Farewell Dell?

[Darius Wey]

<div class='os_post_top_link'><a href='http://www.aximsite.com/boards/showthread.php?t=124231' target='_blank'>http://www.aximsite.com/boards/show...ad.php?t=124231</a><br /><br /></div><i>"I have been very reluctant to accept facts and rumors presented that lead to the Dell Axim's death. There have been many reports of business and Dell Sales rep discussing the death. One of the companies had an employee make it over to Aximsite armed with info given to them by their Dell Sales rep. Shortly after he published it, some official from that company franticly asked me to remove these posts from Aximsite. That incident should have opened my eyes to the fact that these rumors had substance."</i><br /><br /><img src="http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/images/web/2003/wey-20060419-Dell.jpg" /><br /><br />Fellow Mobile Devices MVP and <a href="http://www.aximsite.com/">Aximsite</a> owner, Chris Leckness, spotted a post at <a href="http://www.pdalive.com/showarticle.php?threadid=10867">PDA Live</a> that may not sit well with all you Axim owners and fans out there. According to a <a href="http://dl.tv/blogs/digitallifetv/default.aspx">DL.TV show</a> that aired last week, Dell may soon be retiring (or has already retired?) from PDA-based R&amp;D. If this is fact, not fiction, then where does Dell go from here? Based on little market experience with converged devices, there is little to suggest that Dell will move from standalone PDAs to phone-enabled PDAs and smartphones. Instead, there is a chance that they may simply refocus their efforts away from mobile devices and stick to what they do best - that is, catering for homes and businesses with their fantastic line of desktops, notebooks, servers, TVs and monitors.<br /><br />Remember, it's all rumours at the moment, but if indeed the day comes when Dell announces the death of the Axim line, what will be running through your mind?

[azhiker]

Well, my first PDA was a Toshiba E-310 and I thought I would upgrade it to their new model, that's when Toshiba stopped selling in the US and apparently got out of the market.

So I went with the Axim X-50 and figured I would upgrade to a new Axim in a few years. Now it seems Axim will be no longer.

When I read about the Treo 700 compared to my X-50, I will do without the phone portion for the better processors, RAM, graphics chip and VGA screen of the X-50V.

Just when things seemed to be getting better, the PDA is becoming a dinosaur. Smart phones seem the future for handheld technology. Bah humbug!

Is it time to start the conspiracy theories? :twisted:

[Phillip Dyson]

My bet is that if they are leaving the PDA market, then they're investigating the UMPC arena.

[tnelson2000]

I agree that the stand-alone PPC will probably be replaced by the UMPC. After all, if we could upgrade our PPCs to WinXP wouldn't we all jump in and do it!? I am sure there will be size, power, and speed issues at first, but in the long run, my dream is to have a true full Windows PC in my pocket.

[Foo Fighter]

I've been predicting this would come for two years now. The PDA sector is a dying market, so it makes little sense to Dell and HP to continue supporting this space. Palm will eventually follow suit as well.

Any company still building old school handhelds has no future in todays market.

[Paul Martin]

Well, I've been hoping to replace my aging Jornada. I was considering getting an Axim. Now, I'm not sure. Of course, if Dell has some great blow-out sales at the end...might be a good time. It would fit my buying pattern of my Compaq C140, my Philips Nino, my Jornada, hmmm...I'm sensing a trend here. :mrgreen:

[OneAngryDwarf]

If this true I will be in mourning. I will have to wear all black. I have an Axim X51 and unless my knowledge is incomplete I don't think there is truly any comparable PPC's at a similar price point, size and feature set.
And no I don't want full Windows in my pocket. Those UMPC's don't even come close to the pocket size of a PPC. Even if they did,Windows was designed to be used w/ a mouse, keyboard and full screen and would be a pain I the butt to use in a small sized device w/ a pen. Try using terminal services on your PPC and you'll get an idea of what I'm talking about.
My last hope is for Apple to create a Newtonesque iPod which is inevitable as devices converge and the iPod becomes more powerful

[Timothy Rapson]

I have waited and waited for a best price on an Axim. I was ready to buy three months ago, but was not willing to pay more than $300 for an x51v or $200 for an entry level Axim. With comparable Palm TX going for less than $250, I simply not willing to spend more so much more for an Axim than others paid late last year when Dell sold x51vs quite often for less than $300.
So, last week I got a Toshiba e800. I have twice the RAM of any Axim and a larger VGA screen. I don't need wifi and think WM 2003SE is more reliable than WM 2005. So far it seems very stable and the screen is the most georgeous display I have ever seen on any device, desktop-laptop-or PDA.
I didn't want an orphan model and would have bought a foreign Loox or Fujitsu with camera if I could have gotten a good price. I also looked at HP RX3715, but could not get a good price on one.
I called Dell three times to dicker on price (did you know you can just call and ask and they will give you a better price than even the sale price listed on their web site?) and typed in codes several times (often they didn't work at all, but even if they did I never got to those prices I was willing to pay), but Dell was not competitive.
So, I was happy when Geeks ran these Toshibas for $259 last week.
So long Dell. There were some real good times for you in this market, but it looks like it is over. Wonder who if anyone will offer PDAs in volume any more?

[makic]

I just got my wife an x51v last week. I think that it is a great device and I will be sorry to see them leave the market if this is final.

[mv]

Why in the world dell would do that? PDA´s are not dinosaurs! i still love my iPAQ. I know my next iPAQ will be a phone/Pda combo, but it will be still an iPAQ! 8O

[drrichard]

I purchased a x51v just a couple of months ago. It's a great piece, but I'll sell it for $199. to the first taker. Call me 951 833 8034. I'll get a Motorola Q.

[kimylawson]

If this is true i'm really bummed. Oh well, I just bought my dell x51 so I won't be upgrading for several years anyway. :(

[Mythicant]

This is perhaps the most infuriating news I've seen lately. :evil: I adored my X50v and know I will love the X51v I recently ordered just as much (the X50v went belly up recently and is well past the warranty.) I can't really say I'm surprised, however, especially after HP's recent announcements of its own pullout.

My question is this: if this news is proven to be true, does it portend the death of the Pocket PC platform itself? HP is pulling out of the non-converged market and have discontinued the 4700 right after their WM5 update. It seems like, as Dell and HP and Microsoft continue to believe that they know more about the desires of the consumer than the consumer him/herself, manufacturers are more and more willing to permit regression in their devices in the name of the almighty converged device. Remember when VGA screens seemed like the wave of the future? That has been jettisoned in the majority of new devices converged devices (assuming the new device's screen is not square.) To me, this trend is unsettling. I know this opinion is more and more in the minority, but I like my cell phone to be my cell phone and my Pocket PC to be my Pocket PC.

I hope this isn't true, but I won't be in any way surprised if it were. In the meantime, I'm going back to pins and needles waiting for my new purchase.

[kaitanium]

oh thats gonna be a sad day. the x50v has been the best pocket pc i have ever owned! its gonna be some time before its topped (by other than the x51v)

[Foo Fighter]

My question is this: if this news is proven to be true, does it portend the death of the Pocket PC platform itself?

In a word, yes. Pocket PC, as it has existed in traditional tablet form (ala Axim X51) is dead. So are Palm handhelds, fueling its demise even faster is the death of its operating system.

The cause of this implosion are shifts in technology and culture. The fact is consumers don't need or want a PDA. This was largely always the case, but in its heyday the PDA hit a mark for huge segment of the consumer market that wanted to stay organized. Ultimately the standalone palm-size handheld simply wasn't an enduring form factor, destined to be squeezed out by inexpensive and infinitely more capable notebook PCs, as well as low-cost cell phones.

I speak in past tense because this shift has already happened, some of you are just too slow (and too devoted) to catch on. Someone in this thread posted something that I found to be comical evidence to the fact that PDA fans just don't get it..."PDAs are not dinosaurs! I still love my iPaq!". I'm sure you do, but that doesn't make the personal digital assistant any less dead as a product category. What you and other devotees don't seem to grasp is there aren't enough of YOU out there to sustain this product market, ergo it's dying. At the dawning of the automobile age many holdouts still loved their horses, even to the point of naming them, and refused to acknowledge the end of their way of life. And yet, as these proud owners galloped along on their beloved beasts, the road beneath them slowly changed from cobblestone to asphalt. You can't stop progress. And much as you may love your iPaq, technology has created something more useful than a PDA; the smartphone.

Bill Gates said it best in an interview last year with engadget; "The cell phone trumps everything". He's right. The one device everyone carries is some form of communication device. Communications is the new killer app. Nobody wants to carry a standalone PDA (even with WiFi) for jotting down notes, adding contacts or storing a calendar entry. Those are redundant tasks that can be easily replicated by any smart connected device. Combine a PDA with a phone, and you've got something useful.

I tend to look at this new frontier with baited enthusiasm. There is a lot of innovation and research taking shape and ever more interesting array of devices. There will be some compromises along the way like smaller screens, the addition of keyboards, an absence of touchscreens (good or bad depending on your view). I'll always look back fondly on my PDAs, like the Palm III, which started me on my journey through mobile technology. But the future is something else.

[Patrick Y.]

oh thats gonna be a sad day. the x50v has been the best pocket pc i have ever owned! its gonna be some time before its topped (by other than the x51v)
Indeed! :cry:

[mmidgley]

I seem to be upgrading pda devices about every three years:
[1997] Apple Newton 2100
[2000] Compaq iPAQ 3650
[2003] HP iPAQ 5555
[2006] i-mate JAMin

There were a few devices before that, but the Newton was the first one worth mentioning. The Newton was exceptional in many ways. Compared to today's devices, it was huge. It didn't bother me at the time.

I was very happy with my iPAQs and the accessories and expansion they allowed.

I also own a bluetooth GPS and a cell phone.

I thought a lot about converged vs. non-converged: everything under the sun devices, phone-PPC, gps-PPC, etc. I've enjoyed some "top of the line" devices, and was worried a converged device would be inferior on the pda side. Also I worried about the converged technology changing--cell phone (and somewhat gps) tech does change. I finally decided the technologies I want to use today are stable enough to buy and use. I chose the JAMin (phone-PPC). My BT GPS works great with it for navigation. It eliminated my phone--and I discovered I don't need a super high power cpu PPC for my usage pattern (but it would be nice, maybe i'll play with overclocking like I did with my iPAQ 3650).

m.

[Janak Parekh]

In a word, yes. Pocket PC, as it has existed in traditional tablet form (ala Axim X51) is dead. So are Palm handhelds, fueling its demise even faster is the death of its operating system.
I hate to agree, but I do, having found I use Pocket PC Phones and Smartphones far more than standalone devices in the last few years. I do feel like qualifying this slightly:

1. I think the standalone PDA will remain, but as a niche product. Certainly, the vertical industries will continue to use them -- they leverage the good battery life and simplicity, compared to UMPCs. That, combined with the still not-totally-insignificant PDA userbase, will leave a few PDA vendors in the market... but certainly quite a bit less than the PDA peak a few years ago.

2. The UMPC as it stands is not yet ready to fill that niche... and I'm still not 100% convinced it will. Instead, as you implied, a combination of notebooks and smarter (e.g., WM5 Smartphone) cell phones will fill most others' desires, and the high-end touchscreen-enabled smartphones (like the WM5 Pocket PC Phones) will fulfill the rest.

3. The slow pace of wireless carriers, especially in the US, will mean that PDAs will evolve more slowly. :( I hope this is rectified long-term, but I'm not convinced it will be.

4. I think there will continue to be high-end Pocket PC Phones or other Smartphones that could be used as a phone, but can also work as a standalone PDA if required (e.g., the JasJar). If they can hit decent pricepoints, combined with #1 options should still remain for end-users.

Fortunately, Microsoft has taken steps with Windows Mobile to make it ready as this transition happens. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out long-term.

--janak

[Cybrid]

In a word, yes. Pocket PC, as it has existed in traditional tablet form (ala Axim X51) is dead. So are Palm handhelds, fueling its demise even faster is the death of its operating system.

Hmmph! With the trend of cell phone becoming smartphone/media player like. You could say....the cellphone is a dying market? No, I didn't think so.
At best, it is simple trend towards convergence mitigated by market share and greed.
Every gadget company is looking to break into your neighbors $100-200 price point and pocket.
Most people aren't willing to carry multiple devices or pay that much. Big suprise there.
Yeah the PPC is dead, but long live the mobile communications device.
At some point in time, everything will be in a single device. And?....

***huge quote deleted by moderator JD. Please don't quote entire messages.***

[Janak Parekh]

Hmmph! With the trend of cell phone becoming smartphone/media player like. You could say....the cellphone is a dying market? No, I didn't think so.
I do think the ultra-dumb cellphone will die, actually. Most cellphones today have basic calendar and contact functionality -- even if people don't use it. An increasing number of carriers are carrying more and more phones with integrated media functionality, too, and at lower costs.

--janak

[patato]

I do think the ultra-dumb cellphone will die, actually. Most cellphones today have basic calendar and contact functionality -- even if people don't use it. An increasing number of carriers are carrying more and more phones with integrated media functionality, too, and at lower costs.


--janak
It will die in the more developed nations but everywhere else...
Dell's "annoucement" was not a suprise. The market in the US is dead. I've only seen 2 WM devices in public ever(a ipaq 6135 and a Audiovox Smartphone). Dell knows that the future is the converged device. So does HP.

[BarryB]

I purchased an X50v a few months ago. I hadn't been impressed by Dell's previous offerings. However, they had improved their lineup. That, coupled with the dwindling breadth and depth of the standalone PDA market as a whole, convinced me to go with Dell.

I enjoy standalone/wifi enabled PDAs. If cellular coverage were universally available at my home (i.e., I don't have to stand in one particular corner of the house to receive 0 bars), then I would be more interested in smartphones. I want to be able to whip out my mobile device and check on news or weather whenever I want. I do not want to stroll upstairs, position myself in a corner of my dining room and hope I get a signal.

Yet, mobile device manufacturers seem intent on bundling PDAs with cell phones, charging vast sums of money every month for the privilege of chceking news and weather (that I now get for free less the cost of the Axim), and most of the time, I don't even get the signal.

Talk to me about smartphones when (a) the cost per month drops to about $20 for all you can eat data, and (b) I can access it in the basement of my house, possibly because I can get it through wifi as well as cell.

[Paragon]

Damn! It will be a sad day to see Dell pull completely out of the PDA space. Dell have been one of the most significant players in this market. The X5 turned Pocket PCs around. I remember doing a review on the X5 and saying something like " the 3650 Ipaq put Pocket PCs on the map, but the X5 re-wrote the map." And it did. At a time when Pocket PCs were edging toward the $800-$900 mark Dell came out with the X5 which had a decent screen, dual slots, removable battery and much more for 200 bucks! That completely turned the market around. We saw tons of new users because of such a cheap price point. It would be really great to see Dell do it again in the converged space. &lt;fingers crossed> ;)

Dave

[ADBrown]

The cause of this implosion are shifts in technology and culture. The fact is consumers don't need or want a PDA. This was largely always the case, but in its heyday the PDA hit a mark for huge segment of the consumer market that wanted to stay organized. Ultimately the standalone palm-size handheld simply wasn't an enduring form factor, destined to be squeezed out by inexpensive and infinitely more capable notebook PCs, as well as low-cost cell phones.

When you show me a notebook that I can fit in my pocket, or a cell phone that edits native Office documents on a VGA screen, THEN you have a case. Until then, there's still an ample market for large screens, rich features, and devices not tethered to a service provider.

If the handheld market is suffering from anything, it's manufacturers buying into the hype that the market is imploding, and destroying their own product lines. Look at Palm and HP. They cannibalized their handheld lines to try and get in on smartphones--rather successfully in Palm's case, rather unsuccessfully in HP's. I wonder, how many more iPaqs HP would have been selling if they hadn't taken the path they did? Probably more than the number of smartphones they're selling.

A handheld with a built-in phone isn't substantially different from one without a built in phone. The difference between the HTC Wizard and the Axim X51 is a smaller screen and another radio. That's hardly an earth-shaking paradigm shift worth all of the FUD that's been spread about it.

I speak in past tense because this shift has already happened, some of you are just too slow (and too devoted) to catch on.

That must be why handheld shipments hit an all-time record high last year, right?

What you and other devotees don't seem to grasp is there aren't enough of YOU out there to sustain this product market, ergo it's dying.

That's a pretty screwy way of looking at it. Let's see--with NO marketing, very little word of mouth, NO buzz, and very little effort by some of the major players, the "dying" market shipped over fifteen million devices.

Bill Gates said it best in an interview last year with engadget; "The cell phone trumps everything". He's right. The one device everyone carries is some form of communication device. Communications is the new killer app. Nobody wants to carry a standalone PDA (even with WiFi) for jotting down notes, adding contacts or storing a calendar entry.

Isn't that a bit of an overgeneralization? I certainly want to carry my Axim with me. In fact, I carry it more than I carry a mobile communications device. And the last person that I'd be trusting to chart the path of new technology is Bill Gates. Remember the "tablet PCs will kill laptops" campaign? (Or air panels, or network computers, or...) It failed for one simple reason: most people weren't willing to accept the compromises. They were happy with their larger, easier to use devices. The same argument can be made about handhelds and smartphones. Sure, you CAN do PIM on a phone, but do you really want to? I currently have the Cingular 2125 and the T-Mobile SDA, and I certainly wouldn't want to use either of them for serious organization. They're terrible. A PPC phone is better, but no picnic in terms of phone functionality, either.

Those are redundant tasks that can be easily replicated by any smart connected device. Combine a PDA with a phone, and you've got something useful.

No, you really don't. Computing and phones are opposites. The things that make computing easy and worthwhile--large screens, big storage, powerful processors, easy input--are contrary to the things that make a good phone: small size, long battery life, and ruggedness.

Now, you can make a device which mixes these with a greater or lesser degree of success. But any serious mixture is never going to be as small or robust as a real phone, and it's never going to be as powerful as a dedicated computer. Those aren't acceptable compromises for many people. Even if you speculated that a majority of the market was willing to put up with this--quite a leap, I think--there would still be a huge market not interested in doing so. Remember that even Palm, focused to exclusion on their Treos, still has an ample non-phone handheld business that sells nearly as many units.

If you carried the handhelds-are-dead theory forward, I could make a pretty good argument that in a few years it's phones that are going to be dead. Once wireless broadband becomes pervasive, we're going to be running everything as data, including voice. That means tiny computers for VoIP, IPTV, browsing, and the like, rather than "old school" dedicated phones. Smartphones, from that perspective, are nothing more than an interim step, trying to cram together old phone technology and new computer technology.

Media players, music devices, gaming consoles, internet tablets--a bunch of niches which are considered to be "booming," while any of these devices are easily outclassed cheap, commoditized handheld computers which are pronounced to be "dead." Makes you wonder about the conventional "wisdom." When it comes right down to it, it's all mobile computing. Trumpeting that one segment is dead while another one is in the spotlight just boils down to marketing.

[heatlesssun]

Small, powerful computing devices aren't going anywhere. What is happening however is the abandonment of devices that aren't connected, which in the case of a small device like a PDA, means being online all the time with wireless broadband. Think about it. How many computers are NOT connected to the internet these days? Does anyone buy a computer that they don't want to connect to the Internet?

Just like desktops and laptops, we now want PDA's that are connected. However, wireless providers at this time want to sell voice more than data, so all wireless broadband PDA's happen to be phones as well.

I think there's tremendous opportunity here. More and more people will be hitting the web through a small mobile device, and most web sites don't work well on mobile browsers. I don't know of one retail site that works well on a pocket PC browser for instance. I'm sure there are some, but most I've used when Tim in a store to comparison shop leave a lot to be desired.

So the PDA is not going away but more places as mobile web browsing improves and wireless broadband becomes more common.

What may die in all of this however are mobile OS'es. A device that 1 can hook up to a monitor and keyboard and use Word and Excel just like on a desktop or laptop, that would be a winner I think.

This is the beginning of the PDA, not the end!

[bigkingfun]

I've had my x50v longer than any other Pocket PC. But the fact is, I find myself using it less and less. Sometimes I need to remember to dock it just to keep the battery charged.

As much as it pains me, I have to agree with the posts that think the standalone PDA is going to disappear.

A smartphone can work just as well as a PPC for PIM functions. Why would I want to look up a contact on my Pocket PC then dial them on my phone when I can do it all from one device? And I don't need a VGA screen for my calendar.

My PPC plays games well, but not as well as a PSP. It plays music well, but not as well as an iPod. It can work with Office files and other formats, but not as well as my notebook.

There's very little that my Pocket PC does as well or better than any other device, and over the last year or so I find I'm less willing to compromise functionality, for the sake of a smaller footprint.

The only thing I can really say I find particularly useful on my Pocket PC is using Repligo to read documents converted from my desktop system. Everything else is really just an exercise in W?BIC and that isn't really a strong enough argument for me anymore.

I don't even remember the last time I checked in on PPC Thoughts, where I used to be on the site every couple of hours, looking for cool news.

I wonder when PPC Thoughts and Smartphone Thoughts are going to converge the way the devices themselves seem to be...

[Mark Johnson]

Just today a client of mine got a Dell Latitude X1 and it is just awsome. As I was setting it up (and drooling) I checked the Dell website and saw they had it for $1,128 which made me think quoted prices for the Samsung UMPC ($2,000 ish) are not going to be representative of the UMPC's in general.

All dell has to do is rebuild the X1 with the screen "fused to the top" and replace the LCD with a touchscreen one. It's already a 2.5 pounder, getting something like this under $1,000 and under 2 pounds seems "right around the corner" not "in a galaxy far far away."

IMHO Dell's right to bail on the PPC market. Let Windows Mobile continue in the phone/converged devices space, but focus all other resources on making a Dell OQO/UMPC/TinyTabletPC etc.

[PDANEWBIE]

I have to say its a shame converged devices are becoming the ONLY solution. You know many people have a forced low quality work cell phone and don't use a personal cell phone at all. What do you do in this becase I can't use my low quality work phone to do my PIM functions. Am I now FORCED to buy a phone when I don't want one and don't need the personal cell service? On top of this the converged devices are always so gimped in one aspect or another I.E. your forced to give up slots or only use another type of media, usually have lower ram to give you better battery life but I would rather have bigger ram and buy an extended battery of some kind (which most converged devices do not offer as well).

In all I like my PDA for what it is a GPS unit, a wifi hotspot surfer, a PIM and a nice little handheld game player.

Find me a converged device that works like that and I'll gladly switch but since I have not seen one single converged device with stellar specs I will still pine for a PDA over a Phone with a PIM with some square screen that doesn't support half the apps out there.

I don't think I am holding ont a PDA form as much as I am looking for a great combination between portability and functionality and IMHO going fro ma PDA to a converged device is a step BACKWARDS in technology when it comes to computing power and operability.

[Timothy Rapson]

[quote=Foo Fighter]
When it comes right down to it, it's all mobile computing. Trumpeting that one segment is dead while another one is in the spotlight just boils down to marketing.

ADBrown, that whole comment is so good it ought to be an editorial in the Wall Street Journal.

I may even stop unthinkingly posting all over that I agree with the common wisdom that PDAs are dead and phones are going to rule the world.

[Mythicant]

The problem I've always had with the Tablet/UMPC concept is the continued reliance on full-blown Windows XP. My avatar notwithstanding, I like XP and I'm sure I'll like Vista, if we ever get to see it. It's just that Windows has always seemed ill-suited for this format. It was never intended to be a mobile OS (i.e., without a real keyboard): it has an enormous foot print and is a resource hog. And, if ever any manufacturers are able to hit their price point on the UMPC (which, frankly, I don't see happening for quite some time) it will involve enormous compromises in terms of processing and likely memory, too. It won't do games and it's too big to be a music player, so it'll be relegated to the world of PIM/office applications. It's big, so where/how does one carry it? As a grad student, I can imagine sticking it in my back pack, but I don't intend to have one forever and I'm not going the man-purse route.

But M. Gates et al. have declared they will accept nothing less. Hasn't it always seemed so? Hasn't it always seemed as though the PPC has taken baby steps in its evolution? And if M. Gates wants it, of course everyone else must also, right?

I realize my devotion to the PPC platform is probably more than a little antiquated, however, I have spent a great deal of time and money on my device(s) and the myriad of accessories and programs I have for it(them). I just hate the idea of it being such a wasted opportunity, especially for dell, who put one of the first (if not *the* first) video card in a PPC. Not that there are really any games that take advantage of it...

Furthermore, I just can't get excited about any of the converged devices I see. There's something about tying the device in to a monthly fee to have the priveledge of using all of its features that seems anathema (though I do pay a monthly fee for my less-than-intelligent cell.) Also, converged devices show an awful trend of compromizes (square screens? Ick.) Unless, of course, one goes with the JasJar or similar, in which case one must pay arm and leg and get saddled with an enormous device with many wonderful features that I, personally, would probably never use enough to justify the purchase.

Nevertheless, if Dell does bail, I don't see the PPC remaining at all except in obscurity. With HP already gone and Dell (possibly) following suit, what does that leave us? Fujitsu? Well, maybe, if they had any real presence in this country. Acer? Ditto. And they'll probably announce they're getting out of the business, too.

Not to sound too much like my grandfather, but I miss the good old days when advancement and improvement were de rigueur. But in our day, Moore's Law no longer applies. We move two steps forward and one step back and to the side.

[Timothy Rapson]

There's very little that my Pocket PC does as well or better than any other device, and over the last year or so I find I'm less willing to compromise functionality, for the sake of a smaller footprint.
.

Two problems with this. I don't want to carry a PDA, phone, iPod, and camera. I want one device that does it all, perhaps even one that replaces my desktop as my main information/connectivity/entertainment device. Only a Pocket PC ever came close to delivering all that in one package. I might be able to get an HTC Universal one day (not at the current $950 though) In fact, the HTC Uni is just one generation from perfection. I would want it just a little bit smaller outside with the same screen inside and it needs to cost half as much as it currently does. Do that and an HTC U with a 20 gig memory card WILL replace the iPod, phone, PSP, laptop, and PDA. Will it be a PDA or a phone? Who knows and who cares.

This thread is becoming another take on the old "Are PDAs dying" rather than just "Is Dell leaving"

Just got Adobe and the CIA map of the world running on my Toshiba. What a dream. Works just like on my desktop only I can take it anywhere and I have had fewer stability issues with it than any desktop I have ever used.

I have found that the WinMob market has already grown so mature that there is little I want to do with a computer that isn't already available. Word Processing, maps, pictures, browsers, PIMs, and games (which I don't know about for sure as I never play any) are already available by the ton. Even with no new paint or Bible program appearing in the last two years there are 3-4 choices in every category. So, the as we know it PPC dies? I may just buy a couple more Toshiba e800s to mothball as backups. I could just use this for a long time.

[Riled]

For me personnally, I'm lucky enough to have a lifestyle where I don't need a cellphone. I've had them and I've had non-converged PDA's. Without exception, I've gotten rid of the cellphone as soon as possible, but I use my PDA on a daily basis.

The problem with cellphones are cellphone companies. Restricting harware to keep control over device usage, hidden fees, failure to provide cutting-edge services despite high fees, etc. All those things make cellphones an evil that luckily for me is an unnecessary one. In theory, I would love to have the capability in my PDA, but just as another radio that I can use the way I want.

The perfect converged device for me would be on the opposite end of the spectrum than most devices are now: slap a cellular radio in my Hx4700 and let me buy 3rd party software to use it to it's utmost (i.e. don't make the OS centered around just that one function to the detriment of all others). All the converged devices I've seen try to put a PDA into a phone, which is fine if you care more about the phone. I just see the phone as being yet one more technology that a PDA can do along with so many others. I actually wouldn't mind holding my 4700 up to my ear and talking into it, but then I wouldn't be having to do it very often either.

I guess my point is that the mantra of the converged device seems a knee-jerk reaction to me and I hope Dell isn't getting out of the business just because of this. Maybe they are going to going to put out an X50v with a cellular radio; who knows. Then again, maybe Apple will make a PDA and finally show everyone how it should be done.

[Birdiestyle]

I wonder how much the HUGE SUPPORT of shipping the "not quite ready" WM5 on x51's (and the horrible x50 update), hurt their overall (and already very low) margins on their PDAs. Could it really have been that much!!

And if the shipments of PDAs are hitting their all time highest, it would only make sense that one of the other manufacturers will step in and fill the needed void. There is still A LARGE market for devices without phone(vertical market and corporate contracts are huge not to mention the more and more people that are now finally ready for this market and the ones that dont want the data plans, etc etc etc....).

Here's a thought.....

There's this little PDA company that made some interesting devices and sold a ton but were always stuck with a limited OS, but now seem to be willing to change.....

Boy, if Dell and HP have really completely jumped ship, what an oppertunity for someone....

[Paragon]

In all I like my PDA for what it is a GPS unit, a wifi hotspot surfer, a PIM and a nice little handheld game player.

Find me a converged device that works like that and I'll gladly switch .


My original XDA did all that. So did my XDAII, and my PPC5050, and my 6315 Ipaq, as well as my PDA2k, and my JAM, so did my M500, and now my UTstarcom 6700. So did the Jasjar I used for a short time. They are all converged devices, and most had the specs of any other non-converged device of its time. Some now have a smaller screen while others don't. They handle all the requirements you just posted but do so much more. Being converged means I can sit in the park and surf or check email. I can do this in the car, on the train, or a bus. My kids are all just a phone call away when I'm out of the house. I can't begin to put a price on that. With a converged device I am always connected if I want to be, or I can turn it off and block out the world if I like, and just sit and play a game or read a book. The cost of converged devices is coming down. You can now buy a converged device for less than the cheapest non-converged device on the market. I just bought my son a UTstarcom 6700 from Telus for $149.00. How can non-converged devices compete with all that? The number of people who don't see or want those advantages are so small now that OEMs can't afford to target such a small audience.

I'm rather surprised at the people stating everything their standard PDA does, as if a converged device didn't? The Phone Edition part of a converged device is an additional function built on top of the standard Windows Mobile Pocket PC edition, so everything a normal Pocket PC does a converged device does as well.

Dave

[alese]

In all I like my PDA for what it is a GPS unit, a wifi hotspot surfer, a PIM and a nice little handheld game player.

Find me a converged device that works like that and I'll gladly switch .


My original XDA did all that. So did my XDAII...
...
I'm rather surprised at the people stating everything their standard PDA does, as if a converged device didn't? The Phone Edition part of a converged device is an additional function built on top of the standard Windows Mobile Pocket PC edition, so everything a normal Pocket PC does a converged device does as well.
Dave

Could not agree more. Converged devices are typically just as powerfull as the "normal" PPCs. My old HTC Himalaya was top of the line PPC in it's time with specs (128Mb RAM) most high end PPCs never had, same goes for my HTC Universal - it's top of the line PPC, yes it has slower CPU than x51v and lacks graphics accelerator, but it also has keyboard, better screen and ability to be connected everywhere.

And as for prices - with devices beeing offered by carriers the prices are actually lower than ordinary PPC in the shop. I payed less for each of my Phone Edition devices than I did for my old Jornada or iPAQ...

PDAs are not dying, they are merging with phone functionality to give us more features and possibilities.

[MasterOfMoo]

Remember, it's all rumours at the moment, but if indeed the day comes when Dell announces the death of the Axim line, what will be running through your mind?

What will be running through my mind? Anger. I've been not-so-patiently awaiting a ROM update for the x50v w/ the WM5.0 upgrade. Since the whole thing was so problematical (I won't get into repeating all the issues again for the sake of brevity), I've rolled back to the original OS.

The anger will be based on the fact that I paid for an upgrade and got crap in return. Sure the upgrade installs, but it renders my Axim unusable, and there's no chance of getting my money back.

Beyond that, disappointment will be the other key feeling by the end of the Axim line. Barring the WM5.0 Upgrade hell, the device was a much better pricepoint than the competition. I remember choosing the x50v at the time because the comparable iPAQ device would have run me $150-$250 USD more for the same power/features.

Ah well, life goes on.

[gt24]

If PDAs go the converged route, I won't be using PDAs anymore...

I have a lovely prepay plan with my carrier that isn't horrible. Essentially it is a no contract plan. However, if I ever wanted to change carriers of course I would need to ditch my current phone and get one of their phones... the devices are LOCKED to the carriers. Ok, let's say I want my carriers Windows Mobile phone... well, I CAN'T unless I have a 1-2 year contract with them, they refuse to sell or activate any advanced phone on anything less, at least from what I gathered. Perhaps I am lucky though, if I changed carriers, my Windows Mobile phone would not be functional anymore.

Also, I love how that phone is a ton more if I choose the 1 year plan, how updates to the OS are slow because the carrier is reluctant to approve OS changes, and just how the general device is no more a personal assistant and has since become an extension of my carrier.

I don't mind draining my PDA of battery life, I DO mind doing so on my phone. I don't mind having a dumb phone because, well... it is a phone! My PDA is more than that. I don't want them combined... and if they are, perhaps my interests will drift elsewhere. Pity too...

Converged devices work because the carriers showcase the devices. The non-converged devices are limited to online stores and rarely show up in real stores... and if they do show up, it is HP or Palm devices... Ah well, it was fun while it lasted.

[axe]

so much for my next device going to be an axim... where will I go now, since HPs upgrade service was so crummy for my 2215...
who knows.

[Ryan Joseph]

I had an X5 back in the day. It was a great device, I thought. A little big, but powerful as anything. It seemed like nothing could stop it. Dell really does seem to know what they're doing with PDAs, but...

I really have to agree with everyone saying the PDA market is dead. It just is. If my Pocket PC didn't have GPS that I use in the car, I'd probably never use it anymore. I do everything on my smartphone because it's always with me, you know?

So I understand why Dell would be doing this, I just don't think it's necessarily the right answer. They should turn their R&amp;D to smartphones or converged devices of some sort. Don't pack up and go home all together... :?

[Foo Fighter]

When you show me a notebook that I can fit in my pocket, or a cell phone that edits native Office documents on a VGA screen, THEN you have a case. Until then, there's still an ample market for large screens, rich features, and devices not tethered to a service provider.

UMPC is getting pretty close to that mark, but not enough I'll grant you. But the JasJar is a cell phone that has a VGA screen, and can edit native Office documents, so I think we're already there for that kind of solution, with more to follow.

If the handheld market is suffering from anything, it's manufacturers buying into the hype that the market is imploding, and destroying their own product lines.

Oh please. You think HP, Dell, and soon Palm, are getting out of the handheld business because of the hype surrounding Smartphones? These companies are motivated by steadily declining PDA sales, lack of customer demand, and parralel rise in smartphone demand. Dollars drive decisions, not word on the street. PDAs aren't selling, and business customers want convergence. End of story.

Look at Palm and HP. They cannibalized their handheld lines to try and get in on smartphones--rather successfully in Palm's case, rather unsuccessfully in HP's. I wonder, how many more iPaqs HP would have been selling if they hadn't taken the path they did?

That's an exaggeration. Palm didn't cannibalize its handheld line at all, in fact they are the last remaining company still putting any real development effort into that dying category. LifeDrive is an example of that. The payoff just isn't there for PDAs because DEMAND isn't there.

HP dropped long before they moved into the smartphone space. They were already on a slippery slope starting way back when they killed off their relatively popular iPaq 19xx series in favor of ugly brick-like devices with bizarre cryptic names like rx4500. From that point on HP has been on a downward spiral where mobile devices are concerned.

Probably more than the number of smartphones they're selling.

Possibly, but that has more to do with the fact the smartphone they are selling isn't exactly a category killer.

A handheld with a built-in phone isn't substantially different from one without a built in phone. The difference between the HTC Wizard and the Axim X51 is a smaller screen and another radio. That's hardly an earth-shaking paradigm shift worth all of the FUD that's been spread about it.

From a purely technical standpoint what you said is quite accurate. A typical HTC-built Windows Mobile phone is essentially just a Pocket PC with a cellular radio. That may seem trivial to you, but it totally changes the landscape. For starters, it makes the standalone PDA you hold in your hand now irrelevant, as well as your cell phone. Many Windows Mobile phones have WiFi built-in, which removes the last remaining utiltiy a dedicated PDA serves, and the addition of cellular data service means I can access the web/email/IM from virtually anyware...unlike a WiFi PDA. And before you mention that you can connect a PDA with a phone via BT, l'll just point out that you've answered yet another reason why the two-piece solution doesn't make sense.

That must be why handheld shipments hit an all-time record high last year, right?

I don't know where you're getting these numbers but I suspect you're using Gartner or some other study that includes RIM because the studies I've seen that disseminate non-cellular handhelds from smartphones shows the former category shrinking substantially. Handhelds are a shrinking segment, Adama. To agrue that handhelds are a growth sector is just silly. One need only watch HP, Dell, or Palm to see the lack of credibility in that assertion. Or do you REALLY think these companies are just getting out the PDA business because of hype and FUD? :roll:

That's a pretty screwy way of looking at it. Let's see--with NO marketing, very little word of mouth, NO buzz, and very little effort by some of the major players, the "dying" market shipped over fifteen million devices.

See my above point.

Isn't that a bit of an overgeneralization? I certainly want to carry my Axim with me. In fact, I carry it more than I carry a mobile communications device.

That's you. As I said before, there aren't enough of you out there to make this a viable market. Walk into any retail store and you'll bear witness to this fact. Most of the major retailers are or already have ceased offering PDAs in store. My local Best Buy doesn't carry them anymore. That's hardly the treatment I would expect for a product category that is an underground success as you claim.

And the last person that I'd be trusting to chart the path of new technology is Bill Gates. Remember the "tablet PCs will kill laptops" campaign?

Oh I think Gates is ultimately correct, in the sense that eventually all portable computers will become tablet PCs of sorts. You'll see an increasing number of notebooks with swivel screens or tablet-like functionality. But there is no warrant (or market) for a specialized portable now, outside the vertical market maybe. I've seen a few tablets used in medical but nowhere else in the real world. And if you've followed Microsoft as long as I have, you'll know that Gates and company have had a long affection for tablet screen devices. UMPC is merely the latest incarnation of that concept.

By the way, you forgot to add Smart Displays to that list of dud products. That device lasted shorter than any other I think.

It failed for one simple reason: most people weren't willing to accept the compromises. They were happy with their larger, easier to use devices. The same argument can be made about handhelds and smartphones.

Note quite. Tablet Pc failed largely because of the high cost and miserable battery life. The ease of use, or lack thereof, is largely imagined considering a Tablet PC in notebook form (with swivel screen) still runs XP and operates identically to a typical notebook.

Your comparison also doesn't quite make sense as you seem to be implying that smartphones are witnessing the same lukewarm reception Tablet PC received, which clearly is not the case, as the rapid sales growth in that category shows.

Sure, you CAN do PIM on a phone, but do you really want to?

On a Pocket PC phone you can. How would it be any different that would make that experience so unbearable, as you seem to imply? I've used several Pocket PC phones and they all work exactly like your Axim. What am I missing here?

And you're switching arguments here just a bit. I'm talking about Windows Mobile (PPC). You're now talking about Windows Mobile smartphone edition, which contrary to perception is really not targeted towards the PDA end of the market. That platform is designed to attack Nokia (Symbian). Personally I have no interest in this category for much the same reason as you. No touchscreen, no dice. And I want a QWERTY keyboard, not a keypad.

No, you really don't. Computing and phones are opposites. The things that make computing easy and worthwhile--large screens, big storage, powerful processors, easy input--are contrary to the things that make a good phone: small size, long battery life, and ruggedness.

Not true. The processors that power your PDA also power most phones on the market today. A typical mid-range or higher phone is running on fast ARM processors or something very similar. The technological differences between phones and PDAs has blurred greatly, which is what makes convergence a possibility. The other qualities you talk about, like large screens, is out there in products like the JasJar. The real difference between the PDA and smartphone segment is that you have far more innovation and choice in form factors in the latter category as apposed to the "one-size-fits-all" approach to PDA design.

Now, you can make a device which mixes these with a greater or lesser degree of success. But any serious mixture is never going to be as small or robust as a real phone, and it's never going to be as powerful as a dedicated computer. Those aren't acceptable compromises for many people. Even if you speculated that a majority of the market was willing to put up with this--quite a leap, I think--there would still be a huge market not interested in doing so.

Possibly, but exactly how big that market is remains to be seen. The mere fact that two of the last remaining handheld vendors are planning to exit that market is a telling story, IMO.

remember that even Palm, focused to exclusion on their Treos, still has an ample non-phone handheld business that sells nearly as many units.

You're not quite telling the whole story. The treo line outsells the handheld line by an ever widening margin. Palm's handheld sales have been in a state of decline for years now. And those numbers are falling even as we speak. So I would hardly point to Palm's continuation to produce handhelds as an endorsement. Eventually Palm will follow the same path as HP and Dell.

Media players, music devices, gaming consoles, internet tablets--a bunch of niches which are considered to be "booming," while any of these devices are easily outclassed cheap, commoditized handheld computers which are pronounced to be "dead."

Well, I don't want this to fork off into whole other argument, but suffice to say you are dead wrong in asserting the PDA's "superiority" over dedicated devices. For you that solution may be "superior", but despite all the fancy bells and whistles, I would still describe the PDA as a jack of all trades and master of none...particular with regard to multimedia. As a serious digital media player (especially audio), most Windows Mobile devices (or any PDA for that matter) I've used are quite simply pathetic. Audio quality just isn't there when compared with purpose-built devices like an iPod. The only PDA that really stood up as a credible digital audio player was the Zodiac, and that's because it had a Yamaha chip under the hood pumping out pure audio sweetness. Windows Mobile audio is software rendered and even with fancy aftermarket media player software that includes an EQ, the sound quality pales to what you'll experience on an garden variety iPod or Windows Media compatible player.

Media management and transport is even worse on the PDA side. Windows Media Player sucks (both on Windows and PPC), integration is imperfect at best, storage capacity is limited, and there is simply no alternative to iTunes music store. Not to mention that trying to use a PDA as a music player is absolutely nowhere near as easy as iPod. In NO WAY is Pocket PC iPod's contemporary...unless you enjoy complexity and have incredibly low standards in quality and ease of use. You plug in an iPod, it automatically launches iTunes, syncs up your playlists, downloads podcasts, allows you to buy music from its desktop front-end, and most importantly....it's easy to use.

Makes you wonder about the conventional "wisdom." When it comes right down to it, it's all mobile computing. Trumpeting that one segment is dead while another one is in the spotlight just boils down to marketing.

Good punch line, but what you dispute still remains true. One segment is dying while the other is growing, and it has nothing to do with marketing. But I suppose there is little point in arguing that because you and I clearly don't see eye to eye on this issue. And since PDA vendors are pulling up stakes anyway, it's all academic.

[Cybrid]

I do think the ultra-dumb cellphone will die, ....

--janakYes! My point exactly, Why did palm die/? They steadfastly ignored trends that users wanted more.
Similarily, the dumb cell phone is dead. I don't think even now you could find a simple phone...sans games, camera, calendar, what not.
They even make a camera with cellphone capability.

What at present has the current adaptability to "do it all"? Windows Mobile.

A device's function is primarily defined by its user.
If all I used my 6700 was for games...is it not a glorified gameboy?

The Casio E-125/Ipaq 36xx...days are looong gone. Connectivity was the killer app even then. What changed? The protocol?

[PDANEWBIE]

I'm rather surprised at the people stating everything their standard PDA does, as if a converged device didn't?

No the simple fact is NO converged device has all the specs of the device I currently own. That is what I am looking for and will never find I am sure. While you may get close I will have tradeoff. As far as EVERYTHING you failed to not my hardware requirements. I.E. why do I need to switch to Mini SD and no CF when all my items I own use SD and CF?

I am not saying converged means I can't do everything I am saying I just don't want my phone added into a PDA at the expense of something I already have in place.

As far as the ultra dumb cell phone dying I hope it doesn't mine has been more reliable dumb than anyone I have met with these new converged devices that have x complaint or y complaint about a missed call due to a lock up or they were doing X and got kicked off of y. I mean WHEN has an ultra dumb cell phone had to be rebooted. Heck I have not even turned mine off in 2 years.

Finally my last rant is there is yet another contention and that is all the types of cell phone bands until they make these "converged" devices that work on any phone system. I WON'T ever pay $900 for a device I have to try and resell on ebay or toss in a shoebox because I want to switch.

In all converged devices add more headaches than I contend to want with just having my 2 seperate devices.

[Paragon]

No the simple fact is NO converged device has all the specs of the device I currently own. That is what I am looking for and will never find I am sure. While you may get close I will have tradeoff. As far as EVERYTHING you failed to not my hardware requirements. I.E. why do I need to switch to Mini SD and no CF when all my items I own use SD and CF?

***long quote trimmed by mod JD.***

PDANEWBIE,

Converged devices are far from the only devices without a CF slot, and most have an SD slot. There are but a few PPCs left that have a CF slot. Being converged has nothing to do with leaving the CF slot behind. It is old tech and has been replaced by newer small more secure media.

900 bucks??!! I think the Jasjar is the only converged device that falls into that price range. There are numerous devices out there that fall well within the range of that device you own with a CF slot.

Having two devices is a personal choice, and there is nothing wrong in making that choice. However the two reasons above are flawed.

You also stated that no current converged device has the specs of the PPC you now own. My I ask what CURRENT NOT DISCONTINUED standard Pocket PC has the specs of your current one?

I don't think it is just converged devices that have moved away from those specs, but the whole market, converged and otherwise.

Dave

[alese]

I'm rather surprised at the people stating everything their standard PDA does, as if a converged device didn't?
No the simple fact is NO converged device has all the specs of the device I currently own. That is what I am looking for and will never find I am sure. While you may get close I will have tradeoff. As far as EVERYTHING you failed to not my hardware requirements. I.E. why do I need to switch to Mini SD and no CF when all my items I own use SD and CF?


Just about the only thing some high end PPCs have that no converged devices have is CF slot, that can be important to some, but on the other hand it adds to the size of the device, SD slot is quite common in Phone edition devices, unless you want ultra small one.
As for the rest of the specifications, you can have USB Host on some devices and Axim x50v/51v has VGA out, both this features are not present in current Phone Editions, but on the other hand in Phone Edition (HTC Universal for instance), you get keyboard, Wireless capability anywhere not only when you are in range of WiFi hotspot and to some (most) of the users this is more important.


As far as the ultra dumb cell phone dying I hope it doesn't mine has been more reliable dumb than anyone I have met with these new converged devices that have x complaint or y complaint about a missed call due to a lock up or they were doing X and got kicked off of y. I mean WHEN has an ultra dumb cell phone had to be rebooted. Heck I have not even turned mine off in 2 years.

4 years ago when I had "dumb" phone and my iPaq I thought this is fine setup. But after a while I started to get irritated by having to type phone numbers into my phone manually to call some people I had in my iPaq. This alone convinced me that phone in the PDA is simply naturall extension of it's functionality. I can call anyone just by clicking a contact, and I don't have to worry about syncing 2 devices. And it does not end here, calendar, mail, SMS... all this fits much better on Phone Edition than on the "regular" PPC.
Oh and no, in 3 years of using different phone editions, I did not have missed calls or cutt offs because of problems with the device.


Finally my last rant is there is yet another contention and that is all the types of cell phone bands until they make these "converged" devices that work on any phone system. I WON'T ever pay $900 for a device I have to try and resell on ebay or toss in a shoebox because I want to switch.

Well if you live (like 5 billion other people) outside US, you typically use GSM/GPRS standard and have no problems with different bands. And you also pay "only" something like $300-$500 for a device.

[Don't Panic!]

When Dell stops selling PDAs I'll still be thinking that Dualcor made a mistake in not releasing the cPC to consumers. Now that's a converged device! (http://www.dualcor.com/)

[ipaqczar]

Foo Fighter,

I'm not sure what Pocket PCs you've been using - but my 3950 does audio quite nicely, with or without headphones - something no Ipod can do without docks or portable speakers.

Now if you are an audiophile that can tell the difference between 192 and 256 bit rates, etc. etc. than I suppose you wouldn't be satisfied with anything the PPC can produce. Although I very much enjoyed the recent Maximum PC article that showed that even the most serious audiophiles had trouble distinguishing bitrates - and even on the music they chose themselves.

Although Windows Media is not as elegant as iTunes - it works fine and is built into Rom. If I was so smitten with Itunes on the desktop and wanted it for my PPC - I'd pay the $10 and get ppcTunes which can grab the iTunes playlists and music on sync and put them on the PPC or storage card.

http://www.pocketmac.net/products/ppctunes/index.html

On to your points about convergance. I agree that most people won't want 2 devices when 1 will suffice.

But there are plenty of people who don't want or need dedicated cell phone service for PDA functionality.

I work for a school system - and while they will provide PDAs for most administrators - they certainly wouldn't issue them cell phones.

Sure, I'd love to be able to make calls from my PDA - but I use a pay as you go service (Tracfone) - and I seriously doubt they are going to moving into the Smartphone market any time soon.

Like others have said - most reviews I've read have said that the PocketPC phones/smartphones are underpowered processor wise.

And most are so tied to their provider - I want it to be my PDA &amp; Phone - not so tied to them that I feel enslaved.

Re: Tablet/mini-pcs/etc. A few days ago I was on a flight and the guy next to me asked about my iPaq. I told him about it's mp3 &amp; movie playing capabities, GPS &amp; wifi with CF cards that I had in my backpack, consumer level infared with macro recording capablities for controlling all my household entertainment devices (as well as those at my moms and girlfriends), game playing and emulation capabilities, audio note taking abilities that I had just used it for, etc. etc.

He got out his tablet PC. He switched it to tablet mode. He had lost the pencil - and thus it no longer worked. A $2000 machine reduced to a door stop because the stupid thing needs a special magnetic pencil instead of a regular stylus.

If that is the future I'll stick with my 4 year old PDA.

[Don't Panic!]

Re: Tablet/mini-pcs/etc. A few days ago I was on a flight and the guy next to me asked about my iPaq. I told him about it's mp3 &amp; movie playing capabities, GPS &amp; wifi with CF cards that I had in my backpack, consumer level infared with macro recording capablities for controlling all my household entertainment devices (as well as those at my moms and girlfriends), game playing and emulation capabilities, audio note taking abilities that I had just used it for, etc. etc.

He got out his tablet PC. He switched it to tablet mode. He had lost the pencil - and thus it no longer worked. A $2000 machine reduced to a door stop because the stupid thing needs a special magnetic pencil instead of a regular stylus.

If that is the future I'll stick with my 4 year old PDA.The thing about the cPC if it's ever released is that no special pen is needed. You can use your finger if you don't have a stylus available. This will probably be a $2000 device though. One thing I'll defintely miss when Dell pulls out of the PDA business is their pricing.

[Nurhisham Hussein]

From a post in another forum:

Dell are up to something as they're informed my workplace that a number of devices will be "ready to test" in the next couple of months.

This is from a very reliable source, who has seldom been wrong before. I don't think Dell is leaving the PDA market just yet, though they may be dropping standalone PDAs.

[Stik]

I don't think Dell is leaving the PDA market just yet, though they may be dropping standalone PDAs.

Or maybe not...

" Dell will continue to sell and support the Dell Axim X51v. The lack of new development of the Axim line is because there is no reason to introduce new models since the X51v is already well ahead of the competition. "

http://www.aximsite.com/boards/showpost.php?p=1063001&amp;postcount=1

Exciting, emotional thread however! :)

[dlopan]

I had a meeting with our dell rep last week and he confirmed that Axims are dead and buried.

[Stik]

I had a meeting with our dell rep last week and he confirmed that Axims are dead and buried.

Theres more at stake than the individual retail Dell user.

The users of these devices range from small business, State and local government to the healthcare field.

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/vanity/axim?c=us&amp;l=en&amp;s=gen

No transition to a new product this year may invite stability to the platform as any kinks get worked out for a better user experience for all parties involved. That includes a more stable enviroment for companies that bring the Axim 3rd party solutions. :idea:

JMO, I just may be in denial. :mrgreen:

If your Dell rep actually told you what you say, its again my opinion that this person should not be working at or for Dell. :bangin:

[Typhoon]

Has anyone heard of any new PDA to come out w/the advanced 3D NVidia or ATI GPUs?

[dlopan]

I'm not an individual Dell user. I buy a lot of machines (100's) from Dell every year so I get good intel from my Dell reps. Here is another one just to reaffirm what I read elsewhere, Dell is going to release a tablet soon. That kind of surprised me given what I was told the last time, that Dell would never have a tablet.

[Typhoon]

I'm not an individual Dell user. I buy a lot of machines (100's) from Dell every year so I get good intel from my Dell reps. Here is another one just to reaffirm what I read elsewhere, Dell is going to release a tablet soon. That kind of surprised me given what I was told the last time, that Dell would never have a tablet.

Are you saying that you were told that Dell will release a Tablet PC? Any idea when? I'm looking to buy a Tablet PC to replace my laptop. Any idea if it will be a convertible?

[dlopan]

The Dell rep told me 2 or 3 quarter. He didn't have any details, he said it maybe a d series compatible so the dock and battery would work.

[Typhoon]

The Dell rep told me 2 or 3 quarter. He didn't have any details, he said it maybe a d series compatible so the dock and battery would work.

I can't wait to see what they got...

[Stik]

I'm not an individual Dell user. I buy a lot of machines (100's) from Dell every year so I get good intel from my Dell reps.

By machines, do you mean Dell computers? Are the reps in computer sales biased against the mobile Axim devices for whatever reason?

I had a meeting with our dell rep last week and he confirmed that Axims are dead and buried.

I reitterate. If those are the words spoken by a Dell rep without higher authorization, that rep is doing a disservice to a segment of Dell's market and should be chastised, flogged and whipped for opening their piehole in such respect and manner.

Wouldn't care to give me your Dell rep's name would you? :mrgreen: