PCW Reviews the Samsung Q1 Ultra-Mobile PC

[Darius Wey]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.pcw.co.uk/personal-computer-world/hardware/2155011/samsung-q1-ultra-mobile-pc' target='_blank'>http://www.pcw.co.uk/personal-compu...ultra-mobile-pc</a><br /><br /></div><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/wey-20060503-SamsungQ1.jpg" /><br /><br />In my opinion, the first generation UMPCs don't seem all that special. <a href="http://www.pcw.co.uk/personal-computer-world/hardware/2155011/samsung-q1-ultra-mobile-pc">PCW</a> managed to get some hands-on time with the Samsung Q1, and despite the so-so battery life, processing power, and storage capacity, they still gave it a 4/5 rating. Although I'm still considering a UMPC for my work, I'm definitely going to wait until some of the later generations are released, and in addition, Windows Vista. But what about you? Are any of you planning on doing the same, or instead, jumping on the UMPC bandwagon now by purchasing a first generation model?

[DaleReeck]

You know, its weird but after six years on the PocketPC now, I have found myself reliant on the applications available for that platform. The apps on a full PC aren't that appealing any more. Back then, a full blown PC the size of a PDA would have been killer. But now, going to a PC as my PDA would actually be a step back in terms of applications and functionality.

The mini PC's still have a place, like you said, at work and such. But for every day portabilty use, PPC's are more useful.

[CTSLICK]

I am interested in this but not as a PDA. I am really looking for something small and quiet that I can take to meetings, scribble some notes and mark up some documents. Is that one of the targets here?

I am not convinced the first gen devices are gonna hit the mark nor am I convinced that the first gen devices will generate enough momentum for there to be a second gen. Price point will probably be too high and the "right" technology still seems a few years off.

Sidenote: As a left hander I look at the lay out and realize that the little joystick thingy is gonna stink...tough to use in conjunction with pen input. Maybe one of the manufacturers will be smart enough to design one that can be used rotated 180 degrees.

[Stephen Beesley]

I am interested in this but not as a PDA. I am really looking for something small and quiet that I can take to meetings, scribble some notes and mark up some documents. Is that one of the targets here?

This pretty much describes one of the main uses I can see for these type of devices. Although I use my PPC for this quite a lot, I could certainly do with something with more screen real estate.

I am not convinced the first gen devices are gonna hit the mark nor am I convinced that the first gen devices will generate enough momentum for there to be a second gen. Price point will probably be too high and the "right" technology still seems a few years off.

Price, price, price - I think this is going to be the killer. The first Gen UMPCs that look like being available where I am, in Oz, look like costing as much as a fairly well speced laptop (up to and even over AU$2,000) and about the same as some of the cheaper tablet PCs. Hard to imagine what the incentive would be to go with a UMPC in that situation even if you had the bucks to spend.

I suspect that even if there is a second generation, the price will go up if anything. To be a realist option for me these devices would have to come in somewhere not too far above the cost of a top end PPC device (say, AU$7-800, but definately under AU$1,000) and I just cannot see that happening.

[gt24]

Price is a concern but luckly the article did mention a price, at the top.

From a Google conversion... UK£ 799 = 1,453.94 U.S. dollars

Yeah, I'm not interested in this device anymore. I'll take an older tablet PC (perhaps), a laptop (more likely), or a PDA (most likely) over this device because for that price I would expect a lot more, like an external optical drive included, a keyboard and mouse included, and decent performance. It just seems like a slow, barely noisy, underpowered and overpriced device...

Ah well.

[tmmburke]

I am very skeptical of any device that only has a resolution of 800x480. There are very few applications these days that support such a low resolution (480 that is). It has to be at least 800x600 to be useful. I had this problem with the OQO and ended up putting it into a virtual screen mode to get any application to work with it. THis as a real pain since I was contasntly scrolling up and down to see the display area. I suggest a full-blown Tablet PC like the Motion Computing LS800. It's sligltly bigger than these UMPC devices but has a nice useable display.

[IpaqMan2]

Welcome to Windows CE 1.0

Dosen't anyone see this?
Say all the negativity you want about this, but it's not going to go away.
This is what some people have been wanting from the very beginning at microsoft - a full fledge copy of Windows funning on a very small portable device - or the UMPCs.

Microsoft will keep dumping money into this area until these truely become as usable as any PDA of today, but only a hundred times better. Sure MS has a long way to go - but seeing how this will be another source of large revenue for Microsoft (more full copies of Windows and office vs WM the ryalties of WM only) they will invest in the long term in this area of mobility.

[christak]

I really want to like this, but for the price and capabilities it currently offers I'm not jumping to buy one... I'm guessing the previous post is correct; these things will improve with time... I hope so...
8)

[Nurhisham Hussein]

I'm not sure if this is OT, I just saw something similar that's more palatable in cost if not features:

http://www.pepper.com/products/pepper.html

Interesting that it's running an Intel mobile processor with Linux - a bit like the Sharp devices, but much, much bigger.

[ricksfiona]

I think these machines are going to fly. I have an order in on the Tablet Kiosk. It's $999 and 2lbs. That rocks :rock on dude!:

Since I'll be using this for mostly work, it will work out just fine. The PocketPC is pretty cool, but for my goals, it has too many compromises. And if you want to develop anything for it, there's another system you have to learn to program. Any app you develop for your PC will work for the UMPC. No problem.

Yes, the UMPC is by no means perfect, but I've been waiting for something like this for a long time. DualCor had my business until their reseller taxed an extra $500 for the device, making the DualCor an ultra-premium device. But the device rocks! I'd pay an extra $500 over the Tablet Kiosk for an extra 500MHz AND extra 30 - 60 minutes of battery life. But not $1000.

My Windows Mobile thirst is currently being dealt with by my new T-Mobile SDA. Way cool and for a phone/PDA, will work fine until my Tablet Kiosk arrives in June. Put in a 1GB MiniSD and I now have an iPOD too! But why oh why do they have to put that lame 2.5" headphone jack in there? :evil:

Dang nabbit, when is battery technology going to improve? :evil:

[birick]

I also have been waiting on this design for a long time. I always have a PPC with me, but there are a lot of things you just can't do on that small screen. A full size tablet is good, and the handwriting recognition on them makes input a breeze, but the size and weight become a burden. I personally think this is the perfect mobile device. I will TRY to wait a generation or two before I purchase, but I can't promise that!! :D

[shinysteve]

...But now, going to a PC as my PDA would actually be a step back in terms of applications and functionality.

The mini PC's still have a place, like you said, at work and such. But for every day portabilty use, PPC's are more useful.

Hi DaleReeck.
You have an interesting point. Can I ask if you have a smartphone? If so, what are you doing on a PPC that makes it so useful to you? The only apps I see now as fitting with the PPC platform are video (3.5" screen is good,) VOIP (Processing power and Wifi is good) and maybe navigation. You can't write any docs on a PPC and to me, now that I have a smartphone, most of my PPC uses migrated onto it. I now have a need for good browsing and better input capability. As I don't do much else on my laptop, i'm going to get rid of PPC and the laptop and go for a UMPC. (probably when the battery life goes above 3hrs useability)


Steve / Chippy.

[shinysteve]

I'm not sure if this is OT, I just saw something similar that's more palatable in cost if not features:

http://www.pepper.com/products/pepper.html

Interesting that it's running an Intel mobile processor with Linux - a bit like the Sharp devices, but much, much bigger.

Its an interesting device. If the price was 20% less and if it was a little bit smaller, this could compete nicely with the UMPC devices.
I have a list of comparable devices and specs at the UMPC product portal if you're interested in seeing other ultra-mobile PC's. <a href=http://www.carrypad.com/products> UMPC product list </a>

[Phillip Dyson]

I think the UMPC products and their siblings would be great for point A and point B. But not necessarily for the in-between time.

I just dont see the coinvenience of pulling it out while standing in line at the airport. Or take notes at the mall. Jotting down someone's address at a party.

As for the PepperPad, when I saw it, I immediately thought of home control. That would be great.

[Joff]

I'm not sure if this is OT, I just saw something similar that's more palatable in cost if not features:

http://www.pepper.com/products/pepper.html

Interesting that it's running an Intel mobile processor with Linux - a bit like the Sharp devices, but much, much bigger.

Interresting product, it is not much more expensive than a high-end PPC.
Would be interrsting to know how well it does on the battery side...

Also, intriguing combination of the PXA processor with Linux...
Are our PXA-based PPCs under-powered with WinCE? I feel so :roll:

[Nurhisham Hussein]

I have a list of comparable devices and specs at the UMPC product portal if you're interested in seeing other ultra-mobile PC's. <a href=http://www.carrypad.com/products> UMPC product list </a>

Nice list - I've bookmarked it. I actually have the Vaio U8G, which is a U50 variant.

You can't write any docs on a PPC and to me, now that I have a smartphone, most of my PPC uses migrated onto it.

I actually find it easier to write a doc on a PPC than on a UMPC/mini-tablet - the SIPs are easier to use and far more flexible. HWR by comparison is a pain, especially when plain text is not the only thing you need to set down (ever try to get a backslash recognised through HWR?). The one thing that the UMPC really trumps my PDA would be in handwritten (non-recognised) notetaking - it has more space to write on.

I think the UMPC products and their siblings would be great for point A and point B. But not necessarily for the in-between time.

I think this is a great point, and something I had to find out for myself - much as I like the idea of the UMPC, my PDA is with my 24/7 while my Thinkpad covers onsite work. The current UMPC designs, size advantage not withstanding, are still too cumbersome to use in those tweener times, and a more traditional notebook form factor (with keyboard) is more useful for sit down situations.

[Darius Wey]

I'm not sure if this is OT, I just saw something similar that's more palatable in cost if not features:

http://www.pepper.com/products/pepper.html

Interesting that it's running an Intel mobile processor with Linux - a bit like the Sharp devices, but much, much bigger.

Interresting product, it is not much more expensive than a high-end PPC.
Would be interrsting to know how well it does on the battery side...

It didn't seem to do too well in the reviews: http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=41727

[DaleReeck]

...But now, going to a PC as my PDA would actually be a step back in terms of applications and functionality.

The mini PC's still have a place, like you said, at work and such. But for every day portabilty use, PPC's are more useful.

Hi DaleReeck.
You have an interesting point. Can I ask if you have a smartphone? If so, what are you doing on a PPC that makes it so useful to you? The only apps I see now as fitting with the PPC platform are video (3.5" screen is good,) VOIP (Processing power and Wifi is good) and maybe navigation. You can't write any docs on a PPC and to me, now that I have a smartphone, most of my PPC uses migrated onto it. I now have a need for good browsing and better input capability. As I don't do much else on my laptop, i'm going to get rid of PPC and the laptop and go for a UMPC. (probably when the battery life goes above 3hrs useability)


Steve / Chippy.

I have a Sprint 6700 currently. I find that the wireless capabilities are most useful. eMail, quick web browsing and news gathering applications (e.g., Pocket Express) are my biggest used apps. Second, data reference capabilities of the device are next. Whether its Outlook data (calendar, contacts, tasks, notes), eWallets, money tracking or keeping my two 400 disc DVD changers catalogued with SprintDB, I reference a lot of data with it.

Third, games. I like quick games, word games, logic games, that sort of thing. I love flight sims and sports sims too (Falcon 4, Out of the Park Baseball) and a PC is still needed for that. But for some time killing in a doctor's office, Scrabbkle or Yahtzee will work for me.

Fourth, music, audio books and video player capability. I don't need an iPod. And I can get a 2 hour movie in WMV format done to a good quality in a 200MB file. Plus, SlingBox Mobile works surprisingly well, even over EVDO.

While a PC/notebook can do all those above things too, the 6700 can do them smaller and faster. Faster at least in terms of tuning the device on and getting a quick response. Plus, the 6700 is my phone. No extra phone to carry or having to deal with bluetooth connections for data connectivity.

The notebook/PC is still huge. Especially for extended work - heavy internet browsing and working with data (as opposed to a PPC which meerly references the data). Advanced games and simulations too. But in those cases, I am sitting down in front of a 25 inch widescreen monitor, soda in hand, doing work or playing. But its not a rig I would want to walk down a store aisle with to check out a bank acount of mine :)

And even a smaller device like these new miniPC's is not ideal for me. I had a JasJar a while back and it was difficult to use when not sitting down because I was paranoid about dropping this rather large and expensive device. These new miniPC's are even bigger (slightly) and more fragile. Plus, unlike my 6700, I don't have insurance to get a free repacement if it breaks.

While the miniPC's are too big and traditional Smartphones too small (though that upcoming Motorola Q looks interesting), a PDA the size of a 6700 or Treo seems just about right.

Oh, by the way, I also use the 6700 for mapping and have a bluetooth GPS device. But about a year ago, I invested in a Pioneer AVIC N2 Navigation system. Nav, TV, DVD/CD, AM/FM/XM Radio, traffic info integration right into the map system, voice activation, rear view camera, vehicle dynamics all built into your car's console, no wires visible. Once you experinece that rig, you never will go back to a PDA nav system :D

[bkerrins]

I think the 2nd or 3rd generation on this will be what I'm waiting for. Someone said it earlier, I really want to like this but it just isn't fully baked. I definitely want full MS applications, not excel and word lite. It most certainly will require GPS for me. I want to be able to use it equally between work and home which means being able to travel with it and take good notes during meetings without having to carry a full scall notebook around. I think ebooks will be much improved on this. I love my PPC but that's just not a comfortable screen for reading on.

[Jason Lee]

I am kind of in the same boat as Dale. My k-jam does what i need it to do and a lot faster.
I have a tablet pc. When i first got it i carried it around everywhere at work. I work in IT and am running around on support calls all the time. Turns out that the more i tried to use the tablet pc at work the more i realized my pocket pc did it better.
I need to open excel to get a product serial # to install it. The ppc is faster.
I need to have get may email while out and about. The ppc is faster (direct push.)
i need to remote desktop back to a server. The ppc is faster to get connected but sometimes the extra screen space on the tablet might be nice. but i can still do it with only the ppc.
i need to see my next appointment. ppc is way faster.
I need to make a task off my list or add a new one. the ppc is faster.
I buy lunch with my credit card and write the transaction down. the ppc is faster thanks to spb finance. :) i don't even do finances on the desktop only on my ppc.
make a phone call, take a picture of something cool or funny, listen to music or watch that tv show i recorded last weekend, play a short game to pass some time, read a book, read ppc thoughts and respond to this thread... I do almost all my email and web browsing from my ppc. especially when i am at home becuase i still have dialup.. it is way faster to not have to wait for the pc to boot then dial up and check a site. besides i can instantly turn the ppc off and shove it in my pocket to do something else the go back to it when i need it.
The UMPC will be a step back for me in all of these respects. The only reason i use my tablet pc so much is that it will play world of warcraft. ;)

For me a ppc meets my mobile computing needs better than a "real" computer. Now if i could get an UMPC that would play world of warcraft?? yeah, i'd get one. hehe..
If i am going to carry a "real" computer around with me it needs to have the functionality of a "real" computer. ie, 3D graphics card, lots of ram and processor power... I need it to be a real compuer. Having another under powerd computer isn't really going to help me very much. I learned that from my work tablet pc. I know i am expecting too much but an UMPC would have to be able to be my primary pc. I already have a mobile pc.

Just my thoughts about it. Not saying that i wouldn't love to have one to play with. :lol:

[DaleReeck]

I think the 2nd or 3rd generation on this will be what I'm waiting for. Someone said it earlier, I really want to like this but it just isn't fully baked. I definitely want full MS applications, not excel and word lite. It most certainly will require GPS for me. I want to be able to use it equally between work and home which means being able to travel with it and take good notes during meetings without having to carry a full scall notebook around. I think ebooks will be much improved on this. I love my PPC but that's just not a comfortable screen for reading on.

Personally, I think the Word/Excel document thing is over-rated. While apps like Pocket Excel and Pocket Word (as well as stuff like TextMaker and PlanMaker) are great for quick viewing these files as reference or making a minor change, does anyone really spend a lot of time actually creating and working on these docs? Not on a 3.5 or even 7 inch screen. That's a job for the desktop computer. So having full versions of these apps with you on the road isn't as critical IMO.

I think I like the idea of something similar to the OQO's. A miniPC that you can use on the road as a "PDA" or plug it into a base system with a full keyboard, monitor and mouse for the full desktop experience. But both the OQOs and these UMPC's will need to have a lot more power than they currently have.

[shinysteve]

...But now, going to a PC as my PDA would actually be a step back in terms of applications and functionality.

The mini PC's still have a place, like you said, at work and such. But for every day portabilty use, PPC's are more useful.

Hi DaleReeck.
You have an interesting point. Can I ask if you have a smartphone?

I have a Sprint 6700 currently.

OK. You're a PDA phone user.
Yup they are a really good size you're right. Trouble is, i've never been able to carry such a big device around 24/7 with me. The most I can handle is a candybar format (I have the Nokia 6280 slider) which i'm happy to carry around on my belt or in my pocket. I just can't see myself having anything bigger with me all the time.
When that's the case, you find yourself with a small phone (used as PIM, Camera, Videocam, MP3 player and data gateway) and then, when you want to surf, you find that a 320x240 screen works only for WAP pages and nothing else. Also, the small screen and low power processor doesnt permit you to watch videos. So in summary:

- if you can carry something with a 3.5" screen 24x7, you've probably covered 90% of your mobile activites.

- If you can only carry a 2" screen, then you need something else for browsing, watching videos and note-input. That something else can either be a laptop or a mini-pc and the mini-pc/umpc satifies perfectly the need for the extra capability meaning I can throw away both my pocket PC and my laptop.

Regards
Steve.

[shinysteve]

I definitely want full MS applications, not excel and word lite.

Hi Bkerrins.
Why do you want full MS apps then. Is it becuase you associate them with a big screen. Is it becuase you want to write documents in the 'native' Word format. Or is it becuase you actually use all the extra features of Word over pocket word? WOuld pocket word running on 800x640 with the ability to save in the native format be enough for you?

The reason I ask is becuase, when Microsoft specified that the UMPC would have to run XP and Vista, they committed themselves to a very dificult hardware specification. To run full XP, you need 512MB ram, 1Ghz processor, 1Gb of disk space for the OS and in some cases (namely Vista) you might need to use 3D graphics hardware just for the GUI!! Its a high-end hardware spec for a mobile device. This is the reason we are seeing big UMPC's that have huge cases and heat dissipation challenges. Heat dissipation costs a lot of money to resolve (more expensive components) and hence the high cost of these devices.
By dropping the software requirements (say to an optimised version of XP, or reduced linux, or embedded version) you could drop the procssor requirements, memory requirements and just drop a 2Gb flash disk in. Price and thermodynamic issues would be more managable.

Sure in two years, technology will have advanced. Maybe thats what MS is banking on. My guess is though that they've got until Christmas to capture the publics immagination.

Sorry for the long post. Its my pet subject!!!

Regards
Steve.

[thunderbass]

Sorry, this is just not going to work for me, cool as it looks. As has already been mentioned, it’s way to small to do serious work on as you would on a desktop or a laptop, and it’s way too big to clip on your belt and take with you wherever you go. As for me, I take my PPC with me everywhere I go, and if I forget to grab it, I go back and get it. I use it at work, at play, on some street corner when I need to look a up a bus schedule, you name it.

With all this talk of moving away from WM to something else, I’m very frustrated. And no, the converged devices all leave me a little cold, with their limited processor, memory, small screen, and who knows what disabled by controlling cell providers. Is just a regular PPC with a standard size screen, decent processor, etc. really too much to ask anymore? :|

[shinysteve]

As for me, I take my PPC with me everywhere I go, and if I forget to grab it, I go back and get it. I use it at work, at play, on some street corner when I need to look a up a bus schedule, you name it. |

Hi Thunderbass.
You're another person happy to take a PPC-sized device with you everywhere. My wife is the same. But me, and a lot of other people I know either don't have big enough pockets or don't want to clip such a big device on the belt. I've spoken to a lot of people about this. Most techies are happy to carry something bigger with them. Most non-techies just want a small smartphone that they can slip in the pocket or wear inconspicuosly on the belt.

And thats probably where this 'lifestyle' UMPC device is aimed at. At the moment its too expensive sure but lets face it, if you had a device specification in-hand, a number of manufacturers ready to build one and marketeers that say 'release it 6 months early even if it's slightly out of spec - the techies, journalists, software houses and rich kids will all buy one anyway.' you'd probably do the same!

In a year, when the case sizes come down, the quality of design goes up, the economies of scale come into play, the market becomes more aware, software gets optimised, accessories become available, reviews get better and there's more competition, there'l be a lot of non-techies that will suddenly be interested.

2nd PC for the home, kids, wife, car, lounge, etc etc. A totaly new market and again, thats what I think they're aiming at here.

Oh ****. Long post again. Sorry!

Regards
Steve

[Kadegboye]

Like many people have mentioned, I cannot see myself carrying any UMPC device for two reasons. In the first place, it is too big and indeed, I frown at PPCP that is a bit larger than my XDA II not to mention anything bigger. Secondly, it is too expensive and indeed, I would prefer to carry a Laptop which can be cheaper but with added advantages than a UMPC. As PPCP continue to advance in functionality, memory and reduction in size, PPCP will continue to be my preferred device.
Kay

[isajoo]

what would make this sell and more cool is a flexable screen/unit that folds in half and hense u have a 3.5" to 4" umpc with a 7" screen when u unfold it. i am sure the technology is out there. then i will put my order in for a umpc and give up on standalone ppcs. then its worth the $1000's for this device.

[Stephen Beesley]

In a year, when ... the economies of scale come into play...

As much as I would love to believe that this is what will happen I just cannot see it.

Look at the Pocket PC - even after all these years a top of the range Pocket PC is still going to set you back about $6000 -$700 (Australian dollars that is) which is pretty much the same as it was 5 years ago.

I suspect that the same will happen to the UMPC - even if it does take off and economies of scale do have a chance to kick in then each generation is going to introduce more and more 'stuff' that will continue to keep the prices high.

[Joff]

[quote="Joff"][quote=hishamh]It didn't seem to do too well in the reviews: http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=41727

Thanks Darius for the info. 2-3 hours battery life is definitely NOT sufficient. And missing support for 'common files' like pdf and word docs is a definite let-down :(

It sounds like there are quite a few of us on this forum waiting for a 'true' pocket PC, at the right price of course :D
UMPC looks promissing but current models don't achieve the objectives set by the UMPC vision. I guess it is only a matter of time...

Cheers!

[DaleReeck]

[quote=Joff][quote=hishamh]It didn't seem to do too well in the reviews: http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=41727

Thanks Darius for the info. 2-3 hours battery life is definitely NOT sufficient. And missing support for 'common files' like pdf and word docs is a definite let-down :(

It sounds like there are quite a few of us on this forum waiting for a 'true' pocket PC, at the right price of course :D
UMPC looks promissing but current models don't achieve the objectives set by the UMPC vision. I guess it is only a matter of time...

Cheers!

Actually, not too many stock PPC's will last longer than three continuous hours on one battery charge. So I don't really see the UMPC being any worse.