Bye-bye WM5 - glad to be back to PPC 2003 SE

[boyce]

I eagerly awaited the WM5 update for my iPaq 4700. I knew that there would be sacrifices (the loss of wireless synch and speed of operation) but overall I figured that this was the future and I wanted the latest operating system.

So I took the plunge and bought the new operation system as soon as it was available.

The first thing I noticed was the speed (even though I had PPC Tech upgrade my RAM from 64 to 128). When I synched with my computer I thought it had hung – eventually I realised that, no, it was just taking longer, much longer!

But I decided I could live with this, after all it was the latest OS and there were some nice improvements.

A week or so ago I read the survey about the spontaneous hard reset - glad I didn't have that problem! I spoke too soon; last Friday I became a victim of the spontaneous hard reset (just turned off the unit and turned it on a few minutes later).

I went looking for the restore program - but they had removed it in the latest version, presumably because the designers didn't think it needed it.

This was the final decider, I had to go back to PPC 2003 SE.

In all the years I have had a pocket computer (I started with a Psion then I graduated to a Journada etc.) I never once reverted back to an old OS until now.

Looking back the main issue I had was the slow response time. You would expect a new OS to run faster or at least the same speed as the previous, but never slower and significantly slower at that.

I'm glad to be back, even though it is an old OS, PPC 2003 SE has restored the responsiveness of my 4700, I had forgotten how responsive my 4700 was (the 4700 is [was] a great Pocket PC). It was a bummer restoring all my programs but it was worth it!

[stevenator65]

There were tons of people on Aximsite who tried wm5 on their x50 series Axims and had mega problems as well. Most of them fell back to wm2003se. Eventually, hopefully, MS will come out with wm5se and all will be well with the world.
Steve

[ppcinfo]

I upgraded my Axim x50v to WM5 when the upgrade was first made available, however, I had numerous problems and downgraded back to 2003 SE. The biggest complaint I had was the slowness of the system, most likely due to the persistent memory usage. I wonder if new WM5 devices will also have this same slowness in operation, or will the FlashROM that they use be faster than the x50v?

ppcinfo

[Pocketjumper]

My current Dell x51 works without a hitch with WM5, except for the rare hang, which occurs when I am trying to access my 1GB Kingston CF card. On the other hand, it means that I need a faster CF card. :roll:

[David_C]

I made the swtich back to SE last night, after I tried syncing my HP at work, came up with a guest account.

I miss the storage space, but for me, taking 20-25 seconds just to open Sudoku is a bit too long. With SE, 5 seconds and it is rdy to play :)

[Janak Parekh]

I'm sorry to hear you guys are having so much trouble. For what it's worth, unless you want one-handed use or softkey support, it's not critical to have WM5 at this time. I find WM5 particularly shines for phone edition devices first and foremost.

That said, from what it seems, all of the designed-and-shipped-with-WM5 devices seem to be a lot faster out of the box than the ROM upgrades. :? On the other hand, I've also heard rumors that upgraded WM5 devices run really slow at first but speed up once the flash compaction processes have run.

Either way, though, best of luck with your device. I do suggest that when-and-if you're in the market for a new one, don't necessarily be afraid that WM5 will make a new device unusable. In general, my 700w is slightly snappier than my last SE device (the Toshiba e805).

--janak

[jnev]

I had the same experiance with wm5 on my x50v. however, my x51v runs 99% perfectly on it (hangs up once in a while).

[Mister HP]

I recently upgraded my HP2415 from 2003se to WM5 with some unexpected surprises (i.e. no longer supports ability to transfer or install apps to SD or Compact Flash cards- have to squeeze em on your PPC before; secondly, no more hard reset capabilities (kind of a bad thing); and no ability to alter the RAM-slightly disappointing). Despite these small fall backs; however, i find that, being the avid user I am, WM5 has a greater capacity and does in fact speed up over the course of use. go figure :wink: Lets hope that Microsoft smarts up and offers an upgrade to fix these problems- or at least problems the handheld veteran finds a nuisance :lol:

[buzzard]

I recently upgraded my HP2415 from 2003se to WM5 with some unexpected surprises (i.e. no longer supports ability to transfer or install apps to SD or Compact Flash cards- have to squeeze em on your PPC before; secondly, no more hard reset capabilities (kind of a bad thing); and no ability to alter the RAM-slightly disappointing). Despite these small fall backs; however, i find that, being the avid user I am, WM5 has a greater capacity and does in fact speed up over the course of use. go figure :wink: Lets hope that Microsoft smarts up and offers an upgrade to fix these problems- or at least problems the handheld veteran finds a nuisance :lol:
Actually if you have an SD or CF card in your PPC it will ask you whether or not you want the program on the card or not. The question shows up on the PPC screen instead of on the PC screen with Activesync. A hard reset to a pre-Wm5 PPC is now called a clean reset on a Wm5 device. It takes the PPC back to its "out of the box" configuration. You press different buttons that you would for the old hard reset (sorry I can't remember which ones).

[Mister HP]

Actually if you have an SD or CF card in your PPC it will ask you whether or not you want the program on the card or not. The question shows up on the PPC screen instead of on the PC screen with Activesync. A hard reset to a pre-Wm5 PPC is now called a clean reset on a Wm5 device. It takes the PPC back to its "out of the box" configuration. You press different buttons that you would for the old hard reset (sorry I can't remember which ones).

I am well aware of the pop-up screen that appears when installing applications but the point I was trying to make is that first, ActiveSync has to transfer the .CAB file to one's Pocket PC. This is a nuisance if the application (or .CAB file) is rather large and one's storage is not :wink: I think that they (Microsoft) should have kept the ActiveSync option of choosing the location for the .CAB file and installation in order to give one more possibilities (such as using storage cards for that sole purpose). As for the clean reset, resetting to a previous version of Windows Mobile 2003se, etc. is not very convenient when one can re-flash one's Pocket PC essentially re-installing WM5. This works (I've had to try it :lol: ) but it is very inconvenient when one is on the road and the Pocket PC completely crashes. If one has a backup file (using 2003se or previous versions) one can simply hard reset and backup one's Pocket PC to previous settings. This; however, is not the case with WM5. If the Pocket PC freezes on the road where a computer is not accessible to re-flash the ROM, good luck :lol: I have heard; however, that there are some promising backup utilities coming out made specifically for Windows Mobile 5.

[Janak Parekh]

I am well aware of the pop-up screen that appears when installing applications but the point I was trying to make is that first, ActiveSync has to transfer the .CAB file to one's Pocket PC.
Hmm... I thought this was always the case -- that it would put it in \Windows\AppMgr\Install or wherever it is before installing it to main memory or storage card.

As for the clean reset, resetting to a previous version of Windows Mobile 2003se, etc. is not very convenient when one can re-flash one's Pocket PC essentially re-installing WM5.
I think you misunderstood the point: in WM5, a "clean reset" is the exact equivalent of a hard reset in WM2003SE. It does not revert the OS -- it simply wipes out the storage. There's no way to revert to 2003SE without reinstalling it from a desktop computer. I've done it on several devices without any problems whatsoever.

--janak

[Mister HP]

Well up until now I had no idea of a reset that does what a traditional hard reset does. Can you please share the way to conduct a clean reset- I found many times when such a possibility could have been very useful. Concerning the new ActiveSync and the installation of new applications, ActiveSync automatically transfers the .CAB file to one’s device limiting storage without the possibility of installing or transferring the .CAB file right to the external storage card. For example, if I want to install an encyclopedia of 100 MBs on my Pocket PC, it first has to transfer the .CAB file to the Pocket PC’s storage card before asking you whether or not you want to install it on the device or external storage card. Some programs have; however, been able to bypass this road block and ask whether or not the user wants to transfer the .CAB file to the storage card or device. If you go to ActiveSync => Tools => Add / Remove Programs…, you can see that the “Install program into the default installation folder” option is grayed out thus eliminating this option or at least limiting this option to the end user. If you know a way to change this option, I would be most happy if you could share.
Thanks

[Janak Parekh]

Well up until now I had no idea of a reset that does what a traditional hard reset does. Can you please share the way to conduct a clean reset- I found many times when such a possibility could have been very useful.
This may be of help (http://www.mobilitysite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28200).

Concerning the new ActiveSync and the installation of new applications, ActiveSync automatically transfers the .CAB file to one’s device limiting storage without the possibility of installing or transferring the .CAB file right to the external storage card.
I know; I thought WM2003SE did that too, even if it asked where you wanted it installed (i.e., it'd first copy to internal storage, and then install from there).

In any case -- the easiest workaround is to copy the CAB to your SD card without using ActiveSync Add/Remove Programs, and then tap on the CAB in File Explorer. That should do the trick. Note that an SD-to-SD install is slow in my experience (and may be why MS doesn't do it).

--janak

[Mister HP]

I know; I thought WM2003SE did that too, even if it asked where you wanted it installed (i.e., it'd first copy to internal storage, and then install from there).

In any case -- the easiest workaround is to copy the CAB to your SD card without using ActiveSync Add/Remove Programs, and then tap on the CAB in File Explorer. That should do the trick. Note that an SD-to-SD install is slow in my experience (and may be why MS doesn't do it).


Have tried that with apps that actually give you the .CAB file :lol: Too many developers just give a .EXE. By the way, is there a way to extract a .CAB from any .EXE? That would be great information. Maybe when you open up the .EXE and when it asks if you want to install it, click cancel and search for the .CAB in ActiveSync folders??

[lanwarrior]

WM5 have a HUGE bug in uninstalling applications. Check out my thread at http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=48040.

This has been discussed in numerous forums as well.

Basically, uninstalling application fails 99% of the time and I have to do manual clean up (folders and registry).

WM5 is a step back compared to PPC2003SE. Unfortunately, MS does not provide support on Windows CE OS.

I am looking to return to Symbian OS now.

[Nurhisham Hussein]

Maybe when you open up the .EXE and when it asks if you want to install it, click cancel and search for the .CAB in ActiveSync folders??

Close - just go ahead and install it without your PDA connected, and then look for the cabs.

[Patrick Y.]

Windows Mobile 5 runs well on most devices that's designed for WM5. Most problems come from the OEM, not Microsoft. Therefore, some problems/bugs on 4700/x50v upgrade don't exist on device such as x51v.

[Dave Beauvais]

I've tried to like WM5 on my hx4700. Really I have. The frustrating thing is that I can live with all the annoyances -- such as soft menus and the sluggishness of ActiveSync 4 -- except for one thing: the seemingly random flash ROM compaction routine that apparently just kicks in sometimes and runs for approximately 10-15 minutes. During this time, my PPC is so slow that it's basically unusable. A soft reset will "fix" it in the short term, but it'll eventually run again.

I wish it were something that could be scheduled to run once daily and wake the PPC up at, say, 3:00 in the morning, run until that routine is complete, then leave me alone throughout the day.

I've put up with this for a few weeks now and will be tolerating it for one more week until I have time next weekend to revert back to WM2003 SE and ActiveStink 3.8. It's really a shame to have to do this, but my PDA is a tool that I rely on daily, and the WM5 upgrade really sucks when I have to make someone wait while I fight with my PPC while entering data, an appointment, or whatever.

[emuelle1]

I just acquired a 4700, and I think I'll be sticking with 2003SE on it. My friend upgraded his Axim x50v to 2005, and seems to be impressed with the built in Power Point, but my 4700 came with Clearview Presentation so it looks like I can't use that as an excuse. I've heard that 2005 sucks up a lot of battery, and as impressed as I am with the battery life of my newer mode I don't think I want to screw with that. I'll wait for 2005SE to come out. Microsoft likes to screw up the first release and sort of get things right on the second.