CPU power, or crippled BT.
While I can understand the concern about battery power, it seems to me that it would be fairly simple for manufacturers to give users the option to decide what trade-offs should be made between extending battery life and maximizing performance--as I recall, a few were doing exactly that a few years ago.
Mick

[Deus]

Right now I am completely happy with my X50v but Sprint will be getting the 700p soon and I am planning to leave the PPC world behind me after many years of supporting it so. I am ready for a convergence device and one I will use more for work. To be honest I still, after almost a decade do not have confidence in the Windows mobile platforms. Don't get me wrong I have fun with it but now that I need something reliable...well...my views are changing.

Now first I am not a Palm fanboy and I have never owned a Palm so I may be back before I know it. But what would you say about the 700p? No fanboys please! Honestly your opinion on it for business use.

[srayls]

so u decided to go with the 6700? I to have a 6700, my first PPC, and was wondering what program u use for ur email? I am currently using outlook on my ppc and wireless sync...ofcourse this is how verizon set me up but I get a lot of HTML emails and they are not supported by outlook. do u use another program for emails? help...lol I'm a visual person and like my HTML mail...

[Jeff Song]

Nothing is, nor will it ever be, perfect. This isn't just for our beloved PPCs - it goes for our cars, food, clothes....even our loved ones. The point I'm trying to make is that there are faults in EVERYTHING - manmade or not. What we have to do is to first UNDERSTAND that a device has shortcomings and decide if it breaks the deal. If it doesn't, we have to learn to live with it. Otherwise, you might as well go back to a basic Nokia cell phone and carry around a Dayplanner. It might not be technologically advanced, but it'll do its job. I for one believe that you're just very hard to please and you might never be satisfied.

I think you may have missed the point. We all understand that nothing is ever going to be perfect, but with the number of Windows Mobile devices already manufactured, we have a very wide range of options when you put all of their features together. I seems that none of these manufacturers are taking notes on what the consumer wants. Palm's Treo 700w is a perfect example. While 32MB of RAM may be plenty in a Palm OS device it isn't enough for many on a Windows Mobile device, not to mention that there are very few Palm OS devices still being sold with only 32MB of RAM and no other Windows Mobile device has only 32MB of RAM.

I understand that 32MB may be enough for most people, and I might have bought a treo 700 had it really had 32MB of RAM. But, as Raphael pointed out after booting, there's only about 15MB of RAM available. I personally don't know how you lasted so long with this device Raphael.

I also agree with all of your other points Raphael, although I haven't been in a position to be a paying beta tester with near the number of devices you have, I'm tired of the inconsistancies and unstandardized offerings out there today. So I sit patiently with a FS Loox 720 paired to a BT phone using DUN at around 115K until one of these manafacturers gets it at least close to right.

I've had the opportunity to play around with many of the devices you mentioned Raphael, and I haven't had the urge to buy any of them because of their shortcomings. The only one I really considered was the Treo 700. I didn't think that 240x240 would be good enough for me after using a vga PPC, but with the screen being considerably smaller, it really looked good. I just couldn't beleive it whaen I saw that only 15MB of RAM was available to the user. Definite deal breaker!

Well, lets see. On the CDMA side, we have the 6700 that does a lot of what we want - standard USB, BT, wifi, EVDO, strong intel processor, etc. Seems to me that the only thing that they really don't have is a VGA screen, something that is probably far too cost ineffective right now for the general consumers. You seem to have misunderstood me as well - a lot of these devices are just fine for the majority of people. Sure, everyone could include 128mb of RAM, a miniSD + SD slot, GPS, wifi, BT 2.0, a 3.0" VGA screen, HSDPA/UMTS, quadband GSM/EDGE, etc. etc. but then you've just priced yourself out of the market. The 8125 is the device I'm currently using and I have personally helped half a dozen people (at least) get one too, and the majority of them are quite happy with the device. So saying that manufacturers continue to miss the mark....well maybe to you and Raphael, but to the majority, it seems like they did fairly well.

After trying out many different devices, I've found the 8125 to be a great device. The only thing that I've noticed is that higher bitrate videos struggle, but considering that videos encoded for the 8125 work fine, I really don't see a problem with the 200mhz processor, everyday useage is fine. So for me and many others, current offerings are more than just acceptable - they're better than "good enough"

[Jeff Song]

[
...But things like A2DP - well this usually isn't advertised and its more or less a nice feature to have for some, but most users probably won't take advantage of it anyways. Now of course it would be great for us if every company just adopted the use of miniUSB plugs for everything, but then companies wouldn't have anything left to sell to us, and you know that they make a lot of money on accessories. Also, there are usually reasons for the choices these companies make - the 200mhz processor in the wizard/prophet for example, was used to give better battery life. As I was saying, a device that is perfect to you might be quite the opposite for me - as companies are trying to appeal to a broad market and trying to make a profit, we as consumers/end users have to get used to the lack of some features (or design flaws) until we're in a position to change them.

A2DP is nice feature, that works quite well if you hack your HTC WM5 device, but it's excluded from every ROM except Qtek 9000 ACU2, why?
I would love to have one standard connector, but that's really hard to expect from all the different manufacturers, but why can't manufacturers at least use the same connector between their own devices?
But my main gripe is that, it became normal for first batches of devices to have beta ROMs (Universal, Atom, not to mention Axim x50 and iPaq 47xx WM5 upgrades...) with both performance problems and a lots of bugs, that only get ironed out in future ROM releases - why?
I know we all have different priorities and wishes and that manufacturers have to make money, but I think we deserve fully working devices without beta test period.
I'm not quite sure why everyone says we're beta testers. I can see that the majority of those active on forums will hack their devices and such, but I don't see the general populace really having a need to.

Its all about profit and revenue growth for companies - if you can keep reusing your old accessories, why upgrade? And I'm sure that companies that manufacture memory cards also have some influence on companies liek HTC to "upgrade" flash memory slots. These things are still in their infancy, but once we see wider adaptation, I think we'll see more standardization within each manufacturer's parts. remember too that there may be some limitations that we don't know about that causes these certain changes.

[jickbahtech]

With all due respect importluva I couldn't disagree more. I think it speaks volumes that if a person can't find help for a problem within a day or two they will return that item (what was that study that came out recently, something like 30 minutes is the average time people will attemt to troubleshoot), and I think it's mostly forums like these where people eventually turn for help.
And yes if you go to a gearhead site I'm sure you will find a lot of people experimenting with these devices, but most of the time it's people just trying to get them to work the way they're supposed to.
The 6700 Forums over at PDAPhoneHome are a perfect example of this. I've had my 6700 for a month now, and it's ALMOST to the point where I can rely on it. DSOD, time out issues, flight mode issues, connectivity problems, calls not being received timely, bloatware that can't be removed, and the stick of it is that this is a properly functioning unit. THESE ARE BETA RELEASE PROBLEMS! Without my forums, I would've given up and gone back to my Nokia/iPaq combo.
Couple that with a LOT of consumer misrepresentation, and there are going to be a lot of problems. I mean, try and explain to someone why they can use BT Headphones with an iPod (with an adapter), but can't use them with the BT built into their $600 PPC/Phone. Oh sure, WE understand why, but start explaining that to a non-tech-savvy person, and watch their eyes glaze. It's totally not their fault either because THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE TO KNOW THAT! It should "just work".

I'm all for these companies making profits (I WANT/NEED them to keep making gadgets), but right now it doesn't feel like we're getting better devices out of it, and it REALLY doesn't feel like they are listening to the problems we are having.

[DaleReeck]

The DSOD is particularly galling. I can't believe that the bug ever got out of testing let alone continuing to be around to this day :evil:

Someone at Audiovox/UTMS (supposedly) said that they couldn't reproduce the problem. Unbelievable. There's a whole forum of people at pdaphonehome that can reproduce the problem.

[Janak Parekh]

Raphael, sorry to hear about your trouble. :(

Strangely enough, the amount of RAM isn't an issue for me. 8O However, I think our use cases might be different. While I do multitask (and often), I tend to use it in a very limited context -- between 2 or 3 programs. As the Palm's 15MB tends to allow me to run up to 6 or 7 without losing any, I generally don't have the problem you do. It may also help that I have no need for voice command -- the Today screen smart dial is far more convenient for me. (The fact that I don't frequently talk on the cell phone while driving may affect this too.)

A bigger issue is the fact that I continue to experience memory leaks, ultimately. I'm not sure if that's Palm's, Microsoft's, or a third-party developer's fault. 15MB does make memory leaks pretty frustrating. But for now, I'm sticking with the 700w.

--janak

[isajoo]

so... when you guys say... 15 megs free... u mean to say after the startup of your device you have 15megs free? isnt wm5 use rom to store all programs? i am using wm2003 and i have 64 megs of ram of which i have 62 megs useable. but my startup programs use up around 12-14 megs and the storage memory uses around 8-10 megs.... so i am left with only 40 megs free which is just perfect to have a couple of programs running in the background plus surfing the web. so 15 megs should actually be illegal to have on any device. my device would not even finish starting up. i saw a new hp 1900 pda with 32megs ram also running wm5. is this really right? all i can see people using these devices for is either a dayplanner/organizer or a paper weight.

[cuteseal]

I totally agree with you, and "paying beta tester" is spot on.

I converged devices have got some way to go yet. I gave up a perfectly good HP 4150 for a HP 6300 series and was utterly disappointed. Slow, buggy bluetooth headset implementation, slow, bulky, did i mention slow? I think I was truly happy with a 4150 - they had almost everything right (although it's probably dated these days).

I couldn't put up with it any longer, ebayed the 6300 and went back to a Tungsten T and a Nokia 6230. Simple, sweet, and both do their respective jobs well.

[alese]

I'm not quite sure why everyone says we're beta testers. I can see that the majority of those active on forums will hack their devices and such, but I don't see the general populace really having a need to.

Its all about profit and revenue growth for companies - if you can keep reusing your old accessories, why upgrade? And I'm sure that companies that manufacture memory cards also have some influence on companies liek HTC to "upgrade" flash memory slots. These things are still in their infancy, but once we see wider adaptation, I think we'll see more standardization within each manufacturer's parts. remember too that there may be some limitations that we don't know about that causes these certain changes.

If we would hack our devices, just to get some, hidden or extra functionality of no real use to general public out of them, that would not really be and issue, but.

I'm using WM Phone editions for more than 2 years and have used PocketPCs before. While I liked all the devices, and I don't want to switch to something else, I don't really try to "sell" this devices to other "ordinary" users - it's just too frustrating to use/operate them.
My iPaq 3870 - had BT implementation that forced me to soft reset the device probably daily, because of the memory leak problems, something that never happened on my phones with BT.
The machine had spontaneus hard resets that were not due to any special SW installed, it was a ROM "feature", and the list goes on...
I had to be very carefull when looking for BT headset for my HTC Himalaya, because BT stack was so poor it only worked with some headsets. Also I had to upgrade the original ROM (something not advisable for "normal" user), to get reliable operation out of the device.
My current HTC Universal, needed ROM upgrade to get visibly better speed and reliability, and A2DP BT profile didn't hurt either...
Similar situation is also with my HTC Wizard, drastic improvement after upgrade of original ROM, including new features like, Push Mail.
Or what about the fact that NO production WM Phone Edition (and I guess WM Smartphone also) that uses (now pretty much standard) MS BT Stack have CallerID feature, something every other BT Phone sold in last few years suports out of the box, and we are talking about cheap dumb phones here.
And of course, there is also special ritual, that I had (and stil have) to do with all my machines since 2002 to make sure reminders and alarms are working reliably, a loong staying feature of all WM devices.
If all this (and more) is not beta testing...

[Phillip Dyson]

Its possible that we're dealing with a lazy QA process or lack or pride in what the vendors put out.

But tend to think that is more about the development teams receiving a lot of pressure in reducing time to market. Anyone who's in software development knows what I'm talking about.

How many times have we heard "just roll it out, we'll patch it later". Its quite different being part of an IT department for an actual business versus just being a software house.

The former is just the opposite, we have users that can reject the product outright. And since they fund the product directly we have no choice but to pursue quality in the first shot..

[jarekt]

Its sad but theres only one conclusion. U cant buy totaly fresh device. I`m using HTC Magician and there`s no problem with it becouse it`s not new on the market. I`d love to change it for Wizard or Universal but I read all complains and I`m still waiting with decision. It`s funny but lack of cash is the only reason that i`m not in love/hate relation with my PPC device :)

BTW. I have to have more tham 32 MB free to feel comfortable with my device. With less than 25 MB memory free i cant use GPS navigation software with mp3 player simultanusely.

[joker]

i like your writing style very much, Raphael.

amen to the last paragraphs!

every day when i feel the same like you do in this article i only wonder who laughs at who. i know i am right with the thoughts how a device has to be and at the same time i also know the manufacturers are doing wrong.

but wondering i do at this point: when no change comes and the deficiencies stay, who is really laughing at whom? do the manufacturers have relations to each other which we will never see? is that the reason why they include a microsd card slot although everyone knows they have to include an sdio card slot?
our words get spread, nobody can claim the manufacturers don't hear us, and still they do what they want.

i think there is nothing else to do than wondering.

[Chairman Clench]

Raphael, sorry to hear about your trouble. :(

Strangely enough, the amount of RAM isn't an issue for me. 8O However, I think our use cases might be different. While I do multitask (and often), I tend to use it in a very limited context -- between 2 or 3 programs. As the Palm's 15MB tends to allow me to run up to 6 or 7 without losing any, I generally don't have the problem you do. It may also help that I have no need for voice command -- the Today screen smart dial is far more convenient for me. (The fact that I don't frequently talk on the cell phone while driving may affect this too.)

A bigger issue is the fact that I continue to experience memory leaks, ultimately. I'm not sure if that's Palm's, Microsoft's, or a third-party developer's fault. 15MB does make memory leaks pretty frustrating. But for now, I'm sticking with the 700w.

--janak

I completely agree, Janak. I have never run into a memory problem with my Treo 700w and I also multitask in a limited fashion. The Treo happens to be a great device and is also the most stable and reliable PPC I have ever used (and I have used 7 of them).

The Treo is not a power user's device... it is one designed for the masses. Sure, more memory, Wi-Fi, etc, is nice to have... personally, I'll take reliability over extra features any day of the week.

The 6700 looks great on paper, but in reality it is neither a very good phone nor a great PDA. I understand there will be compromises with any converged device however, the 6700 makes too many compromises on the phone side. The Treo has a better balance of compromises.

[ntractv]

Concur with Janak and the Chairman. I love this device and I have not had any memory problems. I can run 5 or so apps at one time with no problem.

[Kt3]

You make some excellent points about the lack of maturity of all Windows Mobile devices in general: lack of sufficient hardware with which to do anything sensational. However there's the simple fact that no one ever pressured us into adopting these devices for daily use in the first place, we are all educated consumers with access to a plethora of information and reviews about the devices which we choose to spend our hard earned money on.

Surely there must be something great about Pocket PCs because some people seem to enjoy owning and using them. I have seen my fair share of nuisances with Windows Mobile in the past and am quite familiar with the limitations of this platform, but it still has some advantages which make it more desirable for me to use on a regular basis as opposed to lugging a laptop around.

[Janak Parekh]

so... when you guys say... 15 megs free... u mean to say after the startup of your device you have 15megs free? isnt wm5 use rom to store all programs? i am using wm2003 and i have 64 megs of ram of which i have 62 megs useable.
Memory allocation is completely different than WM2003, so you can't easily compare. On the 700w, there is about 60MB of ROM free and 15MB of RAM free on a hard-reset. Programs and data are installed into ROM (or a storage card), but when they are running they do use up some RAM.

In general, I've been satisfied with the 700w's allocation. The amount of ROM on the 700w is more than devices like the Jasjar, and I find that useful as I install all my apps into ROM now instead of relying on a storage card. The RAM is sufficient for my daily tasks. Apart from the memory leak, which I described earlier but haven't had time to track down, the only other major problem is that PIE is a hog, and can use up memory for complex or very large webpages. I've now switched to using Opera for those webpages; it's a bigger application, but has better memory management.

But as Chairman Clench said, it ultimately depends on what you use the device for. I use it primarily for text messaging/email, as a phone, as an ebook reader, and for a few games and the occasional websurfing. The 700w is clearly not a power PDA device, what with its small screen, but for my use cases it's very good. As I mentioned in my review (http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/articles.php?action=expand,47663), its one-handedness beats nearly every other Pocket PC phone on the market, and that's an important consideration for me as I tend to walk around in NYC and need to be able to use a phone with one hand.

--janak

[Janak Parekh]

I'm using WM Phone editions for more than 2 years and have used PocketPCs before. While I liked all the devices, and I don't want to switch to something else, I don't really try to "sell" this devices to other "ordinary" users - it's just too frustrating to use/operate them.
Well, that's why Microsoft has the Smartphone platform. I do strongly believe that someone can operate the Smartphone out-of-the-box with little additional training. Most Pocket PCs (and Palm Treos, for that matter) require a little more intuition and/or knowledge. Of course, as you mention, that is predicated on the stability of the platform.

My iPaq 3870 - had BT implementation that forced me to soft reset the device probably daily, because of the memory leak problems, something that never happened on my phones with BT.
Now, quoting the 3870 isn't a good example. It was the first Pocket PC on the market with Bluetooth, and had a famously bad Bluetooth implementation, that we repeatedly ranted about right here on PPCT.

Or what about the fact that NO production WM Phone Edition (and I guess WM Smartphone also) that uses (now pretty much standard) MS BT Stack have CallerID feature, something every other BT Phone sold in last few years suports out of the box, and we are talking about cheap dumb phones here.
This may be a geographical thing -- caller-ID-enabled Bluetooth headsets are extraordinarily rare here. As car integration increases, that may increase its availability, but yes, Microsoft still needs to do quite some work on their BT stack (can anyone say A2DP?).

And of course, there is also special ritual, that I had (and stil have) to do with all my machines since 2002 to make sure reminders and alarms are working reliably, a loong staying feature of all WM devices.
Yeah, this is the one utterly inexcusable stupidity of Pocket PCs. Interestingly, I never, ever had the problem on Smartphones. I just don't get Microsoft on this one. (It is worth mentioning that add-on software can affect alarm stability, but that shouldn't be allowed to happen.)

--janak

[jimtravis]

Thank you for writing an article that summarized my feeling exactly. I have purchased way too many Palm OS and Win Mobile devices to admit the exact number. If I did relate the number, you would place me in a 12 step program for gadget addicts. I used to be a Palm OS champion, but the T5 changed that. I had used Win Mobile devices, but the Palm OS devices were my favorite daily use devices until the T5. The T5 never should have been released - too buggy, too unstable, and many apps would not run. The TX is a nice device, but I had switched to the Win Mobile platform as my daily device after the terrible T5 experience (I do own a TX).

My latest PDA/phone is the Treo 700w. This Treo could have been excellent if someone at Palm had not decided (probably saved a couple $ per device) to choke it with only 32 MB of Ram, of which you are lucky if you have 13 MB after booting. Combine the limited RAM with memory leaks, and you have basically eliminated one of the best features of Win Mobile 5, multitasking. With version 1.02 of the ROM, you could multitask fairly well. Version 1.10 of ROM increased the memory threshold for closing apps from 2 to 5 MB; this basically ended multitasking, particulaly with memory hogs such as IE. My favorite memory upgrade vendor has not been able to get the OS to recognize any increased RAM yet.

I also have a Dell Axim x51v, and it is fantastic. 256 ROM of which about 190 MB is available to user; 64 MB RAM of which 30+ is actually available to the user. That is what the Treo should have been supplied with, particualry at the price point they are charging. Multitasking is a pleasure with the x51v.

The lack of built-in WiFi at this price point is unwarranted as well. At least with the 700w, the drivers for Palm's WiFi card are built-in; my understanding is there are no WiFi drivers for the 700p. Many have speculated that WiFi is not necessary with EvDO. EvDO is great, and I have a strong signal 99% of the time. I live in a big city, not all Treo users do. WiFi is much faster than 1x. Also, because I have so many handheld devices, I use NAS as a central data storage area. I can not access the NAS via EvDO, WiFi or bluetooth is needed. Oh wait a minute, Palm/ Verizon do not support the DUN or LAN bluetooth profiles. So it seems that only WiFi can communicate with the NAS. I won't even get started on the crippliing of the Bluetooth profiles by Palm/Verizon. No excuse!!!

If a vendor releases a clamshell type phone with EvDO like speeds, bluetooth 2.0, and supported DUN and LAN Bluetooth profiles, the Treo is history. I will pay the early termination charge to Verizon. I don't care which carrier offers it (I am carrier agnostic), I would return to the two devices vs. combo device in a minute. That way I could keep the phone in a pant's pocket, and use a VGA device with ample memory, and built-in WiFi (like the x51v) to surf etc. via Bluetooth to the small clamshell phone in the pocket. When I did need to place a voice call, the clamshell design is more comfortable to use than the Treo, or other combo devices.

Thank you again for such a fine article.

[alese]

...
Well, that's why Microsoft has the Smartphone platform. I do strongly believe that someone can operate the Smartphone out-of-the-box with little additional training. Most Pocket PCs (and Palm Treos, for that matter) require a little more intuition and/or knowledge. Of course, as you mention, that is predicated on the stability of the platform.
...

You are right, however at least here, Smartphones are not common, and there is very little choice of different models. Nokia rules here with many different models and I'm sorry to say more features...


...
Now, quoting the 3870 isn't a good example. It was the first Pocket PC on the market with Bluetooth, and had a famously bad Bluetooth implementation, that we repeatedly ranted about right here on PPCT.
...

Well, I know that 3870 was notorious about that, but that's just the point. They released the device that didn't even had beta version of BT stack, but very early alpha, if I'm a little sarcastic.


This may be a geographical thing -- caller-ID-enabled Bluetooth headsets are extraordinarily rare here. As car integration increases, that may increase its availability, but yes, Microsoft still needs to do quite some work on their BT stack (can anyone say A2DP?).
...

Yes, caller ID BT headsets are very rare, but BT car units are becoming more and more popular... But the point here is just that typical cheap BT enabled phone has this (and A2DP too), but an expensive WM device with much more power, memory, expandability and of course real Operating System does not have it (unless you hack it on), sad...


Yeah, this is the one utterly inexcusable stupidity of Pocket PCs. Interestingly, I never, ever had the problem on Smartphones. I just don't get Microsoft on this one. (It is worth mentioning that add-on software can affect alarm stability, but that shouldn't be allowed to happen.)
...

With couple exceptions on my iPaq, I too did not have this problem. But I have a very strict ritual with all my WM devices that has worked for me until now.

[nategesner]

I recently changed jobs and no longer need a sophisticated calendar/contact/reference machine in my pocket. I was still holding on to my Axim X50v because I listen to a lot of music on it, but now my headphone jack won't work because one of the pins apparently pushed in and won't bounce back. So I've decided to upgrade. I will be selling my X50v and replacing it with a small notebook and a mechanical pencil (too hard to find sharpeners on the go), and my phone plays MP3 music.

I'm tired of trying to find "the perfect device". I look back at the amount of time I've spent trying to get my devices to function properly over the years and see that I probably spent more time than the devices actually saved me. Yes, it's fun to play with and be on the cutting edge of technology. Yes, I am able to show off. But I've also become a slave to the device.

It's time to take off the shackles. I'm FREE!

[epdm2be]

What a bunch of weenies in here...

Raphael is very right to be upset.

And Jon... stop smoking that ****, Raphael never mentioned anything about PPC being better than cellphones. And for all those others who crap-on about "Nothing is, nor will it ever be, perfect."... what a load of cr....

The point that Raphael makes is quite simple. It all boils down to one thing.

Instead of letting a bunch of suits decide for us what we (should) need; they better ASK! But I guess in our comms-devices overloaded world a plain simple verbal communication is way too much for those greedy bastards.

They only care about their stock-profits. They don't build these devices to make our lives better. They make them to make their wallets thicker.

I could go on and even go further with the phrase: That's what you get when it's "made in China" but I won't. Instead I'll explain my own dissapointment in this matter.

My first "PDA" was a Psion. The series 3 and especially the series 5 were tremendously good. If Psion just stuck a colour screen on the 5mx and beefed the cpu to cope with the increased bandwith then that would have been the best pocket computer ever. But alas the greedy suits parted with their money and left Psion to die. Then I bought a Jornada 568. Yeps the one with the dustproblem which also plagued many Ipaqs back then. I sended it 3 times to HP to repair. In the end I just sold it with a major loss because I just couldn't take it anymore. Much later I bought a Toshiba E800. The gorgeous blue-silver brick with the awesome screen and lacklustre battery life. After a few days it screen went black and remained black. The shop refunded me since Toshiba went out o/t business and they wouldn't get a new batch. Then, since I needed some navigation in my car, I bought a navigation bundle with an Asus 620BT. It had immediatly a red dot in the middle o/t screen. Needles to say I find it UNACCEPTIBLE that a device which relies on its (already small) screen for both output and input has missing pixels. In fact I even find this unacceptible with monitors. I think if it's such a damn problem to get NO missing pixels then perfect the technology BEFORE screwing the market. And if that means higher prices or prices not falling down as quick... then so be it! I don't mind paying 50 bucks more to have no broken pixels. In this case the sales departement wouldn't exchange it under warranty so I had to pay for a model with full functioning screen! And then you wonder why I hate these things.

Then the asus... O yeah it was fast. It had CF and bluetooth etc... But after awhile I was so fed up with it's OS. Even though I used it ONLY for navigation with Tom Tom software. No syncing, no games, no agenda, no addressbook... just navigation. I got so fed up with the long waiting time before getting a fix, long reboots, stupid screen-calibration, awkward menu system to get the must basic things done (same as in desktop windwos BTW) that I threw on the ground and (literally) put my foot on it. That was the end of the Asus PDA.

What I do now? Well I've gone back in time. I bought a car with a standard factory-navigation unit. It ain't fancy 3d, switchable voices, night vision blablabla. It's a simple turn-by-turn thing and it works! Always! For the other stuff I bought myself a k750i phone. It also plays games (yep the screen is really tiny), it also sinc the contact list and agenda. It's not as fancy as a PPC but thankgod it doesn't use windows and ALWAYS is ready when it has to be. Am I happy? Well I'm a lot less frustrated than I used to be. Because the tech that I use is perhaps simpler in design and features but it works when I need it. Though my dad who also has a K750i has a severe dust-problem with his phone. Which is odd because my mon who uses my ancient T68i with a missing volume knob has no dust problem at all. A typical case of "made in china"-crap which is plagueing many consumer products these days (mediocre assembly, louzy parts quality, high marging crap with the lifespan of a typical house-fly).

What a wonderfull world.

[cdawkins]

This is my story which includes a couple of Pocket PCs and why I left them.

Ive had a number of devices. My first was the Psion 5 so I wouldnt have to buy a laptop (yeah right, I was naive). Then the original bad boy, the iPaq 3600. But I was carry this around and my mobile. To be honest I wanst using it that much except to show off the mulitmedia stuff. Then the iPaq 2210 using Bluetooth to send SMS from iPaq. Stopped doing that, again two devices.

Then I found my holy grail the imate Jam, small, bigish screen, touch screen, video, audio, camera. Great for site surveys. But the camera was crap, not enough memory and the OS is M$ which needs sh** loads of memory. Great device, crap phone.


I realised that I wanted a good phone so I comppromised and bought a couple of Nokia smartphones, great phones. OK smarts. The N70 had 30MB of RAM free. This is like having 256MB on a PPC. But the small screen and low resolution bugged me.

I longingly looked at the imate sp5, good size, good battery life, hi res screen (if a little Nokia like in size) and I almost bought it. But when I couldnt get GPRS to work on it in the shop I thought better of it. I looked at the KJam but just didnt get on with the keyboard. For some reason I began not to like the *Jam size. The JasJar is just crazy big with crap battery life.

Now I have the Nokia E61. Fatter than the *Jams but much slimmer. Great phone, qwerty keyboard, large (for Nokias) QVGA screen (hence the fat), Wlan, 3g, edge, bluetooth, IR. Connects to Exchange,Blackberry and most other business networks (might actually use this one day ;) and has VoIP functionality. Stable Symbian OS, 70MB of memory free (like having 512MB in a PPC).

I think PPC guys want a great PDA first which can also be a phone. The imates etc fill that need. Some people want a great phone which can also sync with outlook. Thats the smartphones. I think the E61 (so far) has the balance right. Great phone, very good PDA functions including office document editing for word, excel and powerpoint. Of course some would argue that the Multimedia on the PPCs are better, but the Nokias more than hold their own. Actually some tests they actually perform better.

Downsides.....Only one so far. No camera.