HTC Stealing Thunder From RIM BlackBerry 8700

[Ed Hansberry]

<a href="http://www.forbes.com/markets/economy/2006/05/08/rim-t-mobile-0508markets17.html">http://www.forbes.com/markets/economy/2006/05/08/rim-t-mobile-0508markets17.html</a><br /><br /><i>"Despite high hopes for Research In Motion's BlackBerry devices, sales have been disappointing and competition in the smartphone market has been fierce...But despite strong sales of the 8700 at T-Mobile, Research in Motion's gains were offset by strong sales of Taiwan-based High Tech Computer's MDA pocket computer."</i><br /><br />The T-Mobile MDA is the HTC Wizard, known by a variety of names around the world. Mine is called the K-Jam, and most blackberry users that I come in contact with are blown away by what the device does. Part of it stems from the ultra-lame "attachment viewing" the BlackBerry does. Spreadsheets are opened with fixed width columns that can't be altered - at least by the users I am working with, and again, they are just viewers. I wouldn't do a ton of work on my K-Jam, but it is nice knowing I can create or change a spreadsheet and save or send it on to someone else in my department. For users wanting to go beyond basic text email, HTC devices armed with Windows Mobile offer a compelling option. Of course, having Voice Command installed doesn't hurt either. I love it when a call comes in and the name of the caller is announced. :wink: Cingular stores are also seeing strong sales of the 8125, a sibling in the HTC Wizard lineup, and Verizon is showing strong sales of the Treo 700w, another HTC device. Do you think Microsoft and HTC have finally figured out a formula that will stem the growth of RIM?

[Rod3]

I've been using a Treo 700W, but am expecting a Blackberry 8700C any day now. I'll be either getting rid of Verizon, or reducing my use of it extremely. Cingular is offering a reduction on my phone and internet bills, since it is offered by the same company that handles my cable modem, TV, phone, etc. I have found Verizon difficult to deal with; my bill is astronomical, and I don't have a lot of services that I need from them. Such as bluetooth that works with anything other than a headset! Anyhow, I don't think Blackberry is going anywhere any time soon. I may wind up just using my Treo to play games on. :roll:

[paschott]

I also have an HTC Wizard (Cingular 8125). I really like it, but there are a couple of things that I do miss from the Blackberry.

1. Vibrate notification when a new e-mail arrives - this just flat out does not work unless the Wizard is powered on (not in Standby).

2. Alarms? Reading over the HTC Wizard forums @ the XDA Developers site, it seems that alarms are a big problem with this device. Maybe not a big deal during the day, but apparently when the device is in standby overnight, it doesn't process everything completely and alarms for early the next morning don't work. From what I can see, this apparently depends on the device and some claim to have fixed it, but the majority seem to have problems.


On a related note, it would be nice if Cingular was able to update their device even close to the HTC firmware releases. As it is, I was able to download an update from the XDA site to enable push e-mail and a lot of other fixes, but Cingular should really make that available sooner. If someone can pick up an HTC Wizard ROM and modify it to look almost exactly like the Cingular base install within a couple of weeks, Cingular should surely be able to have a team able to put out updates in a couple of weeks. :?


Overall, I agree that this could be a hurting point for Blackberry, especially with some of the free push e-mail services out there right now. Just wish they'd fix some of the basic issues that corporate folks tend to appreciate.

-Pete


ps - any feedback on a good Bluetooth headset to work with the HTC Wizard? The hands-free that comes with the unit is okay, but the wires are really long.

[heybige]

any feedback on a good Bluetooth headset to work with the HTC Wizard? The hands-free that comes with the unit is okay, but the wires are really long.

I just bought the Plantronics Discovery 640. Works great. Might want to check out the updated 645. I've seen it as low as $85 (MSRP is $145).

[SHC]

Seem to have trouble with quotes today - Try PhoneAlarm from pocketmax.net. Gives a vibrating alarm on my JAMin without a problem.

[r@dimus]

Do you think Microsoft and HTC have finally figured out a formula that will stem the growth of RIM?

Until Microsoft can release an enterprise push mail system as tight and secure as RIM's I kind of doubt it. Enterprise sales are what put RIM where they are today simply because of the kind of control you can have over the remote devices via BES. You can't even come close to locking a PPC down compared to the extent that you can lock down a Blackberry.

Not slammin' the PPC here. Just pointing out the facts. Personally, I wish they had developed a similarly secure system as then I would not have to juggle a PPC and a Blackberry.

[Storkman]

Do you think Microsoft and HTC have finally figured out a formula that will stem the growth of RIM?

From what I've heard, RIM is the only one who builds ALL their devices to conform to a high level security clearance spec. Consequently many government departments and government contractors can only use Blackberries. Otherwise security personnel would have to able to differenciate between the ABC Model 123 basic PDA and the ABC Model 123a PDA phone with digital camera, etc.

So while you and I might switch to an HTC - if we can get it for $99 on a cheap plan - there is a larger customer base willing to pay premium $$$ that will keep RIM in the money for quite some time.

[inteller]

Do you think Microsoft and HTC have finally figured out a formula that will stem the growth of RIM?

Until Microsoft can release an enterprise push mail system as tight and secure as RIM's I kind of doubt it.

uh, they already have, its just up to carriers to implement it. MSFP takes care of push email just fine. iJam users can attest to that.

[GadgetDave]

Do you think Microsoft and HTC have finally figured out a formula that will stem the growth of RIM?

Until Microsoft can release an enterprise push mail system as tight and secure as RIM's I kind of doubt it.

uh, they already have, its just up to carriers to implement it. MSFP takes care of push email just fine. iJam users can attest to that.

Not even close. I've been in PPCs since the early days (iPaq, Toshiba e700, XDA, etc. etc), and I still love them for some of the things they can do. But if I had to give an executive a Pocket PC device instead of a BB, I'd quit. The Pocket PC can do far more - not picking on it - but what it does it doesn't do nearly as well. I have gone through the PPC ranks and the BB ranks, from the original 950 "pager" to the current 8700, and they've all been simpler to use and more reliable than any PPC. From an enterprise standpoint, it's far cleaner - it just works. Plus I do the equivalent of "soft-resetting" my blackberry monthly, if even that. It just works.

You give a CFO a PPC that they want to get to work on their home wireless, work wireless (with security), GPRS/EDGE/EV-DO, and you might as well hire a support person to go with them. :)

There's finally more software for the BB out there, and while I'll still champion the PPC, the BB is my daily device.

[Janak Parekh]

Until Microsoft can release an enterprise push mail system as tight and secure as RIM's I kind of doubt it. Enterprise sales are what put RIM where they are today simply because of the kind of control you can have over the remote devices via BES. You can't even come close to locking a PPC down compared to the extent that you can lock down a Blackberry.
Interestingly, there's one twist in this argument: don't RIM products still communicate through RIM's own servers? The one significant security advantage with Direct Push is that the device communicates only with the corporate Exchange server. No middlemen, and everything's SSL encrypted/certified.

I do buy the reliability argument, though. Blackberries' simplicity makes them very reliable at the everyday task they were designed to do: handle email. However, my 700w is the first Pocket PC that I've owned that actually comes close, and that's a huge step up for MS.

--janak

[Janak Parekh]

I also have an HTC Wizard (Cingular 8125). I really like it, but there are a couple of things that I do miss from the Blackberry.

1. Vibrate notification when a new e-mail arrives - this just flat out does not work unless the Wizard is powered on (not in Standby).
It's utterly bizarre that the Wizard has this problem. Every WM5 device I've owned (the JasJar and the 700w in particular) properly vibrates while awake or sleeping as long as you don't leave the Messaging applet on top. In fact, I now use my 700w as my "new mail" notification, as it frequently gets mail faster than my desktop IMAP client. 8O

--janak

[r@dimus]

Until Microsoft can release an enterprise push mail system as tight and secure as RIM's I kind of doubt it.

uh, they already have, its just up to carriers to implement it. MSFP takes care of push email just fine. iJam users can attest to that.

Looks interesting. I googled it a bit to get the jist of the basics, but how does it work on the backend? BES does not require a lot of firewall configuration to work, whereas I've heard that Microsoft's answer requires opening up more holes in the firewall and is a more complex solution.

The other thing that I can see as a concern over MSFP is that it appears to be a security add-on for an otherwise insecure PDA OS. A tacked-on solution, so to speak. Given Microsoft's track record in the security dept this is not an encouraging impression. If that is truly the case, then there is probably a good chance that someone will find a way to back-door the thing and crack it open. To my knowledge, no one has yet cracked a BES policy on a Blackberry.

Then there is Dave's comment on ease of use, which rings very true. You can put a Blackberry in the hands of most non-technical PHB's and they'll figure it out sooner or later with little help. Give them a PPC and you'll probably confuse them.

[r@dimus]

Interestingly, there's one twist in this argument: don't RIM products still communicate through RIM's own servers? The one significant security advantage with Direct Push is that the device communicates only with the corporate Exchange server. No middlemen, and everything's SSL encrypted/certified.

Yes, although I don't think you could say that this is an advantage or a disadvantage. Keeping it all in-house is great if you have an excellent system, great support from the company that made it, and good people to run it well. Loose one of those three and you have an in-house nightmare.

I do buy the reliability argument, though. Blackberries' simplicity makes them very reliable at the everyday task they were designed to do: handle email. However, my 700w is the first Pocket PC that I've owned that actually comes close, and that's a huge step up for MS.

I've found Blackberries to be extremely reliable ever since version 4 of their internal OS. Just like anything other PDA, as long as you don't completely fill their internal memory or install crappy third-party apps on them they are pretty solid.

[DaleReeck]

I agree with GadgetDave. If you are giving an executive a messaging device and want to keep your job, give them a BB. I have a Sprint 6700 and its frustrating. First, there's the Dark Screen of Death where keeping the miniSD card in your device for any length of time causes it to freeze up (blocking all calls and mail) until you remove and reinsert the card again. Another issue is where the device will just lose network connectivity. It looks like you are connected - until you try to use it. And of course if you can't get out, then you also can't get in - i.e., no messaging pushes. A soft reset is the only way to fix it. Also, Sprint's Biz Connect server sometimes just stops pushing email. You have to manually get your mail before it kickstarts it. Bottom line is, at least once a day I have to attend to the messaging piece of the system somehow - either a soft reset or a manual email pull.

All in all, messaging on the 6700 is frustrating. If you don't mind the secuirty issues of going through BB (or if you have your own BB servers), then BB just plain works. I'm not interested in a BB perosnally because I like having just one device and I use my PPC for so many other things. But BB is the way to go if messaging is hella-important.

[Tony Rylow]

I work as a helpdesk rep for a large corporation. We have Blackberries mostly, the user purchases the device, and maintains a contract with either Verizon, T-Mobile, or Cingular out of their own pocket. There are some palms and ppc's as well, but there are very few of those.

As far as our helpdesk goes, these blackberries are a pain to support, because every idiot has one. The calls go like this "Im not getting mail on my blackberry!! i think im a real bigshot!! fix it now!!". Most of the issues we have are with their data connection to the service providers. Nothing that we support, its up to the user to contact their provider to restore that data connection. Thank god all the syncing is done wirelessly now.

There are a few out there that use Treo 600 and 650's. These devices dont get any wireless data from us. We use either Intellisync or mNotes to sync the mail and contacts and all the other crap. Most of the problem with these come from the users who think they know exactly what they are doing, and blow up all the settings, leading to endless syncing problems.

We have even fewer PPC users out there. We never get calls from these people, because they all seem to have a good idea of what the hell is going on, and can usually resolve the problem themselves.

[lanwarrior]

I just dont think WinCE is ready yet to replace the Blackberry. I own the T-Mobile MDA and there are so much problems with it that it's almost not worth it. Check out Howard Forums or XDA Developers site.

I have to change the OS ROM, update the Radio ROM, tweak the registry, etc it's just mind boggling. I don't think an average user (i.e. executives that currently use BB, Salespeople, etc.) can cope with this. And after all this change, my MDA is stillhaving problem getting a signal and the damn memory leak has not been fixed since WM2003!

Until MS can fix all these basic issues, I always recommend BB to other people if they just want email.

[mightymission]

"any feedback on a good Bluetooth headset to work with the HTC Wizard? The hands-free that comes with the unit is okay, but the wires are really long."

I've tried lots of Bluetooth headsets and the best I've found if you're mobile and outdoors alot and have to deal with noise and wind is the

Logitech Mobile Freedom

It's the best headset I've used - hands down.

Here are some features:

Bluetooth 1.2 compatible: No additional phone dongle needed to enjoy 10 meters (30 feet) of range. It also works with your Bluetooth-compatible PC. And Bluetooth v1.2 gives you adaptive frequency hopping, quick connect time, and improved audio quality.

Logitech´s patent-pending WindStop technology: WindStop enables clear conversations in adverse conditions by reducing the disruptive effects of wind noise, including automobile air conditioners.
Comfortable and lightweight: Rotating clip conveniently fits either ear, and lightweight soft foam ear pad stays comfortable even after long talk sessions.

Long-life battery: Enjoy up to 7 hours of talk time or up to 250 hours of standby time between charges.

Multifunction button: Call/answer button on the headset lets you conduct calls without having to pick up the phone. The Logitech Mobile Freedom Headset also supports several features built into many handsets, such as voice dialing, three-way calling, and mute.